First off: The hype is true. Kung Fu Panda is the best movie that Dreamworks Animation has made to date. After the utterly wretched, ugly, and pointless Shrek 3 and the competent but empty Bee Movie it's a true delight. One that I intend to see again in the theaters before this summer is through. Multiple times, if I can afford it.
The funniest bits were not given away in the ads. And they were screamingly funny.
The action scenes were a loving valentine to wuxia style martial arts fantasy without being a pastiche.
The character animation is done with obvious care and skill. The action is smooth and thrilling. The scenery and colors are often dazzling and lovely.
The characters themselves are far more fully-dimensional than any of the trailers hinted at. Po (Jack Black) Shifu (Dustin Hoffman) and Tai Lung (Ian McShane) all get moments that allow them to transcend being mere types and catch-phrases.
If I have a problem with the film, it's that they didn't seem to understand what the true moral is. The moral they have Po and his goose father (yeah, it's never explained) state more than once is: "If you call something special, that will make it special."
And yet...that's not the moral we were leading up to at all. Every emotion and action of the protagonist before this point was leading up to "Those things that you see as your weaknesses. Those failings that make you despair of ever succeeding at anything, just might be turned into strengths if you change your perceptions of them."
It's a lot wordier, I'll admit...but it better fits Po's transformation from bumbling, insecure fanboy to the Dragon Warrior.
Anyway, it's a fun movie. Certainly, it's far better than any movie called "Kung Fu Panda" has a right to be. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Was there a midnight showing for this?
I'll probably see it on Monday when the ticket prices are cheapest. My big three for the Summer are still WallE, Hancock, and The Happening, but this one is easily on my "to see" list. I'm glad it got such a glowing Puffy review. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Midnight showing at the local AMC theater for only five bucks. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Nice. I didn't even think about it or I might have gone. The only midnight show I've gone to this year was for Indy.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Alright, you convinced me. I was fully expecting it to suck.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
No, no, I'm totally with Puffy on this. The movie is great, filled with laughter and heart. I got to see it six weeks ago.... at a thing!
I've been telling everyboy: see it.
Good summer so far. (Well, I mean I haven't done the math, but I think we're over 50% so far.)
(Meaning, good films vs bad films, expressed as a percentage.) (I loved Speed Racer.)
Posted by Steev (Member # 6805) on :
I'm along with Puffy on it as well. It was a great movie.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Well, you lot have effectively changed my mind. I thought it looked a bit silly, but now I think I'm going to go see it anyway.
(Well, and I've already seen Iron Man four times...)
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I can't recommend purchasing it (at 45 dollars, it's only for rich, obsessed animation fans!) but The Art of Kung Fu Panda is well-worth a flip-through. In addition to some gorgeous development and production art, one can get a glimpse of material that didn't make the cut for this film. Some truly stunning, beautiful sets and epic battles that were dropped due to limitations in budget, time, and story. There are also well as answers to nagging character questions, such as why they never directly addressed that Po is obviously adopted, the history of the Valley of Peace, etc.
If Jeff K. decides to make this a franchise, I'm hoping some of this material gets used.
I'm also hoping Dreamworks does better with this potential series than they did with Shrek.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
I saw it this morning and felt like it was not well advertised, simply because I was expecting silly and frivolous, but got a rather serious little movie with frequent comic relief.
I took my teenager and kindergartener, and a really good girlfriend of mine met us there. We went and had lunch afterward and talked about the movie....that part was really fun because we all saw something slightly different in it. I saw how weakness can become a big strength and how the belief of teachers, mentors etc can be transformative. My son (he's 15) saw how each of us is unique and how really exploring that can help us see our purpose in life, and that seeking to be special through means outside ourself (ie. possessing lots of stuff, knowing something more than anyone else, etc.) is essentially missing the mark. I was a bit disappointed by.....*spoiler*
...how Tai Lung was not redeemed in the end. But my friend pointed out that sometimes, the bad guy doesn't choose to be redeemed. That they never 'get it' and change their ways. The other thing my friend saw was that in finding our purpose, what might otherwise be temptations (cookies) used to fill emptiness ceases to be so once we begin truly living our purpose.
I liked some of the main themes: the value of perserverance, being true to self, etc. But I have to admit that when the movie ended, I was a bit disappointed. I was looking forward to pure silliness and found myself impatient and irritated with being sold one thing and receiving another. In retrospect, I am very glad I saw it and think it was well worth seeing.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
What did your kindergartener think?
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I think there's a moment, jeni, where Tai Lung's eyes hint that he does regret, on some level. The moment Shifu admits that his pride played a major role in Tai's journey from innocent prodigy to cruel killer.
It's very brief, but it's there. The possibility that he could have been redeemed.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I'm thinking about taking Sophie, but she's still a month shy of being four. How scary are we talking?
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Hmmm. I'd say some of the fight scenes with Tai Lung -might- get too frightening for a 3-4 year old. They're about the level of the fight between Luke and Vader in The Empire Strikes Back, or...well...any of the battles in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Pretty intense.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
My (very recently) four yr old loved it, FWIW. Except he wanted more popcorn.
*spoiler* . . . . . . I'd say the moral is "There is no secret ingredient." Especially in conjunction with them seeing their own faces reflected in the scroll.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Tom, she didn't say much about it. She got kinda restless in the talkier parts of it. It wasn't scary to her, but this is a kid who got mad at us when we stopped her from watching 'Jaws'. She likes being scared. She loved Monster House.
I don't think I'd take a really young child largely because there are so many long sections where it's all talking, no action. In other words, boooring.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jim-Me: I'd say the moral is "There is no secret ingredient."
But, Po didn't learn Kung Fu by thinking he needed nothing but himself. It was Shifu and his combined efforts to turn his perceived weaknesses into strengths. He needed more than a positive attitude to find his special talents. So do a lot of people.
The film didn't give much support to it's alleged moral beyond the reflection on the scroll bit.
Posted by Steev (Member # 6805) on :
I went and saw it again on sunday. This movie is brilliant!
Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
*head asplodes from seeing such positive reviews of a movie called Kung Fu Panda, of all things, from the makers of Bee Movie
Posted by EmpSquared (Member # 10890) on :
quote:Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer: *head asplodes from seeing such positive reviews of a movie called Kung Fu Panda, of all things, from the makers of Bee Movie
Coming from someone who listed the Star Wars prequels as some of his favorite movies. Tsk.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
I just saw it tonight. I don't think it's one of the great movies of our time or anything- or that it's up to the level of any of Pixar's offerings- but it's very enjoyable and solid, the animation is well done, and all the performers are well-cast.
And I don't think I'd hesitate too much to take my five-year-old daughter to it. I think comparing the fights to Empire Strikes Back overstates it a little- there's no blood, no maiming, and not a whole lot of sense of real danger, by and large. Things mostly hurt only for comic effect. The worst you might say is that at a couple of moments it looks like a character might not get up after being on the losing end of a fight, but they always ultimately do, and usually not long after.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat:
quote:Originally posted by Jim-Me: I'd say the moral is "There is no secret ingredient."
But, Po didn't learn Kung Fu by thinking he needed nothing but himself. It was Shifu and his combined efforts to turn his perceived weaknesses into strengths. He needed more than a positive attitude to find his special talents. So do a lot of people.
The film didn't give much support to it's alleged moral beyond the reflection on the scroll bit.
"There is no secret ingredient" is different than "needs nothing but himself." There are still ingredients, and they still have to be combined, nurtured, developed, and cooked . He needed the persistence, the love for what he was doing, the practice, the diligence, the motivation, *AND* the belief in himself. All of those were found within him.
He also needed the wisdom, knowledge (two very different things), and belief of his Shifu (it's a title, not a name). Without them he could not have been the dragon warrior. He had no power over those, but they were brought to him. There's a wisdom to that which I haven't entirely figured out yet.
I thought the plot also did an excellent job of demonstrating why Tai Lung was not to have the scroll... he was looking for "the secret ingredient". For all his power, he never realized that true power comes from acceptance of himself. Tai Lung didn't want to be Tai Lung, he wanted to be the dragon warrior.. he never could have gotten the riddle.
The one thing the movie doesn't really show us is why Po *does* get it so easily, other than that he listened to his father, and realized what it meant that there was no secret ingredient.
Or... it may be simply that I haven't gotten it yet. What I'm realizing, the more I think about this movie is that it's a hell of a lot deeper than it seems, even when you get it on first viewing.
Posted by aragorn64 (Member # 4204) on :
I was a tad ticked by the moral. It seemed partly to emphasize the "everybody wins" social mentality. You really don't need to expend a huge amount of time or effort to get something, especially if it comes naturally to you. In fact, you'll likely be superior to those who actually work to achieve their potential! Added to the fact that the final battle felt like luck more than anything. You know, positive thinking can only get you so far...
Anyway, sorry. I know it wasn't as cut and dried as that. And I did like just about every other aspect and message of the movie. Easily the best Dreamworks movie to date!
Also, jeniwren, I was personally glad to not see Tai Lung redeemed. It just felt more...real, and a great change of pace from what we usually see.
All in all, besides a few gripes, I loved it. I took my little brother and sister, and didn't have really high hopes. But I was very pleasantly surprised. Plus, the scene where Tai Lung escapes from prison is probably the coolest action scene in any movie ever.
...okay, maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by aragorn64: You really don't need to expend a huge amount of time or effort to get something, especially if it comes naturally to you.
I didn't get that idea at all. Po works his tail off (figuratively).
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Saw it today and it was totally hysterical! I was laughing so hard at one point that I damn near choked to death.
I like some of the little moments, like when the souls were moaning after he broke the jar with the souls in it, and the invisible trident, and when the Mantis said to give him the whole bridge to hold he said "What was I thinking!?"
Totally hilarious movie. The morals in it were there if you wanted them, but I think it worked excellently as a comedy.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: The morals in it were there if you wanted them, but I think it worked excellently as a comedy.
Maybe the best thing about it-- it was not heavy handed or preachy at all...
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
I just want to add that the art in this movie is so beautiful you could enjoy watching it with the sound off. Nearly every frame is beautiful enough to hang in your house as a still. The animators clearly paid attention to background detail.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
I think the movie misportrayed the meaning of its moral... Po, Tai Lung, and Shifu all had issues with what it means to be worth something as a person. Po felt he was born as someone not special, and thus could never belong with the other great martial artists. Tai Lung felt he could only be satisfied if he had some secret ingredient that made him special, and greater than anyone else. And Shifu seem to think that through a lot of training and work, and with talent, one could earn the right to be special. I think the moral, as stated, is meant to say that all of these approaches are wrong; that being special is just a matter of perspective. Or in other words, all that any of the characters needed to find true self-worth was to see themselves as special. No additional ingredient is necessary. I think that is an accurate moral.
The problem is that the movie mixes up "being special" with "being able to defeat a kung fu master." You can become happy just by finding self-worth, but I don't think you can become a kung-fu master just by finding self-worth. The movie makes it seem like that's the case, even though it clearly is not.
Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
quote:Originally posted by EmpSquared:
quote:Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer: *head asplodes from seeing such positive reviews of a movie called Kung Fu Panda, of all things, from the makers of Bee Movie
Coming from someone who listed the Star Wars prequels as some of his favorite movies. Tsk.
*dies laughing
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I went and saw this yesterday. With only a few months of kung fu under my belt, I absolutely fell in love with Po. There was alot of heart and soul to the part that I was not expecting to see based on the previews.
But its funny cause later that evening, I sat down and watched "Rudy." Here's a movie where the protagonist faces repeated rejections but continues to fight. He doesn't become the star quarterback, but there are few movie endings that make me cry with joy like that one does.
Maybe that's the failing of modern Hollywood or films with an expected young audience. You can see the montages coming from a mile away and in the few days it takes Tai Lung to reach the temple, Po becomes capable of defeating a villain who dominated five life-long kung fu students.
You feel bad for the Furious Five in a way. On a slightly random note, I couldn't believe how under-utilized those characters were. Why even bother casting Seth Rogen and Jackie Chan (!!) if they're only going to get two or three lines?!? But atleast some subtle attention was paid to Tigress. There was a nice little hint that she could have followed in Tai Lung's footsteps had Shifu's heart not already been broken.
But anyway, back to being "special." It was really good to see a movie with so many variations on a positive message. Its something I could see kids re-watching and pulling different lessons from it as they age.
The only change I would make is having the Furious Five join with Po to defeat Tai Lung. It might have been alittle more believable than the "zero-to-hero" approach.
Posted by MEC (Member # 2968) on :
I caught a late showing last night as well. I really enjoyed this movie, especially the whole greatest kung-fu warrior hyperbole. "There is no charge for awesomeness, or attractiveness."
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
I agree about the five being underutilized - I really thought they should have had three instead of five (I haven't thought this idea through enough to have an opinion on which two should have been dumped) so they could give those three more development.
Other than that, the only complaint I had was that part of of the time I expected Shifu to say things like "Do, or do not. There is no try." and "Size matters not" and "Luminous beings are we"
And then part of the time I expected him to say things like "Only a Master of Evil" and "You can't win Tai Lung. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
TomDavidson, I took all three of my kids - they are almost 5, almost 3, and 1. It was a stupid move on my part because they were too restless and my wife and I didn't quite have enough hands and ingenuity to deal with them effectively for the entire 1.5 hours, but none of the kids got scared. The violence is constant but the results are cartoony - characters fall from hundreds of feet in the air and are merely dazed, or suffer bone-crunching blows and just shake them off. The physics are the same as those of Wile E. Coyote. Tai Lung is kind of scary in parts, but not terrible. Ian McShane has a very un-scary voice (and he was ill-cast) IMO.
I loved the movie and thought it easily matched some of Pixar's efforts. I laughed out loud multiple times - my favorite bit of comedy was when Tai Lung bites his own tail. And it was gorgeously animated.
Other spoilers and quibbles: My biggest complaint is that Po develops masterful kung fu in a few days. They should have had him play a role in defeating Tai Lung, but not alone, and definitely not by "fighting." It'd be better to have the Furious Five defeat him with some kind of assistance from Po - perhaps in the form of some insight (ala the moral), or some active fighting that only works as part of the team. As it is the movie tells kids "you can master anything quickly and easily as long as you believe you are special" which is completely false.
I also wasn't quite comfortable with the spiritual aspect of the turtle master guy's kung fu (prophecy, dissolving into the sky). Seemed out of place.
I too thought Jackie Chan and Seth Rogen were wasted here.
As I mentioned above, the physics are rather unrealistic. I felt like I needed to tell my 4 year old that size really does matter, and if he steps on a mantis, it will die. And that pinching a finger does not cause animals to explode. But I was busy dragging him to the van (did I mention it was dumb to take all those little kids to the movie?).
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
I took my kids (8, 6, 5, 2 and 13 months) Saturday.
They loved it.
I am ashamed to admit that they were really good for the movie; I don't consider sitting still and staring open-mouthed at a movie screen a virtue, and I don't know if this means I don't let them see shows enough, or if they're too used to watching DVDs (no cable/rabbit ears at my house, only Netflix).
I expected to not really enjoy it; I did really enjoy it.
I would have been nice if there had been more realism in how well a large, awkward novice would have trained in a short period of time.
And I would have liked more input from Jackie Chan, too.
BUT, it could always be worse....I am still flashing back to the last time I had to sit through a Care Bears movie with my kids. *shudder*
It's not ten out of ten, but it's good, reliable, eye-candy entertainment.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:I am ashamed to admit that they were really good for the movie; I don't consider sitting still and staring open-mouthed at a movie screen a virtue,
Context, it's all about context. In that context, they were admirable, IMO.
I've heard the argument that movies support sustained attention span and TV (with commercial interruptions) destroys it. Norman Mailer said it, I think. Sounds like your family is a data point in support of the argument.
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
Hee hee hee.
I'll remind myself of that the next time we're watching a DVD and I'm wiping the drool off their shirts.
I HAVE noticed that since we have gotten rid of tv/cable, and watch only selected dvds, that commercials have become almost nauseating to watch, because of the fast camera cuts and whatnot.
I've watched my kids watching commercials, the one time a month they're watching Cartoon Network at a friend's house, and it's like watching River Tam get hypnotized by evil anime commercials. (what was that ad for? Fruity Tasty Treats or something?)
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
I loved this movie. Laughed like a lunatic.
*spoilers* My very favorite moment was in the first 30 seconds during the "Bodacity" dream sequence.
"I see you like to chew. Perhaps you'd like to chew on....MY FIST!"
I laughed like an idiot, but then, I always do when something's funny.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
That's why you're The Cackler.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Narnia: I loved this movie. Laughed like a lunatic.
*spoilers* My very favorite moment was in the first 30 seconds during the "Bodacity" dream sequence.
"I see you like to chew. Perhaps you'd like to chew on....MY FIST!"
I laughed like an idiot, but then, I always do when something's funny.
Glad you liked it.
How are you? It's been several months since I saw a post from you.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
I'm good. Summer is finally here, I'm looking for a new job, and everything's ok for now. I'm slowly eeking my way back to the forums. Just a bit.
Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
Just saw the movie.
Dreamworks has redeemed itself.
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
Woah Woah Woah... Sashiko hee hee hee is my line!!!!! But I loved The movie, it was great! I think that po was able to learn kung fu so fast because he idolized the furious five he had kung fu dreams every night, he knew all about kung fu. and tai lung's fighting style was all about the pressure points and h couldn't hit the pressure points under po's fat.
My favorite part is when Po's father is showing him his ancestors and they are all cranes. Hee Hee Hee
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
a lot of the moral has to do, imo, with being okay with yourself even if you are really different from normal people in a stigmatizing way.
in the case of Po he's totally a fattie but he learns to like himself in spite of this fact.
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
Just saw this the other night and loved it.
The first few minutes of the movie were some of the most awesome minutes of animation ever.
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