A really hair-raising article published online in World Magazine warms about the many ways that Democratic presidential candidate, Sen. Barack Obama, is being promoted as a virtually messianic figure.
In his article, “Obama and the danger of a divinized ruler,” Gene Edward Veith notes statements by Obama himself that have a messianic tone, such as when he said his nomination has a cosmic significance that future generations would look back on. “This was the moment,” Obama is quoted as saying, “when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.” Campaign slogans and posters evoke Bibical concepts in reference to Obama: “Believe.” And “Faith. Hope. Change. Obama for President.”
Beyond mere excessive rhetoric, there are many Americans who seem to be extolling him as savior. Catholic blogger Christopher Blosser started a website, “Is Barack Obama the Messiah?” ( www.obamamessiah.blogspot.com ) which tracks this kind of thing, such as the way media photographs of Obama portray the candidate bathed in heavenly light or adorned with halos. Here are a couple of excerpts directly from Veith’s article: “Says U.S. Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., D-Ill., the son of the civil-rights activist, of Obama's pending nomination: ‘The event itself is so extraordinary that another chapter could be added to the Bible to chronicle its significance.’ Movie director Spike Lee goes further. After the presidential election, ‘You'll have to measure time by “Before Obama” and “After Obama."’ Lee added, ‘Everything's going to be affected by this seismic change in the universe.’"
"’A black man with a white mother became a savior to us,’ proclaimed Louis Farrakhan of the Nation of Islam.”
Mark Mortford of the San Francisco Chronicle enters into spiritualistic realms when he says, as quoted in Veith’s article: "Barack Obama isn't really one of us.” He is in fact "a Lightworker, that rare kind of attuned being who has the ability to lead us not merely to new foreign policies or health care plans or whatnot, but who can actually help usher in a new way of being on the planet, of relating and connecting and engaging with this bizarre earthly experiment. These kinds of people actually help us evolve."
Veith notes that at Obama rallies, something like a religious fervor often seems to cause some people to pass out, as if they are “being slain in the spirit” as Pentecostals would call it.
Some people on the political left are critical of the fact that Gov. Sarah Palin is religious. But is it healthy to embrace spiritualistic notions about Obama's candidacy?
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I think that, for many of us, the fervor is less a reflection of Senator Obama in particular than an expression of how desperately we want to save our country from the direction in which it is headed.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
The ad for me is for VampireFreaks.com.
I'm considering writing a story in which one of the characters is able to tell the future by what internet advertisements pop up on a client's computer.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
So does this mean you will vote for him? I mean, since the "evidence" you have provided seems to support your premise...
Oh wait, despite all this "evidence" (which you will note are really just different people's opinions or unsupported assertions) you will still find a reason to not vote for him. Probably thanks to one of those "Obama is a secret Muslim" emails (wait, I'm sure you'll trot out his misspeak from the last couple of days, claiming he isn't "secret" about anymore) or the "Is Obama the Anti-Christ?" McCain web ad that used a lot of talking points and imagery familiar to "Left Behind" fans.
No one cares about Palin's religion, no matter how much the right-wing echo chamber screams it. They care about how she might apply some of her beliefs to the nation-at-large.
-Bok
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Scott, how about a malevolent intelligence develops that directs certain ads in order to control users behavior, and therefore help support the intelligence's existence.
-Bok
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Been done.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Bokonon, Veith's article also points out how totalitarian states are often characterized by the divinization of a political leader, as in North Korea. His opinion is that this is a very dangerous direction for Obama's campaign to take, and it absolutely is not all right to speak of a political candidate in such blatantly religious and spiritualistic terms. Add another chapter to the Bible devoted to Obama's candidacy? Change the calendar to "Before Obama" and "After Obama"?
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
Yes Ron, Obama is a Muslim who disrespects his own pastor for no reason while slapping down all women with his own personal messianic cult and Brittney styled glamor celebrity that covers the fact that he is the Anti-Christ.
Yes sir. The only thing we can do is not vote for him.
Excuse me as I go to he political threads where issues and actual facts are discussed, not this slime.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Darth, are you claiming that Veith is making these things up?
By the way, I would not say Obama distanced himself from his own pastor "for no reason." He had plently of reason to throw Rev. Wright under the bus. The only question to most people is why he didn't do so sooner.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
Scott, I would totally read that story. The plot sort of reminds me of Understand by Ted Chiang. (Sidenote: when I was little I used to pretend that I had the ability to gain deep insight into the world from mundane things, like the texture of brick walls. I've always been fascinated by that sort of thing since.)
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
His conclusion is based on cherry picked facts that are overwhelmingly offset by those facts ignored.
So yes, he's making things up.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: I think that, for many of us, the fervor is less a reflection of Senator Obama in particular than an expression of how desperately we want to save our country from the direction in which it is headed.
For some reason, this seems very hollow for me.
I was attracted to Obama campaign because of the man himself-- his character, his way of speaking, etc.
The excitement over the Democratic nomination has little to do (IMO) with the philosophical disagreement between the GOP and the Dems. People are excited about Obama in a way that they simply weren't able to muster for Hilary, Kerry, and Gore.
It's not just that the Dems, as a platform, offer a different direction from the past eight years of policy-- good gravy, no. I can't agree with that at all.
It IS Obama.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Jhai--I've read of obssessive-compulsive types who were like that. I hope you are not hypnotized by the grain in wood.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
For my part, I think the fact that Ron posted this on Ornery twice means that we should be able to ignore it here. Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Oops.
It's been corrected. Unfortunately, when I deleted one of them, it took down with it a reply by Kevin. The alternative was to delete the other thread, which would have taken down Tom's reply--which of course I would not dare to do.
[ September 09, 2008, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: The ad for me is for VampireFreaks.com.
It's GothScene.com for me--a one stop shop for all my Goth dating needs. Unfortuantely, I only really go for the Thervingi, and I'm pretty sure that that site doesn't differentiate.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Bokonon, Veith's article also points out how totalitarian states are often characterized by the divinization of a political leader, as in North Korea. His opinion is that this is a very dangerous direction for Obama's campaign to take, and it absolutely is not all right to speak of a political candidate in such blatantly religious and spiritualistic terms. Add another chapter to the Bible devoted to Obama's candidacy? Change the calendar to "Before Obama" and "After Obama"?
Sort of like how Bush has said he believes he was chosen by God to lead us in these trying times? And you ignore that all the people you quote aren't part of the Obama campaign, they are just giving their opinions.
Or should I be able to find a racist somewhere that has said he supports McCain because he thinks such an administration would push back civil rights to the Jim Crow (sp) law days, can I then say it's "a very dangerous direction for McCain's campaign to take"?
Scott: But this is a passive aggressive intelligence!
-Bok
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
My ad's for "Mother Earth and the Silent Force," a new CD by "Mythic Temptation."
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Aw. Now it's changed to an ad for MoveOn.org.
I'm sad. Although, there's a kind of poetry in it.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Just to clarify, Ron, does this mean that you are firmly opposed to the work of the partisan Alliance Defense Fund, which is recruiting clergymen to speak against Obama from the pulpit?
Ayn Rand and Terry Goodkind want to teach your children to worship mammon.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Jhai--I've read of obssessive-compulsive types who were like that. I hope you are not hypnotized by the grain in wood.
I only allow my OCD tendencies to come out when I'm playing Oblivion. No godspoken hand washing for me!
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Now it's back to vampire freaks!
I don't think it's scientific. I'm going to treat it like it's the new I Ching.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Even better, what if you wrote a story about how web ads were somehow a fortune cookie, somehow predicting an event in the user's life, that is only obvious after the fact!
Like a nerdier Tru Calling!
-Bok
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Tom, I favor the law or IRS rule which prohibits churches from pushing political candidates from the pulpit or otherwise speaking directly about politics, on pain of losing their tax exempt status, and having to pay tax on what they collect in their offering plates. I wish it were enforced consistently in certain urban black churches, which have been notorious for violating this.
There is currently an effort being made to challenge the law/IRS rule on behalf of said churches. Democrats are probably behind it, because they think they "own" the black urban churches.
[ September 09, 2008, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Scott R, sorry to break it to you, but Ayn Rand is dead. She was allegedly killed by one of her followers who thought she had her gold with her.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Whether individuals attribute some sort of Messianic fame to Obama is their INDIVIDUAL business and opinions that doesn't actually IMPLY anything.
Have you ever seen "Hitler Rise of Evil"? Stalin got to power in what was already a dictatorship, he simply outmaneuvered his old comrades t get there, Kim Il Sung was appointed by Stalin to rule as the USSR's puppet, Kim Jung-il was simply his son, they're Cult of Personalities developed after the fact that prior, there's no correlation between them.
The closest example is Hitler's Rise but any objective analysis of the situation would show that any assertion of Obama being the next Hitler just like similar assertions about GWB are complete crap.
People are woozy about Sarah Palin because she wants to apply her faith based beliefs to the American public at large, we don't give to whits that she's religious.
No one is EMBRACING some spiritual connuctations about Obama, its just something a minority of people attribute to him the majority see him as being the better candidate who offers something of substance.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
The add says I should Fool Someone With A Hilarious Prank Call.
I wonder what it means...
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
The ad at the bottom of my screen reads.
"The Dark History of The Church: 7 Gread Myths of Organized Religion. The Critical Fault Line that separates genuine spirtituality from empty religious dogma.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Scott, for a lot of people, I'm sure it is about Sen. Obama in particular. For some of us, though, it is about policy and issues. I like Sen. Obama. I think he is an exciting candidate and a good man and will, God willing, make a great president. The sense of urgency I feel about his candidacy, though, is precisely about taking the country out of the hands of the party who has...well you don't need me to recite that litany.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
I have "Learn Biblical Hebrew Online."
Posted by Artemisia Tridentata (Member # 8746) on :
On my add, MoveOn.org is offering to give away 1 million Obama buttens this week. I wonder if I could just trade in one of my old Richardson ones?
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
I've got "Obama Barack Ringtones" here. But I'm afraid if I had one of him speaking, everyone and their brother would be trying to either kill me(as my hometown is EXTREMELY conservative) or molest me to get my phone and thus, to Barack Obama.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yipes.
This you have a problem with, but Bush and Palin talking about how the war against terror is God's will is okay?
Apparently being a unifying figure in a time of great national friction is a big no-no, but advocating a 21st century Christian crusade is top notch stuff!
Seriously though, is the charge here that Obama is trying to position himself as this figure, or that people are doing it by themselves? He's using a lot of large language (lofty rhetoric), but compared to the overtly religions overtones that run through Republican presidential rhetoric, he barely registers on the scale.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I was about to say Ron and I agreed something....then I saw he targeted his comments against black Dem churches.
Completely ignoring the daily Rep examples of the past 8 years.
:::sighs:::
I should have know better.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Maybe one CAN influence the oracle like properties of the google ads, we must test this.
video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games video games
Let's see if that does anything.
edit: Preliminary tests indicate no.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Solar Energy Charity: Help End Poverty Through the Use of Solar Energy!
---
I have a lavender bush in my front yard.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
I really need to find a girlfriend.
(I don't, but I'm testing my ability to influence the ad.)
Edit: no luck either.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
*cough* molehill Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Bokonon, Veith's article also points out how totalitarian states are often characterized by the divinization of a political leader, as in North Korea.
Obama = Kim Jong Il
Oh snap, I sure ain't voting for him now. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Maybe if two of us concentrated together;
Final Fantasy XII Video games Bioware Commmand and Conquer
Final Fantasy XII Video games Bioware Commmand and Conquer
Final Fantasy XII Video games Bioware Commmand and Conquer Final Fantasy XII Video games Bioware Commmand and Conquer
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Tom, I favor the law or IRS rule which prohibits churches from pushing political candidates from the pulpit or otherwise speaking directly about politics, on pain of losing their tax exempt status,
Wait so you're against the churches wanting to know a canidates political opinion?
Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
I still get the "MoveOn is giving away 1 million obama buttons this week."
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I'm getting a "sodahead.com" ad for "Who's more likely to cheat: Obama or McCain? vote now"
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: I'm getting a "sodahead.com" ad for "Who's more likely to cheat: Obama or McCain? vote now"
On what? Games? Their wives? America?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
No clue. Now it's "Obama Barack Ringtones: download to your mobile phone instantly!" from ttunes.net.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
<controversial comment>
How do you think religions get started?
</controversial comment>
My advertisement is of a superhero-Obama, ripping open a shirt to reveal an 'O'. "Buy the t-shirt!" the advertisement says. I think I win the 'most appropriate for the topic' award.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jhai: Scott, I would totally read that story. The plot sort of reminds me of Understand by Ted Chiang. (Sidenote: when I was little I used to pretend that I had the ability to gain deep insight into the world from mundane things, like the texture of brick walls. I've always been fascinated by that sort of thing since.)
I always thought I was the only one who did that! I also rearrange numbers and letters to make meanings and symbols out of them, almost subconsciously at this point.
My ad is for MoveOn.org as well.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Teshi: <controversial comment>
How do you think religions get started?
</controversial comment>
My advertisement is of a superhero-Obama, ripping open a shirt to reveal an 'O'. "Buy the t-shirt!" the advertisement says. I think I win the 'most appropriate for the topic' award.
Hm. I'm not sure which Big O joke to go with.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: By the way, I would not say Obama distanced himself from his own pastor "for no reason." He had plently of reason to throw Rev. Wright under the bus. The only question to most people is why he didn't do so sooner.
Do you realize you are only making yourself appear to be slow and rather dimwitted? That is certainly not the "only question to most people." Obama gave an entire speech dealing with race, and dealing with Wright, and if you'd read it, you'd understand how insightful he was, how he threw no one "under the bus," and why he waited to address the words of another person only until they were assigned to him vicariously.
The fact that Wright gave speeches full of invective and race hate, of fear mongering, employing the weapon of racism that he claimed to be opposing, is not Obama's responsibility. Obama did a very fine job of expressing the folly in Wright's words, and following through on his own philosophy, he very carefully showed why he doesn't condemn Wright as a person, for all that he has experienced and done in his life. The fact that you could forgive, and see the immense power in racial politics and defuse it by not engaging in it, was the cornerstone of Obama's speech. Of course, you obviously didn't read that, or you ignored it, and instead took the words and interpretations and opinions of others as your "facts."
Part of Obama's overall philosophy, which has been reflected in much of what he has said and done in his political career, is that wantonly invoking the politics of race, of religion, or of any power outside the individual to change society is useless. It goes against the very grain of Palin's "God wants us to have an oil pipeline," or "Goddamn America for treating people as less than human," which was what Wright said; the idea that we as human beings, and as productive members of our society, should look to God and invoke God where the use of our hands and our minds is required to get what we want. Obama recognizes the danger in that kind of politics, turning the power of wishful thinking, and historical conflict towards our political goals, and confusing the two, and calling that righteous.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Maybe if two of us concentrated together;
Final Fantasy XII Video games Bioware Commmand and Conquer
Final Fantasy XII Video games Bioware Commmand and Conquer
Final Fantasy XII Video games Bioware Commmand and Conquer Final Fantasy XII Video games Bioware Commmand and Conquer
Keep that up and soon we'll be getting ads for The Holy Church of Gaming.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Oh Oh the ad on page two is for some sort of video game, it must be working! Apparently it's a "Perfect World" why haven't I signed up already!?
I wonder what other direction we can take this thing.
Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation Global Food Crisis, Poverty, Starvation.
Now to sit back and watch the bat computer do its' work.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
Great, now we're going to have a church full of STARVING video gamers. Thanks, BB.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Kwea, many of the black churches in Detroit are notorious for their outspokenness on political topics and even promoting candidates. It is a group of black churches that announced they were going to challenge the IRS on this issue.
Orinoco, you are in a very small minority in your view that Obama did not sacrifice Wright. Your attempt to put a positive spin on Wright's invective and race-baiting (claiming, for instance, that whites invented the AIDS virus to commit genocide against the black race), is too intellectually bankrupt to comment on further.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
No, Ron, I don't want to put a "positive spin" on Wright's lectures. Unlike you, I've listened to them, and I found them deeply appalling. Why have you misread me so greatly?
For the record, and Obama publicly agrees on this point, I find Wright's use of racial tension and the specter of racism to garner power and evoke emotional displays to be horrifying. His opinions on the history of racism are surprisingly insightful (he correctly identifies, in my opinion, the sources of racism) however his use of current racial tension, and his various other claims about the government are far beyond the pale.
Ron, even this issue is not wholly 'black and white." I can read a speech by Wright and see that he has himself done the research and reading that I have done, and probably more, but I can disagree with the conclusions he draws from that reading, and I DO. I'm frankly appalled that you read my contribution as sanitizing Wright; that is not my intention, Wright is a Bogeyman of slavery-past, and people like him are bad for the country.
Edit: You would notice, for instance, in Wright's speeches that he identifies the colonial and imperial cycles of the western powers, their growing needs for cultural and economic hegemony over the less powerful, as the source and fuel for racism and slavery. This is correct, in my opinion- the over extension of western culture in the colonial period led to such a massive moral decline. Wright correctly identifies the phenomenon, but then attributes it to a corruption stemming primarily from the government which I don't believe is the case. If he had read De Tocqueville, for instance, which I believe he probably did anyway, he would see that the moral decline sponsored and allowed by the government was carried out at the hands of individuals who had a some point failed to understand the true needs of their society, beyond material wealth and power. That's a cyclical problem- it involves people AND the government, and today racism and race-hate is the responsibility of all communities, black and white. Wright doesn't want to believe that, and he blames the government for all ills, which is just plain stupid. I think he does it because he loves the power and glory his worldview assigns him and people like him personally, and I find that to be morally and ethically repugnant.
I try to understand why people arrive at these conclusions- what motivates them and drives them, and where they go wrong. What are you doing?
[ September 10, 2008, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
quote:What are you doing?
He's doing what Lamberts do best. Thinking with his gut.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Everyone knows the gut is more reliable then the brain! There are MORE nerve endings in the gut then there is in the human brain.
I should know my gut told me so.
Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
Hmmm. My ad is for a Perfect World International
FREE to Play. Click here to enter a perfect world.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
One reasons with their nerve synapses not their nerve endings.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tinros: Great, now we're going to have a church full of STARVING video gamers. Thanks, BB.
Hey, just order them each a $5 pizza from Little C's on a daily basis and problem solved.
[ September 11, 2008, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
...The average gamer I know could eat about five of those things. At least judging by the amount of food we go through when we play D&D.
Posted by Luet13 (Member # 9274) on :
"O, bama, hey bama, bama, bama-ho, bama-hey, bama-ho, baaaa-maaaaa! Hey B-C, B-C, won't you fight for me? Bama-ho, bama-hey Superstar?!"
First thing that came to my mind when I saw the thread title. Closely followed by Barack Muad'Dib.
I need sleep. Buenas noches.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Destineer:
quote:What are you doing?
He's doing what Lamberts do best. Thinking with his gut.
:Snort:
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
People often use themselves as a criterion for judging others. Let me recommend to some of you that you try Immodium or Pepto-Bismal. Maybe Gas-X would be helpful, too. The condition from which you suffer might be called fatuous flatulence. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Kwea, many of the black churches in Detroit are notorious for their outspokenness on political topics and even promoting candidates. It is a group of black churches that announced they were going to challenge the IRS on this issue.
Orinoco, you are in a very small minority in your view that Obama did not sacrifice Wright. Your attempt to put a positive spin on Wright's invective and race-baiting (claiming, for instance, that whites invented the AIDS virus to commit genocide against the black race), is too intellectually bankrupt to comment on further.
I am from Detriot, and am familiar with teh history of this issue.
Notice I didn't say you were completely worng. Just that once again you are cherry picking your examples, completely ignoring the constant pressure from religious figures speaking in favor or Republican's.....even to the point of threatening to refuse politicians sacraments and threatening democratic parishioners with damnation.
The right has been FAR more active than the left with regards to intermingling religion and politics in the past 20-30 years.
Not that I expected you to bring that up. Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Well sure, most religious people feel that the Democrats too often disregard religious concerns, principles and standards. Religion informs our conscience, our concept of right and wrong, good and evil.
The point is that the right generally intermingles religion and politics in a different way than does the political left. The left tends to be more superficial and inconsistent in its use of religion and religious symbolism.
Catholics, because of what their church officially teaches, have every right to refuse the sacraments to someone who approves of or tolerates abortion, especially the supreme abomination of partial-birth abortions. They have to defend the very identity of their church.
Posted by just_me (Member # 3302) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: People often use themselves as a criterion for judging others. Let me recommend to some of you that you try Immodium or Pepto-Bismal. Maybe Gas-X would be helpful, too. The condition from which you suffer might be called fatuous flatulence.
re ^^: People often use themselves as a criterion for judging others...
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
As an old C programmer, I have always disliked recursive logic. It can be fun to set up, but a bear to debug.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I'm pretty sure you've always disliked logic in general, Ron. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
if you don't use recursion how you gonna do permutations? Heck, isn't anything involving stacks recursion?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Blayne: anything that can be formulated recursively can be formulated without recursion (I mean that completely; this has been proven).
Of course, sometimes that non-recursive formulation is very convoluted. Not as much as you might think, though. For instance, doing permutations recursively is a quick way to blow out your stack, but isn't too bad to do without recursion.
There are plenty of algorithms that use a stack that are not recursive. Recursion does often involve pushing things onto a stack.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Well sure, most religious people feel that the Democrats too often disregard religious concerns, principles and standards. Religion informs our conscience, our concept of right and wrong, good and evil.
The point is that the right generally intermingles religion and politics in a different way than does the political left. The left tends to be more superficial and inconsistent in its use of religion and religious symbolism.
*snort*
Yeah right. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you believe that that's true.
Personally, my opinion is that both sides are and can be fairly religious, but that the Right has no problem with forcing their religion on everyone else, or with exploiting religion for personal gain, whereas the Left is hesitant to use religious imagery, language and doctrine for fear of alienating people.
I mean, so long as we're speaking in broad stereotypes...
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Blayne, actually I have done some machine-language programming (short routines), where you always deal with the stack. Doesn't seem particularly recursive to me.
fugu13, I don't mind using recursion in nested loops in C programs, if it is an elegant way of accomplishing your programming objective. I usually have a sense of there being half a dozen ways of accomplishing anything, and I usually preferred the most elegant solution--which to me meant the shortest coding and that ran the fastest. Of course, now that computer speeds have gotten so high, run speed is not so much of a factor any more. It mattered more on my old Atari 800XL.
Posted by Saephon (Member # 9623) on :
Just for those who haven't had the pleasure of seeing the ad Teshi mentioned Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
How often are you guys seeing the NewsMax "IS OBAMA ALREADY DEAD AND ON FIRE????? VOT HEAR NAOW" ads?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I have seen the "Is Obama Bad for America" ad, which is... interesting.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I want to see an "Obama? In my executives? It's more likely than you think. Click here for a free whitehouse check."
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
"I want to see an "Obama? In my executives? It's more likely than you think. Click here for a free whitehouse check."
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)