This topic could serve two purposes. I would love to talk about classics and history in Doctor Who, starting, of course, with the Pompeii episode.
But the real reason I started this is I have been tasked to come up with a better name for a panel at a conference that will discuss the above topic. Right now it is "Classics and History." Surely there is a better one out there than that.
Some possibilities: A Modern Odysseus Medicus Quis
...okay, that's all I've got off the top of my head. Any other ideas? Winner gets a cookie. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I like "A Modern Odysseus." A LOT. I'll see if I can come up with something better than that... Let me think on it some. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I'm still waiting on the episode where he meets and "upsets" the Queen Elizabeth.
I say call it a "A Time traveler's Guide to Shakespeare"
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Oh, are you only focusing on The New Who or are you including the classic too? Just out of curiosity. Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Classic is included, but I don't know anything about Classic Who, so I'm stymied by the lack of background there. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Ah. (I grew up on Fourth Doctor reruns on PBS. Gotta say I like the new Who way better!)
You can watch some of the classic episodes on Netflix via Watch Instantly, and Wikipedia has very good overviews of the character of each of the Doctors and important adventures.
If you ever want to waste three days.
In any case, by "classics" do you mean Classics as in Greek and Latin, or classics as in classic literature? It would help me get a better handle on where to go with this if I was sure-- I assume the first but not quite sure.
I just totally laughed out loud because as I was typing this I looked up at the Backyardigans and they're all in Ancient Greek dress. Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
The Doctoriad
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: Ah. (I grew up on Fourth Doctor reruns on PBS. Gotta say I like the new Who way better!)
Same. I loved Doctor Who when I was a kid. I started watching with the Fourth Doctor, and saw all of the Fifth Doctor (my favorite of the classic Doctors). I've seen a bunch of reruns of the first three (Third Doctor, mostly). I missed all of the Sixth, Seventh and Eight Doctors (except for the ep where the Fifth becomes the Sixth).
But after watching the last finale, I went and got a copy of Genesis of the Daleks (because of Davros and Sarah Jane), and it was just... so slow. I know that things were slower paced back then. I mean, OSC even talks about that phenomenon in a recent column. But I couldn't get through the whole story. And that was a shame.
After recommendations from Jatraqueros, I watched all four seasons of the new Doctor Who, both seasons of Torchwood, and The Sarah Jane Adventures. SJA is a bit light, but still fun. Torchwood is amazing. But Doctor Who is still the most magical. I hope they keep it going.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kama: The Doctoriad
The Whomarillion
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Okay, let me first say that I think you should keep "Classics and History in Doctor Who" as a subtitle to whatever you choose. And I still like "A Modern Odysseus."
That said, how about "Janus in TARDIS?" I think that an association with Janus could be made quite readily, given Janus' association with doors and portals, openings and closings, the gates of war, and the fact, of course, that Janus had two faces...
If you don't like Janus, you could use Mercurius, but I think Mercury is more associated with war or messenger duty than travel nowadays. And I just like the idea of associating Janus with the Doctor. Also there's the fact that most of Mercury's attributes were clearly adopted from Hermes, while Janus is of rather obscure origin... It seems apt to me but then, I may just be nuts.
(If you don't like it that's fine but please don't mock me too much, it took me like four hours to come up with that!)
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
The Tardissey!
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(Okay, I'm thinking my little joke about the TARDIS and Latin tenses is not making as much sense now as it did... maybe if you put "peragrat" on the end. "Janus in TARDIS Peragrat: Classics and History in Doctor Who." Is peragro even the right verb? It's been a long time since I tried to read Latin, much less write... Not sure how well I'm remembering my verbage... I think maybe I should go to sleep now.)
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
If the topic is Classics and History in Doctor Who, here are some ideas I would like to discuss:
"The Darkness and the Tardis: Heroics in Time and Literature"
"The Importance of Earth's History to Dr Who"
"Apocalypse Then: Saving the Earth from History."
"Reductio ad Absurdum in Time Travel: Dr. Who and the History that Never Happened"
To be honest, I have no idea what you are talking about. Is this a panel, a school paper, or a symposium? Is this the main subject or the topic in a larger topic? Knowing that might be easier to comprehend a better title.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It is a discussion panel at an academic conference focusing on Doctor Who. This panel will talk about how classical history and its accouterments is addressed, used, and discussed in Doctor Who, but new and old.
The topics have been decided and the call for papers is closed, but now we are naming the panel.
Those are good suggestions, KQ. I'm getting the abstracts soon, so maybe that will spark something.
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
Douglas Adams wrote a Dr. Who episode starring the 4th doctor (with Romanno in a "School Girl" outfit that just about made my puberty). In it Dr. Who discovers an original Shakespear Folio, reads Hamlet's "To Be" monologue and offers some grammatical advice.
I just can't remember the name of that episode, but I am sure 20 or 40 others will quickly chime in with it.
That episode deals with classics, both ancient (Shakespeare and Leonardo)and modern--Douglas Adams (who reused much of the plot for "Dirk Gentry's Holistic Detective Agency").
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Sadly, Shakespeare and Leonardo don't count as ancient history. According to the generally accepted models, ancient history stops at about 400 A.D. Shakespeare is practically modern day. He spoke English!
Any suggestions for a title dealing with Greek and Roman stuff?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Dan, you're thinking of City of Death. It's probably my single favorite classic Doctor Who episode.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I like the Odysseus angle, but I'm not sure that it completely fits. He's like Odysseus in that his intellect is his primary tool and weapon, and in that he's on this long journey, filled with unexpected twists, turns, and detours. The thing is, there's no home for him to be trying to reach. There's no Ithaca, and no Penelope. What motivates the two characters is fundamentally different.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I agree - the mode and character fit, but the motivation doesn't.
I can't think of a character's motivation from mythology that would - part of the joy of the Doctor is that he ISN'T searching for something. He isn't Sam Beckett just trying to jump home. He's home. He's lonely, but he's already home in the TARDIS in the "same old life" as "last of the Time Lords."
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Hmmm, if you think about the original series, he wasn't the last yet, though. Just the only one we ever saw. His home was still around but he was outcast, he dared to come and help humans... Promethius? Bringing enlightenment instead of fire?
I don't know, there's got to be some character that kind of fits his motivation BEFORE the new series.
The Time War changed things, though. I've got to say I think that's why the new series is so much better, the character has a darker, deeper background...
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(Okay, I take that back, early in the series we saw a Time Lady, too, and a few times we saw others. The only one we USUALLY saw.)
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Yeah, the last of the Time Lords bit is a new thing.
The not-searching-for-a-destination bit is old, though. He was sometimes running from something, but I don't think he was ever running towards something permanent. He's not even Peter Pan, because Peter Pan was a child of Neverland and just replayed the same adventures over and over again. The key to Peter Pan is that Peter forgot - he never grew up because he didn't remember anything. He's the most jovial amnesiac ever.
That isn't the Doctor either. Not that if it were, it would be relevant for the panel, but still. It does make him more of a puzzle.
Is there another character that travels for the heck of it and is both thrilled with the life and doesn't see or want an end to it?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
The Doctor.
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
Doctor as Gilgamesh? Long quest in search of immortality? No, the Doctor is against immortality.
Doctor as Gawain? The traveling knight always looking for foes to defeat.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Gawain might fit in some ways, but it is much too late in the time line. And Gawain's a brute. The Doctor is sometimes a brute, but it isn't his primary characteristic.
Hmm...
[ September 17, 2008, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
Knight Errant is the idea I couldn't find the workd for. (see, I consider Chaucer as Classical, but I understand that you are looking for something Greek or Roman)
Under Greek, perhaps Theseus. He wandered much before becoming King, and much after being king as well.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
But with a goal - save the Athenians, ditch the girl, please the gods...
It makes sense that all the other wanderers want something, because that drives the story. The Doctor also wants something, but what he wants is what he's getting in the journey. He's the ultimate "It's the journey, not the destination" philosopher.
Ah well, this is clarifying part of why the Doctor is so darn cool.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
The probable topics of the panel are the treatment of history in general in Doctor Who, Roman History in Doctor Who, both the old episode and the Pompeii episode in the new one, and the treatment of Greek history in Torchwood. Just in case that sparked anything someone didn't mind sharing. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I would totally go to that panel. Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: the treatment of Greek history in Torchwood.
I know that ship has sailed, but "Wholysses". Naw, it doesn't look good at all. Sounds funny, though.
I'm trying to think if there is anyone more suitably picaresque in the classics. If picaresque is the right word. The thing about classics is that anything that had no point tended to be forgotten after a certain amount of time.
Prometheus is a good insofar as he brought fire (The Doctor caused the burning of two great civilizations), regenerates, and suffers quite a bit. I don't know that "David Tennant Bound" would bring in the right audience, though. And "The Doctor Bound" is just all wrong.
P.S. Forgive me if this is a bit tangential, but I was thinking last week about why the Doctor is always saving the world. I think it's because if he started to rescue kittens from trees, he'd always have to run about doing that, like Superman. I guess if you're going to risk messing up the timeline, you have to be sure it's going to pay off. Maybe that's what made him the only one who could do the job - if I'm understanding the final episodes of the third season correctly.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I'm also thinking that this is more about history than mythological figures. Can something be done with Cicero's rhetorical "oh the times, oh the customs." I don't quite remember how it goes in Latin.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I just watched "Human Nature" today but managed to miss:
quote:Smith's journal clearly has 'Maius intra qua extra' written on one page — Latin for what is inside is greater than what is outside, which is a reference to the TARDIS
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Cool observation, pooka! I missed that.
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
The Fates should also be considered.
Dr. Who is not going around looking for trouble, but where ever he goes, he finds it. It is his fate to save the world, the girl, the universe, Time Itself.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Okay, nobody mentioned that episode, also by Douglas Adams I think, where the whole episode is like a retelling of the minotaur myth on earth but it turns out the minotaurs are these aliens who take over other planets by first sending one who builds a labyrinth, demands a tribute of young people, etc. No direct mention of the Theseus and Minotaur story is made at all during the entire episode, except at the very end the Doctor (THE Doctor, as played by Tom Baker) says something about the white ship "this time", an indirect reference. It was just so beautifully done! Totally assumed we would get it. You have to see that one. I don't remember the name of the episode but the minotaur thingy was called the Naimon.
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