Interesting story from the BBC News page about a Rabbi telling a woman not to run for a minor political office--Secretary-- because according to scripture, "Women should only be heard through their husbands."
I'm interested in what Lisa has to say about this, and I don't think we'll have to wait to hear it from her husband.
(Note: Neither I nor this post should be read as anti-Semitic or anti-Israel. Hey, there are backward literalists in every religion. Sure, this is something we expect from an Islamic country. The fact its coming from more liberal Israel is the funny, or scary part.)
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Telling people what not to do != banning them from doing it
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
That distinction isn't so clear when it's a religious authority figure, who claims that the order comes directly from God, speaking to a highly religious audience.
Would you like to argue that the 10 Commandments aren't bans, because it's just God telling people that they shall not do certain things?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:I'm interested in what Lisa has to say about this, and I don't think we'll have to wait to hear it from her husband.
You'd be waiting a pretty long time.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Darth_Mauve: Interesting story from the BBC News page about a Rabbi telling a woman not to run for a minor political office--Secretary-- because according to scripture, "Women should only be heard through their husbands."
I'm interested in what Lisa has to say about this, and I don't think we'll have to wait to hear it from her husband.
<sigh> I read it already. Incidentally, where he lives is irrelevant; BBC just put that in that as a gratuitous swipe against Jews who live in Judea and Samaria. At the synagogue where my partner works (in the office), the only members who are allowed to vote in synagogue elections, like for the board, are the men. Even single women can't vote there.
I think it's repulsive. Yes, there's a concept in Jewish law of serara, which translates more or less into "authority". It stems from the law that only a man can be king, and that we can't have a queen. The ruling is that this applies to all mesimot (roughly: positions). But this refers to hereditary posts, like kings.
What's interesting to me is the hypocrisy. The law in question bars both women and converts from such positions. But I don't think this rabbi has ever suggested that male converts not be permitted to run for this office. I know that the synagogue I belong to (a franchise of a national organization) doesn't permit women presidents. We can be board members, but not synagogue president. Converts, on the other hand, can be. The inconsistency tells me that this is a social issue, and not a legal one. It's misogyny; not piety.
quote:Originally posted by Darth_Mauve: (Note: Neither I nor this post should be read as anti-Semitic or anti-Israel.
I know, but it's depressing.
quote:Originally posted by Darth_Mauve: Hey, there are backward literalists in every religion.
Don't blame the religion. It's a cultural thing. Unfortunately, the haredi (usually translated as ultra-Orthodox, though that's considered a pejorative) community has been spreading like wildfire in response to society moving further and faster away from traditional values. It's a defensive posture, and I can understand it to a degree, but the creeping haredization of Orthodoxy, and the chumra (extra stringency) society that's coming out of it makes me want to scream sometimes.
I want my religion back.
quote:Originally posted by Darth_Mauve: Sure, this is something we expect from an Islamic country. The fact its coming from more liberal Israel is the funny, or scary part.)
The thing is, there's stuff just as bad, if not worse, on the other side. Even the horrible homophobia in so much of the Orthodox community is in part a reaction to the "Judge not" attitude of western society. I don't know what to do about it, honestly.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:I'm interested in what Lisa has to say about this, and I don't think we'll have to wait to hear it from her husband.
You'd be waiting a pretty long time.
Hee.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:I'm interested in what Lisa has to say about this, and I don't think we'll have to wait to hear it from her husband.
You'd be waiting a pretty long time.
Fridge Brilliance or Fridge Logic?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
No, it looks fascinating. And I just used an Amazon.com gift certificate last week. Bummer. Well, my wish list just grew. Thanks for the recommendation.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Tv tropes is a funny reference wiki for story telling devices and patterns as they can be found in any work of media and portrayed in a way to make it generally amusing and addictive, the closest thing it comes to formulating an opinion is providing me with recommendations for what to watch/read/listen to next if it has the tropes I happen to like.
Like the Posleen War series in classical scifi, FLCL in Anime, Jonothan Colten in music.
Followed by the fact that There Is No Such Thing As Notability which lets me put all of those "In Popular Culture" references of anywork into any work as long as its appears tangintally relevent.
I love that part of it and the freedom to write those in for when i find they are missing.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: No, it looks fascinating. And I just used an Amazon.com gift certificate last week. Bummer. Well, my wish list just grew. Thanks for the recommendation.
You're welcome. The first 20 pages or so are available on Google Books.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
"Fridge Brilliance or Fridge Logic?"
Who gives a flying frak about made up categories from some lame website? Honestly. If you have something to say, say it. In your words. I have no interest in going to that site to look up and try and figure out what you were trying to say about Lyrhawn's comment. If you're too lazy to use normal human words to say what you mean, fine. It's a real shame, but hell, do whatever you want.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Yes and I'm sure you linking to a random shit webcomic that had a tongue in cheek comment regarding it is the paragon ur-example of a serious critical response to my fanboying of tv tropes rather then simply asking what I meant but no! Linking to a random piece of dialogue thats only tangentially relevant only because it mentions the word 'tv tropes' out of context in order to bash my enthusiastic and harmless obsession was absolutely the only way you could consider, but hell do whatever you want.
For your information TV Tropes doesn't have some kind of evil power that strips away your ability to come up with independent thought, all it does is give funny WikiWord names to tropes that have existed already since the beginning of recorded history not how you should use them, only examples of HOW they HAVE been used and in what ways, which to me is an excellent tool when I lack the money to buy the various books I can't download or otherwise steal on how to write.
If you want a site to riff on that actually does have its book stamped onto the neck of human thought and creativity that's SomethingAwful.com and its membership only cots you 5.99$ worth of Human souls.
For your information Fridge Logic is the kind of sudden realization of a plot hole though only through using common sense to analyzing the steps used in a given plot or story and realizing that what happened couldn't have possibly worked or should have worked very differently, kind of like wondering if the light bulb inside the refrigerator turns on or not when the door is closed.
Fridge Brilliance is the kinda the logical conclusion when you realize that something that should be a plot hole actually isn't based on some extra bit of axillary information that isn't immediately obvious until you think about it.
Kind of like the phrase "At first I was kind of like this *frown in thought* but then I was like this *lol*".
Fridge Horror though not relevant is when you realize that something that doesn't immediately seem conspicuous or strange actually is 100% nightmare fueled horror when you think about its logical ramifications like the ending of 'How to train a Dragon' when you realize that now the Vikings now have dragon mounts etc.
However I am certain you feel confident with your Knee jerk dimissal of an entire large, popular and well known wiki on the worlds trivia so its probably unnecessary for me to correct you that it is genuinely funny, entertaining and a thoughtful place of introspection of various literary and media works as a evolutionary process that enriches my life in ways that Wikipedia never could and for me that is my crowning moment of awesome and why ultimately it is unnecessary for me to care about your careless attempts at dismissal.
[ May 27, 2010, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Blayne Bradley ]
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Blayne and tvtropes, sitting in a tree - K I S S I N G!
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
Blayne, perhaps your energies are best spent NOT explaining tropes to Lisa.
Just a thought.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Blayne, this isn't the appropriate thread for this. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Blayne, this isn't the appropriate thread for this.
The situations are completely different.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by The White Whale: Blayne, perhaps your energies are best spent NOT explaining tropes to Lisa.
Just a thought.
Since she obviously doesn't actually read tv tropes and implied she won't then I must explain it to her, ignorance must be crushed at every opportunity and dragged kicking and screaming unto the middle of the street to be shot.
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
It's not ignorance.
Dude, we know you love TVTropes. We know that Lisa (among others, myself included) would rather not think as the TVTropes community thinks. You're wasting time and energy.
It's a regular cycle...you post a trope sans link, someone complains, you freak out. Maybe in the future you can, instead of stating the trope and expecting us all to follow, simply use words that everyone can easily understand first and also provide a link to TVTropes for anyone who is interested. Things would be SO MUCH smoother.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Since she obviously doesn't actually read tv tropes...
I don't think that's obvious at all. I, for example, do occasionally read TV Tropes, and yet I also tire very quickly of people who speak only in "tropes." It's actually less interesting than, say, trying to speak only in Beatles lyrics.
Here's the other thing: tropes are tropes because they're famous. This means you don't need to explain the trope to people if it's a good trope; if you do need to explain it, it's not a good one. This also means that the people most familiar with the trope are also likely to find mentions of it to be the most tiresome, since they're running into it regularly. Ergo, simply observing that something is a trope adds next to no value in normal conversation.
That's not to say that recording tropes on TV Tropes isn't something that can be fun, as is reading the entries (usually because they're often wittily done, and sometimes -- as you've noted -- because they reveal some interesting things about narrative patterns). But coming into a conversation in progress to drop a Trope is about as helpful as noting, when having a meeting over speakerphone, that "Hey! This speakerphone is a Cisco 6180!" (That is to say: sometimes the brand of speakerphone may in fact be relevant. More often, however, it will only be of interest to people who are already interested in and talking about speakerphones (like speakerphone-spotters, if such people exist.))
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
quote: It's a regular cycle...you post a trope sans link, someone complains, you freak out. Maybe in the future you can, instead of stating the trope and expecting us all to follow, simply use words that everyone can easily understand first and also provide a link to TVTropes for anyone who is interested. Things would be SO MUCH smoother.
Or, alternatively, just post in Klingon. It's pretty equivalent, without having your exercise in geeky non-communication being in a meaningless (to most people here) subset of English. The end result will pretty much be the same, but you'll get less people hassling you about it.
edit:
Although, honestly, I think people (myself included) aren't really addressing what Blayne is really saying. Yeah, he's spazzing about TV Tropes this time, but I'm pretty sure whether he's spazzing about this, China, or any number of his other topics, the real thing he's saying is "Look at MEEEEEEEEE!"
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: However the point to me is that ultimately tv tropes will enhance my life and that is why I use trope-speak.
At this point it's just led you further down the path of practically autistic obsession with things and your accompanying hostility towards having those fields of focus challenged in any way, so I'd have to say no. tvtropes hasn't yet enhanced your life. It's only aided your problems.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:if you do need to explain it, it's not a good one
Aside from being an oversimplified generalization your simply cribbing "don't explain the joke it kills the joke" and trying to apply it to something else, tropes are not jokes they do not always have inherent humor in the name and alot of the time would not be recognizable as a fairly complex story telling mechanic from its three word Added Alliterative Appeal WikiWord name.
Thus to some extant if you are dealing with people who aren't familiar with it you need to explain it which is part of the fun is reading the article itself and then the examples.
Not only that but I do feel you can get some humor from joke explaining but more on a abstract meta level like when VGCats with the constant "and by [X] I meant Penis" gags.
quote:it will only be of interest to people who are already interested in and talking about speakerphones (like speakerphone-spotters, if such people exist.
Rule 35 if it exists there is a fetish for it. Though in general I imagine electronics Otaku's probably cover it at least broadly.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: However the point to me is that ultimately tv tropes will enhance my life and that is why I use trope-speak.
At this point it's just led you further down the path of practically autistic obsession with things and your accompanying hostility towards having those fields of focus challenged in any way, so I'd have to say no. tvtropes hasn't yet enhanced your life. It's only aided your problems.
I am autistic though, I'll be officially consider a student with a major functional disability starting this year.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
I know numerous autistic people who have no problems being polite, despite having difficulty picking up on social cues. Also, there's a difference between social cues and being explicitly informed.
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: I know numerous autistic people who have no problems being polite, despite having difficulty picking up on social cues. Also, there's a difference between social cues and being explicitly informed.
While I understand your motivation, I really think this discussion should end here.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Zzzzzz...... hmph bah wuzza ::sits up suddenly:: Oh, crap! Were you talking, Blayne? Sorry, I dozed off there for a minute.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I see it was a completely erroneous lapse in judgment for me to have ever developed respect for you, I have now been suitably corrected and now I rest assured in the knowledge that your simply just an asshole out to harm others you just keep coming back as a twisted abomination, evil and out to harm us.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Blayne, this isn't the appropriate thread for this.
The situations are completely different.
Of course. The situation is always completely different when the tables are turned.
Posted by Mucous (Member # 12331) on :
Ah Hatrack.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: I see it was a completely erroneous lapse in judgment for me to have ever developed respect for you, I have now been suitably corrected and now I rest assured in the knowledge that your simply just an asshole out to harm others you just keep coming back as a twisted abomination, evil and out to harm us.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
The first 20 pages or so are available on Google Books.