Okay so this is going to be something new/different as reviews go as I haven't actually played the game yet but I am at the menu hoping desperately and I mean orphan clinging onto dear life level of desperate looking for a way to switch the language options to Japanese with English subtitles for greater immersion but I guess I am out of luck.
-1 point, 99 points remaining.
Oh, I just today spend my second hard earned paycheck from finally starting a crummy dish washing job and bought an Xbox 360 Arcade, no warranties or anything fancy yet, what I will do next week with my next paycheck is return it to the story and exchange it for something better (either the Elite that's bundled with Halo ODST or the new Kinnect compatible one) and THEN get the 5 year extended warranty, since these things are designed to break exactly 1 day 23 seconds after the 1 year warranty expires.
So back to FFXIII then, what I will be doing is posting little updates as I play the game in 1 hour installments over the next few days (as I can't play it all at once because of things like eating, sleeping, workings, breathing etc) giving my moment by moment most objective view of the gaming experience and then conclude with my final thoughts once I'm done.
But yeah, this is essentially me finally getting to play FFXIII and finally owning a nextgen console that I will actually get a chance to use that won't get stolen this time around by ignorant ghetto thief people.
*goes back to stuff*
[ July 16, 2010, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Blayne Bradley ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Vague AND Cliched dialogue in first 10 seconds of the opening cinematic.... -1 point 98 remaining.
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
It's good, but definitely not great and **** story.
Lightning and Fang are hawt.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
+1 point for keeping some retro older final fantasy ui stuff, 99 points remaining, in first combat tutorial now.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Okay the story is definately picking up for me, a bit nonlinear like in Mother 3 which I was playing before this so its not to much of a shakeup, the dialogue is pretty good thus far.
Only complaint though, while I could guess that Hope is probably harbouring feelings of revenge against Snow this is entirely because of tvtropes making me somewhat genre savvy in being able to guess/want it to happen... But there's actually very little in game/dialgue to actually support this.
-1 point to be safe, 98 points remaining.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
+2 points for me playing until 3 am, the game definately has grabbed me to the point I want to keep going thats for sure, but sleep time now.
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
Blayne, I'm sure you're way excited with your game. But could you edit your topic title please, I'd rather not do it for you.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I haven't actually played the game yet but I am at the menu hoping desperately and I mean orphan clinging onto dear life level of desperate looking for a way to switch the language options to Japanese with English subtitles for greater immersion...
It seems to me that you would be more immersed were you not required to mentally translate everything into your native language.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:I haven't actually played the game yet but I am at the menu hoping desperately and I mean orphan clinging onto dear life level of desperate looking for a way to switch the language options to Japanese with English subtitles for greater immersion...
It seems to me that you would be more immersed were you not required to mentally translate everything into your native language.
This doesnt make any sense.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I may be undercutting the "Moment By Moment Most Objective View of the Gaming Experience" but I didn't even make it more than six hours into the gaming experience, and neither did most of the rest of the gaming studio. Even the heavy JRPG fans really view squeenix as a studio that's drifted into mediocrity (art teams aside) and the gameplay design of this game was pretty good evidence of that. It's the distilled epitome of the linear, railroaded grind that JRPG's get mocked for and that the industry is leaving behind.
It makes us dismayed for the prospects of Deus Ex III, because squeenix is worse with action games.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:I haven't actually played the game yet but I am at the menu hoping desperately and I mean orphan clinging onto dear life level of desperate looking for a way to switch the language options to Japanese with English subtitles for greater immersion...
It seems to me that you would be more immersed were you not required to mentally translate everything into your native language.
This doesnt make any sense.
It makes perfect sense. He's saying that by adding a step to the interactive process, you're actually making it harder to immerse yourself into the game. I believe that there are a lot of great reasons to watch something in a native language with subtitles. I'm not sure video games fall into that category, because Japanese being the native tongue of fictional video game players doesn't seem to matter much unless, say, the game is a WWII epic and the characters are actually Japanese. Final Fantasy doesn't seem to meet that requirement. In other words, I don't understand what you think you're trying to immerse yourself in by wanting Japanese.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Now, this is weird, I just can't pinpoint vanille's accent.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
It's half-Australian, half-generic. It bugged me for a long, long while as well.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Its hot, thats all I know...(She's 18 right?)
I can't wait until you hit Chapter 11. You will then give the game +100 points. That is when the game opens up and becomes a free roaming game. If Final Fantasy XIV online plays like this, I'll be playing it this fall.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
I only played a few hours (I'm on the Ice lake I think) into the game before getting distracted by other things (though I hope to get the motivation to go back eventually). In the mean time I have a couple questions for those who've played more:
1) Do you ever stop wanting to smack Hope upside the head for being an idiot?
2) Does the game ever stop re-iterating very basic plot points ad nauseum in all the little session write-ups and such? I feel like I read the exact same plot summary a dozen times with two words changed every time...
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: I may be undercutting the "Moment By Moment Most Objective View of the Gaming Experience" but I didn't even make it more than six hours into the gaming experience, and neither did most of the rest of the gaming studio. Even the heavy JRPG fans really view squeenix as a studio that's drifted into mediocrity (art teams aside) and the gameplay design of this game was pretty good evidence of that. It's the distilled epitome of the linear, railroaded grind that JRPG's get mocked for and that the industry is leaving behind.
It makes us dismayed for the prospects of Deus Ex III, because squeenix is worse with action games.
So far I'm having a blast and so did alot of people so it seems if its own metacritic score and review scores seem to be of any indication with its uhm, how shall I put it? Best selling game in the franchises' history?
Its not just however the australian accents though I already determined it was something vahuely commonwealth but also the unounciation of her words is a little off/uncanny, kind of like listening to the G-Man from Half Life speak, I'm not marking it down, I'm not saying it 'bugged' me or anything as I think its a pretty unique accent and if I'm geussing right and shes actually from Pulse and people from Pulse speak that way its actually kinda cool.
Oh and Sazh (I prouncing it Tsazz because its cooler) is hilariously black. It like they took every semi complimentary black guy trope and put it into one character, he reminds me of Granddad from the Boondocks without the swearing.
As for vanille, I'm pretty sure shes more 16/17 at most though however thats still legal in Canada so I'm good.
However I just can't help the feeling that vanille is how those girly girl moe anime characters would look like if I saw one in real life.
quote:It makes perfect sense. He's saying that by adding a step to the interactive process, you're actually making it harder to immerse yourself into the game. I believe that there are a lot of great reasons to watch something in a native language with subtitles. I'm not sure video games fall into that category, because Japanese being the native tongue of fictional video game players doesn't seem to matter much unless, say, the game is a WWII epic and the characters are actually Japanese. Final Fantasy doesn't seem to meet that requirement. In other words, I don't understand what you think you're trying to immerse yourself in by wanting Japanese.
Its just a personal preference of mine to watch things subtitled in a foreign language, watching anything in english is like watching something in the uncanny valley to me, yes even films actually filmed actually in North America with english as the default, I watch it with subtitles.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:watching anything in english is like watching something in the uncanny valley to me
That ... that actually explains quite a lot.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheGrimace: I only played a few hours (I'm on the Ice lake I think) into the game before getting distracted by other things (though I hope to get the motivation to go back eventually). In the mean time I have a couple questions for those who've played more:
1) Do you ever stop wanting to smack Hope upside the head for being an idiot?
2) Does the game ever stop re-iterating very basic plot points ad nauseum in all the little session write-ups and such? I feel like I read the exact same plot summary a dozen times with two words changed every time...
I just mentally voice over the write ups with the narrator's voice from Mass Effect and it becomes cool/tolerable, like as if Pulse/Cocoon are a planet in the Mass Effect Universe.
Also the FF Codex's are like in ME2, optional and I just skim past the repetative points.
As for hope, I actually kinda like the whole misplaced anger which turns to hate which turns to the darkside narrative device so I'm rolling with it, I like how I managed to as soon as his mother died guessed PERFECTLY (TVtropes will Ruin your Live ) that this was going to happen so I ain't complaining.
It's like I managed to cause the waveform to collapse and dynamically changed the plot on a whim.
Like I mean Hope's position while misplaced is understandable, hes a young man who just had his MOTHER cruelly taken away from him forever and THIS is the man to egged her on and got her to join him on his apparantly suicidal (from his POV) quest to be a "hero" from his POV.
Its irrational but so are emotions, he has no one to blame and Snow makes a convincing scapegoat, a cognitive dissonance, I'm liking this train-plot driven collision in action so I'm sticking with it.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheGrimace: 1) Do you ever stop wanting to smack Hope upside the head for being an idiot?
Yes. He stops being a whiny little turd and actually becomes pretty darn awesome.
quote:Originally posted by TheGrimace: 2) Does the game ever stop re-iterating very basic plot points ad nauseum in all the little session write-ups and such? I feel like I read the exact same plot summary a dozen times with two words changed every time...
I... didn't actually bother to read the plot points, and I pretty much skipped all the cut scenes until Chapter 8, I think, or whenever Sazh's backstory really starts coming out. The other cut scenes/plot points get much more interesting at that point, as well.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Skipping all the cutscenes....? Dude... Thats like..... 90% of the game until then you've skipped over...
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
cutscenes arent games.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
FF games are just as much a cinematic experiances as visual novels are to books, skipping a cutscene in a FF game is like going to the bathroom in the middle of an action scene in a movie, your missing out on the experience.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
What umberhulk said.
And besides, the early ones were boring and repetitive - and I hadn't started caring about the characters at all. I'm pretty sure skipping those early ones maintained my sanity and my desire to play the game.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
To me there were important to get a feel for their characterizations.
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
I watch the cutscenes, but some people want to cut the fat and get straight to the actual game part. It's understandable.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Carrie,
You ever play the Xenosaga series on the PS2?
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
Theres a scene where Sazh almost accidentally looks up Vanille's skirt and his chocobo blocks his sight.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Final Fantasy XIII.
The gameplay mechanic was interesting, I'll say that. Was it all that good? Well, the focus turned out not to be on the normal "press button to attack" thing, but on a slightly contrived overarching attack pattern thing.
It was a different thing to have to focus on, at least. And at least I didn't have to hit "attack" over and over. Honestly, though, the system in XII had a lot more depth to it and also got rid of the boring manual control, though they didn't let you USE its full depth for the longest time.
I'd say the battle system of XII was better. But the battle system here at least had an idea in its head. Having to switch between different paradigms at rapid pace to keep up with a powerful enemy could get pretty fun, by the endgame. I had a few really long, and really fun optional battles, like the very last of the Titan Trials. That battle was fun. And took an hour.
Making grinding very hard to do through most of the game by limiting the amount you could advance was also a pretty good step, though also done somewhat arbitrarily.
Making the game end when the main lead dies sucks, but at least you can just retry the battle at any time.
Still, the game was easy, and in its streamlining process became in design as much an unintentional parody of classic JRPGs as anything else.
"Remember all those things you needed to do? Guess what! Those really were just busywork. We'll just automate it, so relax!"
In doing so, they did lose something. Though they tried some new things at the same time, and their attempt to experiment is always appreciated, even if it didn't get it perfectly.
Give me back Final Fantasy XII's system... with some tweaks, that could have been perfect, if time consuming.
Graphics were amazing, of course. Their art teams are where it's at. Story? I didn't mind it too much, and the characters' story arcs intentionally made them less annoying by the end. That was good. Chapter 11 was good, too. If they had made more of the game like that, then the game might have been better. I really enjoyed my time there, and when things got linear again it was hard to like it.
Oh yeah. The corridors. It was the laziest thing I've ever seen in a Final Fantasy. I was definitely not impressed by "Crash Bandicoot: The RPG" in that regard.
In the end, I did have fun with the game. I rolled with the flow and enjoyed a somewhat different experience than what I'm used to. But would I play it again? Eh... once is enough for me. I promptly went back to Persona after beating FFXIII, and got my butt kicked by a real rpg series. Hello instant death attacks that actually work...
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
XII actually did keep me interested for quite a clip. Even got me to bother with grind. So, in its own unique little way, it's given me some important lessons for being an MMO developer.
XIII though, we can ... um, safely disregard. It is a story you tend to have to busywork through. Great if you like the story. Less great if you're oh hey this swearing bloke summed it up better GAME OVAR Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
"Making the game end when the main lead dies sucks, but at least you can just retry the battle at any time"
You know, I read this line thinking it was a plot spoiler and came close to getting pissed until I realized it wasnt.
Posted by Sean Monahan (Member # 9334) on :
quote:Originally posted by umberhulk: You know, I read this line thinking it was a plot spoiler and came close to getting pissed until I realized it wasnt.
lol Exactly the same here.
I'm up to Chapter 6 now. For much of the game so far, I've been a little disappointed that there doesn't seem to be much to *do*. It's too easy, and I hardly have to do anything to win. It's moving out of that a bit now though, I've had a few difficult battles now. It certainly looks very pretty, and the music is great.
I should probably say this is the first FF game I've ever played, and I know nothing at all about the others.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Blayne, the fact that your scoring method gives the game 100 points to start with (simply because it's Final Fantasy and you're an incredible fanboy, I guess?) makes this whole thing suspect.
More suspect, I mean.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Dude, spoilers godddamnit, jesus christ I said as much that I was just starting! Please edit it out so I can forget.
Uuhm, Dan, whats more suspect is you leaping to conclusions, firstly its partly a satire of scoring methods because as Yahtzee said, its not possible to present a complex opinion numerically and secondly the idea was to start perfect and then subtract/add points as needed to get the proper score, which is the same way I review Anime but on a 5/5 scale where if you noticed quite a few animes I reviewed ended up with the score they did because "didn't like this, or felt this weakened it" and then subtracted as many stars I felt was fair.
Though its getting to the point I am getting immersed enough into the game that I am unable to maintain my scoring method (having to switch between two screens and all that) which I think says quite a bit in its favour.
Also, shut your mouth about "fanboys", shut it, its insulting the way you say it, it shouldn't be a stigma to be a fan of something if you can't say it in either a positive or neutral light you shouldnt say it at all, "Otaku" is just barely becomming a badge of bride in some places YOUR NOT HELPING.
I am sick and tired you using that word that way.
And no, I am not an "encredible fanboy" I haven't beaten a FF game in years, Earthbound was probably the last JRPG I finished in recent memory.
quote:XII actually did keep me interested for quite a clip. Even got me to bother with grind. So, in its own unique little way, it's given me some important lessons for being an MMO developer.
XIII though, we can ... um, safely disregard. It is a story you tend to have to busywork through. Great if you like the story. Less great if you're oh hey this swearing bloke summed it up better GAME OVAR
Samprany we all know Yahtzee's well publisized opinions on JRPGs and that we can safely disregard them as "the ignorant hate speech that it is", hes admitted as much in his TWEWY review that everything he doesn't like about a JRPG are the very things JRPG fans find attractive and that his review of it is a subjective personal opinion and that if we really enjoy a game his review of it shouldn't change anything or have any bearing on it as per his Mail Bag Showdown thread and that his review of FFXIII is just like his SSBB review, something he did because the fans bleeted for it like a thousand sheep and thus takes malicious pleasure in esvicerating it.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
lol
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
Yahtzee played it for an hour.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Blayne: The label fanboy should only be bestowed on those who without apology laud absolutely everything from a broad source.
You have no problems taking jabs at religion, America, and anti-socialists. When it comes to everything East Asia though it's all sixes and sevens. Mind, if we talk about Jiang Jie Shi, or Zhang Rong, you have plenty of criticism. You even managed to agree with 99.9% of humanity on the stupidity of The Great Leap and The Cultural Revolution. So you aren't quite a Communist fan boy anymore so much as a slightly moderate yet strong supporter. That's good!
I think what people are looking for is for you to acknowledge that many of the Final Fantasy games if not utter crap, have stagnated at the very least. If you are having a great time with the game that's good, I'm glad you found a way to alter your perspective so that even that steaming pile of crap is enjoyable. I sure wasn't able to. But there are plenty things I enjoy that most people don't, and I can acknowledge that my opposition isn't wrong.
FFXIII is extremely linear, it was intended that way, but intent doesn't translate into good idea, anymore than a ten year old falling over and saying, "Meant to do that!" does. The characters aren't just not new, they are nearly identical to characters we've seen in other games. Lightning is Cloud, yes I know that when they went into character design the game director explicitly asked the designers to conceive of a female version of Cloud. But Cloud was already completely replicated in Squall, and Cloud was foreshadowed by Cecil in FFIV. Snow might as well be Tidus, Vanille might as well be Yuffi, Ouerba is LuLu, Sazh is the other type of Black guy Asians know about. There's Mr. T and Chris Tucker, and different ratios of those two personalities, that's it. At least they got a decent voice actor for him though. Hope is an angsty teenager, I can't really recall that archetype in any other FF games, but it's about as enjoyable as "hero with a secret past."
The game designers have tried over and over to find a way to gain the epic feel of turn based battles with the unrestricted flow of action found in a real time system. Final Fantasy XII was pretty good at doing this, Final Fantasy XIII tried to add on top of that and it had some interesting concepts but nothing worth running home and writing down.
There's nothing really difficult to master in the combat system. It's rock paper scissors but you get to see about five seconds in advance what your opponent is going to use and in case that wasn't enough time don't worry, you have to just stop caring to lose.
Now granted, I didn't make it to the big open world section of the game. I made it somewhere into the second disk and decided I hadn't really had much fun up to that point. There are many things where I don't have to endure any boredom and the payoff is bigger than FFXIII so I just stopped playing. I tell myself one day I might be so bored I try it again and become surprised, but I said that about Dragon Quest VIII and at least that game was freaking hard.
I think the very last JRPG I every played completely through to the finish without stopping for weeks and months was Blue Dragon. To be honest that game was alright, it was more than likely the music that kept me going though. I wish Uematsu had turned out more sound tracks like that game in his later years.
Anyway I'm at the end of my points. Enjoy your game, but at least acknowledge there's plenty about the current world of JRPGs that kinda sucks, then you can be an otaku without being a fan boy.
[ July 17, 2010, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: Carrie,
You ever play the Xenosaga series on the PS2?
Nope, Xbox 360 is the first console I've owned/played serious time on.
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
I dont think Rock paper series is a very fitting anolagy in the precise sense.
It would be a fitting anology to pokemon singleplayer or the ship battles in Skies of Arcadia, or to a smalle degree Fire Emblem, but it's not the same thing here.
It's target prioritizing, and shifting when your buffing and debuffing/taking damage/filling break meter/finishing it off.
Also, the sphere grid is pretty good in terms of thinking about what you need. And you eventually get more equipment slots.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
umberhulk: It's an analogy it's not precise. I still think it's rock paper scissors.
They haven't done anything, attack/cast buffs debuffs. They are attacking, cast heal. They just attacked, back to attack/buffs and debuffs. You can add, sometimes they play scissor resistant paper attack, in which case you cast paper so that you don't die.
Instead of worrying about how much damage you're effectively doing, you worry about some other bar and filling it up. Just as you think the game might actually get complicated you find out about paradigms and how you really can reduce all that complexity into three paradigms I call paper scissors and rock. All the strategy now is setting up your paradigms before battle and then playing paper scissors rock again with those paradigms you watch more than you control.
Then again I still find the most enjoyable battle system I ever played with was Chrono Cross. I liked having to choose between stronger and stronger attacks with increased chances for missing as well as stamina costs. Spells of various colors that damaged, added status effects, and created an effect on the field. You could switch players mid attack, and the animations weren't too long, but still cool.
My only complaint was they had too many characters so they couldn't setup more dual techs or tri techs which would have made my party choices more interesting.
[ July 17, 2010, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Blayne: The label fanboy should only be bestowed on those who without apology laud absolutely everything from a broad source.
Which I am technically not in regards to JRPGs I merely defend them when I see criticism regarding them reaching absurd levels. "drrr grind is bad derp".
quote: You have no problems taking jabs at religion, America, and anti-socialists. When it comes to everything East Asia though it's all sixes and sevens. Mind, if we talk about Jiang Jie Shi, or Zhang Rong, you have plenty of criticism. You even managed to agree with 99.9% of humanity on the stupidity of The Great Leap and The Cultural Revolution. So you aren't quite a Communist fan boy anymore so much as a slightly moderate yet strong supporter. That's good!
If I recal I am usually called out on this when my own remarks cross whatever and wherever the line happens to be that particular day.
Thus it is only fair of me to act pissed regarding certain things that cross a certain line wherever it is on a particular day.
quote: I think what people are looking for is for you to acknowledge that many of the Final Fantasy games if not utter crap, have stagnated at the very least. If you are having a great time with the game that's good, I'm glad you found a way to alter your perspective so that even that steaming pile of crap is enjoyable. I sure wasn't able to. But there are plenty things I enjoy that most people don't, and I can acknowledge that my opposition isn't wrong.
And I just don't see the criticism as valid, its like "criticising a midget for being short" most of the things certain people on this board complain about are the very things that make the games enjoyable and fun the play, if we want nonlinear rpgs we'ld play Morrowind!
Final Fantasy was and always will be a franchise of usually noncontinuative (as in no sequals or linking continuality, but as we know theres been a few exceptions recently) generic RPGs with an emphasis on story following roughly the same core gameplay principles that became solidly defined as of Final Fantasy III and polished with FF8, I wouldn't argue that its stagnated, FF isn't a country with a growing economy, its a franchise with a core feel and expectation of it from its fanbase for what a FF game should be, deviating from this 'significantly' outside of a few justified experiments would make it not be final fantasy anymore and then we wouldnt play it because there;d be some other better rpg.
In the sameway I prefer DDO to WOW because while DDO is inferior it at least FEELS like Dungeons and Dragons.
quote: FFXIII is extremely linear, it was intended that way, but intent doesn't translate into good idea, anymore than a ten year old falling over and saying, "Meant to do that!" does. The characters aren't just not new, they are nearly identical to characters we've seen in other games. Lightning is Cloud, yes I know that when they went into character design the game director explicitly asked the designers to conceive of a female version of Cloud. But Cloud was already completely replicated in Squall, and Cloud was foreshadowed by Cecil in FFIV. Snow might as well be Tidus, Vanille might as well be Yuffi, Ouerba is LuLu, Sazh is the other type of Black guy Asians know about. There's Mr. T and Chris Tucker, and different ratios of those two personalities, that's it. At least they got a decent voice actor for him though. Hope is an angsty teenager, I can't really recall that archetype in any other FF games, but it's about as enjoyable as "hero with a secret past."
I'll just point you to the tvtropes article for The Simpsons Already Did It and the general idea that... So? Asking for originality is unreasonable as neatly anything has been done, and what I am satisfied with is CREATIVITY, in fact aside from MAYBE Lightning I didn't see anyone as being from previous games but rather as their Anime character archetype equivilent.
Vanille: Manic Pixie Dream Girl Bordering on Staff Chick and Magical Girlfriend. Snow: Cool Older Brother archetype. Etc Etc. I see alot more anime tropes then I see FF ones. TBH.
quote: The game designers have tried over and over to find a way to gain the epic feel of turn based battles with the unrestricted flow of action found in a real time system. Final Fantasy XII was pretty good at doing this, Final Fantasy XIII tried to add on top of that and it had some interesting concepts but nothing worth running home and writing down.
Neva' played FFXII so with my only frame of reference being Oblivion Imma gonna have to go with FFXIII here as having a neat battle system.
quote: There's nothing really difficult to master in the combat system. It's rock paper scissors but you get to see about five seconds in advance what your opponent is going to use and in case that wasn't enough time don't worry, you have to just stop caring to lose.
So? Starcraft in competitive professional play (cough Korea) comnes down to essentially this as well, Zerg beats Terran, Protoss Beats Zerg, Terran beats Protoss.
Doesn't stop them from pimping it out into the most epic rock paper scissors ever.
quote: Now granted, I didn't make it to the big open world section of the game. I made it somewhere into the second disk and decided I hadn't really had much fun up to that point. There are many things where I don't have to endure any boredom and the payoff is bigger than FFXIII so I just stopped playing. I tell myself one day I might be so bored I try it again and become surprised, but I said that about Dragon Quest VIII and at least that game was freaking hard.
*Shrug*
quote: I think the very last JRPG I every played completely through to the finish without stopping for weeks and months was Blue Dragon. To be honest that game was alright, it was more than likely the music that kept me going though. I wish Uematsu had turned out more sound tracks like that game in his later years.
Anyway I'm at the end of my points. Enjoy your game, but at least acknowledge there's plenty about the current world of JRPGs that kinda sucks, then you can be an otaku without being a fan boy.
None of these points seem to be anywhere near relevent to my rebuttal of Samprany's Appeal To Authority to the Escapists own professional troll (as awesome as Yahtzee generally is hes long since stopped pretending to be objective in his reviews).
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Oh and yeah, if there IS something I AM a fanboy of its Warhammer 40,000 and the Imperial Guards, ALL HAIL COMMISSAR CIAPHAS CAIN HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!!!.
Essentially FFXIII just earned +100 points, 198 points remaining.
This game just suddenly became so cool and awesome with this one boss that it would have to release flesh eating beattles in my room before I sstarted to seriously mark it down.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
You're right, I was responding to your indignation towards Dan_Frank.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Oh and yeah, if there IS something I AM a fanboy of...
I think a better question is, "Is there anything Blayne's just sort of 'meh' about?"
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Which I am technically not in regards to JRPGs I merely defend them when I see criticism regarding them reaching absurd levels. "drrr grind is bad derp".
Well the very word "grind" implies an unpleasant experience. If you are going to make your players work, you should make sure the reward is at least 1:1. In many JRPGs this just translates to higher numbers when you hit things, more hit points, perhaps some new techniques. This is often enough for most people, but in some games you grind and your characters just go off in some direction and get abilities you don't have any inkling are coming. FFXIII gives you *some* options but again it's paper scissors rock. Your characters can be two of any of those three options. OK there's actually 5 options, but one of them is almost completely useless 90% of the time except in two or three important boss battles where you have to have certain debuffs. That's just poor balancing.
quote:If I recal I am usually called out on this when my own remarks cross whatever and wherever the line happens to be that particular day.
Thus it is only fair of me to act pissed regarding certain things that cross a certain line wherever it is on a particular day.
You don't have to be either pissed or overjoyed. You could calmly ask why your opposition seems to have drawn the line there. Reputations take a while to change Blayne, I've still got reputations I'm slowly eroding away myself.
quote:I'll just point you to the tvtropes article for The Simpsons Already Did It and the general idea that... So? Asking for originality is unreasonable as neatly anything has been done, and what I am satisfied with is CREATIVITY, in fact aside from MAYBE Lightning I didn't see anyone as being from previous games but rather as their Anime character archetype equivilent.
I don't buy it. I'm sure we can't create anything completely unique, or even mostly unique, but we can surprise people with new cultures, new ways of thinking, new appearances, new environments. People are capable of so much variety, but Final Fantasy doesn't even try to explore it. Character's motivations are supremely shallow, boring, and unsurprising. Perhaps the philosophy they frequently weave into the conversations is really penetrating, but when translated to English it just sounds like intentional obfuscation, and simplistic meandering. Final Fantasy 4 had an interesting story. You start off as a general for a bad king and eventually you won't do his bidding anymore so you get cast out. Your best friend doesn't have the moral compunctions you have, but he deceives you into letting him help you only to stab you in the back over and over again. At one of the towns you are responsible for destroying you meet an orphan girl, and you feel obligated to take care of her. Eventually you atone for your sins and become a champion of good. Then, the game ends. It's a satisfying story arc! Final Fantasy 6 tried to add science fiction to the mix and it yielded interesting results! FF7 took place completely in the future, again, good results! FF8, they had to make it, but they didn't have ideas. FF9 threw back to the old FF games where we didn't get to see the castles and towns pre-rendered. It was fun to revisit it. I didn't play X, I've seen it played and it seemed OK. Everything since then has just been boring and repetitive. I don't like how the defining characteristic of every character is their hair color.
quote:So? Starcraft in competitive professional play (cough Korea) comnes down to essentially this as well, Zerg beats Terran, Protoss Beats Zerg, Terran beats Protoss.
Doesn't stop them from pimping it out into the most epic rock paper scissors ever.
So? In less competitive play it's far different. And alot of that was ironed out in SC2. Starcraft is a different mechanic. Every battle you start off essentially at level 1 and you have to decide what your strategy is going to be as the battle progresses and you see your opponents moves. It moves along very fast and you are rewarded very quickly.
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
Final Fantasy 8 sucks.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by umberhulk: Final Fantasy 8 sucks.
Sure did. I remember exploring around towards the beginning and finding a simulator room where you could fight a T-Rex. I beat the snot out of that thing for maybe 45 minutes, and it just kept coming. I couldn't run away either IIRC so I just turned off the game and erased the progress I'd made up til then since I'd last saved. I've never done that in a video game before or since.
That wasn't even the worst part of the game for me.
Posted by Ecthalion (Member # 8825) on :
eh, i enjoyed 8 quite a bit.
9 and 4 are still my favorites.
13 was pretty good but its too linear and enclosed. It's fights are a little repetative, but all of the FF series were when it comes to the battle mechanics. It is a game worth playing but in all honesty i don't know if i can bring myself to play through it multiple times like I have with 4-9.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Samprany we all know Yahtzee's well publisized opinions on JRPGs and that we can safely disregard them as "the ignorant hate speech that it is", hes admitted as much in his TWEWY review that everything he doesn't like about a JRPG are the very things JRPG fans find attractive and that his review of it is a subjective personal opinion and that if we really enjoy a game his review of it shouldn't change anything or have any bearing on it as per his Mail Bag Showdown thread and that his review of FFXIII is just like his SSBB review, something he did because the fans bleeted for it like a thousand sheep and thus takes malicious pleasure in esvicerating it.
If I'm supposed to disregard yahtzee's take entirely for being 'ignorant hate speech,' I also disregard your take for being even more profoundly one-sided.
quote:Samprany's Appeal To Authority to the Escapists own professional troll
You don't understand what an appeal to authority is. Also, my name is "Samprimary," not "Samprany."
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
i mean seriously just saying 'i think this guy said it better than me' does not make an appeal to authority. can the internet as a whole stop throwing out the formal names of fallacies without knowing how to really use them?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:can the internet as a whole stop throwing out the formal names of fallacies without knowing how to really use them?
Surely you jest.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
nice strawman there. ad hominem much?
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Essentially FFXIII just earned +100 points, 198 points remaining.
What a levelheaded and trustworthy review scheme.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: i mean seriously just saying 'i think this guy said it better than me' does not make an appeal to authority. can the internet as a whole stop throwing out the formal names of fallacies without knowing how to really use them?
Stating X is So because of Y's Opinion is appeal to authority, using his arguments without extrapolating your own is also plagarism.
quote:If I'm supposed to disregard yahtzee's take entirely for being 'ignorant hate speech,' I also disregard your take for being even more profoundly one-sided.
Firstly no one asked you to post here and frankly you should have known better then to do so, secondly I was quoting Yahtzee from a previous more objective review he did that contradicts yours noted:
quote:If you like RPG's and Knights of the Old Republic in particular then Mass Effect then take this review as the ignorant hate speech that it is, if you don't like RPGs then Mass Effect isn't going to cause an epiphany.
Also a little gem I picked up somewhere.
quote:What happens when caustic criticism, a total lack of objectivity, and misrepresenting facts combine. I'm not going to comment on whether or not Zero Punctuation is funny or entertaining. That's not the problem I have with it, even if I think the jokes have gotten worse. I can't account for taste, so I can't comment on that.
What I can comment on is Zero Punctuation as a review, and it fails horribly. Some may argue that he isn't meant to be taken seriously, but the sheer number of people who do take him seriously requires he takes his position seriously as well. People take his reviews for fact, or at least heavily consider them, and he does nothing to dissuade them, from somewhat minor things such as not mentioning you can change the controls of a game he hated the controls on, to outright lying in his review of Monster Hunter, where he portrays the first fifteen minutes of the game as the entire game. Looking at that review, if you paid attention, you could have noticed he never talked about actually hunting the monsters, nor did he mention that he quit the game, but he did helpfully use the last minute of the game to bash the wii, and the first minute to bash Japanese games.
That's another one of the problems with Yahtzee; even if he isn't being disingenuous with his reviews, and manages to get his facts straight (A depressingly rare occurance), he has a blatent hatred of certain genres (jRPGs), series (Sonic) and systems (Wii). To go through all of those examples, Monster Hunter began with the first minute talking about utterly irrelevant Japanese games and how they all were either terrible or porn, and his review of FFXIII blatently stated he hated it (At least he was honest this time), his review of Sonic Unleashed spent half the time saying the series shouldn't exist and most of the rest complaining about the word werehog, and every game for the Wii he reviews, he states it is a horrible console for at least a minute, and, in some cases (Madworld) more time than the actual review.
Overall, Yahtzee isn't just a bad reviewer; he's not even a reviewer at all. He's a humorist who, possibly due to his fame, possibly due to his fans gushing over him, believes he is a reviewer. That produces some genuinely frightening reactions, where ZP fans who have not played a game treat the opinion of somebody who has not played most of the game and rants about how all games in that genre are terrible as fact. That is the problem I have with ZP.
Basically Yahtzee's review of FFXIII is invalid because of its lack of objectivity, and is nolonger so much as admits that the things he finds wrong with the game are the very things JRPG fans or specifically FF fans love about the game.
His review of it, while funny and makes SOME points (as otherwise it wouldn't be as funny) misses the point, personally I am finding the game engaging but then again I didn't go in expecting Oblivion of Fallout 3 but something more akin to amovie or a visual novel where the story unfolds and I occassionally push buttons.
His review as broken down into parts:
1. Complains about the repetitiveness of FF story elements, this isn't a point against it because it wouldnt be final fantasy without these basics appearing soemwhere and starting on a train is pretty much better then starting in an Inn/Tavern so where's the complaint?
2. Complains about the camera/cinematics; I personally am enjoying the cinematics, its like watching a well acted english dub anime.
3. Complains about not being allowed to control the fight in the opening cinematic, this would have been valid had the game actually continued with this Devil May Cry style but to me it showed "this is how the character fights" and then blows our minds when in the actual battle you can kinda make your character do the same things in a nearly perfect blend of gameplay and story.
4. Coconuts.
5. Complains about the usual mix of FF character archetypes kinda like BBlade but to me they're just anime archetypes and the link to previous games to my mind was probably added as last minute tinkering in the development cycle to add some mythology nods.
6. vanille being cooky is spot on but to me it made her enigmatic as a form of probably foreshadowing.
7. "WTF are these people?" Invalid as these are the kind of questions dear boy you find out by playing the game and are thus slowly unvieled overtime, you cant just expect every character to exposition their entire backstory in the first 5 minutes this doesn't even happen in well rp'ed D&D games why should it be any different in a game!?
8. Claims legitmacy by previously "liking" the older titles but this lacks muster with me due to the nostalgia filter about the whole thing, for you see I actually go back periodically to replay some of the older games a bit and to me I see no visible difference in story or substance between the games just the graphics budget.
9. "Why dont we have a game where we press one button that bonks an enemy on the head!?" If we wanted that then we would play Oblivion.
10. Badly designed interface bla blah: Not sure what game hes been playing but to me this is the simplest interface I had in a long while, several things are streamlined like potions which work on the whole party now instead of having to choose whom gets it.
11. Complains about the transition: Wouldn't be FF without it, had it since FF1 tbh.
12. Harps on the names, again wouldn't be FF without the idiosyncric names. "Vicks and Wedge" for example.
13. Hope, kinda funny but since he hasn;t played as long as me he doesn't see how the battles he is in are a slow character development for him to become more self assured.
And sure hes in the battles but I've never noticed him as being nearly as effect as Vanille.
14. "Player as little as possible" Bhwa, are we playing the same game? I am constantly having to both button mashing and thinking in each battle now that the paradigm system kicked in.
15. "padding" The pacing I felt after the first hour or so felt just about right to me and sucked in enough of my attention and with my digging the story thus far that to me the pacing is just right and I am kinda weirdly enjoying the lack of exposition, at most they speak maybe for like 15 seconds at any one time speaking at length and the rest is out of breath exclaimations and one linners each one little by little adding to the story that I have yet to be bored by an overlylong cutscene explaining things.
16. Probably the only valid criticism that I had already mentioned earlier is that sometimes I got more information (or confirmed information) in the text logs then ingame itself.
17. "Only gets good 20 hours in" Exaggerations aside I am finding the game good right now so this is subjective. But in principle a game that 'sucks' for 20 hours and then theoretically gets good I would agree is not a point in its favor.
But to me that isn't FFXIII.
18. "Too colorful"
More on the juggling act dissonance again, first he complains games are too brown and grey and now its too colourful make up your mind.
19. "Characters unlikeable" Thus far I have yet to encounter a single one that I "disliked" (except Lightning sometimes) and as a common story writing tip it is automatically hands down better to have a character be unlikeable then to feel nothing at all.
To me: Lightning: Switches between Cool Action Girl and "B*tch". Snow: I am definatelly getting the "WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE!?" and "YOUR DRILL WILL PIERCE THE HEAVENS!" vibe from. (Kamina from Gurren Lagann) Vanille: Whnever her dialogue doesn't go TOO far down the cutsey Kawaii route her dissonance, lovely accent and enigmatic nature to me only makes her interesting like having a benevelent G-Man on your team. Hope: Yeah hes kinda whiny but hes the "Sosuke Revenge Obsessed" kinda of character and since I predicted his characterization right off the bat from nothing more then a vibe when his mother died I am rolling with it. Sazz: Hes hilarious polar opposite of Uncle Ruckus what's not to love?
Thats all the characters I have thus far and I think their well rounded, already point towards some hidden depths and I am probably going to end up actually finishing this game something I probably havent done in a long time and worth my money.
My only complaint is replayability as 60$ is alot of money now that I think about it and if I am gonna buy rather then rent a game I want to be able to keep playing it.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Stating X is So because of Y's Opinion is appeal to authority
Then it's a good thing that I didn't actually do that.
quote:Basically Yahtzee's review of FFXIII is invalid because of its lack of objectivity,
If that's what makes it invalid, then you've pretty much invalidated your own 'review' twice over.
Though I am happy to hear that FFXIII is like super incredibly awesome like it was of course going to be in your review. Or something.
So I guess we can just close this thread and default to the only review anywhere which is "objective."
quote:Firstly no one asked you to post here and frankly you should have known better then to do so
You're silly. No one asked you to post here either. I post here because I want to and felt like expressing the fact that I individually was left uninterested in this game in less than a half an day of gameplay.
Got a problem with that?
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
I was about to talk about how asking a reviewer to be "objective" is ridiculous but then Samp beat me to it with his link.
So... there's no reason for this post to even exist! I wonder if it will vanish when I hit "Add Reply"
Edit: It didn't.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
The Post That Is But Never Was
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Parkour:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Essentially FFXIII just earned +100 points, 198 points remaining.
What a levelheaded and trustworthy review scheme.
Dude you've never been anything other then an ass every time you post in my threads.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Though I am happy to hear that FFXIII is like super incredibly awesome like it was of course going to be in your review. Or something.
Or maybe you could do the world a favor by shutting your goddamn mouth, dude I like stuff, and I like talking about how I like stuff, so far all you've done in waltz in here and shit over everything and continued your usual passive aggressive baiting tactics.
Proof:
quote:I may be undercutting the "Moment By Moment Most Objective View of the Gaming Experience" but
Your comment was not required, asked for, or appreciated, your entire contribution to the thread can be summarized as "this game sucks, kthxbai" drive by posting that lacks substances, objectivity, or honesty.
[ July 18, 2010, 01:18 AM: Message edited by: Blayne Bradley ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:You're silly. No one asked you to post here either. I post here because I want to and felt like expressing the fact that I individually was left uninterested in this game in less than a half an day of gameplay.
Got a problem with that?
Yes, because I am uninterested in your opinions as merely a vehcal for your passive-aggressive snarky one liners in your quest to be the internets perfect troll.
Go away, your presence is unwelcome here as you'll just be snarky, unconstructive and mocking.
I know how this will go, straight down so you have the option of stopping that by ceasing and desisting.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank: I was about to talk about how asking a reviewer to be "objective" is ridiculous but then Samp beat me to it with his link.
So... there's no reason for this post to even exist! I wonder if it will vanish when I hit "Add Reply"
Edit: It didn't.
A reviewer can be objective the same way a book editor can be constructive, recognizing that you have your tastes and other people have theres, Yahtzee lost this when he pretty much pointed at the entire genre of visual novels, sound novels, jrpgs, anime, anything he doesn't like as slop, at least he used to admit "yeah I don't like JRPGs but then again people do, so try out this game because I think as JRPGs go is pretty interesting" in regards to The World Ends with You.
People Have Their Own Unique Tastes, something isn't automatically bad if it doesn't.
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
Final Fantasy 8 sucks.
[ July 18, 2010, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: umberhulk ]
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Blayne: Please calm down a bit so you aren't joggling my profanity meter so much. Thanks a bunch.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Blayne, it's much better to have a reviewer who admits his biases, so you can listen accordingly. I think JRPGs are, largely, a bunch of boring trash. I know Ben Croshaw agrees. So if he says a JRPG is good I might try it. If he says it's trash... well, okay then.
I actually enjoy "realistic" shooters. Ben Croshaw is sick to death of them. So I know if he reviews one and says it's boring trash, I should take that with a helping of salt.
It is only when you know a reviewers biases that they become useful to you.
You, however, slavishly follow whatever nerd icon you've attached yourself to (see your insane defense of Last Airbender despite not having seen it, based entirely on the review of Escapist's MovieBob.) I recall that at some point in the past you had attached yourself to Ben Croshaw. So now, his opinion of JRPGs feels like a betrayal, like a personal attack.
You worshipped Croshaw and crappy Japanese games both, but now they were at odds, and you couldn't cope with the dissonance that created. Luckily, one of your loves proved stronger (probably because crappy Japanese games go hand in hand with crappy Japanese anime, and put together that's a large chunk of your likes, whereas Croshaw is just one man.) So you've abandoned Croshaw.
I suggest returning to him, but applying critical thinking while you watch his reviews. If he says something you disagree with... that's okay! We don't always agree with those we love.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Blayne? I am "uninterested in your opinions as merely a vehcal for your passive-aggressive snarky one liners in your quest to be the internets perfect troll.
Go away, your presence is unwelcome here as you'll just be snarky, unconstructive and mocking."
---
More importantly, umberhalk? If you dislike FF8, I have a great review of it here.
0Megabyte: You agreed not to post anything, "...abusive,...hateful, harassing,..." So please hold to your end of the agreement. I think it's in poor taste to go into a thread somebody else made and tell them to leave.
Blayne: Don't get all bent out of shape and vent if you read 0Megabyte's post.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Yes. Of course, I merely copied and pasted Blayne's words from a few posts back. I find his words in poor taste, so I threw them back at him. I didn't change his words at all.
What I did was naturally in poor taste as well, and I won't repeat it, but I hope you can read a few posts above me. I checked, and he hasn't deleted it.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:Though I am happy to hear that FFXIII is like super incredibly awesome like it was of course going to be in your review. Or something.
Or maybe you could do the world a favor by shutting your goddamn mouth, dude I like stuff, and I like talking about how I like stuff, so far all you've done in waltz in here and shit over everything and continued your usual passive aggressive baiting tactics.
Proof:
quote:I may be undercutting the "Moment By Moment Most Objective View of the Gaming Experience" but
Your comment was not required, asked for, or appreciated, your entire contribution to the thread can be summarized as "this game sucks, kthxbai" drive by posting that lacks substances, objectivity, or honesty.
What I have done is offered up my own individual perspective that the game was fundamenally uninteresting to me based on the way it presents itself, and I did plenty to explain why.
You've summarily flipped out in response, saddled me with accusations of fallacy which are irrelevant and make no sense and yet again show that you don't even really understand how to wield them, but will instead reflexively use them whenever someone dares to disagree with you on issues you are obsessed with to excess.
All intertwined with this absolutely nonsensical accusation of how viewpoints (be they mine, or Yahtzee's, or whoever) are invalid because they aren't "objective," when that is both
1. irrelevant to the matter of an opinion on a game, and
2. ironic because you have such an already partial view that you can't honestly expect for your viewpoint to be considered 'objective,' especially not with your obsessional and angry tact.
As for your continued attempts to tell me to go away: don't bother. You're not immune from criticism just because you go out of your way to never respond positively to it. You're being weird and offensive to me in response to me providing my own thoughts on a game, and the least you could do (not that it's anticipated) is TRY to be an adult about it.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Also, this:
quote:so far all you've done in waltz in here and shit over everything and continued your usual passive aggressive baiting tactics
should be dealt with appropriately, unless blayne gets a free pass for swearing and verbal abuse.
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
I've already indicated Blayne needs to knock it off. I don't write out everything I'm doing when I handle a situation.
Asking people to delete or edit their posts is something I'm fine with doing. I'd appreciate it if people did it themselves though. I don't wish to establish a pattern of frequently seizing posts and making them conform with a rule-set. You're all adults, if Blayne ignores the rules he'll experience the consequences alone. There's no excuse for posters breaking protocols simply because somebody else does.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
:3
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Understood. I won't do something like that again.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank: Blayne, it's much better to have a reviewer who admits his biases, so you can listen accordingly. I think JRPGs are, largely, a bunch of boring trash. I know Ben Croshaw agrees. So if he says a JRPG is good I might try it. If he says it's trash... well, okay then.
I actually enjoy "realistic" shooters. Ben Croshaw is sick to death of them. So I know if he reviews one and says it's boring trash, I should take that with a helping of salt.
It is only when you know a reviewers biases that they become useful to you.
You, however, slavishly follow whatever nerd icon you've attached yourself to (see your insane defense of Last Airbender despite not having seen it, based entirely on the review of Escapist's MovieBob.) I recall that at some point in the past you had attached yourself to Ben Croshaw. So now, his opinion of JRPGs feels like a betrayal, like a personal attack.
You worshipped Croshaw and crappy Japanese games both, but now they were at odds, and you couldn't cope with the dissonance that created. Luckily, one of your loves proved stronger (probably because crappy Japanese games go hand in hand with crappy Japanese anime, and put together that's a large chunk of your likes, whereas Croshaw is just one man.) So you've abandoned Croshaw.
I suggest returning to him, but applying critical thinking while you watch his reviews. If he says something you disagree with... that's okay! We don't always agree with those we love.
Who says I abandoned Croshaw? I've been merely jogged into a more realistic assessement, hilarious reviews (even the FFXIII one after rewatching it after playing the game to a point) but shouldn't be taken seriously as an actual reviewer, hes a critic thats limited to a 5 minute interval that needs to be comedic first informative second, if and when I want him to be more elaborative and objective that's when I read "Extra Punctuation".
But regardless
"All reviews are subjective personal opinions and if you really enjoyed a game then a negative opinion shouldn't get to you." - Yahtzee.
And his review didn't I found it funny if a bit exaggerated but I know his biases.
And no a reviewer doesn't become magically objective by being willing to admit his biases its doing so constructively, saying "I didn't like this car chase but that's not my thing" is not "car chases suck, I hate car chases".
The first isn't as funny, (or at least apparantly post-new intro theme anyways).
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Blayne, I didn't say reviewers become objective by admitting their biases. I said they become useful. Every reviewer has biases, but if they obfuscate those biases and present themselves as wholly objective, they are lying to you and, possibly, themselves. They just make it harder to get useful information from their review, because you have to try and decipher their biases yourself.
If they are honest about their biases, you can much more easily take useful information from their reviews. I find this extends to many other fields where people harp on supposed objectivity or lack thereof, like reporting and even scientific studies.
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
Also, Xlll is harder if your always going for 5 stars, which forces you to let your hp go down so you can attack as much as possible. Just saying.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Chapter 11 Blayne...Just get to Chapter 11...
As far as Final Fantasy 8's T-Rex, there was a trick to killing it. I don't remember why but it was worth killing it a few times. I think it gave some pretty good AP at the start.
Back to XIII. It was not the best Final Fantasy, but I enjoyed it. The game was really good from Chapter 11 on, as it had more of an MMO feel to it. It felt sort of like XII but with a ton of fun sidemissions.
JRPG's have been lacking lately, though there have been some gems. Resonance of Fate was amazing, as was Demon's Souls. I am waiting for Valkyria Chronicles 2 on the PSP, I am sure that will be good. Other than that lately most of them have been crap.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Chapter 11 was pretty epic, this is true. I think this is where I admit that I still haven't finished all of the sidemissions - a friend loaned me Dragon Age and I haven't really gone back from there yet.
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
In all seriousness, RPGs get better the more you play because you have more choices and better enemy variety.
There are exceptions, like Baten Kaitos origins, which is more enjoyable just 7 - 20 hrs in than most RPGs. But by hour 35 it stagnates.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
You could always try Mother 3. Valkyria Chronicles doesnt count as a JRPG its more turn based strategy game.
Posted by Herblay (Member # 11834) on :
I felt that XIII was a significant departure from the FF series. It's linearity and heavy use of cutscenes were rather reminiscent of the PS3 Metal Gear. Unlike Metal Gear, however, I felt that it was a little bit "walk from point A to point B, fight two enemies, cutscene, repeat". I was fairly entertained with a weekend rental, but I won't return to it.
I thought that the strongest entries in the series were IV and IX. They were story heavy, but made you feel like you were a part of the story. XIII made me feel like I was performing repetitive tasks in order to watch the next movie cutscene. I didn't feel involved in the story.
I was rather disappointed with X as well. After playing through (nearly) the whole game, I was in the final area with the airship. I hadn't had a problem with difficulty, but I'd played through paying no attention to grinding or sidequests. All of a sudden, I was massively under-leveled and couldn't complete without gaining about 20 levels in grinding. I put the game down and hadn't touched FF again until XIII.
I might be getting burned out due to some of the newer RPGs. From Deus Ex to KOTOR, I feel that an auto-leveling of enemies much more fun than the old-school grinding approach. I acknowledge that a game can be a grinder and be entertaining (FF IV, Chronotrigger, Illusion of Gaia, etc), but it takes a very fine eye for balance. An eye that Square hasn't had in years (since FF VII or FF IX, depending on your taste).
I feel that XIII is more closely related to Final Fantasy Tactics than to one of the titles in the main series. Maybe that changes somewhere after 20+ hours into the game. . . .
Posted by Ecthalion (Member # 8825) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herblay: I was rather disappointed with X as well. After playing through (nearly) the whole game, I was in the final area with the airship. I hadn't had a problem with difficulty, but I'd played through paying no attention to grinding or sidequests. All of a sudden, I was massively under-leveled and couldn't complete without gaining about 20 levels in grinding. I put the game down and hadn't touched FF again until XIII.
Hmmm... i found X to be too easy. I did however have this Problem with XIII. I was cruising through this game until i got to Fang and Vialle's village. After several battles where i was unsucessfull i decided to progress backwards and level up for a few hours.
quote:I might be getting burned out due to some of the newer RPGs. From Deus Ex to KOTOR, I feel that an auto-leveling of enemies much more fun than the old-school grinding approach. I acknowledge that a game can be a grinder and be entertaining (FF IV, Chronotrigger, Illusion of Gaia, etc), but it takes a very fine eye for balance. An eye that Square hasn't had in years (since FF VII or FF IX, depending on your taste).
I liked FFVIII for the progressive beast development. Of course there was also The Island Closest to Hell that solved the grind problem real quick.
quote:I feel that XIII is more closely related to Final Fantasy Tactics than to one of the titles in the main series. Maybe that changes somewhere after 20+ hours into the game. . . .
It doesnt really change except for expanded crystatiums, extra action gauges and slightly more paradigm combos. I felt like this game failed to deliver what i expect from a good RPG (more specifically what i expect from FF) but i did like some of the new the ideas. It seems to me that this can be molded into a really good game. Considering past FF titles though i doubt they are going to use this as a platform to build off of.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Just started playing this yesterday. I think it's my first new RPG since...Quest 64? Something like that. It's been awhile.
And I miss the old RPGs.
Anyway, this doesn't seem awful yet, but neither am I particularly impressed. I think I'm on Chapter 4 or 5.
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
Lightning is hot though. I came through my nose the first time I saw her.
Also, just bought a ps2. Gonna play Persona 3 or FF12 soon.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by umberhulk: Lightning hot though. I came through my nose the first time I saw her.
hahahahahahaha
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
I was like. Aaa aaach aaaach chuching!
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I briefly mourned the lack of male eye candy, then I started killing things again. Lightning is pretty hot, though.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
) that this was going to happen so I ain't complaining.