I consider myself a safe driver. I keep both hands on the steering wheel, keep an eye on the road, and drive the speed limit.
That being said, I sometimes receive texts on my iphone. I work in the payroll industry, and many of my clients have my cell phone number. Sometimes I'll pull my phone out and see who text me and if needs be I will dial their number. I usually won't text them back because I have found that it does impair my driving, but if I am alone on the road, then hey, why not.
This morning I pulled into my office and the parking lot was empty. I received a text a few minutes before but did not have a chance to read it because I was on the freeway. I read the text quickly and put the phone back in my shirt pocket.
I got out of my car and started towards the door to my office building, and a lady from across the parking lot yelled at me to get my attention. We have an Art Institute near us so I thought maybe she was a lost student. The conversation went something like this:
Me: "Good morning! Can I help you?"
Lady: "I just want to let you know that I saw you texting while driving. I should get your license plate and report you to the police!"
Me: "Ummm....Excuse me?"
Lady: "I don't want to report you to the police but I will if you keep doing it."
Me: (Getting frustrated) "I don't know if you just moved her Ma'am, but there are no laws against texting while driving in Nevada."
Lady: "I'll call the police and report you."
(At this point I lost my cool)
Me: "Tell you what, let's go ahead and call them together. You can report me, and I can laugh when they tell you that I was right. Then maybe I can ask them if there is a law against people that dont mind their own business."
Lady: "Just don't let me catch you doing it again."
Me: "I really hope you do catch me doing it again. In fact, if I'm ever driving and you are in front of me, I'll make it a point to pull out my phone and text."
She gave me a dirty look then walked off. If I had been driving erratically or been on the road, I could understand her frustration. I was in an empty parking lot.
Have you ever had an experience with people like this, and how do you usually handle it? I didn't want to be rude and show her my middle finger, but I couldn't believe that the lady had the nerve to even approach me.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
You weren't completely clear there. When did you read/reply to your text, exactly? When you were driving in the parking lot? After you were already parked?
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
In New York it is illegal.
I actually don't think either of you did anything wrong, at least initially. From your perspective, you were giving the phone a quick glance before getting onto the road. But the woman didn't know that. I know plenty of people who text while driving in the middle of New York City intersections, who know perfectly well they are being foolish but do it anyway because the risk just feels so small.
Frankly I don't think there's anything wrong with going up to someone who appears to be doing something unsafe and telling them so. The things I consider the woman to have done wrong had less to do with what she was doing but how effectively she was doing so. On the flipside, you responded in what, honestly, sounded kinda childish, exactly like the sort of person who normally texts in all kinds of unsafe situations and has no intention of ever stopping.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
I guess technically reading a text is different from texting anyways.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Potential traffic hazards (not saying that you were) would, IMO, fall under the heading of everyone's business.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
That is the thing. At first I tried to be nice. When I checked my phone, I was at a complete stop waiting for the person in front of me to finish parking. They had to pull back out 3 times before they got their car in there straight. I think it may have been the same lady.
I was stopped for about 30 seconds, and literally 5 of those seconds were spent reading the text. I didn't reply to the text , I simply read it.
I tried to be nice to her at first, until she threatened to call the police. After I pointed out to her that there is no law in Nevada she threatened me again.
I don't text while I'm driving. Even though it is not illegal, it is VERY hard to do so on an Iphone. On my old G-1 phone I could without a problem because it had an actual keyboard that I could use with one hand without looking down, and even then I wouldn't do it often. If I am stopped at a light or if there are no cars around on a back street, I may take a quick glance if someone messages me, but I won't reply until my car is off or I am parked.
My problem with the lady was not that she approached me, but that she threatened me with police action. Had she simply come up and said "I noticed you were texting while driving, and there are a lot of accidents caused by doing it" I would have been fine with it.
Posted by airmanfour (Member # 6111) on :
I didn't notice any expletives or name calling. Very impressive.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
I'm confused. If the parking lot was empty, why would you need to wait for anyone to finish parking?
My initial reaction is that this seems to be a grey-area, we have anti-non-handsfree phone use laws here*. The recommended best practice is to stop somewhere, but not necessarily to formally park.
(Although, they don't IIRC apply to parking lots on private property)
Separately, I think both could have handled it (the conversation) better.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
The thing is, whether you were trying to be nice, nothing you said indicated that you understood the danger of driving while texting, or that you intended to not do it in the future. From the perspective of the woman (i.e. any other driver out there who could be in danger from someone driving poorly), "nice" is irrelevant.
In that situation (and others like it) I usually just say "I'm sorry." Anything else is honestly superfluous. If you had a good excuse for doing someone in one particular instance, the other person won't be able to tell if the excuse is genuine or not.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
My sister once got approached at a red light because of her terrible driving, and because the person couldn't believe that "...a member of MENSA..." could be such an horrible, reckless driver.
My sister had borrowed my father's car at the time, which had a MENSA license plate holder.
She was quite amused at having to explain that she wasn't the smart one in the family.
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
The inconsistency MattP pointed out makes me wonder how honestly you've described the situation. But if it happened exactly as you said it did in your op, then I think you were justified in responding the way you did. Yeah, you could have just let it go, but threatening to call the police on you was dumb, and I can completely understand being irritated by that.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:When I checked my phone, I was at a complete stop waiting for the person in front of me to finish parking.
quote:the parking lot was empty.
umm
/edit n/m, beaten to it =)
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
What else were you lying about? Were you performing surgery while driving too? I should report you to the medical police!
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
You should have told her exactly what you told us: "I don't text while driving, I was simply reading a text while waiting for someone to finish parking. I agree with you that texting while driving is dangerous and there is certainly no need for you to call the police on me."
Texting while driving IS ridiculously dangerous and I think she was right to point that out. Of course she did it a little rudely, but you might as just well just be polite in reponse.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: I'm confused. If the parking lot was empty, why would you need to wait for anyone to finish parking?
My initial reaction is that this seems to be a grey-area, we have anti-non-handsfree phone use laws here*. The recommended best practice is to stop somewhere, but not necessarily to formally park.
(Although, they don't IIRC apply to parking lots on private property)
Separately, I think both could have handled it (the conversation) better.
Let me get something out of the way since it is a hangup for some of you. The place I work is huge complex. There are probably over a hundred businesses housed in the complex. As such, there are THOUSANDS of cars that are parked there every day. When I say empty, I do not mean there are absolutely no cars other than mine in the parking lot, I mean there is a very large amount of empty spaces. Perhaps 3-5% of the spots were taken. There are also a lot of what we call "islands" scattered throughout the parking lot that have shrubs, bushes, and trees planted. When someone parks, there isn't a space large enough to drive around them, you have to wait until they are done pulling in. While the parking lot was what I consider to be empty, I still had to wait for the car to pull in completely before I could turn into the section of the parking lot where people from my office park.
To Raymond, I feel that I shouldn't HAVE to explain anything to the lady. It isn't her business. I didn't do anything illegal, and so she had no right to approach and threaten me in the way she did. As I said before, had she approached me in a different manner, she would have gotten a different response. Instead of nicely talking to me however, I got a very rude and ignorant reprimand. Since she didn't want to talk to me with respect, she wasn't getting any from me.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Are you really upset that she stuck her nose where you don't think it belonged, or that she did so in a rude manner?
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Both. Stay out of my business. If you do decide to get involved and I haven't wronged you in any way, at least do it with respect.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I believe she thinks that unsafe driving wrongs everyone on the road, including her.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Well, I'm going to disagree that it's purely your business. You appeared to have been doing something, legal or not, which is dangerous to others.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I strongly disagree that it is only your business.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Perhaps you can explain what is dangerous about reading a text for five seconds while sitting in a car that is not moving, and how this gives her a right to involve herself with me?
That being said, if I WERE moving while reading the text I would agree with you. This would present a present danger. A stopped car does not.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: Both. Stay out of my business.
Just FYI, it isn't just 'your business.' Not any more so than that is your parking lot you were on at the time.
Also, your original description of what you do counts entirely as distracted driving, which does increase the risk of a crash significantly. People pulling out their phones to read them while driving has the outcome you might think.
You shouldn't care a bit about whether or not it's against the law, especially when you shouldn't do it anyway and when injury lawyers can still gouge you for major settlements when distracted driving is reported as being part of the cause of a crash.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Samprimary,
You must not have read the part where I stated (3 times now?) that I was in an unmoving vehicle at the time. Stopped. Completely. Essentially parked.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I read that. I said 'your original description of what you do,' not what you went on to describe what you got criticized for. this:
quote:That being said, I sometimes receive texts on my iphone. I work in the payroll industry, and many of my clients have my cell phone number. Sometimes I'll pull my phone out and see who text me and if needs be I will dial their number. I usually won't text them back because I have found that it does impair my driving, but if I am alone on the road, then hey, why not.
It's an FYI. Don't do this.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
quote:Perhaps you can explain what is dangerous about reading a text for five seconds while sitting in a car that is not moving, and how this gives her a right to involve herself with me?
That being said, if I WERE moving while reading the text I would agree with you. This would present a present danger. A stopped car does not.
The issue is that there's a lot of people who text while driving. I don't know offhand what the statistics are for how many people ONLY EVER text while sitting in a parked car, but I'm willing to bet that 9 times out of 10, if you see someone texting in a car that is not moving, there's a good chance they might text in a more dangerous place some other time in their life. (As Sam notes, you DO engage in behavior that is dangerous to some degree).
I absolutely would rather live in a world where someone occasionally tells me I am driving badly (even if I am not), if it means that there are fewer people driving unsafely. My only disagreement with the woman is that because she spoke rudely, you were less likely to listen to her.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Perhaps you can explain what is dangerous about reading a text for five seconds while sitting in a car that is not moving...
Like I said, regardless of how safe you were, you appeared to have been doing something dangerous.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I disagree -- pretty strongly -- that it actually WASN'T dangerous. If the vehicle's engine is on, you have NO business reading or sending texts. Period. And doing so makes you a danger to everyone around you, and that WAS her business. Which doesn't make threatening you ok or a good way to handle it.
Your punishment for this behavior is being sentenced to read Traffic. Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Hatrack has spoken: you were wrong. Don't text in the car unless you're actually parked.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Oh, baloney.
If you're not moving, there's no actual danger in it. Just make sure you're REALLY not moving.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
YOU are also sentenced to read Traffic.
Actually, everyone should read it! It's a really interesting (and sobering) book!
Posted by shadowland (Member # 12366) on :
Eh, I wonder if she would have made as big of a fuss over the issue if you had been changing a CD instead of checking your phone.
I think the problem is that many times people associate a specific activity with distracted driving instead of associating distracted driving with, well, actual distracted driving.
I've found that a lot of people feel very strongly about any type of cell phone use while in a car, so I tend to usually just try to avoid any discussion with strangers on the matter altogether. Based on your description, I think the lady's actions were a bit rude, but as was mentioned earlier, most of what you said back to her was probably a waste of effort.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
Well, in a completely ironic twist of events, I was waiting in the parking lot after work behind a long line of cars waiting to get out of the complex, and a car backed up right into me. It didn't hit me hard but I now have a dent near my front left head light. It is a 13 year old car and the dent can be hammered out, so no big deal.
Even more ironic was that it was the same lady, and she was talking on her cell phone at the time she backed into me. Her eyes went kind of wide when she saw who she backed into, and I had to laugh. I told her not to worry about it since it was such an old car and the dent really wasn't that bad. She apologized to me for the way she spoke in the morning and I did as well. I didn't call the police since I didn't feel it was that big of a deal.
So we made up. I got a dent in my car, but it was well worth it. Sometimes I think God/Fate/Karma/The Flying Spaghetti Monster has a sense of humor.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Seriously? That's pretty funny.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Geraine: Imagine if you were in your car, waiting for a spot to open up, reading a text, and somebody in front of you starts backing up towards you. Because you are looking at your phone you can't honk your horn or attempt to get out of the way.
Having said that, that lady's behavior really makes me mad. Not because she was wrong about texting, but because she's a bleeding hypocrite.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: Even more ironic was that it was the same lady, and she was talking on her cell phone at the time she backed into me.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I'll see if I can take a picture of the dent and upload it to photobucket.
It was one of those coincidences that I thought only happened in movies, I couldn't help but laugh. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I remember chatting with my wife, who was then my new girlfriend, as we pulled up into an intersection. She had just observed that some of my anecdotes were pretty out there, and I was animatedly complaining about it. "I know!" I said, waving my hands in exasperation. "I don't know why, but weird stuff just happens around me. I don't think I'm excessively weird, but, well, maybe I just notice....Wait. Is there anyone driving that car?"
Rolling down a hill and through the intersection in front of me was a driverless car.
I threw on my blinkers, told her, "I'll be right back," and ran out to catch the car. I was able to stop it before it rolled into the next intersection, and was joined by a college kid who managed to jimmy the door open; once able to turn the wheel, we muscled it back into a parking spot, threw the parking brake, and left a note on the windshield explaining why the car had been moved.
I returned to my car, apologized, and said, "So, like I was saying, this sort of thing just happens."
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Posted by Tammy (Member # 4119) on :
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
That's frickin brilliant.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
The thing is, I think it's just the ONE story Tom has. So much for "always happens around me". Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Geraine, that's hilarious. I guess the dent is a small price to pay for having a great story to tell about it.
Rivka, I'm not trying to challenge you or split hairs, but is it actually the engine being on that's the issue? Or is it texting while not-being-in-park (even if you're stopped) that's the problem?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
To Geraine and the OP:
I don't think you did anything particularly wrong. Some might call it a slippery slope, but I don't see a problem with people making firm separations between what they consider acceptable and unacceptable behavior involving specific instances of a specified activity. I NEVER text while actually driving. Sometimes I will read a message when stopped at a red light, but not often. I've texted while sitting in my car, sometimes with the engine on, lots of times. It's not even a blip on the safety radar of unacceptable activity.
I'd call reading a text while driving questionable. I suppose it depends on the length of the text, but really, it's no different from fumbling with the radio for 5 seconds.
Sounds like it all worked out for the best.
Tom - Hilarious. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Why would one leave the engine on while in park?
Lyr, studies say it IS different than messing with the radio. Go read the book!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Maybe I just like the soothing sound.
No, usually I'll either get into my car, turn it on, and get a text, so I'll text back. Or I'll pull into a spot and text someone back quickly but I might forget to turn the engine off right away. I don't generally leave the car on if I don't have to.
I might have to check out that book. I just read a couple of snippets and a couple things look interesting, and a couple things run counter to what I've read in other places.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Stipulated: If you are going to leave your engine on for no reason, it doesn't count for the purposes of my statement.
However, we may have to have a chat about the environmental impact. Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
I'd call reading a text while driving questionable. I suppose it depends on the length of the text, but really, it's no different from fumbling with the radio for 5 seconds.
Very true, and sometimes overlooked, I think. People seem to have a tendency to demonize cell phone use specifically.
I remember a conversation I once had, several years ago, with a police officer who was giving a talk about the dangers of cell phone use. He said that studies had shown that even using a handsfree headset cell phone significantly impaired the driver's concentration. He was in favor of outlawing even headset cell use while driving.
I asked how using a headset compared to a driver having a conversation with a real live person in the car with him, but he didn't have an answer. I'm curious, if the two are comparable, how many people would favor outlawing talking to a passenger too.
My guess is, even amongst those that are generally proponents of this sort of nanny state intrusion you wouldn't get too many takers.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank: I asked how using a headset compared to a driver having a conversation with a real live person in the car with him
Poorly.
READ THE BOOK.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I didn't realize the entire book was available to read online.
Damn you rivka, it's interesting and I'm getting sucked in, but I have 50 pages of articles about the relationship between literature and legal studies to read before my first class tomorrow.
... ... ...
::goes back to reading Traffic::
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I didn't realize the entire book was available to read online.
The whole thing? I had no idea.
Go read your articles. THEN read Traffic.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I went to look for it on Amazon, and on a lark (because I rarely do this) I clicked the "look inside" button to preview the book, and the whole thing is available.
I've never seen that before.
I'll finish the chapter then go read my boring articles.
Edit to add: Okay, maybe it isn't the WHOLE thing. Page 14, inexplicably, is missing.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It was her business, but she did it abominably rudely. She was fine with approaching you, and you were fine and more than justified with telling her to take a hike.
The right to approach people doesn't mean immunity from consequences for doing it badly.
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
In answer to the question about why someone would have their engine on (although parked) while engaging in an activity that would be hazardous while driving: I often go through fast food drive-throughs for a meal, then park somewhere and eat while reading. If the weather or temperature warrants it, I keep the engine on to maintain the air conditioning or heat for comfort. I would eat while driving, but I don't read while driving.
Sometimes I talk on my cell phone while driving - ironically, sometimes it's to call law enforcement and narc out someone I consider is engaging in even more risky behavior. Examples: unrestrained children in the car (for the kids' protection), once for someone driving on the wrong side of the road, once for a woman riding on the toolbox in the back of a pickup in a 45-mph zone, once for a vehicle that was going 45 in a 55-mph zone during no passing zone but speeding up where passing was allowed, causing the car behind it (but in front of me) to pass on the shoulder.
But to balance that, I do try to drive responsibly. (My driving motto is I drive like an old woman so I can be one.) I use cruise control to maintain my speed at the speed limit (within 1-2 miles above sometimes). I pull into the left lane where an off-ramp meets the highway I usually take into town because I've seen too many people come off that off-ramp and just pull onto the highway without stopping and often without looking - yes, I've seen accidents there. I use my turn signals to indicate that I'm changing lanes or turning - and I've seen many people who can't grasp that concept. I've got a whole list of things other people do while driving (or how they park badly, but that's another topic) that annoy me but I usually say bad things about them in the privacy of my car - I don't race after them and I don't (usually) get out of my car to tell them how to drive. (Well, except that one time when I explained to the out-of-staters that "in Iowa, when you are at an intersection in the lane with an arrow pointing left, you have to turn left there, not go straight and cut off the person in the other lane who has the right of way." I would have honked, but that car's horn was nonfunctional.)
Well, that was fun. I'll go back to lurking now. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Lyr, it looks like Google and Amazon's previews are each about 70% complete. Just enough to get you hooked, I guess. Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote:I asked how using a headset compared to a driver having a conversation with a real live person in the car with him, but he didn't have an answer. I'm curious, if the two are comparable, how many people would favor outlawing talking to a passenger too.
I don't have a link, but they were talking about this on NPR the other day with somebody who's performed studies on the subject. He said that it was different because when you actually have somebody in the car, they are attentive to the road as well. If something scary is happening on the road, they stop talking until the conditions don't require the driver's full attention. Somebody on the other side of the cell phone does not do this.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I'm suspect the odds are good that they were actually interviewing the author of Traffic. Anyway, he cites several studies on the subject, including that one.
Seriously. READ THE BOOK.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amanecer:
quote:I asked how using a headset compared to a driver having a conversation with a real live person in the car with him, but he didn't have an answer. I'm curious, if the two are comparable, how many people would favor outlawing talking to a passenger too.
I don't have a link, but they were talking about this on NPR the other day with somebody who's performed studies on the subject. He said that it was different because when you actually have somebody in the car, they are attentive to the road as well. If something scary is happening on the road, they stop talking until the conditions don't require the driver's full attention. Somebody on the other side of the cell phone does not do this.
I think there is more to it than that. I've noticed, particularly when I'm speaking a second language or speaking with someone with a strong dialect or accent, that it is much harder for me to understand people on the phone than it is in person. Listening to someone on the phone takes more effort than listening to them in person. I don't know exactly why, but it does.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:I often go through fast food drive-throughs for a meal, then park somewhere and eat while reading. If the weather or temperature warrants it, I keep the engine on to maintain the air conditioning or heat for comfort. I would eat while driving, but I don't read while driving.
Idling a car for 2 minutes consumes as much gas and produces as much pollution as driving it for 1 mile. Pollution from cars is a significant health problem in any major American city and a major contributor to climate change. Running your car as a heater or air conditioner is harmful. If its too hot or cold to sit in your car comfortably, why not park it and go into the restaurant to eat and read. The drive through window is popular, but most fast food places still have tables inside.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
I don't think anyone who flys should lecture anyone else on their carbon-producing transportation choices.
I say this as someone who regularly flys places.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I threw on my blinkers, told her, "I'll be right back," and ran out to catch the car. I was able to stop it before it rolled into the next intersection, and was joined by a college kid who managed to jimmy the door open; once able to turn the wheel, we muscled it back into a parking spot, threw the parking brake, and left a note on the windshield explaining why the car had been moved.
I returned to my car, apologized, and said, "So, like I was saying, this sort of thing just happens."
Wow, Tom, way to impress a date! So is that when she fell in love w/ you? Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jhai: I don't think anyone who flys should lecture anyone else on their carbon-producing transportation choices.
I say this as someone who regularly flys places.
My carbon footprint brings all the boys to the yard
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jhai: I don't think anyone who flys should lecture anyone else on their carbon-producing transportation choices.
I say this as someone who regularly flys places.
Ad Homenim To quoquo is not a legitimate rebuttal.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
I find it rather amazing that so many folks here think it's fine to lecture and/or scold another, unrelated adult for doing anything at all. I can think of so many reasons to keep my nose out of situations like this and very few (maybe one rather uncharitable one) to butt in.
The main reason I think it's inappropriate is no matter what you think you know about a situation, you can be sure that you really don't know what is going on. In the OP, the woman who approached Geraine thought she saw something that she really didn't see (he wasn't really texting while he was waiting to park). And even if he WAS texting for some reason, it's pretty arrogant to assume that she knew enough about the situation to call him on it. For example, I live in an area that does have a cell phone ban for drivers (all handheld electronics, in fact, are forbidden in my county). And yet, even here, there are exceptions to the law. I suspect that very few of the people on the road who are violating the ban are doing so legally, but who am I to say in every instance?
Also, I think it's rather futile to call a stranger to task for something like this. Unless you have some authority, why should anyone care what some random stranger in a parking lot says? The chances of actually changing a stranger's behavior are very slim, and in today's world, you might just be assaulted for your trouble.
As far as the threat to call the police... well, you gotta do what you gotta do, I suppose. But seriously, even if you call and say "I saw a man in a blue toyota, licence 12345 at the corner of 1st and 3rd texting while he was driving. He was a white guy, about 30 years old with a full beard wearing a green football jersey..." What can the police do with even that specific a complaint? Unless they actually witness the offense, they're not gonna do anything.
Having said all of that, I agree that texting/calling while driving is a despicable practice and no responsible adult should put others at risk that way. Certainly, anyone that I have real influence over will hear from me if I catch them at it. But approaching a stranger? No, even I'm not that arrogant.
_______________
As for sitting in the car while it idles...
I keep an assortment of calibrated thermometers with me for work. Not long ago, I left one in my pants pockets after I was done with it, and when I got to my car, I stuck it in the dash while I put the rest of my things away. After a couple of minutes, the temperature reading was 149F. You'd better believe I keep the car running for the few minutes I'm gathering my things to go into an inspection or putting them away afterwards. Even with a sunshade or parking in the shade, my car gets unbelievably hot. If I didn't have the AC available, there is no way I could do my job effectively.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I find it rather amazing that so many folks here think it's fine to lecture and/or scold another, unrelated adult for doing anything at all.
I think you're mis-reading what a lot of people are saying here.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:I find it rather amazing that so many folks here think it's fine to lecture and/or scold another, unrelated adult for doing anything at all.
I think you're mis-reading what a lot of people are saying here.
I kind of thought it was the whole point of the OP... someone who had no relationship with or authority over Geraine called him on the carpet for something she thought he was doing. Several posters commented that she was right to do so. Including you, Porter. Maybe I am mis-reading, I certainly have before, but it seems pretty clear to me.
<edited to make my meaning clearer>
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by Jhai: I don't think anyone who flys should lecture anyone else on their carbon-producing transportation choices.
I say this as someone who regularly flys places.
Ad Homenim To quoquo is not a legitimate rebuttal.
I didn't make any sort of claim about the truth of your statement. Just the appropriateness of posting it.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I kind of thought it was the whole point of the OP... someone who had no relationship with or authority over Geraine called him on the carpet for something she thought he was doing. Several posters commented that she was right to do so. Including you, Porter. Maybe I am mis-reading, I certainly have before, but it seems pretty clear to me.
One of the points of the OP, including the thread title, is that his texting in his car was none of anybody's business.
I did not say that she was right to do what she did. I said that what he appeared to have been doing, namely texting while driving, is not purely his personal business like he claimed.
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:I often go through fast food drive-throughs for a meal, then park somewhere and eat while reading. If the weather or temperature warrants it, I keep the engine on to maintain the air conditioning or heat for comfort. I would eat while driving, but I don't read while driving.
Idling a car for 2 minutes consumes as much gas and produces as much pollution as driving it for 1 mile. Pollution from cars is a significant health problem in any major American city and a major contributor to climate change. Running your car as a heater or air conditioner is harmful. If its too hot or cold to sit in your car comfortably, why not park it and go into the restaurant to eat and read. The drive through window is popular, but most fast food places still have tables inside.
Well, because I am probably doing this when I have a few minutes before I have to be at work. I get a meal, park somewhere, eat and go right to work. I don't have time to go inside, and I want a little alone time before I have to deal with work issues. I also have to take one daughter to school and pick her up. If I get there early and the temperature warrants it, I'll have the air on (or heat when it gets cold outside). There are just times when I have to be in the car, waiting for some reason, and don't feel like baking or freezing, depending on the weather. And, of course, reading to pass the time.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I find it rather amazing that so many folks here think it's fine to lecture and/or scold another, unrelated adult for doing anything at all.
For the record: I think it's fine (for a given value of "fine") to lecture or scold another unrelated adult for doing something stupid. Those other adults are my peers, not my betters, and I don't need to treat them as if they make their decisions in isolation.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
quote:Also, I think it's rather futile to call a stranger to task for something like this. Unless you have some authority, why should anyone care what some random stranger in a parking lot says?
This is the only point that I consider relevant. If someone appears to be doing something dangerous to others, then I think we have not only a right but an obligation to intervene in some capacity, as long as we make an effort to do so politely.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
For most things, it is the height of rudeness for one adult to lecture another, like lecturing someone for running the AC in their car for 90 seconds. It's mind-boggling that that's okay.
However, the phone in the car in thing is immediately relevant, immediately dangerous, and absolutely terrifying. People have died, horribly, because someone driving near them was on their phone. A lot of people, including some I know.
General self righteousness should be kept to oneself and saved for the blog. But if someone feels in immediate danger, and the person who seems to be impaired is weilding a weapon (like the car), then that's urgent enough to warrant saying something.
But if someone does it rudely/badly, it's okay to tell them to stuff it. They should be so horrified at the necessity of rudeness of lecturing a fellow adult that they don't tip over into self-righteous territory.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:For most things, it is the height of rudeness for one adult to lecture another, like lecturing someone for running the AC in their car for 90 seconds. It's mind-boggling that that's okay.
Posted by shadowland (Member # 12366) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: If someone appears to be doing something dangerous to others, then I think we have not only a right but an obligation to intervene in some capacity, as long as we make an effort to do so politely.
At most I would say that, with the described situation, Geraine reduced his ability to respond to the dangers that others might potentially pose to him. I would not consider that in the same category as "doing something dangerous to others."
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I'm not really talking about Geraine's experience, mostly because it seems a little inconsistent so I suspect we don't have all the information.
I'm talking in general about people texting while driving. It's so not good, and unlike most occasions when people puff themselves up with self-righteousness, the direness of the offense and immediacy of the danger make it okay to say something. Respectfully.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:For most things, it is the height of rudeness for one adult to lecture another...
Nah. I think it's mildly rude, in that it's just presumptuous enough to think that you are qualified to offer unsolicited advice. But I can think of a lot of things that are ruder -- and let's face it, sometimes unsolicited advice is worth it. People should feel free to calculate their own risk scenarios on that one.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Be realistic. There is no nice way to tell someone they are a bad driver. There is no nice way to tell someone they are wasteful. There is no nice way to tell people they are rude or disruptive. In all my life, I cannot remember seeing anyone (adult or child) respond to those kinds of unsolicited criticisms graciously, no matter how they were phrased or timed or who offered the criticism. There maybe better and worse ways to make such a criticism, but there are no really nice ways to do it. No one likes criticism, no matter how politely its phrased.
I've noticed that people tend to get most irate about how "rudely" someone corrected their behavior when there is no real defense for what they've doing. Some years ago my husband was hit by a teenage driver who ran a stop sign. She ran the stop sign intensionally because she wanted to get through the intersection before an ambulance on the cross street passed. She argued (to the police and the insurance) that she should not be cited or held responsible for repairing our car because my husband had "rudely" chewed her out for running the stop sign and hitting our car. Her mother agreed. The police and the insurance companies did not.
But no matter how much people hate to be corrected, it's untenable to ask the rest of society to live with dangerous and destructive behaviors just so no one gets their feelings hurt. In our society, we don't have respected elders to do that job so who should?
Friends are unlikely to step up to the job because they know that no matter how its done it will hurt their friendship (at least for a time). Have you ever had to tell a friend who was climbing into their car that they were too drunk to drive? Have you ever let a friend drive when they probably shouldn't have to avoid the confrontation? Have you ever silently cringed while a friend driving the car did something you thought was dangerous? Have you ever taken two steps backward to avoid telling a friend they had bad breath?
It's not fair to put that job on friends and enemies will be completely ignored, which pretty much leaves strangers to do the dirty work. If "good manners" are those behaviors that make it easier for people to live in harmony, then perhaps we need to accept that being offended by well meaning criticism is the real height of rudeness.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Rabbit said it better than I could.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
There is most certainly a way to do it respectfully and a way to do it rudely.
The content is going to be harsh no matter what. The delivery need not be. It's really sad you don't know that.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
I agree that you should try to be as polite as possible. But it a lot of cases, no matter how polite, people are still going to get defensive. "Excuse me, you may not realize this but texting while driving is extremely dangerous, even if you're not moving" still sounds a little patronizing, and from the way Geraine started the thread, it's pretty clear he still would have considered that "butting into his businesses."
If our benchmark is "it needs to be polite enough that no one gets offended" then no one would ever actually say anything, and people would continue to drive drunk or while texting or whatever. A corollary is that you need to be prepared for people getting offended no matter how polite you try to be.
And in cases like Rabbit's teen driver example, my guess is that the husband was not particularly "polite," and I do not feel he had any particular obligation to be.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Well, that's their perogative. But even if they got defensive anyway, they'll remember, and if you do it politely and it addressed urgent, dangerous behavior, then you're not the jerk.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Fair enough.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:The content is going to be harsh no matter what. The delivery need not be. It's really sad you don't know that.
Katharina, That insult was inaccurate and completely uncalled for. If you deign to speak of the "height of rudeness", you should first take a look in the mirror.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
To be honest, the thing that actually made me mad was the ignorance and the attitude. To threaten someone for doing something that is, while dangerous, not against the law is ignorant.
Had she been nice about the whole thing, I probably would have still been miffed, but would have been a lot more respectful.
Rabbit, I think your husband had every right to chew the girl out. I think there is a difference between his experience and mine though. The girl broke the law AND caused harm. What I did in a stopped car did neither.
Posted by Flying Fish (Member # 12032) on :
Do people have a right to lecture total strangers re: things they observe them doing which are unsafe, inconsiderate, or unwise? Sure.
Do people have a right to feel miffed when someone gives them unsolicited advice re: driving, idling, texting etc., especially when they feel they didn't do anything wrong? Sure.
Do interactions like these sometimes end up with somebody getting punched in the nose, having their cars keyed, or worse yet, a gun being pulled?
Way too often.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: Rabbit, I think your husband had every right to chew the girl out. I think there is a difference between his experience and mine though. The girl broke the law AND caused harm. What I did in a stopped car did neither.
Absolutely Geraine. I wasn't trying to draw an equivalence between that accident and your situation. The point of that story is that people are very intolerant of criticism even when they are very clearly and unarguably in the wrong and that people often feel that the other persons rude response some how lessens the severity of their own error.
I don't think this is what was happening in the event you described. I also don't think reading a text message while stopped in a parking lot is a particularly dangerous thing, but it is very likely more dangerous than we commonly think.
I've also noticed that such situations tend to escalate so that they end rudely even if they are begun in very civil tones. When that happens, we are unlikely to remember that the conversation began much more civilly than it ended or to recognize what we might have done to escalate the situation.
I don't know whether this happened in your case so I'll try to withhold judgement. But I'd be willing to bet that the other lady remembers a different course of events than you do and that the truth lies somewhere in between the two. Please don't take that as a criticism or a judgement of you. It's just a reflection of my experience with human beings in general.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
On the other hand, no matter how in the right you are, if you're a *#$&*#$ while correcting them, then you lose the BetterThanYou stick.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Kat, No one has disagreed with you on that yet so I don't understand why you feel its necessary to keep repeating. We got your point.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: The content is going to be harsh no matter what. The delivery need not be. It's really sad you don't know that.
It's the height of irony and hypocrisy that this delivery is needlessly harsh.
Can you please tone it down?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I apologize for descending to her level.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
Is it really that hard for you to stop acting like this? Is it beyond your control?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: I apologize for descending to her level.
That's not stopping. Against all precedent, I'd like to hope that it's not impossible for you to stop.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
Edit: Meh, nevermind. Apologies to the rest of the thread.
[ September 03, 2010, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: Raymond Arnold ]
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: Rabbit, I think your husband had every right to chew the girl out. I think there is a difference between his experience and mine though. The girl broke the law AND caused harm. What I did in a stopped car did neither.
Absolutely Geraine. I wasn't trying to draw an equivalence between that accident and your situation. The point of that story is that people are very intolerant of criticism even when they are very clearly and unarguably in the wrong and that people often feel that the other persons rude response some how lessens the severity of their own error.
I don't think this is what was happening in the event you described. I also don't think reading a text message while stopped in a parking lot is a particularly dangerous thing, but it is very likely more dangerous than we commonly think.
I've also noticed that such situations tend to escalate so that they end rudely even if they are begun in very civil tones. When that happens, we are unlikely to remember that the conversation began much more civilly than it ended or to recognize what we might have done to escalate the situation.
I don't know whether this happened in your case so I'll try to withhold judgement. But I'd be willing to bet that the other lady remembers a different course of events than you do and that the truth lies somewhere in between the two. Please don't take that as a criticism or a judgement of you. It's just a reflection of my experience with human beings in general.
Well said. I'm sorry for misunderstanding you.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
This thread seems like the right place to put this since we were talking about traffic in general earlier. It's a traffic venting.
I go to school in a suburban area that where I grew up would be considered the boonies. Mostly that's just because it's 20 miles north of where I grew up, and not really near any major city. It's extremely hilly (hence all the cities around here having names like Rochester Hills, Bloomfield Hills, Auburn Hills, they aren't just to sound pretty).
I'm convinced that Auburn Hills is trying to kill me. I live literally right across the street from campus (campus housing is not only awful, it's the most expensive option within a 10 mile radius of campus), and when I moved here I thought I'd save a ton of gas (and the environment) by simply walking or cycling to class in the non-winter months. I neglected to do my pedestrian homework.
I rode my bike to class for the first and last time today, discovering it's like a 45 degree incline the entire way there, which sent me into a mini asthma attack. By the time I got there I wanted to die. On the way back, Auburn Hills attempted to oblige.
Due to the utter and total lack of sidewalks in this God forsaken city, I was forced onto a major street, which is the only one in the area that has a sidewalk that wouldn't have me jockeying with cars traveling at 45mph speeds. It's a pretty big detour to get to this intersection, but the alternative is to try and cross a pretty major thoroughfare that is absent of lights or crosswalks for miles.
Unfortunately, this intersection is a deathtrap for pedestrians and cyclists.
Upon arriving at the intersection, I pressed the button that alerts the traffic signals that a pedestrian wants to cross, then I patiently waited for the light to change. After waiting several minutes the little walk sign appeared, so I took a step into the street...and then took an immediate step back as the cars to my left blasted around the corner, nearly killing me. When it became clear that they weren't going to abide by basic traffic laws, I waited for the next light. Again, I was nearly run over, this time with much screaming and rude gesturing from THEM towards ME.
Finally, I waited until a tiny lull appeared, gesticulated wildly at the cars, who stopped and honked at me despite the fact that I had the right of way, and tried to get me to move by inching up on me! I pointed to their RED light and my WALK sign and gave them a WTF expression, which was answered by the driver throwing his arms up in the air with exasperation.
Seriously, is it such an incredibly foreign concept to look to see if there is a pedestrian, and if he might have the right of way? There's absolutely zero chance that I'll be riding my bike to class again, regardless of how stupid it sounds to take my car to drive less than half a mile to get across the street and park.
[/vent]
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
I think that's very common in suburban areas where pedestrians are are a rare curiosity. It still sucks, though.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
That button that turns the light red is not real. It's a lie propogated by the government to test our psychological tendencies.
Posted by Mucous (Member # 12331) on :
I'd be tempted to grab a shopping cart, leave it at the intersection, and shove it out onto the road a distance in front on you when you have the right-of-way.
See how many cars you can rightfully smash before you can cross Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
That really sucks Lyrhawn. I experienced related problems at an intersection near my former home in Salt Lake. I used to take the bus and then walk from the bus stop to my house which required crossing at a lighted intersection. I was nearly hit by cars making left and right hand turns so many times I started getting off at a different stop and jay walking. At least when I was jay walking between intersections, I had a fighting chance of seeing the cars well in advance and timing my crossing to avoid being hit.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I think there is another aspect to correcting the behavior of other adults that hasn't been mentioned.
A lot of the things people do that bother us are truly inconsequential, things like bad table manners, improper grammar, or inappropriate dress. It's pretty much always rude for one adult to correct another adult about something that is truly inconsequential. Unless you know someone well enough to be certain they want you to tell them if the shade of lipstick they wear looks awful, its very rude to say anything about it. No matter how nicely you try to put it, saying anything at all is inherently rude.
There are also some things that we see other adults do that are very clearly consequential: things like driving when you're obviously drunk, beating a child, driving on the wrong side of the road, or jay walking on the freeway. When we see people doing things like that, we ought to feel a social obligation to intervene even though we know that the adult in question is going to take offense. Sometimes peoples actions have such serious potential consequences that we are justified in correcting them strongly and angrily.
The problems come up in the gray areas, the areas where you think my actions have potentially serious consequences and I don't. No matter how you phrase your criticism, I'm going to think you are doing something inherently rude and am likely to respond in kind. You are then going to think I'm irresponsible and unethical because I apparently don't care about the consequences of my actions so you are likely to escalate your efforts. I'm in turn likely to think you are an arrogant nut case making mountains out of mole hills blow my top.
The problem is that these confrontations almost always happen in the gray areas. Adults don't generally do things if they believe they are endangering other people. We almost always think we are operating within acceptable bounds even when we are not. Nowhere is this more true than when we operate automobiles. Pretty much everyone believes that they are driving safely and prudently until they cause an accident.
All the adults I know agree that the way some people use their cell phones while driving is dangerous. However, they almost all protest that they are the exception and the way they use their cell phone when driving is reasonable and prudent.
I don't commute by car so I rarely have the need or desire to use my cell phone when driving. There have however been occasions when I have answered the phone while I'm driving and rationalized that it was OK. I haven't caused any accidents and it seemed important enough to take the risk at the time. But if I'm honest with myself, I know it was a reckless thing to do. The big problem is that the more frequently people do dangerous things without incident, the easier it becomes for them to persuade themselves that its safe.
[ September 03, 2010, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by scifibum: I think that's very common in suburban areas where pedestrians are are a rare curiosity. It still sucks, though.
The thing is, in the lower suburbs, where a lot of the people that commute to my university actually live, pedestrians are as plentiful as grass. And I've heard that in downtown Auburn Hills, away from campus, it's a pedestrian nirvana, with a farmers market and shops etc. I haven't explored over there yet. It's just this one particular area of the city that is pedestrian hostile. But either way, a lot of these people grew up in cities that weren't this hostile to pedestrians.
People are just inconsiderate punks.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: Unless you know someone well enough to be certain they want you to tell them if the shade of lipstick they wear looks awful, its very rude to say anything about it. No matter how nicely you try to put it, saying anything at all is inherently rude.
I disagree. I think some people have a tremendous talent for criticizing without offending. Also, after several years doing call center customer service and tech support, I know that it is a skill that most people, if they try hard enough, for a long time, can get much better at. That's not to say it's easy for everyone, but I remember having this exact discussion with an ex-girlfriend of mine.
Me: "There's no way you can nicely tell a woman that she needs to get rid of her peach fuzz mustache. You will anger her, and/or hurt her feelings. It's a given.
Her:" No, if you say something like 'You already are cute, but you'd look even cuter if you'd just let somebody wax your upper lip.'
Me: "you know, you've convinced me".
I had to paraphrase her wording there, but, trust me, her tone/delivery/phrasing all worked together to make it very palatable.
I figure, if she could pull that off, then it's definitely possible to mention the danger of texting while driving without teeing someone off. Harder, but possible. Granted, the woman that told Geraine off has ZERO skilz, but that doesn't mean that there aren't people who DO.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Lyr, why not call the cops (or campus police, if this is happening on a college campus) and tell them the problem.
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