He has put his faith out for the world to see, co-ordinating an advertising campaign proclaiming that the end of the world is coming on May 21.
His group, Family Radio, has billboards in 17 Canadian cities, he said, including Toronto, Calgary, Kingston, Windsor, Saskatoon, Ottawa, Quebec City and Montreal. They have thousands more across the United States and overseas in such countries as Iraq, Turkey and Lebanon, Mr. Garcia said.
A travelling caravan of believers is scheduled to be in Calgary and Vancouver next week, according to the group’s website.
“The doors to salvation are open. They are open today and they will be shut on May 21,” said Mr. Garcia, who lives in Oakland, Calif.
The founder of Family Radio, Harold Camping, reportedly came up with the May 21 date based on a mathematical formula he created one night.
quote:Mr. Camping’s math has been wrong before. The preacher’s followers gathered in an auditorium on Sept. 6, 1994, the day Mr. Camping predicted the rapture. Despite nothing happening, Mr. Camping’s following has continued to grow.
“I understand that other people have been wrong, but the fact is that eventually God is going to revisit us,” Mr. Garcia said.
[ May 23, 2011, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: Mucus ]
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
At least I'll get to have my birthday first (May 19th).
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Mine as well, on the 20th.
Maybe the astrological taurus is the destroyer.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
A handi-man we hired left a bunch of brochures for that.
Niki and I are celebrating the end of the world by attending a picnic with the Omaha Atheists.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Oh, we have a couple of those billboards around town.
I just assumed it was my ex's fault somehow. He shares AH's birthday.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
More details
quote:“Have you heard the awesome news?” the side of the RVs asked, in big bold letters. “The End of the World is Almost Here!”
quote:Among them was Gary Vollmer, who took a leave of absence from the Department of Homeland Security to spread the word. He’s supposed to go back on May 23. “But I’m not going back,” he said. “I’ll be gone on the 21st.” ... Tony Moise, a 47-year-old insurance underwriter from Silver Spring, quit his job to prepare. “It will be hell on Earth,” he said, taking a break from handing out material. “You won’t want to be around on May 22. There will be no electricity, no power, no water.”
quote:Camping, an engineer by training, says he came up with the very precise date of May 21 through a mathematical calculation that would probably crash Google’s computers. It involves, among other things, the dates of floods, the signals of numbers in the Bible, multiplication, addition and subtraction thereof. Camping describes his equations with absolute conviction.
I hope he got 6÷2(1+2) right.
quote:To bolster his claim that “judgment days are coming,” Camping has mentioned the massive earthquakes in Chile, Haiti and Japan, as well as the recent tornadoes in the South. And to top that off, gay people are thriving.
quote:The end will come sometime around 6 p.m. on May 21 — not 6 p.m. California time or New York time or Hong Kong time. The world will end at 6 p.m. only when it is 6 p.m. locally, Camping said, citing his calculations. “People will see this coming to them from around the world,” he said. “It will follow the sun around.”
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: I hope he got 6÷2(1+2) right.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
It's interesting how you can look at the behavior of followers of this sort of thing and see just how *qualified* their belief really is, despite the passionate certainty of their words.
For example, in the classic "Gon' die" scenario, say you've been second-opinioned by reliable doctors, prognosis utterly terminal, well...do they tell their jobs "I'll be gone for this five day period." Or do they get their affairs in order, give away possessions, etc.?
These folks if they actually *believed* this stuff, down in the gut...well, I wonder how much gas is in their cars on the 21st?
ETA: That made me LOL too, Mucus:)
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
quote: The end will come sometime around 6 p.m. on May 21
According to the Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter - the world's only totally reliable guide to the future - the world will end on a Saturday. Next Saturday, in fact. Just after tea...
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Man my daughter won't get to graduate - her graduation is the 26th. Bummer.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
I've seen a couple of these in Boston; one right by my office. Didn't realize it was the end of the world.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
This may be a rumor, but a caller to a podcast I listen to claims to have contacted Family Radio and promised to donate $10K to their righteous cause. They were thrilled. But he added the caveat that, if the world somehow didn't end, they would pay him back, plus 10% interest.
Needless to say, they did not take him up on that.
I really hope it's a true story. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
lolol.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
On the way back from the hospital this morning, we saw the caravan mentioned in the article, parked near the National Mall.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
I think this guy may be on to something... first the Rangers get to the world Series on good pitching, and now the Mavericks are about to eliminate the world champion Lakers by playing DEFENSE.
The world may or may not end, but Hell certainly has frozen over...
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
I'm a christian, but this is just stupid. Anyone who thinks they can predict anything down to a date is a complete idiot.
It even says in the Bible, and I'm not trying to preach or anything, because I'm more or less against sticking your religion into people's faces. But still, to further explain how retarded this is, and how fundamentally non-christian, please read the following:
Matthew 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
Mark 13:32 says the same exact thing as the verse above.
Acts 1:7 "He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority."
There are plenty of others, too, throughout the new testament, all of which explain that mortals will never be able to predict the end (not even Christ can do that). It even says not to sit around and wait for it, but rather to live your lives the way you normally would. Be mindful of it, but do not give up on living.
This guy is an idiot and he's obviously just trying to cash in on the end of the world craze everyone seems to be on about. People need to just get on with their lives already. I mean can anyone really believe this crap after he was wrong once before? Fool a gullible retard once, shame on you. Fool them twice, they're even more retarded than I thought.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: The founder of Family Radio, Harold Camping, reportedly came up with the May 21 date based on a mathematical formula he created one night.
Is it wrong of me to think that drinking was involved, as if this is the hidden plot of The Hangover 2?
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
So which timezone will this be occurring in? If I follow news to the east of me, will I be able to see this coming and repent in time?
Will the rapture begin at the international date line?
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I saw one of those RVs in the mall parking lot here in Idaho Falls. I feel so included now.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
quote:Originally posted by advice for robots: I feel so included now.
Lol that made me laugh Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
quote:Fool a gullible retard once, shame on you. Fool them twice, they're even more retarded than I thought.
I think it's still shame on you...people with developmental handicaps are a special case.
quote:I'm not trying to preach or anything, because I'm more or less against sticking your religion into people's faces.
Unrelatedly, I saw this t-shirt and it busted me up.
quote: Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try and shove it down my children's throats.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote: It even says in the Bible, and I'm not trying to preach or anything, because I'm more or less against sticking your religion into people's faces. But still, to further explain how retarded this is, and how fundamentally non-christian, please read the following:
It says it in the Bible now. There was a time, though, when Christians were pretty sure the end was really nigh. In-our-lifetimes-nigh. In other words, while I think these guys are pretty nuts, this particular belief specifically isn't any more nuts than some contemporaries of Christ and their immediate descendants held to as well. But then the world kept on not ending, and Christians-in-general had to sort of drop that particular belief.
Put another way, I don't think the Bible should, as a document, get a whole lot of credit for saying 'don't name the hour' (paraphrasing), because for quite awhile people thought they did know the hour, if not the second, and proclaimed it. And then looked a mite silly when that hour came and went and the wheel in the sky kept on turnin'. Christians aren't in much of a position, in terms of pointing fingers at other Christians, to lay claims to credibility on this subject.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh:
quote: It even says in the Bible, and I'm not trying to preach or anything, because I'm more or less against sticking your religion into people's faces. But still, to further explain how retarded this is, and how fundamentally non-christian, please read the following:
It says it in the Bible now.
I could be unfamilar with the details, but was there ever a time where it wasn't? And I mean that it actually wasn't written in the bible. Because if not, then my point still stands. As far as I know, the dead sea scrolls are the oldest known documents of the original gospels, and the american bible is a direct translation with very few flaws (albiet, they do exist, though these quotes are not among them).
quote: There was a time, though, when Christians were pretty sure the end was really nigh. In-our-lifetimes-nigh. In other words, while I think these guys are pretty nuts, this particular belief specifically isn't any more nuts than some contemporaries of Christ and their immediate descendants held to as well. But then the world kept on not ending, and Christians-in-general had to sort of drop that particular belief.
What you're talking about here is the interpretation of the bible. I was talking about the actually words. Those are different subjects.
quote:Put another way, I don't think the Bible should, as a document, get a whole lot of credit for saying 'don't name the hour' (paraphrasing), because for quite awhile people thought they did know the hour, if not the second, and proclaimed it. And then looked a mite silly when that hour came and went and the wheel in the sky kept on turnin'. Christians aren't in much of a position, in terms of pointing fingers at other Christians, to lay claims to credibility on this subject.
Again, you need to differentiate between the documents and the interpreters, because those are two completely different things. I completely agree with what you are saying about how christians have been saying "the end is nigh" for two thousand years just like they are today, but through all that time, these verses never changed (and if they did, there's no proof of it).
Anyway, I hope that clears it up. Let me know if I misunderstood what you were saying.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Rakeesh:
quote: It says it in the Bible now. There was a time, though, when Christians were pretty sure the end was really nigh. In-our-lifetimes-nigh.
At what point were there Christians in the Bible who thought the world was ending at anytime before Jesus said these words during his ministry?
Yes there were certainly those who thought the world was going to end many different times after Christ's life. They have all been wrong. Christians in general have not dropped the belief that the world will end, in fact polls on the subject have shown that most Christians still believe the world will end sooner rather than later. Heck my entire church is so named The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints because that belief is an essential feature. We haven't predicted any dates, but we do believe that there is much less time than many suspect. I wouldn't put a number on it, but if another 2000 years passed, that would be a pretty serious contradiction for Mormons I should think.
quote:Put another way, I don't think the Bible should, as a document, get a whole lot of credit for saying 'don't name the hour' (paraphrasing), because for quite awhile people thought they did know the hour, if not the second, and proclaimed it.
So when Christians try to do what the Bible says they cannot, the Bible looks silly when they fail?
quote:Christians aren't in much of a position, in terms of pointing fingers at other Christians, to lay claims to credibility on this subject.
I'm so confused. OK there are Christians, relatively many, who think the Bible is clear on the exact date, but there are also Christians who take Jesus' words at face value that the date isn't actually known by anybody but God himself. We don't have any credibility when we say that those who attempt to predict the date, don't actually have any scriptures from the Bible encouraging them to do so, or actively helping the effort?
I'm reasonably certain that if somebody were able to steal the secret of the last day of earth's existence from the Bible, it would be in spite of the Bible, not otherwise.
You are of course welcome to suggest where the Bible attempts to lay down a date for the last day. I've never seen it.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
I'm not a Christian, far from it...but I agree with BlackBlade and Jeff C...just because some Christians went against the bible does not in any way discredit either the bible or other scripture following Christians from saying that picking out an expiration date for reality is crazy with a capital "C".
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
I'm telling you guys... this guy's on to something. Did any of you see game 4?
Posted by FoolishTook (Member # 5358) on :
This bums me out. I can't think of anything significant to do before May 21st. My life is so dull, I can't even celebrate the end of the world in proper fashion.
I'm currently watching all the seasons of Scrubs on Netflix, though. I really am going to set a goal to finish them before May 21st. That way I can feel a part of this wild, reckless abandon.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote:So which timezone will this be occurring in?
Each of them. Apparently there will be a wave of rapture that passes across the Earth at exactly 6:00 PM local time. (not sure if that's by time zone of astronomical local time)
Also, the title of the thread is wrong. Judgment day is May 21. There will be an additional 5 months before the world ends. So the end of the world is October 21.
Hey if you're going to report it, you may as well get it right.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
So... assignments in by May 21 and we our grades on Oct 21?
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
I just figured out, it's a stadium wave. Maybe someone can hand out cards that spell something.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Jeff C.,
quote: I could be unfamilar with the details, but was there ever a time where it wasn't? And I mean that it actually wasn't written in the bible. Because if not, then my point still stands. As far as I know, the dead sea scrolls are the oldest known documents of the original gospels, and the american bible is a direct translation with very few flaws (albiet, they do exist, though these quotes are not among them).
My mistake-I should've been more clear. I didn't mean that there was a time that the Bible, or rather the documents that would become the Bible, said something different. Rather that there was a time that many Christians (of course, for 'many' to feel accurate, a much smaller number had to be reached back then) believed the end of the world was quite soon, within their lifetimes-it wasn't something vague in the indefinite future.
----------
BB,
quote:At what point were there Christians in the Bible who thought the world was ending at anytime before Jesus said these words during his ministry?
That's not quite what I meant. I hope I explained myself more clearly above. I meant followers of Christ who lived at the time of Christ and believed in him-not disciples of Christ as they appear in the Bible.
quote:So when Christians try to do what the Bible says they cannot, the Bible looks silly when they fail?
No. Basically, when the Bible says, 'Don't name the hour' and that comes after a lot of people have said, "Coming really soon!" and then it doesn't happen...I just don't think it should, in and of itself, get much credit for teaching that lesson. I think that credit more fairly goes to common sense. I'm not trying to criticize religion in general or Christianity in particular-I believe I'd make much the same criticism of any belief system.
quote:I'm so confused. OK there are Christians, relatively many, who think the Bible is clear on the exact date, but there are also Christians who take Jesus' words at face value that the date isn't actually known by anybody but God himself. We don't have any credibility when we say that those who attempt to predict the date, don't actually have any scriptures from the Bible encouraging them to do so, or actively helping the effort?
You're confused because I communicated badly-that's my fault. The problem, I feel, is the incredibly vague, unclear message for something that's actually quite specific and including things like an actual time. "We don't know when it's going to happen-don't believe people who tell you they know the day or the hour. But we do know it's going to happen soon. Sooner than we think."
There's a contradiction there. If we don't know when it's going to happen, how do we know it's going to happen sooner than anything? I mean, I'm fine with scripture as metaphor, but this is just frustrating. It's trying to have it both ways, and that's the sort of thing folks like these End of the Worlders are feeding on. This 'soon!' business. I feel that part is pretty clear.
What's less clear (I feel) and more a matter of personal opinion is that it ties in with the vaguely (or not-so-vaguely) threatening aspects of the Bible-as-written, according to some writings. World's gonna end soon, best shape up. The 'or else' is implied.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: I just figured out, it's a stadium wave. Maybe someone can hand out cards that spell something.
If the cards end up spelling out "CalTech", I'm going to be really upset...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by FoolishTook: I'm currently watching all the seasons of Scrubs on Netflix, though.
Me too. I just started S6.
NH, so will the Techers. It's spelled "Caltech".
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
I did that on purpose. Honest. Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
If I could only believe this, I'd stop grading papers and spend the next week and a half snorkeling.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
The end of the world huh...that sounds a little vague to me.
These guys are saying rapture is going to happen...which wouldn't affect me or my wife, but if true, I would hope would affect my children, as they are too young to believe or not in Jesus.
So, let's say for the sake of argument they are right...what is going to happen to all of us heathens? Would it be like any other day except for all the empty churches? Or is the devil, his red horny pointy tail pitchfork self, going to show up and make us all shovel coal in an underground steam bath?
Or what? You Christians out there...what is supposed to happen come judgement day?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nighthawk: I did that on purpose. Honest.
Suuuure.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: Or what? You Christians out there...what is supposed to happen come judgement day?
From my studies, I believe we live in order to fight against the machines. Eventually, the computer that controls the machines will send two back in time.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
They'll be back?
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jim-Me: I'm telling you guys... this guy's on to something. Did any of you see game 4?
Nah. Game 4 just proves that God exists (and, justly, hates the Lakers). Doesn't necessarily mean He's going to destroy the world this month, though. Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote:If the cards end up spelling out "CalTech", I'm going to be really upset...
"We apologise for the inconvenience..."
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
The Queen's visit to Ireland is from May 17-20, clearly this is the omen of the end of days.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: The end of the world huh...that sounds a little vague to me.
These guys are saying rapture is going to happen...which wouldn't affect me or my wife, but if true, I would hope would affect my children, as they are too young to believe or not in Jesus.
So, let's say for the sake of argument they are right...what is going to happen to all of us heathens? Would it be like any other day except for all the empty churches? Or is the devil, his red horny pointy tail pitchfork self, going to show up and make us all shovel coal in an underground steam bath?
Or what? You Christians out there...what is supposed to happen come judgement day?
My Revalations is a little rusty, but from what I recal, the nonbelievers are supposed to be left behind (thanks, Rapture!). After that, the world turns chaotic with mass hysteria. Countries will fall and hundreds of millions will die in disease, famine, war, and natural disasters. The world will be torn assunder by natural forces until islands sink and mountains fall, making all known maps completely unreliable. Then, with the absence of the holy spirit on Earth, the demons of hell will be let loose upon mankind. It will literally be hell on Earth (party 2011!!!!). These demons will take the form of various things, including locusts and frogs (think Egypt, circa biblical Exodus) as well as demonic horsemen, each taking a fourth of the Earth.
Of course, during all of this, the antichrist, disguised as a human being, has been spreading propoganda and deceit, convincing the masses to follow him to cleanse the remaining believers (i.e. those who converted after the Rapture, thereby still stuck on Earth). A rebellion has formed, however, and the believers have moved underground.
This entire fiasco lasts for seven years (biblical numerology 101) and ends with the antichrist taking over Jeruselem. After that, there's a final battle (It's the FINAL COUNTDOWN!!!) in Megiddo (otherwise known as, yep, you guess it...Armageddon). This battle is where Christ the Messiah comes back to battle his evil counterpart and their forces clash. Ultimately, the good guys win and Heaven sets down upon Earth, creating a sort of hybrid known as New Jeruselem. Everyone lives happily ever after.
Except for the sinners. Them folks gotta burn.
Yay for story time with Jeff! Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
quote: each taking a fourth of the Earth.
Do the oceans count? It sounds like a waste of malicious power to have a horsemen create anarchy out in the sea.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
In other news, AchillesHeel is building a boat.
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Imagine being the one horseman with absolutly no landmasses to terrorize, poor guy.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
seahorseman of the apocalypse
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Vs. Aquaman
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
"Finally! I'm not useless"
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: "Finally! I'm not useless"
Aquaman commands the creatures of the deep! Surely that isn't entirelyuseless...
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
How is Aquaman vs. The Seahorseman of the Apocalypse not a real comic book yet?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
it's not may 21st yet?
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Only 10 more days! I wonder if these people have sold their earthly possessions yet like some people did back in the 80's. Seems like everytime these end of the world things comes around, everyone gives away their stuff, moves out into the woods, and waits patiently. Then they get upset when it doesn't happen. Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by jebus202: The Queen's visit to Ireland is from May 17-20, clearly this is the omen of the end of days.
Get a few stiff drinks in the Queen and she ends up blowing up the world. Who knew?
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
I don't think it'll be her blowing anything up.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
The math makes my brain hurt. Thank god it'll only hurt for ten more days, though...
And, for the record, Judgment Day is May 21st. The world dies by fire on OCTOBER 21st! So smoke if ya got 'em!
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
GUYS
GUYS I FIGURED IT OUT
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
ITS TOO LATE, IT'S COMING ONLINE
MICROSOFT BOUGHT SKYPE IT'S WHAT BRINGS ABOUT THE END
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
YOU HAVE TO WARN OT
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Hasn't Google already been Skynet for years?
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Hasn't Google already been Skynet for years?
You knew this and didn't tell anybody!!!!
Great, rivka. You are responsible for the end of days. Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
"The end of days"
That's okay...I prefer the nights.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Javert:
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Hasn't Google already been Skynet for years?
You knew this and didn't tell anybody!
Actually, I've been saying this for at least a couple years now.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
quote:Actually, I've been saying this for at least a couple years now.
Spoilers if you haven't seen the movie "Unbreakable."
When I was a young teenager, my hands always smelled like Peanut Butter. Always. This didn't make much sense, because I only had it about once a month. But the smell was always noticeable.
Eventually I saw the movie X-Men, in which I learned that people with mutant powers tended to show signs early, but the powers didn't manifest until puberty during periods of high emotional stress. And shortly afterwards I realized that I never actually HAD a moment of high emotional stress during puberty - most of the stuff that people go through at age, I managed to avoid until I was around 17. So my theory is that my mutant power was supposed to be secreting and eventually shooting peanut butter from my hands, but missed out on the chance to develop this due to an utterly boring adolescence.
On an unrelated note, I have a friend who's obsessed with Google. He always sending me links to cool stuff that Google's doing. "Look Ray, Google's creating a map of the entire earth out of satellite images!" "Look Ray! Google's creating a database of people's DNA!" "Look Ray! Google's developing cars that can drive themselves without human input! Isn't Google Awesome!"
Yes, Chris. Awesome. If by awesome you mean terrifying as hell.
This progressed over several years. Then, during college, when I was around 20, I was feeling rather sad one day. I can't remember why. Nothing particularly bad had happened - I was just mopey. I thought to myself "man, it'd be cool if someone showed up and did something nice for me for no reason."
An hour later, I ran into a friend who had just gotten back from vacation in Britain. He had purchased gifts for his friends. Mine was a copy of the book How to Survive a Robot Uprising, by Daniel H Wilson. It included a chapter that warned you of what to look out for - the events, seemingly innocuous, that would lead up to the robot apocalypse.
Google is basically following that list, checking things off one my by one. "Detailed map of the entire world? Establish cables connecting everything to everything that are firmly under your control? Check. Automated cars that don't need human drivers? Check." Sooner or later Larry and Sergey will die in a mysterious accident and then it'll basically be over. We'll wake up in a world where our entire lives are dependent on a giant sentient algorithm that knows everything there is to know about us and which is utterly in control of the information we receive.
Fortunately, I have the book, so I'll know what to do.
It so happens that another friend of mine owns a house that does NOT show up on Google Earth. If you type in the address, it redirects you to another spot a few miles north. So that'll be my initial base of operations. Eventually I'll have to move out into the wilderness where there's less infrastructure, leading my rag tag band of rebels. The robots will come after us, and we will wage a gritty, terrible war. Many of us will die. But in the stress of battle, at long last, I think that my mutant power will finally awaken. As the machines descend upon us, a torrent of peanut butter will pour forth from my fingers and I shall clog their gears with giant blobs of the stuff. Bullets may not stop them, but the gigantic wads of peanut butter will seap into their inner circuitry and ruin them.
Shortly afterwards, I will meet a female resistance fighter whose hands smell of jelly. Together we will lead the resistance.
By this point, suspect my friend Chris will have become the public face of Google (Larry and Sergey having grown too suspicious and afraid of the creation, and subsequently killed). When I fight my way into the secret Google Lair, he will be there waiting, and he will offer me a truce. "Join me, Ray!" He will say. "No!" I shall proudly yet sadly declare. "So be it, friend" he will whisper bitterly. He will summon shield-droids to protect him and assault my plucky band of rebels. But by the fury of my peanut butter, one by one the shields of the droids will fizzle and fail. For a brief moment, a single drop is able to squeeze through the shields and strike Chris in the face.
And it just so happens that Chris is [i]deathly[i] allergic to peanut butter. His skin will bubble and crawl. Screaming, he will topple over into the giant pit that is the Google Mainframe Core. His corpse will land upon the giant red button that is the only failsafe. And then there will be a huge explosion.
I will be weakened, having strained my powers to the max against the shield droids. By Jelly Girl and her forces will save the day, rescuing me and escaping to safety just as the shockwave hits.
That night, I will look upon the burning remnants of the Google Campus, and whisper to Jelly Girl: "Do you know how to tell who the Arch Villain is going to be?"
"Of course I do! I've seen Unbreakable, after all. He's the exact opposite of the hero, and usually is friends with them in the beginning."
"Indeed. With my peanut powers, and Chris' deadly allergy, I always knew we would one day find each other on opposing sides, deadly enemies."
The smoke dissipates. Soon the sun rises. A new day dawns for humanity.
-
tldr: basically Google's gonna wreck everything like rivka said but don't worry I got this. Powers an' all.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I didn't say they were going to wreck everything. I for one welcome our Google overlords.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Of course you realise Raymond, that you have just revealed your plan to the Google. Go off the grid now or expect to be terminated long before you can become suspicious enough to do so.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Lol that was an epic story. Well done, sir!
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
Spielberg's on line two, Raymond. He says you have to talk.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
We have a line two? We have a line one? Are you interested in switching your long distance carrier?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*points left* Line one.
*points right* Line two.
And NO CUTTING!
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
While I think this is the first time I told the story using written words online, I've told it *in front* of my laptop while I was logged into gmail, and I'm pretty sure the little camera in my computer was recording everything then too.
Lol that would hilarious if people actually did that on twitter or even facebook. Sort of reminds me of Orsen Welles' radio rendition of War of the Worlds Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Pretty sure that was an Aussie accent, Wolf.
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
Only six days left, so I guess I'll wait to start my diet until NEXT week!
Posted by FoolishTook (Member # 5358) on :
Never even thought of that, DDDaysh. I've been on a diet for 5 months now, and what the heck FOR?
If the entire world starts burning on May 21st, having a few extra pounds may actually be a good thing.
I've always dreamed of buying and eating an entire Dairy Queen ice cream cake. I think now is the time.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:The show launched in 2009 after a nationwide search for young people (all under 30) new to mainstream television. The presenters, producers, reporters, researchers, shooter/directors, graphic designers, editors and writers were drawn from across Australia.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Laugh while you still can -- http://emergency.cdc.gov/socialmedia/zombies_blog.asp -- plenty of time for quaking in fear later. Or not, depending on how well you've prepared for the days following the Rapture.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
Even if I did believe in the current foolishness, that flowchart is filled with all sorts of nonsense. Leviticus and Revelation don't exactly mesh without a whole lot of "SAVED!" in between.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Man, I wish someone around here was throwing a party for this. That would be awesome! I guess my boss IS having a BBQ, so maybe if I show up drunk spouting off about the rapture and counting down to it, it'll kinda be the same.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
A co-workers trying to put together a themed party.
He asked me where one could buy communion wafers so he could put them next to the dip.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Festinger and several of his colleagues had infiltrated the Seekers, a small Chicago-area cult whose members thought they were communicating with aliens—including one, "Sananda," who they believed was the astral incarnation of Jesus Christ. The group was led by Dorothy Martin, a Dianetics devotee who transcribed the interstellar messages through automatic writing.
Through her, the aliens had given the precise date of an Earth-rending cataclysm: December 21, 1954. Some of Martin's followers quit their jobs and sold their property, expecting to be rescued by a flying saucer when the continent split asunder and a new sea swallowed much of the United States. The disciples even went so far as to remove brassieres and rip zippers out of their trousers—the metal, they believed, would pose a danger on the spacecraft.
Festinger and his team were with the cult when the prophecy failed. First, the "boys upstairs" (as the aliens were sometimes called) did not show up and rescue the Seekers. Then December 21 arrived without incident. It was the moment Festinger had been waiting for: How would people so emotionally invested in a belief system react, now that it had been soundly refuted?
At first, the group struggled for an explanation. But then rationalization set in. A new message arrived, announcing that they'd all been spared at the last minute. Festinger summarized the extraterrestrials' new pronouncement: "The little group, sitting all night long, had spread so much light that God had saved the world from destruction." Their willingness to believe in the prophecy had saved Earth from the prophecy!
From that day forward, the Seekers, previously shy of the press and indifferent toward evangelizing, began to proselytize. "Their sense of urgency was enormous," wrote Festinger. The devastation of all they had believed had made them even more certain of their beliefs.
In the annals of denial, it doesn't get much more extreme than the Seekers. They lost their jobs, the press mocked them, and there were efforts to keep them away from impressionable young minds. But while Martin's space cult might lie at on the far end of the spectrum of human self-delusion, there's plenty to go around. And since Festinger's day, an array of new discoveries in psychology and neuroscience has further demonstrated how our preexisting beliefs, far more than any new facts, can skew our thoughts and even color what we consider our most dispassionate and logical conclusions. This tendency toward so-called "motivated reasoning" helps explain why we find groups so polarized over matters where the evidence is so unequivocal: climate change, vaccines, "death panels," the birthplace and religion of the president (PDF), and much else. It would seem that expecting people to be convinced by the facts flies in the face of, you know, the facts.
It's going to be a fascinating case study to watch how they respond and justify the end of the world not coming after all! It's not very likely that the head Bible Mathemagic figures are going to admit much about their own fallibility.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nighthawk: He asked me where one could buy communion
Churches of some denominations use (unsalted) matzos. I'm not kidding. Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Ignore this rant if you want, but I have a few thoughts on the matter that I think might be interesting...
There was a guy back in the sixties who wrote a book about how the world was going to end based on his interpretations of the book of Revalations. When it didn't happen, there were all these people who had given away their money and savings and houses, and now they had nothing. He wrote another book in the 80's and it said he made a mistake in the previous one, and that this was the corrected one, which had the end date in 1984 (the year I was born). Obviously, it didn't happen. Neither did Jesus' return in the year 2000 or any of the other subsequent apocalypses that people predicted in the decade that followed.
This has been going on for a while. Every 5 or so years there's some major cult/leader going around declaring the end of the world and relating it to the bible (or the mayans...). It's just rediculous.
There's also a few guys around the world declaring themselves to be the reincarnation of Christ. One from Mexico, one from Asia, and one from Germany. They each have their own group of followers and they all seem to making headline news, even in the States. I think it's hillarious that people buy into this. I mean, if you call yourself a christian, for crying out loud, read your own book. It never says Jesus will be reborn again in human form and live a human life again (in fact, his "return" is actually supposed to rip apart the sky, where he will arive atop a big, white horse). It says we will never be able to predict the end of the world (and in fact suggests that no one will even suspect it when it does happen). And it says that anyone who does any of this will be a "false prophet" and doomed to fail (and consequently be damned).
I never go to church and I know this stuff, so how do these seemingly obsessed individuals not notice the inherent contradictions in their own book?
It might have something to do with our psychological need for destruction. From what I understand and from what I have read on the matter, all of this apocalypic hysteria may stem from a deep-seeded fear of an individual's fear of death. A person looks at their life and they see the possibility of death and they think, well if I'm dying, that means the world is going to die, because I am the world. It's all in the subconscious, but supposedly that's what it is. We all, at some level, want the world to end because at least this way, we won't go out alone. If you're a christian, you want it to happen because you want to hurry up and have eternal life, which would quench that fear of dying and the subsequent fear of nothingness.
Is that theory correct? I don't know, but it makes sense to me in a way. With so many ways for us to die, it's no wonder we come up with some many predictions and scenarios where it's not just one life ending, it's the entire world. Misery loves company, after all.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nighthawk: A co-workers trying to put together a themed party.
He asked me where one could buy communion wafers so he could put them next to the dip.
First of all, communion wafers are not tasty. It would be like eating dip on packing material. Even matzos would be a zillion times better. Next, he should get his denominations straightened out. Waiting for the rapture is not a particularly Catholic obsession. Protestant churches generally use regular bread cut into little cubes. These things are so much funnier when you get your details right. Tastier, too. And he isn't trying very hard. You can get communion wafers on Amazon.
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
quote: If Family Radio is wrong and the world survives, Seattle Atheists will donate all the money from the relief fund to Camp Quest, which teaches children about science and critical thinking.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Thought I'd share this - it was one of my contributions to one of the many "Pun Smackdown" threads here about 8 years ago. This one seems appropriate for today:
quote:Michael Crichton revealed that his original draft of Jurassic Park included a character he ended up cutting.
In addition to the crew we've all grown familiar with, the original version included a character who was an evangelical Christian missionary.
Seems that in the original version, that character is separated from the group and is found by a lone velociraptor.
The Christian ended up being carried away by the Raptor.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
My boss just said, "Have a happy weekend, if you don't get chosen."
What? Oh. Oh, good grief.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
He wasn't... joking?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Apparently, May 22 this year has been dubbed "LMAO Day". I've actually been invited to it on Facebook.
(Post Edited by Janitor Blade. I was a bit iffy about this Lisa but ultimately it's still disparagement of a religion.)
[ May 20, 2011, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: JanitorBlade ]
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Janitorblade: Why are you going to leave it up to her to remove/edit that horrible post? How well would it fly if someone said "I was thinking that one of the coolest things that could happen would be if all the Jews were to disappear tomorrow!"
Just remove it, seriously.
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
I did in retrospect Samp, you are right.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Oh ok haha, I didn't see the post vanish
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I'm kind of just hoping for zombies, which is what I do every other day of the year, so yeah, it'll be a totally normal day.
Posted by Ace of Spades (Member # 2256) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Apparently, May 22 this year has been dubbed "LMAO Day". I've actually been invited to it on Facebook.
(Post Edited by Janitor Blade. I was a bit iffy about this Lisa but ultimately it's still disparagement of a religion.)
You did good, for once.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
Wife just texted me "Is the world ending tomorrow?"
My response: "No. I might have to do some traveling, though."
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
Wow, Ace. Really?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Update: Family Radio rep on their livestream kinda freaking out about the Rapture not happening, changing story from rolling timezone earthquake to one massive-everywhere earthquake at 3pm Jerusalem time, 8am EDT.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
That's only in about half an hour, isn't it?
Well, at least we'll all know if we've been saved or not by the time I need to do the shopping. I'd hate to have just bought the groceries, be planning dinner, and then have an earthquake destroy the world.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Now he's using bible quotes his daughter dug up to explain that maybe it's 6pm Jerusalem time, not 3pm.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
It's 8:05 and I'm still here. I guess I didn't make the cut.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Technically, if you want to go by Jerusalem time, you would go by when sunset is. The ancient Hebrew reckoning in the Bible was that days are observed from sunset to sunset. This is seen in Genesis one, when the days of Creation week start with the dark period, the "evening" followed by the light portion, the "morning." This is also how the Sabbath was specifically commanded by God to be designated: "It is to be a sabbath of complete rest to you, and you shall humble your souls; on the ninth of the month at evening, from evening until evening you shall keep your sabbath." (Leviticus 23:32; NASB) The same period was still observed in New Testament times by the Jews, despite the introduction of the Roman custom of marking days from midnight to midnight.
The "rapture" is a false doctrine derrived from wresting a very few metaphorical statements out of context. There are no time prophecies in the Bible that designate the hour or even day when Christ will return (in any sense). "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only." (Matthew 24:36; NKJV) Camping tried to explain away this text, but he failed. It is too plain and explicit.
The world most definitely will not end today. However, anyone could get hit by a truck. So it still would behoove anyone get right with God. The Bible makes it abundantly clear that God wants our primary motivation for this to be love, not fear.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
I'm listening to the preacher just about lose his marbles on the radio. He's just getting more and more crazy.
He's taking calls (and getting pranked a lot — got rickrolled once and had no idea what was going on) and blathering a lot of eschatological nuttiness and getting just more .. manic, and off the wall.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
And then, tomorrow, he'll get back to spending his money.
ETA: I followed the link to Family Radio and it seems to be on "Story Time."
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: a false doctrine derrived from wresting a very few metaphorical statements out of context.
Rapture nate dhalani, you totally see her saying it.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
lawl
uggggggh I'm glad we're on storytime now, I was legitimately having trouble listening to the guy.
We're watching the pain of discontinuity in action, from yet another person who's just oh so sure they got it all figured out.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I'm having trouble thinking of new Rapture jokes
all the good ones are taken
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Damn you for making my lips twitch.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
If I could be there to console this minister right now, I'd do it. I'd sit down with him and say "Cheer up, harold camping, it's not the end of the worl ... er .. "
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I'm just so surprised that not a single person qualified for rapture treatment. Didn't see that one coming.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Wow. It is the apocalypse. I just agreed with Ron on a post about Scripture. Nice post, Ron.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Well, it's 6.19 here and after 7pm in Jerusalem so I think we can all breathe a big sigh of relief.
Until next year, folks.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Dammit! I was asleep and I missed the Rapture!
I knew my laziness would damn me.
Posted by Mucous (Member # 12331) on :
Time to get some dim sum, I guess.
Did someone record that preacher session, maybe on Youtube or something?
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Man, can you imagine being that guy and the complete and utter dissapointment he must have felt? He's 80-something years old so you know he's not going to get the chance to do something else to make up for this. He doesn't have much time left as it is. I kinda feel bad for him because he basically made a huge fool out of himself in front of the entire country.
Still...what an idiot.
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
And the people who believed him and left homes, jobs, families ... I feel sorry for them.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jeff C.: I kinda feel bad for him because he basically made a huge fool out of himself in front of the entire country.
Make that 'entire world'. People were tweeting about this from Tonga.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Lol wow. Tonga? Talk about the middle of nowhere.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
How many people actually bought in to this? My impression is that it was a really, really tiny group and everyone else just thought it was fun to joke about. All of the evangelical Christians I know were big on "no man will know the hour". Is my impression wrong?
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
Gosh, it's quiet around here... Where is everyone? No line at the gas station or for lottery tickets... Is today a holiday or something?
Posted by AchillesHeel (Member # 11736) on :
Quickly Nighthawk, initiate phase one of your Z-Day readiness plans!
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
Half of my town is down the street at the local Tea Party rally. Rumor is that Jindal and Vitter might show up.
I dont whether the religious nut jobs or political nut jobs scare me more.
Posted by Dobbie (Member # 3881) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amanecer: How many people actually bought in to this? My impression is that it was a really, really tiny group...
I don't think it was that many.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
Our pastor today in church (SDA) preached about the many texts that spell out the manner of Christ's return, that it will not be secret, but will be witnessed by everyone. He will return in "like manner" as He ascended--when His disciples watched Him physically rise up into the sky to be received into the clouds of heaven. (See Acts 1:9-11) None of the apostles wrote any epistles exhorting believers to be ready for any secret coming of Christ.
What I really dislike is the way this will encourage unbelievers to disregard any message that Christ is returning soon. As Jesus said, no one knows the day or hour, but we can know by the signs of the times--which He spelled out in Matthew 24--that His coming is nearing. But in fact, He did imply that false predictions like Harold Camping's are among those signs that His true Second Coming is getting nearer. He said if someone says He is in the desert, do not go. And if someone says He is in the inner chambers, do not go. There will be false christs and false prophets. (See Mat. 24:24-26) But where these counterfeits exist, there must also be the true. All these counterfeits are designed to distract us from the true. Camping may not have been doing this deliberately--but he allowed himself to be duped into doing this. It is evidence of the destructive effect of the Rapture doctrine.
[ May 21, 2011, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
More backpedaling, we've passed something like several time slots that were apparently "okay guys, this one's it, FOR REAL THIS TIME"
Silly Family Radio, first thing religions should learn is to avoid making statements that are easily falsifiable.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
while taking calls, he drops the ~discontinuity bomb~
"We may have to redefine judgment"
dude is in denial hardcore
/edit
Deuteronomy quote makes him flip out: "That verse was written before the Bible was complete."
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
Awww, I was hoping I wouldn't have to clean the cat box.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: What I really dislike is the way this will encourage unbelievers to disregard any message that Christ is returning soon. As Jesus said, no one knows the day or hour, but we can know by the signs of the times--which He spelled out in Matthew 24--that His coming is nearing. But in fact, He did imply that false predictions like Harold Camping's are among those signs that His true Second Coming is getting nearer. He said if someone says He is in the desert, do not go. And if someone says He is in the inner chambers, do not go. There will be false christs and false prophets. (See Mat. 24:24-26) But where these counterfeits exist, there must also be the true. All these counterfeits are designed to distract us from the true. Camping may not have been doing this deliberately--but he allowed himself to be duped into doing this. It is evidence of the destructive effect of the Rapture doctrine.
Well as for me, I tend to be skeptical of claims that Jesus is comin' soon because people have been saying' that since He left (and for some Christians, that's left *both* times no less).
The fact of centuries or milleniaof prediction of return coupled the equally undeniable fact of a lack of a return will lead any mind that's examining the thing fairly-that hasn't already made up its mind, that is-with a healthy dose of skepticism. That 'soon' business I mean.
Likewise with the counterfeit claim. The fact that some whack jobs predicted something probably wrong doesn't at all mean they only got their *math* wrong, but the other substance of their claims right. By that reasoning, any wrong prediction that's proven wrong serves as evidence for...something other than it's being wrong. That just doesn't make sense, again unless your mind is already made up.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:again unless your mind is already made up.
spoiler alert: it is
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
And if you are surprised and this is an isolated case, will you be any more likely than camping to publicly admit you were wrong?
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
He wouldn't be wrong in that case. He would be wrong if it were an isolated case and he weren't surprised. Strange thing to want him to admit publicly, though. "I'm sorry I was wrong about my feelings. Next time I'll try to be more sure of whether or not I'll be surprised."
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Rabbit, what's to admit? Everyone can see he was wrong. What he needs to do is recognize that his methods of interpreting the Bible are unsound. As the Apostle Peter said, "No prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation." (2 Peter 1:20). The only way I know to avoid a private interpretation is to use sound, scholarly objective methods, which have to include allowing the Bible itself to supply the definitions for all the symbol used, apply the prophecies to the time in history and to the national or other entities specifically indicated in the text, and use straightforward and reasonable means for determining what passages are meant to be literal and which are meant to be figurative. We can do this with most works of literature. Why does it suddenly become hard when it comes to the Bible? If you remember it is God's Word, and you want to find out what God meant, and that it is not your word to try to bend it and fashion it to suit your imaginative ideas, then there are ways to arrive at a proper understanding that is not one you just made up.
If I may give one specific example, Tim Lahaye, one of the co-writers for the Left Behind series of novels, claimed at one point that he believed you should take as figurative only those prophetic passages in Revelation that use the words "like" or "as it were." Anything else should be regarded as literal. Thus he winds up taking some very bizarre things literally. This methodology is plainly contradicted by Revelation 17:15: "And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." This explicitly tells us that "waters" is a figurative symbol, not literal, and gives us the definition of the symbol. Yet when you read earlier in the chapter, the prophecy of the woman sitting amid the waters never uses the words "like" or "as it were." Thus LaHaye's confessed methodology for his interpretation is contradicted.
If you take reasonable notice of such plain definitions of what symbols mean, what are the times and entities the text itself indicates they should be applied to, and what the context indicates about whether it is literal narrative or figuative, you can arrive at an interpretation that is entirely consistent and makes perfect sense, and is not just something you dreamed up. It is important to know that Harold Camping did not do this. Nor did/does LaHaye. The judgment that is most warranted of them is that they show themselves to be very poor Bible students. They are self-proclaimed "scholars" who have shown that they deserve to be ashamed of their poor scholarship.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote:And if you are surprised and this is an isolated case, will you be any more likely than camping to publicly admit you were wrong?
It took me awhile to parse this. At first glance it seemed like if I was surprised, I would either admit I was wrong or go camping.
Let's just say that I anticipated that some of Camping's followers would have their world shattered, and would react in extreme fashion. So this news article didn't surprise me. I don't pretend to be able to predict HOW these people will react, but given that some of them have quit their jobs and given away their worldly possessions, I suspect there will be fallout.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
Apocalypse Not
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:If you take reasonable notice of such plain definitions of what symbols mean, what are the times and entities the text itself indicates they should be applied to, and what the context indicates about whether it is literal narrative or figuative, you can arrive at an interpretation that is entirely consistent and makes perfect sense, and is not just something you dreamed up.
I just need to remind people that in a decade of making various predictions on this site, Ron has yet to have ONE come anywhere even close to true.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:I just need to remind people that in a decade of making various predictions on this site, Ron has yet to have ONE come anywhere even close to true.
A further reminder: the way to demonstrate that predictions have been accurate, and that further predictions should be greeted with anything other than skepticism, is to point to those predictions and the outcomes that matched up, along with the predictions that weren't verified, so they can be compared. It is not to simply state, in a tone of righteous indignation, that it is known that one has been correct many times in the past and that one's detractors are full of bunk and other personal defects and that one therefore isn't beholden to respond to direct challenges.
That's the way to avoid demonstrating accurate predictions.
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
God, I am so tired of all my Facebook friends cracking unoriginal jokes about this May 21 thing. Shouldn't it at least be over now?
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
quote:Originally posted by Parkour:
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: a false doctrine derrived from wresting a very few metaphorical statements out of context.
Rapture nate dhalani, you totally see her saying it.
HA! Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I saw that too-I forgot to post about it, though:) That deserves a bazinga for sure:)
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
We were at a child's birthday party during the rapture last night, so apparently all our kids are little heathens after all! I KNEW it!
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Good news everyone!
The date was merely a bit early
quote:California preacher Harold Camping says his prophecy that the world would end was off by five months because Judgment Day actually will come on October 21.
The independent Christian radio host said Monday the apocalypse will come five months after May 21, the original date he predicted.
Mr. Camping says he felt so terrible when his doomsday prediction did not come true on Saturday that he left home and took refuge in a motel with his wife.
That's not good news at all!
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
quote: Saturday was “an invisible judgment day” in which a spiritual judgment took place, he said. But the timing and the structure is the same as it has always been, he said.
The Yahoo version of this article quotes him as promising that we will still be consumed by a fireball on October 21st. Which just leaves me wondering if it's going to be one of them invisible fireballs.
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
quote:Mr. Camping says he felt so terrible when his doomsday prediction did not come true on Saturday that he left home and took refuge in a motel with his wife.
Sounds like he got some pity sex.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
*shudder*
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by Destineer:
quote:Mr. Camping says he felt so terrible when his doomsday prediction did not come true on Saturday that he left home and took refuge in a motel with his wife.
Sounds like he got some pity sex.
Man, that excuse has never worked for me...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Used it a lot, have you?
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
I'm really disappointed that the rapture didn't happen. Maybe somebody could clarify the scripture for me: after the rapture, is there any chance of being saved? It never really made much sense to me that everybody wouldn't be saved, because, seriously, would anybody not immediately become a Christian if the rapture happened?
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
JonHecht, from what I gather from the Left Behind novels by LeHaye and Jenkins, those who are converted after the rapture are called "Tribulation saints."
I think this is a dangerous teaching, because it gives people the idea that they can keep on refusing to repent, keep on grieving the Holy Spirit away by their stubborn hard-heartedness, and yet still look forward to getting a second chance. There is no second chance. When the last offer of grace has been given, and people have made their final decision against God, hardening themselves in impenitence, then their fate is sealed when Jesus closes His Mediatorial work for us and proclaims: "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still. And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work." (Revelation 22:11, 12; NKJV).
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Well it certainly sounds like the act of a loving god, a world in which one is denied for eternity God's grace by the actions within a mortal span. And not at all like a means of coercion, using the threat of time's runnin' out and once it's out you're doomed, so act now...or else.
[ May 24, 2011, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: Rakeesh ]
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Actually, if you read Revalations, it says that after the Rapture the Anti-Christ will be here, saying that he is really God and that the people should follow him, which they will do. Only a small resistance will refuse him and know that he isn't God. Those people will be killed by the Anti-Christ and his armies, but they will be saved.
A lot of people will follow the anti-christ because they don't know their bible, so they will believe whatever the guy says, supposedly. That's what the bible says anyway.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
quote:I think this is a dangerous teaching, because it gives people the idea that they can keep on refusing to repent, keep on grieving the Holy Spirit away by their stubborn hard-heartedness, and yet still look forward to getting a second chance. There is no second chance.
Yeah, of course, because Jesus was all about 'no second chances'. Real tough guy, never forgave anyone's sins or accepted their penance. That's totally the basis of the Christian faith.
Look at the parable of the prodigal son. No second chances there.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
what makes this extra surreal is that you're having this discussion with a millerite, cause ron is part of the seventh-day adventist church
seriously think about this: the origins of that entire denomination comes from a completely and totally wrong guess at the time of the coming of Christ.
quote:Despite the urging of his supporters, Miller never personally set an exact date for the expected Second Advent. However, in response to their urgings he did narrow the time-period to sometime in the year 1843, stating: “My principles in brief, are, that Jesus Christ will come again to this earth, cleanse, purify, and take possession of the same, with all the saints, sometime between March 21, 1843 and March 21, 1844”[19] March 21, 1844 passed without incident, and the majority of Millerites maintained their faith. On March 25, Miller wrote to Himes, “I am still looking for the Dear Savior…. The time, as I have calculated it, is now filled up; and I expect every moment to see the Savior descend from heaven. I have now nothing to look for but this glorious hope.”[20] As George R. Knight states, the movement’s survival was a result of the fact that, “the Millerite leaders had been ‘soft’ on the time…. They allowed for the possibility of small errors in their calculations and even in some of their historic dates.”[21] In fact, on February 28, Miller himself had written, “If Christ comes, as we expect, we will sing the song of victory soon; if not, we will watch, and pray, and preach until he comes, for soon our time, and all prophetic days, will have been filled.”[22] Further discussion and study resulted in the brief adoption of a new date—April 18, 1844, one based on the Karaite Jewish calendar (as opposed to the Rabbinic calendar).[23] Like the previous date, April 18 passed without Christ’s return. More study led the Millerites to believe that they had entered the “tarrying time”—a time of waiting after which Christ would finally return—spoken of in Matthew 25:5 and Habakkuk 3:2-3. This belief sustained the Millerites through the months of May to July, 1844. As Knight notes however, this period represented a “flatness in Millerite evangelism,” when even the Millerite preachers must have experienced diminished certainty.[24]
quote:In August 1844 at a camp-meeting in Exeter, New Hampshire, everything changed when Samuel S. Snow presented a message of earth-shattering proportions—what became known as the “seventh-month” message or the “true midnight cry.”[25] In a complex discussion based on scriptural typology, Snow presented his conclusion (still based on the 2300 day prophecy in Daniel 8:14), that Christ would return on, “the tenth day of the seventh month of the present year, 1844.”[26] Again using the calendar of the Karaite Jews, this date was determined to be October 22, 1844. This “seventh month message” “spread with a rapidity unparalleled in the Millerite experience” amongst the general population. The situation caught many of the established leaders—including Himes and Miller himself, by surprise. Knight reports that, “There is no evidence that any of the foremost Millerite preachers accepted this grass-roots development until late September. Most did not accept it until early October.”[27]
October 22, 1844, that day of great hope and promise, ended like any other day to the disappointment of the Millerites. Both Millerite leaders and followers were left generally bewildered and disillusioned. Responses varied: some Millerites continued to look daily for Christ’s return, others predicted different dates—among them April, July, and October 1845. Some theorized that the world had entered the seventh millennium, the “Great Sabbath”, and that, therefore, the saved should not work. Others acted as children, basing their belief on Jesus’ words in Mark 10:15, “Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.” O. J. D. Pickands used Revelation 14:14-16 to teach that Christ was now sitting on a white cloud, and must be prayed down. Probably the majority however, simply gave up their beliefs and attempted to rebuild their lives.[28] Some members rejoined their previous denominations while a substantial number became Quakers.[29]
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but according to wikipedia, Camping has predicted a failed rapture 3 times now.
-1988 -1994 -2011
Three strikes and you're out Camping.
To make matters worse, Camping has predicted yet ANOTHER end date, this time in October:
quote:On May 23, 2011 in an appearance before the press, Camping stated he has reinterpreted his prophecy. In his revised claim, May 21 was a "spiritual" judgment day, and the world will still come to an end October 21, 2011.[39][40] Camping said his company would not return money donated by followers to publicize the failed May 21 prediction. "We’re not at the end. Why would we return it?"
That's from Wikipedia.
I can't wait for Oct. 22nd...
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Three strikes and you're out Camping.
No, there will always be rationalization.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Oh, I also meant to say that Camping's book says the world is only 11 thousand years old. If you need further proof that he is an idiot, read about that. His rationalizations aren't based on any real science, and the research he does to find the dates is extremely sketchy.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
that's ludicrous. Everyone knows that the actual age of the earth is closer to 6 thousand years old.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
I'm pretty sure the world is 39.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
And so is its wife and all three of its sons.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
The world has been saying that it's 39 for several million years now. It's time - past time, really - for it to get over it and accept it's age. It's not fooling anyone.
And even Jupiter has put a ring on Saturn by now. Yeah, since then, they've kind of given up, moved across the Van Allen belt to the suburbs, and both have grown bloated and gassy now, but they're happy. That's all we want for Earth...except for the people who want it to be engulfed in a ball of fire while they sit up in the balcony, laughing and eating Jesus-brand popcorn.
[ May 24, 2011, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: MrSquicky ]
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
I feel like I should mention that most Christians don't actually believe in the Rapture. It doesn't really have any scriptural support and has only been around as a teaching since the late 1700s/early 1800s.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bella Bee:
quote:I think this is a dangerous teaching, because it gives people the idea that they can keep on refusing to repent, keep on grieving the Holy Spirit away by their stubborn hard-heartedness, and yet still look forward to getting a second chance. There is no second chance.
Yeah, of course, because Jesus was all about 'no second chances'. Real tough guy, never forgave anyone's sins or accepted their penance. That's totally the basis of the Christian faith.
Look at the parable of the prodigal son. No second chances there.
Exactly right, Bella Bee. The love of God trumps everything.
MrSquicky, Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
I don't know about that, MrSquicky. I think the majority do accept it as biblical fact, but they just choose to believe it will not happen in their lifetime. The catholic church, for example, accepts it as truth, and so do most protestant sects.
However, the majority of christians do not support this one preacher's claims about the exact time for the end of the world. As it states throughout the new testament (three times that I know of), no one knows when it will happen.
Personally, I think Christians should ignore the idea of the rapture, but that's just me. The focus of their teachings should be to spread love and faith rather than fear, which is what this guy is doing. I mean, he took all those people's money and a woman tried to kill her two kids because of the whole thing. Talk about rediculous.
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
Yet from all I hear from the Evangelical folks who make the most press, if you don't believe in the rapture, you are ChINOs (Christian In Name Only).
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
Jeff, The Catholic Church does not accept the Rapture as truth, but I think what I wrote might be a little confusing.
The Rapture is the specific belief that Jesus will have two second comings, the first of which is the Rapture where the right sort of people get lifted up to Heaven with him. As I said, there's no scriptural support for this.
The Catholic Church does believe in the second coming of Jesus that heralds the end of the world. Whether Revelation is meant literally as what will happen at the end of the world is a matter of debate, though most are against this interpretation.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jake: I'm pretty sure the world is 39.
That's not quite right to me. I have no recollection of the world past 21 years ago. If the world existed, why can't I remember it, huh? Chump.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
"Three strikes and you're out Camping."
Nah. When you're talking about prophecy, it's pretty much a one-strike deal.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
This is good information about Catholic teaching about the "Rapture".
quote:If we look too eagerly for Jesus’ return on the clouds of heaven, we may pass him by too often on the street (Mt 25:31-46). It would seem that what gets left behind most in the “Left Behind” mentality is the whole Bible.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jeff C.: I don't know if anyone else noticed, but according to wikipedia, Camping has predicted a failed rapture 3 times now.
-1988 -1994 -2011
Three strikes and you're out Camping.
Not if God drops the third strike.
Posted by Flying Fish (Member # 12032) on :
Just a personal anecdote, worth little except for the sweet and precious confusion I remember feeling:
I was raised as a Catholic, and never heard anything about the Rapture in catechism classes. But one day when I was 8 or 9, I was staying at the house of some born-again relatives, including the wife of a mean adult cousin whom I loathed. She was a sweet lady, and a semi-pro gospel singer (I remember how impressed I was by seeing her record albums with her face on them). She explained The Rapture to me, and her explanation involved jet planes taking people to heaven. Even at that tender age the detail that God, All Powerful, Etc., was going to use jet planes struck me as fishy.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Lol jet planes! That's awesome.
MrSquicky, I see what you mean. Much better wording on that last post.
I assumed you were talking about Jesus' return in general because that's where my mind goes when I think of the Rapture. Easy mistake, I suppose. Now you've got me interested in the history of the Rapture in the church. I feel the need to investigate.
To the Jesus-mobile!
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Jeff, that article I linked gives some history of Rapture theories.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Bella, and some others, you misunderstand the "no second chance" idea. Of course people get plenty of chances in this life. Jesus came to give us a second chance. But people do gradually harden their hearts after repeatedly rejecting God's grace. It is possible to reject God so many times, that you are no longer able to repent, no longer able to respond to the grace of God offered by the Holy Spirit. You have grieved away the Holy Spirit to the point where He cannot reach you any more. The Apostle Paul speaks of people "whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron." (1 Timothy 4:2; NIV) Such people have joined with Satan and his fellow fallen angels. They were offered grace and forgiveness and second chances in Heaven, but they went so far by entering into open warfare against the Son of God and His angels that they are now beyond being able to repent.
Christ will not come until everyone on earth has made his or her absolutely final choice for or against God. After this point, there is no longer any reason to give altar calls. It is at this point that final probation for the human race closes. When Jesus puts on His kingly attire to return to earth, He must first take off His mediatorial clothes, and cease interceding for sinners as our High Priest.
Samprimary, you have done some historical homework. Most of the Millerites did not become Seventh-day Adventists. Those few who did, concluded that the time prophecies of Daniel 8 and 9 (especially Daniel 8:14) were correctly calculated, but they misunderstood the event that was to take place.
Daniel 8:14 says: "Unto two thousand and three hundred days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." The Millerites jumped to the conclusion that the sanctuary meant the earth, which would be cleansed by the fires associated with the coming of Christ.
However, in this they failed the first principle of sound interpretation of Bible prophecy. They did not allow the Bible to define all the symbols. The "cleansing of the sanctuary" is a clear reference to the Day of Atonement service that came once a year in the sacred services of ancient Israel, which were given by God as enacted types of various aspects and phases of the Plan of Salvation. Just as the sacrifical lambs offered daily represented Christ, the Day of Atonement on the tenth day of the seventh month was the final Day of Judgment for all of Israel. In it, God's method of making a final end of sin and cleansing the people for all time and eternity was presented.
The handful of former Millerites who went on to become Seventh-day Adventists recognized that a proper Biblical definition of the symbols involved indicated that the Day of Judgment began in Heaven in 1844, and has been progressing ever since, waiting for the presently living generation to be brought to the point of making its final decision for or against God, so they can be brought into judgment too. Only when this work is completed will Jesus be able to return.
This is why Seventh-day Adventists today see their divine mandate in the three angels' messages of Revelation 14, which begin with the first angel's message, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment IS come." (Rev. 14:7) Notice, they do not say His Judgment will come. They proclaim to all the world that the hour of God's Judgment has already begun.
Notice that Jesus said in Revelation 22:12 that when He comes "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Notice that in order for Jesus to already have rewards to give to every man according as his work shall be, the Judgment must already have taken place before His return.
Sam, in your historical homework, you perhaps failed to look into the real mystery: Why all the mainline churches kicked out from their memberships everyone who proclaimed the soon coming Second Coming of the Lord, when this has always supposedly been "the Blessed Hope" of the church.
[ May 24, 2011, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Why, if the Day of Judgment began in 1844, didn't God wait for the presently living generation(s) of that time to die off? Why let another eight generations pass?
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
Kind of tempted to jump in here, but after the whole Barack nate dhalani thing I don't see much point trying to engage with Ron.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
quote:Why all the mainline churches kicked out from their memberships everyone who proclaimed the soon coming Second Coming of the Lord, when this has always supposedly been "the Blessed Hope" of the church.
What a bizarre question. You're asking why the churches didn't agree with people who were making what we know were obviously false predictions?
There are times when it is difficult to look back at history and really pick out who was right and who was wrong, the winners from the losers. This is not one of those times.
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
Camper is explaining his mistake away as the May date was a Spiritual Due Date--last chance to get redeemed before the actual Rapture. The real end of the world is October 21st.
So I think he's doing the baseball idea of "Two Strikes, but this last one was a tip foul."
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
MrSquickt, they were not obviously false prior to 1844. The Advent Movement lasted about 30 years. Hundreds of thousands of people all around the world, when they saw how the time prophecies of Daniel 8 and 9 worked out logically, were convinced that something important had to happen in 1844. The bizarreness is why Christian churches that supposedly believed in the Second Coming of Christ as the "Blessed Hope" of the church, would cast out of their membership people who believed it was really about to take place.
Tom, in order for those presently living to enter into the Judgment, all those living on earth must be brought to the point of making their final decision for or against God. This is the purpose that will be served by the "Time of Trouble," or "Final Conflict."
There is a word used about 19 times in the Old Testament, bakon that means investigative judgment. It conveys the idea that God from Heaven judges what people do on earth, when they are tested by some kind of trial. Here is an example: "The Lord is in His holy temple, The Lord's throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men." (Psalms 11:4; NKJV) The word here translated as "test" is bakon.
The same concept is set forth even more explicitly in Jesus' letter to the church of Philadelphia, where Jesus said: "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." (Revelation 3:10; NKJV)
Darth, the proper term is "foul tip." Which is still a strike, if the catcher holds on to it. I notice you called him "Camper." Do you mean to imply that Camping is not a happy camper?
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by Darth_Mauve: Camper is explaining his mistake away as the May date was a Spiritual Due Date--last chance to get redeemed before the actual Rapture. The real end of the world is October 21st.
So I think he's doing the baseball idea of "Two Strikes, but this last one was a tip foul."
So regardless of whether we're getting in or not, we can do whatever we want for the next five months? Woohoo!!!
* Racks shotgun * Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: ... Those few who did, concluded that the time prophecies of Daniel 8 and 9 (especially Daniel 8:14) were correctly calculated, but they misunderstood the event that was to take place.
Thank goodness people today are too smart to fall for this one again.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: The bizarreness is why Christian churches that supposedly believed in the Second Coming of Christ as the "Blessed Hope" of the church, would cast out of their membership people who believed it was really about to take place.
Because what they believed about it and how they claimed to come by this knowledge was contrary to what those churches believed about scripture and revelation.
Which is pretty obvious, if you were actually looking for an answer rather than a rhetorical question.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
But dkw, nothing was contrary to what the churches believed about Scripture and Revelation. To be a Christian was (and still is) to believe in the Second Coming of Christ. The only difference was that the Millerites were saying it was really coming soon, not in some far off future thousands of years from now.
Mucus, those same time prophecies pointed to the time when Christ would appear on earth to be annointed and begin His ministry, and then three and one half years later would offer the True Sacrifice of which all the sacrifices of the Old Testament sanctuary were but types.
This was important to the apostles and all the disciples of Jesus. Paul wrote: "But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons." (Galatians 4:4; NKJV)
This is also how Jesus began His preaching, as Mark records: "Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, 'The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.'" (Mark 1:14, 15; NKJV)
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
The belief that it is possible to pull verses together to predict a date that Jesus will return is against the teaching of most churches about how the Bible is to be read and interpreted. It is "contrary to what the churches believed about Scripture and Revelation" then and now.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
quote:MrSquickt, they were not obviously false prior to 1844. The Advent Movement lasted about 30 years. Hundreds of thousands of people all around the world, when they saw how the time prophecies of Daniel 8 and 9 worked out logically, were convinced that something important had to happen in 1844. The bizarreness is why Christian churches that supposedly believed in the Second Coming of Christ as the "Blessed Hope" of the church, would cast out of their membership people who believed it was really about to take place.
I'm pretty sure a lot of people from that time would quibble with your "They didn't know it was obviously wrong then." I figure it's a lot like saying that we didn't know that Camping's predictions were ridiculous. But that's really beside the point.
We know now that it was all nonsense. Trying to cast the people who said then it was nonsense as some sort of villains is kind of crazy. I mean, dude, scoreboard.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Tom, in order for those presently living to enter into the Judgment, all those living on earth must be brought to the point of making their final decision for or against God. This is the purpose that will be served by the "Time of Trouble," or "Final Conflict."
If I'm understanding this, the only reason you and I ever got a chance to be born is due directly to the continued existence of agnostics. Thank God for agnostics.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I often do. Who do the agnostics thank?
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
The LDS faith believes in something like the Rapture I suppose. The Church calls it the First Ressurection. People aren't just plucked up, but those that are dead and worthy will be resurrected first, followed by everyone else. Christ will reign for 1,000 years on the earth, and during that time Satan will be bound. There will still be mortal beings on the Earth during that time and they will have children, however upon death people will be resurrected immediately. After 1,000 years Satan will be released for a short time to tempt those that had not been tempted before (those born during that 1,000 year period) after which the Earth will be translated and Satan will be banished from the world forever.
Or something like that. I probably have some of it wrong. Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Darth, the proper term is "foul tip." Which is still a strike, if the catcher holds on to it.
And technically, it's only a foul tip if the catcher receives the ball before it hits the ground. What happened on May 21 was clearly God fouling it into the stands on a 3-2 count. Come October 21, he'll either clear the bleachers or strike out swinging.
WHICH WILL IT BE
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Camping is not God. Thank God.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tarrsk: And technically, it's only a foul tip if the catcher receives the ball before it hits the ground. What happened on May 21 was clearly God fouling it into the stands on a 3-2 count. Come October 21, he'll either clear the bleachers or strike out swinging.
WHICH WILL IT BE
It'll probably be like this (Warning: Language).
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
My favorite webcomic take on Rapture: 2011 is Overcompensating's. There are four strips in the series. If swearing or less-than-reverent approaches to Yahweh and Jesus upset you, you'd probably be well advised to avoid clicking on the link.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:Tom, in order for those presently living to enter into the Judgment, all those living on earth must be brought to the point of making their final decision for or against God. This is the purpose that will be served by the "Time of Trouble," or "Final Conflict."
If I'm understanding this, the only reason you and I ever got a chance to be born is due directly to the continued existence of agnostics. Thank God for agnostics.
Or babies.
Whee! the apocalypse is never coming now!
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Tom, there is another way to look at this. The continued existence of misery and suffering, disease and death in this world, is the fault of those who delay the time when Jesus can come again. God never meant for there to be death at all. Every death is unnecessary. Moreover, the Holocaust suffered by the Jews in Nazi Europe happened because wicked people delayed the Second Coming of Christ. The killing fields of Cambodia, the many attempts at "Ethnic Cleansing" that have taken place in the world, the millions who died of the bubonic plague, the massive natural disasters that swept away thousands, the wars that swept away millions--all this need not have happened had not the Second Coming of Christ been delayed. There never should have been slavery in America, nor should there have been any need for the horrible bloodbath of the Civil War that ended slavery. There never should have been accidents by air, land, or sea. Of course, this indicts not only evil-doers and agnostics; it also indicts those who would claim to be faithful worshipers of God, because their failure to perform the duty God has given them to do in the world to be faithful witnesses of His goodness and reach everyone with the gospel and allow everyone to make their final decision for or against God, also delays Christ's coming. Christ does not want to come until His professed followers are ready, and until everyone has had a fair chance to be saved. As the Apostle Peter testified, "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9; NKJV)
God will not wait forever, however. He must weigh the continued existence of evil itself with all its consequences of suffering and death, with His desire to give people as much time as possible to repent and turn back to Him. There will come a time when God will begin to withdraw all His still remaining restraining influence against evil, and the resultant progression of events will lead to a final, open warfare between those who side with evil, and those who side with God. Boycotts will be threatened against all those who refuse to compromise with the prevailing false religion of creature-worship, and eventually the death decree will be issued against all who remain faithful to the Creator and refuse to obey laws that contradict His laws. In the midst of this final conflict, every soul everywhere on earth will be forced to reach the point of making a final decision for or against God. Then human probation closes. Then Christ will return.
[ May 26, 2011, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Ron: You explanation does not make sense to me in light of the fact that God knows what everyone is going to do before it is done. God knowing the future most certainly has a plan set in stone, and all of our actions while not necessarily adjusted for, were certainly on his mind when God executed it.
God can't be surprised by an outcome or never intend something in the sense he didn't see it coming. He might want something else to have happened but be required to allow us to act as agents to ourselves.
Saying God has to push the date back because of stuff we are doing is to say that God is held captive by what we do, and that we exert control over God as a species. By that logic if any man or woman was convinced that they did not like the world God was offering, they would be obligated to fight against God's objectives as revealed in Christianity so as to keep that reality from happening.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
So if I side with, say
- keeping America a secular nation
or
- gay marriage
i'm siding with 'evil' right
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
You know, those things might be God's will. In fact, I am pretty sure they are. So, not so evil. You are working towards the Kingdom of God. Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
quote: God never meant for there to be death at all.
You know, he didn't have to put that tree there. I'm sure there was somewhere else it would have looked just as nice.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I much prefer rejecting God and external morality and substituting your own internal morality.
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: I much prefer rejecting... external morality and substituting your own internal morality.
So do I!
*Tortures Blayne to death.*
Delightful! Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
The path to being an ubermensch requires much of such struggle, but murdering god is pretty good pay off.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
Come on, the Gods left us...they took their advanced tech, got back on their ships, and left...only returning for the gold bribe the U.S. government is paying them to keep them away. Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Bella, in all the planet, there was only one single thing that was forbidden. One single tree. How is that so unfair? Adam and Eve were given the same freedom of choice the angels were given, and that God possesses Himself. How can that freedom of choice be real if there is no possibility for disobedience?
Of course, it was not the tree itself that doomed Adam and Eve. Satan, speaking through a snake that he possessed, deceived Eve, encouraging her to think that God might be keeping back from her something really good. Without this temptation, Eve probably would never even have conceived the idea of doubting God's goodness, in view of the goodness of Paradise all around her that God had given them to live in and enjoy. It was doubting God's goodness that led her to disobey God's one and only prohibition.
But again, Satan was only allowed to tempt Eve with his lies and half-truths at that one place, at the one forbidden tree. Had God not allowed even that--prevented Satan from having any access to humanity at all--then Satan would have claimed that God was being unfair to him.
You see, there is a great dispute between God and Satan, and in order to put a final end to sin so it never arises again, He must prove Satan wrong to the satisfaction of all other intelligent beings God has made in the universe, on other worlds as well as the angels. In order to do this, God has chosen to give Satan enough rope to hang himself with, so to speak.
Posted by Slavim (Member # 12546) on :
God has to prove things? That's not a very glorious role you give your god.
Do you have any kids Ron? Let's say you expose two electrical wires in the middle of a room and tell your 3 year old to not touch them, given your kid has no comprehension of electricity. Then you allow another 3 year old to play with the same colorful, fun, but not hot wires in the corner tempting your kid of doing the same. Then your kid touches the electrified wires and dies. Is it the 3 year old's fault or yours?
How about instead of hooking the wires up to the grid's 110V line, you connect them to a little battery operated zapper and when your kid touches the wires, being tempted by the other kid, it learns a very valuable lesson?
See, if you don't understand the consequences of a choice, you're not making the choice... and it's not free will.
And also the whole thing where I bare the sin of one person's choice, let's say 6000 years ago is also kind of bizarre for my brain. Would you torment and beat your 3 year old because your high school kid got a girl pregnant? Or extradite the baby when it's born to survive on its own in Uganda because of it's father's bad choice?
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Slavim, there is even a formal theological term for what I am advocating: theodicy. It means God voluntarily allows Himself to be put on trial.
God maintains that He, as Creator, is the only standard of true righteousness. Satan disputed this, and claimed that angels, since they were created with perfect natures, were just as righteous as God. So he broke with God and went his own way, advocating that those who followed him could evolve into godhood in their own right.
Had God simply destroyed Satan, then all the other intelligent creatures in the universe might have in the back of their minds the question, "Could it be that Satan was right? Is God unfair and selfish, reserving some things only to Himself arbitrarily?"
The only way God can answer Satan's charges and accusations and inuendoes to the satisfaction of all other intelligent beings--and still respect their freedom of choice--is for Him to allow a complete demonstration of the truth, revealing the working out of the true nature of the system of belief Satan was advocating. And in the process, God demonstrated His own unselfishness and self-sacrificing love by the means in which He found a way to save humanity without compromising His justice.
When the unfallen angels and other sentient beings throughout the universe witnessed Satan exulting in glee at the torment and murder of the Son of God, their last shred of sympathy with Satan was severed.
Now all that remains is for the last part of God's demonstration to be completed: the demonstration that righteousness, and fitness to live in the harmonious society of God's universe, does not depend upon nature, but upon faith--having whole-hearted faith in the goodness of God. The universe will never be rendered eternally secure by the notion that creatures have to be perfect in nature. What must be realized by all is that God alone is Good. God alone is righteousness. Even for the unfallen angels, and all other unfallen beings throughout the universe, their only true righteousness is the righteousness that is by faith. This is why the truth of justification by faith in the righteousness of Christ is of such crucial importance to the entire universe. And it is God's still imperfect people here on earth who have a central role in demonstrating this.
The perfection God seeks in His people is the perfecting of their faith. As the Psalmist prayed under inspiration: "Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name. I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore." (Psalms 86:11, 12)
Jesus affirmed the same thing as being all-important when He said: "However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8b; NASB)
This perfection of faith is what God desires to see in His people here on earth. It is this that will provide eternal security for the entire universe: Creatures trusting not in their perfect natures, but having perfect faith in the goodness of the only One who is righteous--God, their Creator.
As Ellen G. White said, "Angelic perfection failed in Heaven. Human perfection failed in Eden." Lucifer was perfect when sin was found in him and became Satan. Adam and Eve were perfect when they sinned. Thus perfection of nature is no assurance. We must have whole-hearted faith in the goodness of God. Even those beings who have never sinned can have eternal security only through the righteousness that is by faith in the Goodness of God. God is the standard. Not any of us.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
quote:When the unfallen angels and other sentient beings throughout the universe witnessed Satan exulting in glee at the torment and murder of the Son of God, their last shred of sympathy with Satan was severed.
How can you speak for "other sentient beings throughout the universe" as to their knowledge or beliefs?
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Slavim, there is even a formal theological term for what I am advocating: theodicy. It means God voluntarily allows Himself to be put on trial.
Theodicy is the branch of theology/philosophy that attempts to reconcile the idea of an omnipotent and good God with the existence of evil. It does not refer specifically to the view you are advocating.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
quote: It means God voluntarily allows Himself to be put on trial.
God maintains that He, as Creator, is the only standard of true righteousness. Satan disputed this, and claimed that angels, since they were created with perfect natures, were just as righteous as God. So he broke with God and went his own way, advocating that those who followed him could evolve into godhood in their own right.
If God is the creator of everything, God created Satan. If he created Satan, and he is omnipotent, then he must have known that he was creating a being which would decide to challenge his goodness. If he didn't know what Satan had the potential to do, he's not omnipotent. But if God created Satan with this in mind...
Doesn't that mean that God is essentially playing a game of chess with himself that he can't lose, and we're all just the pawns?
That sounds pretty cruel and egotistical, even if it does have a happy ending for the chosen few.
That is, assuming that God wouldn't create a being who could actually win and destroy him. Which, if God is in control of the universe, would bring everything to an end. But if he wouldn't create a being who could beat him, where is it a fair fight?
(In case anyone's wondering, I'm an Atheist, not a Satanist. This is interesting to me only on a philosophical level.)
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
So God creates beings with free will...the ability to choose not to do what he wants them to. Satan decides he can become as powerful as God and that he knows better, then God allows Satan to try, to prove to everyone who he created that God is unbeatable, meanwhile Satan is introducing evil wholesale into the world, causing all kinds of badnesses for us little folk while God is...what?...letting us choose Him and capitalize the "h" in His pronouns and such?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
If you know someone is going to steal a car in a week, is it fair to put them in prison before they commit the act?
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
If you know that someone is going to cause the deaths of millions, is it fair to stop them before they do?
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
I'm with Bella Bee in that this philosophical discussion for me, as I don't believe in Judeo/Christian God or Satan at all.
But if I'm understanding this right, God gave Satan a free hand to try and ruin humanity's morality/eternal soul to prove a point. Sounds less then awesome.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: If you know someone is going to steal a car in a week, is it fair to put them in prison before they commit the act?
I really don't know. But if we're going to consider punishment for crimes not yet committed...why not avoid the crime instead? Since, after all, you (the one foreseeing) have many possible choices. Get an alarm, put it in a garage, go tell the guy, "Don't steal my car," move the car elsewhere, etc.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Satan doesn't have the power to cause spiritual death.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Satan has to rely upon deception and intimidation. As Jesus said, "Satan is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44; last part)
God knew that the issues involved with sin would eventually have to be dealt with. There was only one responsible and totally honest and fair way for Him to do this. The fact that Satan is called Lucifer, the morning star, may imply that Lucifer was the first angel that God created. Thus God reveals Himself to be proactive. He wanted to get over with it ASAP.
Yes, God knew that Lucifer would be the one to become Satan. Allowing it to happen does not mean that God is weak. Preventing it from ever happening would defeat His purpose of having a universe governed by love, because that requires that all His intelligent creatures must have true freedom of choice, because love requires freedom of choice. Where there is no freedom of choice, there can be no love, but only the programming of robots.
From the beginning of His creation of the universe, God knew what the cost would be. He chose to pay it. This is why His Son, as an extension of Himself, is called "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth." (Revelation 13:8; last part) God had to demonstrate self-sacrificing love in order to prove Himself worthy of the love of His creatures, and refute Satan's insinuations that God was selfish.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: But if I'm understanding this right, God gave Satan a free hand to try and ruin humanity's morality/eternal soul to prove a point. Sounds less then awesome.
I don't know if you are understanding Ron right, but what you state here is certainly not the way I understand Christian teachings on freewill. My understanding is that God chose to create individual beings with freewill because it was good. Such a great good, in fact, that it was worth all the problems (which are many and evident) that go with it. I believe the particular good in question is, in fact, love.
Removing human freewill from the equation would seem to make "love" another dangerous and violence-inducing delusion alongside Richard Dawkins' version of God, albeit a more evolutionarily useful one.
ETA: I should perhaps note (as I haven't really participated in serious discussion here in a while) that I am a lapsed Catholic... meaning I no longer consider myself a proponent of that faith, but it does infuse my understanding of Christianity.
[ May 29, 2011, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Jim-Me ]
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:...because that requires that all His intelligent creatures must have true freedom of choice, because love requires freedom of choice. Where there is no freedom of choice, there can be no love, but only the programming of robots.
It cannot fairly be said that people with two main choices, "Love God and obey," or, "Suffer eternal damnation," have 'true freedom of choice'. They've got a choice, yes, but that's not the same thing. No more than you would have a real choice over whether or not to give me $100 if I clapped a loaded gun to your head and said, "Your money or your life, Mr. Lambert!"
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
You know, the thing about Adam and Eve and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, is that it seems, on the very face of it, to contradict Ron's point.
Presumable Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil prior to partaking of the tree, they did not have the same choice as the angels and God himself had (since they would have the knowledge; at least God certainly would).
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:Satan has to rely upon deception and intimidation.
This struck me as strange too. The difference between God and Satan would not be that God doesn't use intimidation, when clearly He does. Perhaps it's intimidation out of love, but if you posit an omnipotent God you cannot possibly say that He doesn't attempt to intimidate.
ETA: Well, y'know lemme amend that: Ron cannot possibly say that He doesn't attempt to intimidate, given what he's espoused is God's outlook as expressed to us human beings. But I have no doubt that's exactly what will happen: things that would be, if committed by human beings to other human beings would certainly be intimidation, won't be because God is doin' it.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
God did not kill Satan, though He says He will eventually. Instead, God has allowed Satan to continue on for thousands of years. Likewise God does not strike down evil-doers in this world immediately, other than allowing them to suffer the natural consequences of their actions and attitudes. This allows them to suppose that maybe God doesn't really mean what He says.
He warned His creatures what would be the end result of turning against their Creator, since He is the Source of all life, and they cannot exist apart from Him. But those who rebell choose to doubt Him. Satan said to Eve in Eden, "Ye shall not surely die!" (Genesis 3:4)
The day will come when God has had enough of bearing the burden of knowing intimately, from the inside out, the experience of devils and hateful humans in their evil. From the Nazi death camp guard forcing large groups of people into the gas chambers, to the victims themselves, He knows the experience of evil because He sustains our lives from moment to moment. "For in Him we live and move and have our being...." (Acts 17:28a)
The Bible does not say that Adam and Eve did not know what sin was. "Know" is a word with more than one meaning in the Bible. Know often means experience. Adam and Eve did not know what sin was by experience. God was honest with them and told them all He could. But they chose to doubt Him anyway. Like Satan Himself, they thought that maybe if enough of His creatures joined in opposition, God would be forced to change His mind. Adam presumed on God's love for him, thinking that if he joined Eve in transgression, God would have to save Eve in order to save him. Satan thought that if he could get enough angels to join with him, God would never remove all of them from existence. Likewise he thinks that if he can get enough humans to side with him in having hostility against God, God would have to change His mind about upholding righteous judgment. This is the kind of presumption that evil people make all the time. "Everybody does it. So let's see if we can change the law."
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
It really bugs me the way Ron speaks with such confidence as to the inner mind workings of...all intelligent life in the universe, God, Adam, Satan, evil doers, the righteous, etc.
Maybe Ron has some really really good ESP (like able to go back in time good).
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I wrote a huge sacastic post about what a great dude God is for loving us to torturous deaths, but honestly most of the people in this thread aren't defending the actions of a-- said being--, so we're all good.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Stone_Wolf_, the Bible explains a lot of things if you take it seriously as the Word of God. I hope that as I present these things that clearly answer so many of the questions people frequently raise from what I have learned from Scripture, it will become apparent how much sense the Biblical view of everything makes.
Also Ellen G. White, whom most Adventists believe had the prophetic gift, was given many visions of things as well, such as the career of Lucifer in Heaven. For example she described many meetings in Heaven between the Son of God and Lucifer before he had gone too far, urging him to reconsider his course. I do not base anything that I believe on what she said, but she does illuminate a lot of things. Ellen G. White was permitted to see other worlds, where there also were placed trees of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and she was told that no one on those worlds have touched their world's forbidden tree. It only happened on earth. Humanity is the only race that has fallen, besides of course about one-third of the angels.
Teshi, it is only possible to have such a negative view of God if you are ignorant of the truth about Him. You have believed lies and distortions and Satanic propaganda, designed to flatter your ego, just as he flattered Eve with his sophistries in Eden, as revealed in Genesis. Do not fall for this. God will reveal Himself to you as He truly is, if you are willing to have your opinions changed, and honestly seek to know Him.
Do you really think so many people would love Him if they believed the things you believe about Him? Do you really think all these millions of people are stupid, and only atheists are intelligent? Even Satan believes in God. He laughs at people who fall for the deception that He doesn't exist, or even worse, those who fall for his attempt to invest God with the attributes of character that are really his own.
[ May 30, 2011, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
quote: Even Satan believes in God.
I imagine that after meeting someone face to face, it's quite difficult not to believe in them. I believe in my postman's existence for the same reason. However, for me, since don't believe in Satan, the idea that Satan believes in God is not terribly convincing.
quote: I do not base anything that I believe on what she said, but she does illuminate a lot of things... Humanity is the only race that has fallen, besides of course about one-third of the angels.
This doesn't make sense to me. You don't base anything you believe on what she said, but you believe what she said, and that changes your view of humanity in the universe? Eh?
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
No, Bella, I only claim as truth what the Bible reveals. Ellen G. White merely expands or illuminates a few things--but even then they can be inferred from Scripture. She does not change my view of humanity in the universe. John Milton in his epic poem, "Paradise Lost," depicts from inference some of the same things that Ellen G. White said. They are logical inferences that can be made by anyone familiar with the Bible.
For example, the Apostle Paul wrote: "...we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.." (1 Corinthians 4:9; last part) The Greek word here translated as "world" is kosmo, from which comes our word for universe, cosmos. This interpretation seems confirmed by the fact that "angels" are used as correlates, and the unfallen angels are not native to earth at all. The word is translated as universe in the NIV.
Since we are made a spectacle or theatre to the whole universe, angels as well as intelligent creatures like man elsewhere throughout the universe (which is what this text seems to imply), this further implies that mankind on earth is unique, in that we only have fallen of all the planetary intelligences. Otherwise, why would we stand out and be of such interest to everyone else in the universe?
There is another text in the Bible that also implies that intelligent beings exist on other worlds, Job 38:4-7 (quoted from the NASB):
quote:"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding, Who set its measurements, since you know? Or who stretched the line on it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?"
Here God is challenging Job for getting too uppity. He even uses a bit of sarcastic irony. Notice the last two clauses, "When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy." Comparison of Scripture with Scripture will show that stars are frequently used as synonyms or even symbols for angels (see Revelation 1:20; 12:4, 7). Obviously the text in Job is not talking about literal stars, since it says they sang together when the earth was first created. Who then are the "sons of God who shouted for joy" at the same time? In the genealogy in Luke, Adam is said to be the "son of God." (Luke 3:38) Obviously, this is because God made him.
Now, when the foundations of the earth were first being laid, Adam did not exist yet. So who were these other "sons of God" who "shouted for joy"? The only answer that makes sense is that they must be equivalents to Adam, the original progenitors of their races, on other worlds.
[ May 30, 2011, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: ... Obviously the text in Job is not talking about literal stars, since it says they sang together when the earth was first created.
I don't follow, how does this step work? Is "sang" a synonym for "created" in this context?
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Mucus, sang means sang. Angels sing. Multitudes of angels sang at Christ's birth. (See Luke 2:13.)
In Job 38:7, the angels are depicted as singing in celebration of God's creative work during Creation Week on earth. And with them the intelligent beings on other worlds shouted for joy. All are able to witness what transpires on earth.
It is also reasonable to infer from Job 38:7 that mankind on earth is the most recent race of intelligent beings created by God.
In case a popular erroneous belief might be causing confusion for some people, humans do not become angels when they die. Angels and humans are two distinct types of creatures. The Psalmist declared: "What is man that You are mindful of him, And the son of man that You visit him? For You have made him a little lower than the angels, And You have crowned him with glory and honor." (Psalms 8:4, 5; NKJV)
The Bible clearly states that mankind is flesh and blood. That is how he was created. But the author of Hebrews says that the angels are spirits: "But to which of the angels has He ever said: 'Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool'? Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?" (Hebrews 1:13, 14)
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Bumping this thread because, well, I'm not getting Ice Cream Sandwich or something.
quote:Radio preacher says Rapture is coming Friday. For sure this time
Harold Camping says the “real” rapture day is approaching, with Oct. 21, 2011, now predicted to be the day of judgment, according the radio host and preacher.
Call it Rapture 2011 — Take 2.
Camping, 90, has admitted that his previous prediction of a May 21, 2011 apocalypse was wrong due to an error in calculation.
What, they expect me to give up all my worldly possessions again?!? Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Surely it'll be much easier this time. How much loot could you have accrued in so short a time?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Hmmm, does anyone know the exact time this is supposed to happen? They seem more tight-lipped this time.
quote:This time, the ministry and its 90-year-old leader, Harold Camping, have avoided the media and perhaps a repeat of the international mockery that followed when believers awoke on May 22 to find themselves still on Earth.
“I'm sorry to disappoint you, but we at Family Radio have been directed to not talk to the media or the press,” Mr. Camping's daughter Susan Espinoza wrote in response to an email request about Friday's doomsday scenario.
Calls to the ministry in Oakland Thursday went to voicemail and were unreturned. Several followers who were contacted also declined comment.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas/apocalypse-is-today-us-christian-group-says-after-recalculating-math/article2208930/
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
we're all still alive? by god, says harold camping (played by van damme) - quick, i have to check my notes!
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