So I'm trying to do this whole... eat healthy and exercise thing. Blech. It's hard because it's not that I'm especially unhealthy. I don't eat horribly and I walk a lot. Weight wise I'm fine, perhaps even a bit underweight. But, I want to start really trying to take care of myself and actually be healthy, not just not unhealthy. And I'm stick thin as well and wouldn't mind putting on some muscle. I'd always kind of hoped that it would just *happen*, but I'm turning 24 next month and it hasn't yet, so I figured I should take measures into my own hands.
That, and my New Years resolution was to resolve to work out. So far its been going well... the resolve has been building. So I figured I'd try to use some of it on actual action.
I'm going to start doing push up and sit ups and the like - start small, that kinda stuff. But from what I hear, eating right is actually pretty important to building weight and being healthy. Specifically, I heard a rumor that protein was the way to go. And that's fine with me - as long as its not broccoli or green stuff. And then I hear (don't ask me where I hear this stuff...) that eggs are a good source of protein! Yay! I love eggs. Yum.
But now I'm hearing that too many eggs is actually bad for you. It seemed like a topic that was sort of in flux and not agreed upon by everyone though, so I was wondering if anyone on Hatrack had any advice on whether or not my egg binge (I just ate 4...) is counterproductive to my goals.
[ July 08, 2012, 05:41 AM: Message edited by: Dr Strangelove ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Eggs are a good, cheap source of protein.
And of fat, and cholesterol. How much that matters depends on your diet overall, and your personal and family history when it comes to cholesterol, and to lipids in general.
Have you had a general checkup in the last year? If not, and you are insured, I suggest one. It should include a general blood panel, and I'd request a referral to a nutritionist.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
What about just having egg whites?
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
Gross!
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
Just don't try to eat chicken only. I did, for like three months and then started to hate it. I love beef now Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I'm with rivka. Whether or not eggs are healthy or unhealthy depends on your individual body. Dietary cholesterol is an issue for about 10% of the population, for the rest of us it probably doesn't matter. Since you are in your mid-twenties and thin, the fat in eggs probably isn't a problem but it's a good idea to have blood work up to make sure. A basic physical is a good idea for anyone embarking on a new health and fitness plan, particularly if you haven't had one in a few years.
Your apparent aversion to "green stuff" is a much more likely to cause health problems than eating eggs. If you are at all typical of Americans, you're getting more than enough protein and what you really need for your health and building muscle is more fruits and vegetables -- particular those green vegetables you want to avoid.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: Your apparent aversion to "green stuff" is a much more likely to cause health problems than eating eggs. If you are at all typical of Americans, you're getting more than enough protein and what you really need for your health and building muscle is more fruits and vegetables -- particular those green vegetables you want to avoid.
All true, but I was going to let the nutritionist tell him that. Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
*sigh*. I know, I know... My wife keeps me pretty greened up. I just dislike it. Though I think because I don't like it and am so conscious of it, I probably do a better job forcing myself to eat greens than I do other parts of my diet. Not that I eat enough, but it never gets completely neglected.
As far as getting a checkup, I do really need to do that. It's probably been 5 or 6 years, maybe longer. I've just kept putting it off. But now when I do go I will be sure to ask about health stuff!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Don't eggbeaters have the same protein without the fat and cholesterol issues?
Personally I like to hardboil them and eat the whites, but I'm not sure if that removes any of the protein value.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Don't eggbeaters have the same protein without the fat and cholesterol issues?
For those who need to watch their cholesterol, they're a good substitution. However, they take "cheap" out of the equation, so if cholesterol is not an issue, why bother with them? They also are not as tasty as the real McCoy.
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Personally I like to hardboil them and eat the whites, but I'm not sure if that removes any of the protein value.
Not a significant amount.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
A little over 40% of the protein is in the yoke. Here is a break down.
Unless you have a diet linked cholesterol problem, there is little reason to throw away the yokes. Yes, that's where all the fat is but its also where all the vitamins, minerals and essential fatty acids are.
Egg yolks have been unfairly demonized.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
"I'm not as bad as you've heard, just try me, first time is free."
Laughs evil egg yoke evilly. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: Egg yolks have been unfairly demonized.
That is certainly true. I had thought they had a much smaller fraction of the protein, though.
Also, they're delicious. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Also, yoke v. yolk.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr Strangelove: So I'm trying to do this whole... eat healthy and exercise thing. Blech . . . And I'm stick thin as well and wouldn't mind putting on some muscle. I'd always kind of hoped that it would just *happen* . . . And that's fine with me - as long as its not broccoli or green stuff.
I thought this was a joke thread. Is it not?
So, the practical advice that you don't want to hear: - Your attitude is the main problem. You need to commit to a lifestyle change. You're unlikely to succeed if you're negative. - Muscle doesn't "just happen". It takes a lot of hard work and study, and no one can do it for you. Spend some time on Bodybuilding.com and learn the basics on exercise and nutrition. - You need to start getting over your aversion to healthy foods. Maybe they haven't been prepared right? Maybe you haven't given them a chance? But an open minded adult should be able to enjoy over 80% of the foods out there -- including veggies. - To gain muscle, you will need to meet a minimum amount of protein for muscle growth, begin some serious training at a gym or equivalent (no, push ups and situps won't usually cut it), and take in more calories than you burn. - You can get the protein from any source, but some of the most efficient are chicken, turkey, fish, and eggs. Don't eat too much of any one thing, or you're likely to burn out. The following link will give you a run down on protein and how much you'll need daily: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/maki1.htm Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I perhaps made myself out to be more recalcitrant than I actually am. I am in reality a healthy, athletic person. I don't drink soda, I rarely eat fast food, I can run several miles quite easily, and I do, in fact, eat vegetables. For the most part I find their taste unappetizing and would prefer to be eating bread, cheese, or fish (my favorite foods) but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with my aversion to them, as long as I do eat them. Which I do.
As far as exercising, I couldn't care less if I look muscular or anything like that. If push ups and situps are worthless, thats that, I won't worry about it. But I can tell you that I have neither the time nor inclination to go to a gym. What is the actual point of exercising anyways? I'm a historian so the most strength I technically need is to lift boxes of books and documents (which can get very heavy, mind you). I'm mostly being facetious there, but if the only way to build muscle is to spend hours a day at a gym, it just isn't happening.
All I'm really trying to do is be more intentional about my health. Aros, you make it sound like to be healthy I have to be some obsessive health nut/muscle head, and if the options are that or do nothing, guess which I'm gonna choose? But I'm pretty sure there's a third option, which is gradually get into the habit of exercising and making sure I get all of the right nutrients and go from there.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
No, you don't have to be an obsessive health nut. Unfortunately, there's a ton of misinformation. A few hours with a good trainer or a fair amount of online research can dispel it.
A couple of points:
- Looking "muscular" is different from looking toned and healthy. And if you're just trying to look good, you have a few options. A gym is a great place to start, but you don't have to spend "hours". Between a half hour and an hour, three times per week, is enough to pack it on if you're doing it right. Without a gym, cheap, used home equipment can work. Pull ups and dips will really transform your upper body (but it's hard to work up to pull ups without some time at the gym).
- Wouldn't we all prefer eating other things? I would prefer eating cheesecake, but I'm not going to stuff my face with it every day. It's not healthy to spend all of our time eating what we "like". Food should be relished, yes, but do you honestly think it's healthy to eat your favorite foods every day? I like to drink alcohol, but I'm not going to down a pint of booze every day because I enjoy it (well, I COULD, but it won't do much for my health).
- You talk about wanting to be healthy, and then you ask "what is the point of exercising anyways". What's the point in shaving? What's the point in reading? What's the point in using deodorant? The point is that modern human beings don't get the exercise that we're designed to get, and we won't be healthy if we don't supplant it with some aerobic and anaerobic exercise. If you were on a deep space mission, you'd have to exercise to keep from wasting away. The modern lifestyle is much the same, just a bit less dramatic.
It all depends on your goals. Any doctor would recommend 30 minutes of exercise AT LEAST three days a week for health. If you can do that without going to a gym, good on you. If you don't want to build muscle, forget about the protein -- just eat right and get ANY Type of exercise (biking, jogging, whatever you enjoy). If you do want to build muscle, learn the basics of strength training and supplement protein (see my other link).
I used hand weights (25 lbs) and hitting the heavy bag + protean (pick your poison) intake.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
It's the diet part that always screws me up.
I've done the whole 3-4 days a week of lifting and saw some good improvements in the weight I could lift, but never a change in physical appearance, which was disheartening. I worked out religiously for 6 months and never saw a change, so I lost focus and changed back to three days a week of cardio. I'm guessing it was the diet I was screwing up the whole time, but I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong, and didn't have the time to fix it.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
If you lift an amount of weight you can handle many times your muscles become tone and fit (they have stamina), where as if you lift big ol' weights that challenge you, you put on muscle bulk (they can lift more weight)...at least that's what I was always told in weight rooms.
If you are trying to look more muscly, you need to take in a lot of protean and lift (carefully) as much as you can handle (with a knowledgeable spotter).
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
That's what I've read as well, and that's what I did, but it never really went anywhere.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
You need to be eating enough. Basically, you need to eat more calories than you burn. If you're not lifting (or not lifting enough), they turn into fat. If you are lifting but not getting enough protein, they'll turn into fat. If you are lifting AND getting enough protein, they'll turn into some combination of fat and muscle. The faster you put on weight, the higher the proportion of fat to muscle. If you're not gaining weight (fat or muscle), you aren't eating enough.
Basically, you have to go through bulking stages, where you'll put on both muscle and fat, then go through cutting stages, where you'll lose muscle and fat. The goal is to put on more muscle during bulking and lose more fat during cutting, becoming increasingly muscular in the long term.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Developing muscle large well defined muscles is not simply a matter of doing the right exercises and eating the right foods. There is also a lot of individual physiology involved. Some people naturally develop well defined muscle bulk and some people don't.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
protean = fickle protein = that stuff you use to build muscle
Posted by ambyr (Member # 7616) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aros: Wouldn't we all prefer eating other things? I would prefer eating cheesecake, but I'm not going to stuff my face with it every day. It's not healthy to spend all of our time eating what we "like". Food should be relished, yes, but do you honestly think it's healthy to eat your favorite foods every day?
I think this is an unhealthy, in the mental sense, approach to food.
I mean, no, of course we can't live on cheesecake alone. The solution here is not to tell ourselves sternly that we have to buck up and eat things we hate; it's to find foods we like that are also healthy, to experiment with new ingredients and preparations, to expand our list of favorite foods. Turning eating into a chore, into a battleground between "good" and "bad" impulses, leads nowhere good.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
I asked if it was healthy to eat your favorite foods every day, didn't I? And in an earlier post, I stated that most people should be able to like at least 80% of food out there -- if they give it a chance.
There's a world of super-tasty, healthy choices out there, if people would give them a chance. From yams and summer squash, to artichokes and avocados, from broccolini and sprouts, to exotic fruits and nuts.
Posted by ambyr (Member # 7616) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aros: I asked if it was healthy to eat your favorite foods every day, didn't I?
All right, and I'll answer: YES, I think it is healthy to eat your favorite foods every day.
(I also think cheesecake is pretty gross, so we're coming from different places, I suppose.)
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
This thread had a lot of potential. The first few posts were great and got me excited to participate. But then it devolved a little into an argument.
Aros, it was a valiant effort brother (or sister, I honestly can't tell from the screenname, no offense LOL), but as soon as Dr S said the phrase "obsessive...musclehead" you had already lost him.
Dr S, i don't think it's fair to say "obsessed musclehead" when no one would call a great musician an "obsessed musicbrain" or a legendary surgeon a "scalpel junkie" would we?
Someone who spends their time honing their body to do what they want it to do should be afforded the same general good manners, no?
That doesn't mean YOU have to be a top NPC bodybuilder, but you DID start this thread to express interest in fitness and a healthy lifestyle.
I agree with most of your points Aros, except perhaps about bodybuilding.com
There are some decent articles about the basics on the supersite, and Jamie Eason has some informative videos, but god help us if anyone stumbles across the forums over there and thinks that THAT is what "gym people" are like!
Seriously, everybody, stay away from the bb.com forum, you WILL be dumber when you leave.
Also, "taking in more calories than you burn" is a bit of an oversimplification, but for his purposes, it works and I understand why you phrased it that way.
Dr S, you seemed to get a little defensive with Aros when he criticized your attitude. Perhaps giving him attitude about your attitude was not the best way to defend your attitude? Just a thought.
You're not under any intrinsic obligation to put on muscle by any means, of course. But from your first post, can you see why Aros would think you had interest in it?
quote: my New Years resolution was to resolve to work out
quote: I'm stick thin as well and wouldn't mind putting on some muscle. I'd always kind of hoped that it would just *happen*, but I'm turning 24 next month and it hasn't yet, so I figured I should take measures into my own hands.
quote: So I'm trying to do this whole... eat healthy and exercise thing.
So you can see why he'd give you advice on how to go about learning about gaining muscle through exercise, yes?
No, it doesn't take hours and hours in the gym every day. That is a philosophy from the 70's, popularized by the golden age guys like Arnold, Franco Columbu, Robby Robinson, Bill Grant, and Leon Brown.
That simply is not the case. In fact, if you split up your bodypart routines efficiently, you can get in and out (as Aros said) in half an hour to an hour tops.
I do, however, totally disagree that three times a week is enough. If you aim for three times a week, you will get to the gym exactly twice. You will go to the gym twice and you will quit. This is not an indictment of you, I am speaking as a person who worked in gyms for years and watched people do it over and over and over and over.
To get started, you should go every day. Every single day for a month, go for half an hour. Then it will be a habit and one that you look forward to, at that.
The very first time your wife says "Wow your abs look great" or you catch her running her hands over your traps, you'll be bit by the bug and you'll look forward to going. (Yes, I know she says she loves you just the way you are, and that she doesn't care about muscle. Everyone's wife says that, that's why we love them, because they always love us. BUT, to be fair, she's never seen you with muscle on your frame. She's going to love the new fit you just as much as the now skinny you. If you put on muscle, and she DOESN'T like it, I will put on a pink dress and post a youtube video of my public admission that I was wrong.)
Even when you start seeing it in the mirror for yourself, you'll get hooked.
Going three times a week won't cut it, though. Too much time between workouts. You won't go back. No one would.
Once you're bit by the bug, start taking one day a week off. I take sundays off. Monday through Saturday, i go.
If you're into the functional aspect of getting into shape, there are entire gyms that are dedicated just to that. Versatile Fitness comes readily to mind.
Perhaps it's the idea of being IN a gym rather than outdoors that bothers you? If that's the case, there's some great info and videos on rosstraining.com He even has a book called "Never Gymless" that might be right up your alley if that's the case.
As far as the eggs are concerned, one thing to consider is that Omega eggs are almost the same price as other eggs, and have Omega 3 fats in them, which promote healthy cholesterol levels. You can get them pretty much anywhere you get other eggs. I get mine from food lion or walmart. The difference in price is literally in the $0.25-$0.50 cent range per dozen in my experience.
I also supplement with pasteurized egg whites (though as rivka said, it takes the "cheap" part out of it). I use the AllWhites brand and just pour them into a glass of milk and drink them. Pasteurized egg whites have no taste and have the consistency of water. So you don't have to gag at the prospect of drinking a glass of milk and snot LOL
Remember that Aros was right when he said that muscle doesn't just happen. But that's true about most things worth accomplishing. You have to decide on what you want, and take steps to make it happen.
I even wrote an article a few years back called "Major Changes" in which I wrote my own personal philosophy that major changes require major changes. To see it in your body, you will need to show it in your life.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
Wow, that's a lot of focus on your traps! I'm assuming that there's less focus on arms, chest, etc because of trap compound exercises?
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aros: Wow, that's a lot of focus on your traps! I'm assuming that there's less focus on arms, chest, etc because of trap compound exercises?
I wish it was that elegant. Just stubborn traps and calves LOL
[ June 20, 2012, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: odouls268 ]
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
Well, The Rabbit was certainly right -- genetics do come into play a lot. I have huge pecs and traps without trying, but my arms look like string beans. I'd trade you problems any day.
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
Fine, but you have to take my bushy eyebrows too haha
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Thanks for all the advice everyone, really. I apologize if I was a bit snippy earlier. Though I do think next time I see a serious surgeon I'm going to call him (or her) a scalpel junkie, just for the fun of it.
I am interested in the further-down-the-road stuff (like going to the gym regularly). It's just not in the cards right now.* Maybe my initial post was misleading, but I'm not going for "major change," and I don't expect a lot of results from the small amounts of change I am currently able to make. I just want to make sure that the changes I am making are the right ones, and I am definitely open to advice on future and/or better changes. In terms of major attitude shifts or outlook on life or large commitments though, I'm going through quite a lot right now, so when things settle down I'll make those sort of decisions. And hopefully it won't be a complete shock to my system because I've started gradually!
In other news, I ate a massive (and I mean massive) plate of fried rice, complete with onions, eggs, carrots, peas, and beans. It was delicious. Also, I made myself a turkey sandwich for lunch, and I loaded quite a bit of salad on there. Greens and protein - what more could I guy want?
Which brings me to my next two questions (should I update the thread title?): First, greens. I know they're healthy and I need them and all, but considering I'm trying to bolster my activity level (I actually just got back from jogging up and down a flight of 100 stairs a couple of times. 109 stairs technically), do I also need to increase my green food intake? And if so, does mint chocolate chip ice cream count? (Kidding, kidding...)
Second question: In my fried rice I just threw in a whole can of vegetables rather than getting fresh ones. I'm sure fresh is better, but bottom line, does it matter for me? Is fresh just sort of icing on the cake, or is it actually giving me something I need for this whole "being healthy" thing that I can't get elsewhere?
Bonus question: Is not drinking milk a big problem? I love milk, but the city I'm in (Bastia currently) seems to... well, it seems to not have any. I'm sure I'm missing something, but I swear, I've been to a lot of grocery stores and looked everywhere, and its just not there.
*I'm currently in the fifth month of a seven month long research trip and don't actually even know where home is going to be at the end of it, nor where my next paycheck is going to come from.
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
whatever little bit you do now, is more than you were doing before. So it's a step in the right direction.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr Strangelove: I know they're healthy and I need them and all, but considering I'm trying to bolster my activity level (I actually just got back from jogging up and down a flight of 100 stairs a couple of times. 109 stairs technically), do I also need to increase my green food intake?
YES. In fact, you need them more, for the Vitamin K. And FYI, to count, they need to be DARK green. Iceberg lettuce does not count. In fact, most lettuces have little nutritional value. They don't have many calories either -- they're mostly water. But definitely not to be counted towards your dark green veggies tally. Think broccoli, spinach, kale.
Canned vegetables are high in sodium and pretty low in nutrients. If you're going for quick and easy, frozen vegetables (plain, not in sauce) are almost as good nutritionally as fresh. (Depending on the quality of the fresh, they can even be better.)
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
I love fresh broccoli and carrots. I am literally eating them right now.
*crunch crunch*
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Alright, frozen>canned. I can do that. And *shudder*... dark green. I'll find something...
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
Dip fresh broccoli in something.
-Ranch dip -strawberry yogurt -Drizzled with olive oil and pepper
Delicious.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Raw broccoli and ranch is yum. So is lightly steamed (or nuked) broccoli with a bit of shredded mozzarella.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I just looked up what counts as "leafy greens" and yep, I am not a fan. All of the other veggie groups have at least one thing I really enjoy, usually lots of things. But my taste buds are quite skewed against leafs. And I have to say, I really do hate broccoli. But... I'm going to get some from the store tomorrow and try to figure out some way to make it appetizing. The smell of it is just so... flatulent. Excuse my descriptiveness. I did have a good idea about how to work spinach in though. I like pasta a lot, and I like to mix my own sauce, so I'll just throw in lots of spinach and hope for the best.
When I'm back in the States I think I might try to find some sort of liquified alternative... I'm pretty sure they exist and drinking tends to be easier than eating for me.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
You're probably a supertaster. How do you feel about aspartame?
You can make blended drinks from frozen spinach with not much more than a blender and a strainer, I'd think.
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Raw broccoli and ranch is yum. So is lightly steamed (or nuked) broccoli with a bit of shredded mozzarella.
or Parmesan and garlic
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
What about broccoli shredded small with pasta in a cream sauce? Or broccoli salad with craisins and nuts is pretty tasty.
As far as leafy veggies go, I'm particular to spinach and Brussel sprouts (cut in half and sauteed until brown in butter and garlic).
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aros: What about broccoli shredded small with pasta in a cream sauce? Or broccoli salad with craisins and nuts is pretty tasty.
Yes and definitely yes.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Man, there's no way out of it. I'm getting some broccoli for dinner tonight.
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
broccoli and aspargus, seared in olive oil and rosemary, topped with shredded Parmesan.
Do it. You won't be sorry.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
When I was a kid I always liked broccoli dipped in Red Lobster tartar sauce.
Come to think of it, I still like that.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
I can take or leave broccoli tops, but I love broccoli stalks, cooked with a little crunch still left in them and a tiny bit of butter and garlic salt. MmmmMmm!
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I'll definitely try (some of) those suggestions! I think starting small (grating some broccoli into my sauces, stuff like that) sounds like my plan for now. I'll probably do that for dinner tomorrow.
What I won't do again is what I tried tonight. I had scrambled eggs and sausage which, you might notice, does not include greens. And I didn't make my usual sandwich with lettuce on it for lunch either. But I really wanted to try to get those requisite "leafy greens." So I grabbed my bag of lettuce, closed my eyes, grabbed a handful, and stuffed it in my mouth.
*shudder*... I'm going to have nightmares tonight. If I'm going to eat lettuce, it definitely needs to be combined with something.
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever heard of the old computer game "Commander Keen"? I wonder if part of my distaste for veggies comes from that. Though potatoes were evil in that and I still like potatoes plenty...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Again, lettuce (unless it is romaine or endive) DOES NOT count as "leafy greens". It counts as water.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Romaine tastes better than iceberg anyway. I've been off iceberg for years now, and in the last year started adding spinach to my romaine mix.
I'm sad it took me this long to make the change.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Romaine tastes better than iceberg anyway.
I like both, but I like butter lettuce more than either. Sadly, butter lettuce has little nutritional value, but it's yummy anyway.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Again, lettuce (unless it is romaine or endive) DOES NOT count as "leafy greens". It counts as water.
Yeah, this was one of the good kinds (I can't remember which). I think there's some spinach type looking leaves in the mix too. I'm more ok with the watery stuff. It's kinda like cucumbers... not great, but no real problem with it. It really does seem like in terms of my tastebuds, the more health value there is, the harder time I have with it. I'm sure there's not actually a correlation there, but I really am having to work at getting enough leafy greens. If I'm serious about being healthy, getting enough leafy greens really is probably (or definitely) the biggest hurdle.
The thought of how little I was getting before I was paying conscious attention to it though is enough to keep me motivated though. I've got some catching up to do (even if it doesn't actually work like that).
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
As I said, your reaction to dark leafies implies you are a supertaster.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: As I said, your reaction to dark leafies implies you are a supertaster.
Yeah, I'd never heard of that before, but it does fit almost perfectly. Even with beer, I like most beer, but I can't stand IPA's and really hoppy beers. The only part that doesn't fit is that I do tend to like sweet. I've been known to consume large quantities of donuts.
Edit: Heh. I just read an article that said supertasters are more likely to be drawn towards salty type stuff. The example they gave was salt-and-vinegar chips, one of my all time preferred foods .
[ June 23, 2012, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: Dr Strangelove ]
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Huh, now I wonder if I'm one of these supertasters as well.
I've always been a picky eater, and I absolutely hate most of the stuff on that list of foods they don't like. I hate most beers, I can only stand the sweeter ones. I don't like coffee, or grapefruit juice. There are a lot of things I don't like actually, though that's changed a bit in recent years.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote:Out of curiosity, has anyone ever heard of the old computer game "Commander Keen"? I wonder if part of my distaste for veggies comes from that. Though potatoes were evil in that and I still like potatoes plenty...
I used to play it all the time and I like vegetables, so I think your theory is, how shall I say it, bogus.
I agree with the putting vegetables in things. For example, if you make a curry, you can put spinach in it and you'll never taste it over the curry taste.
Try frozen peas in things as well, or asparagus fried in olive oil and lemon. Leek boiled with butter is also delicious. None of these things really taste vegetabley when cooked in this way.
I don't see why you expected to enjoy eating a handful of undressed greens. There's a reason salad dressing exists.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
quote:Originally posted by Teshi: I don't see why you expected to enjoy eating a handful of undressed greens. There's a reason salad dressing exists.
Haha. I in no wa expected to enjoy it. I just thought it would be momentary displeasure worth the benefit. But it was very intense displeasure that was not worth it. One of my first purchases at the grocery store yesterday was salad dressing.
Looking back on it, I think Commander Keen was my first real computer game (Solitaire and Mindsweeper obviously excluded). So it definitely does have a fond place in my heart and memory - Possibly formative in my later love of video games, but not likely in my distaste for veggies.
In other news, I'd say its going well. It is a struggle with the greens, but other than that I've been keeping up well with exercises and just in general eating better. I don't have any weights or really any way go get any in my current situation, but I did find a stack of huge books. So last night I loaded about 6 of them on top of each other and did make-shift bench presses. I know they won't do a huge amount of good because they aren't all that much weight, but again, I figure anything helps. And these are really big books.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
I would recommend clean milk jugs filled with water, as their handle is integrated and isn't as dangerous as a stack of books which can slip or tumble. A gallon is about 8 lbs, so if you can double up (some do not have hands big enough to hold two) you get 16 lbs of hand weights with the worst that can happen is a mini flood, so best to use outdoors or a room with tile.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Yeah, I actually thought of that, with the only problem being that I cannot seem to find suitable jugs anywhere (I feel like there's some innuendo possible there, but I don't feel like rewording). I've looked repeatedly and as near as I can tell, they do not exist on this island.
I also figure that if the books fall, yes, they will hurt, but because they are separated they should still be relatively safe. Hopefully.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr Strangelove: I also figure that if the books fall, yes, they will hurt, but because they are separated they should still be relatively safe. Hopefully.
>_<
Your grasp of physics is worse than your grasp of physiology and nutrition. Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
There is no milk on your island? Are you stranded on a sand atoll in the south Pacific?
Drinking water comes in the same jugs...heck, don't drink it, just leave it sealed.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: There is no milk on your island? Are you stranded on a sand atoll in the south Pacific?
Drinking water comes in the same jugs...heck, don't drink it, just leave it sealed.
Haha, not quite. I'm in Corsica. But it does seem incredibly difficult to find milk, and when I do find it its not in jugs so much as one liter bottles. Same for water, though there are two or three liter versions as well. But they are essentially giant water bottles with no handles and flimsy plastic. It just doesn't seem like they make jugs over here. I did pass the biggest grocery store I've seen yet on my way home today, so I'll check there tomorrow.
And rivka, I would definitely say that is true. . My reasoning though is that I'm not likely to drop all 6 or 7 on myself. It's much more likely (if it happens at all) that one will slip off the top, so instead of all the weight crushing me (like if I dropped a bar with weights on it without a spotter), it'll just be a fraction of it. I'll let you know how it works out though (that's my lifting imaginary weights, by the way).
I'm off to go make myself some cheesy pasta with spinach leaves and chicken in it!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
So it's actually your grasp of probability that's screwy?
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I am a supertaster, as proven by rivka's little paper test strips, but I like bitter flavors. Being able to taste something doesn't necessarily mean you won't like it. Except for aspartame, which is objectively nasty and not a question of preference.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
And I'm not a supertaster, but I loathe beer.
And black coffee, but that's just common sense. Coffee must be treated with milk and sugar to be safe for human consumption.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
It's strange how many reasons (excuses) people will find to avoid eating foods that they don't like. Children don't enjoy eating a lot of foods for myriad of reasons. As we grow, many of us expand our palates. Others can barely eat (exotic?) foods such as Chinese. My step father rarely strays from the steak / chicken / pork and potatoes model.
I feel sorry for people stuck in a tiny food box. Almost every food item that runs, flies, or grows can be prepared in a very tasty fashion. Virtually every region of the world has delicious variants of some of the same dishes.
Maybe I'm just too much of a foody? I know a lot of people who are content with Applebees, Sizzler, and Red Lobster as the pinnacles of fine dining. Maybe that's okay? <Shudder>
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
I eat almost anything, there is a very short list of things that I am either allergic to or just make me vomit in my own mouth at the mere smell of them.
I'm allergic to: black pepper dried oregano and basil and bell peppers.
I hate with a passion that burns: anything flavored: cherry, grape, or banana (although I love all of these in real fruit form) black licorice, Dr. Pepper, cumin and liver.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
See, for me there is relatively little I actively dislike. Bitter greens is really about it. And mushrooms. And I definitely agree that I can make greens taste good. I just ate my leftovers of last nights yummy cheesy spinach pasta and it was delicious. I'm still working on mushrooms. I think that's a texture thing though.
The problem is that just as there's not a lot I hate, there's also not a lot I actively like. It's not a dislike thing. I'll eat most things and enjoy them well enough in the moment. But I just don't get in to the whole "eating" thing. It's a chore for me. And yes, I've eaten at very fancy restaurants from a variety of cultures (I've supped on four continents and can't think of a culture whose food I haven't eaten), and my wife is a pretty amazing cook to boot.
It's not about the quality of food, it's the actual action of eating. If I had my choice, I would go without eating most of the time. And in fact, before I got married and had someone watching out for me, I would go for several days eating virtually nothing. Maybe a bowl of cereal, but I would often skip that, then not feel like making lunch, and then figure eh, why mess with a... thing, and skip dinner too. I know, I know, it was incredibly unhealthy of me on multiple levels, but there it is. I used to look quite vampiric when I wore black, all pale with gaunt cheekbones, dark hair and light eyes. If only I sparkled in the sun...
So yeah, I have a very very difficult time motivating myself to eat. Not because I dislike food. I just dislike eating, and there a few foods that I enjoy enough to inspire me otherwise. And I think this is where I was actually going with all of this... When I do decide to eat, I tend to just look for the quickest and easiest thing, which, of course, is very rarely healthy. So eating healthy for me has two levels - first, I need to motivate myself to eat. And then, once I've done that, I need to motivate myself to look further than bread and cheese, my usual staples, and actually get some nutrients in me.
(For the record, my wife does keep me in line quite a bit, making sure I eat and that I don't just eat donuts or something. So my initial statement about not being particularly unhealthy is true at this point in my life, despite my natural proclivity towards starvation)
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
Your post makes it sound more complicated than translating calculus written in Chinese into Sanskrit. If I thought about it like that, I wouldn't want to do it either LOL.
In this day and age in the first world, eating can and should be a pleasurable experience. To change your habits, make it simple and easy on yourself.
Just choose, and do.
All the rest is just conjugation or is superfluous.
You can do it, brother. Just allow yourself to.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
Start eating Indian and Thai food. If anything can inspire a love of eating. . . .
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I do like Indian food quite a bit. Like I said, for the most part food taste and whatnot isn't the issue. Actually getting myself to get up and eat is. But I'm doing pretty good I think and I figure once the habits really start to form (which should happen eventually, right?) it will be easier.
Anyways, in other news, I think I found milk. For some reason, its kept in the same place as cleaning supplies, and in similar bottles too. I think I mistook it for a bottle of bleach before. It's not refrigerated at all, though they say that once you open it it should be refrigerated and consumed within four days. But it definitely thew me off, not putting it with, you know, the dairy products.
I just had my first glass and I must say, it wasn't very good. I've never had powdered milk to my knowledge (I don't actually even have that great of a grasp of what it is), but I imagine it tastes a bit like this. It wasn't horrible though. Just different.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
If/when the apocalypse comes, I'm going to miss fresh, ice cold milk on demand...and indoor plumbing. And the interweb.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
That sounds like UHT milk. It's been sterilized (boiled) and sealed, which makes it shelf-stable until opened. But it also makes it taste rather odd.
Not too bad when really cold, though.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: That sounds like UHT milk. It's been sterilized (boiled) and sealed, which makes it shelf-stable until opened. But it also makes it taste rather odd.
Not too bad when really cold, though.
Ok, yeah, that's exactly what it is. I just looked closer on the packaging and it says its been boiled. Odd.
So new question (and updated title!): I bought some artichokes at the store today (and a head of broccoli... we'll see how that goes). Does anyone have any recommendations about what I do with them? I assume they have at least a moderate amount of health value, so I'm looking for a recipe that maximizes healthyness (maybe one that includes broccoli?) but is also tasty tasty.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
Rinse them, clip off the tips of the leaves (they have needles) with kitchen sheers and the tip of the stem, steam them with a perforated basket over water (do NOT boil them!), strip off the leaves one at a time, dip them in a yummy sauce and scrape out the meat with your teeth, when you start running out of leaves, be careful there is a grouping of hairs which is dangerous to eat as it can choke you, pull off the hairs and discard, and then you get the real treat, the heart (and core of the stem)...
This you can dip and eat, or chop up into...well, a lot of goodnessess. I make a mean spinach artichoke dip, but it hardly counts as healthy. They are great in salads, or pasta or as a puree.
Enjoy your thistle.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
You can cook them in the microwave, but it's a little hit or miss. Other than that, follow Stone_Wolf_'s recommendation. (By the way, mayonnaise is the yummy sauce referred to. It's really the only choice).
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Not plain mayo. Mayo with lemon juice and garlic mixed in makes a lovely pseudo-aioli. That's an absolute must for artichoke dipping.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Not plain mayo. Mayo with lemon juice and garlic mixed in makes a lovely pseudo-aioli. That's an absolute must for artichoke dipping.
This.
Although this delicious dipping sauce sort of tips Artichoke Night out of the healthy zone at my house. But with any luck you'll be too high on artichoke to notice.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
I personally prefer melted (not drawn) butter and Miracle Whip...eating artichokes is the -only- food I keep Miracle Whip in the house for. The salt of the butter and the sweet of the MW make yum yum, but it also nearly destroys the nutritional value of the choke.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Heh. I use light mayo and dip just a bit, but you're probably right anyway. Posted by ambyr (Member # 7616) on :
They taste better plain, anyway. Mayo is gross. </heretical viewpoint>
I usually throw a few cloves of crushed garlic and some bay leaves in the water when I'm steaming them, just to add to the flavor.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
I've always had them the Italian way. It's mostly the same as Stone_Wolf's, but before steaming you pack the petals full of buttered, seasoned breadcrumbs. Also, before stuffing, cut off the stem flush with the base of the artichoke. Peel off the tough outer layers of the stem and then cut into quarters lengthwise. Tuck each of the quarters into the stuffing at various points. This way, you get surprise previews of the heart as you work your way through the petals.
--Mel
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: If/when the apocalypse comes, I'm going to miss fresh, ice cold milk on demand...and indoor plumbing. And the interweb.
and toilet paper.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
Naw, if the apocalypse comes, paper money will become oh so much cotteny TP.
"We need to break into this bank vault."
"Why bother?"
"I have to take a wicked #2!"
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: That sounds like UHT milk. It's been sterilized (boiled) and sealed, which makes it shelf-stable until opened. But it also makes it taste rather odd.
Not too bad when really cold, though.
I have a guilty pleasure admission: I LOVE UHT milk. Absolutely love the taste of it. I buy Parmalat regularly and drink it by the liter LOL.
When I was deployed, I remember being secretly happy when supply div stopped receiving real milk and UHT was all there was. No one liked to drink it so... MORE FOR ME!
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: Naw, if the apocalypse comes, paper money will become oh so much cotteny TP.
"We need to break into this bank vault."
"Why bother?"
"I have to take a wicked #2!"
... a simple and elegant solution that I literally NEVER would have thought of on my own!
Since I am a sincere believer that the zombie apocalypse will soon be upon us, I offer you heartfelt thanks for this! It has long been a perplexing worry of mine!
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
Welcome!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by odouls268: I have a guilty pleasure admission: I LOVE UHT milk. Absolutely love the taste of it. I buy Parmalat regularly and drink it by the liter LOL.
Weirdo.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I just got back from the grocery store with a lemon and some butter and other good artichoke things. I'm quite excited! Does it pair well with chicken? I have one breast left and want to use it tonight.
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: ]Weirdo.
I'm strangely comfortable with that. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Artichokes make a good first course for almost any meal, chicken definitely included.
odouls, I rather expected you might be.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Artichokes are awesome with pretty much anything.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Why can't broccoli taste like artichokes?
Somewhat health related question - I realized half way through my fourth artichoke that I hadn't washed them before steaming them. I went ahead and continued, figuring that anything too harmful would have been taken care of by the steam. Was I wrong in that? And more generally, what are the circumstances in which washing food is an *absolute* must? Does cooking usually take care of whatever issues there might be, or should I have stopped what I was doing and washed my beautifully warm artichokes in cold water?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Washing them before cooking would have been a good idea, but mostly to remove dirt, gravel, and bugs.
Washing after cooking probably would not be all that effective.
Posted by Aros (Member # 4873) on :
Broccolini tastes more like artichokes / asparagus than broccoli. It's not actually broccoli -- it's hybridized with a chinese chard. Some (well) cooked cabbages also have a similar taste.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I like broccolini, and agree it tastes somewhat like asparagus (which I love). I don't think it really tastes like an artichoke, though.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Quick question about broccoli - is the trunk the healthier part or the top? I cut some up for my pasta last night and went with the top part since its greener and less distractingly crunchy.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
They're both pretty good. If you don't like the bottom crunchy (then what's WRONG with you, it's great that way!), just cut it in smaller pieces and/or cook it for longer.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: They're both pretty good. If you don't like the bottom crunchy (then what's WRONG with you, it's great that way!), just cut it in smaller pieces and/or cook it for longer.
I love every contribution you've made to this thread.
Man. I need to hit the store on my way home.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Seconded on that - Thanks for helping me out with this! I figure yes, I could just google a lot of the information (and some of it I have), but I figure this is sort of keeping me accountable, and actually talking with people is better than Google, imo. Good stuff.
Speaking of "stuff"... last night my landlords had me over for a full Corsican meal of awesomess. Amazing Corsican wine and sausage and general charcuterie, sardines stuff with cheese, vegetables stuffed with meat (I had a potato, two onions, and eggplant), cheese with fig jam, and then cheesecake for desert. With everything grown fresh, most of it from family gardens. It was *amazing*. And they gave me leftovers. Shazam.
In other news, I will try to eat the broccoli stalks... *grumble*. . Also, my working out has hit a bit of a snag. I'd actually gotten up to over 100 pushups in a day, but lately my right elbow has been incredibly sore and not been happy when I do pushups. I've taken a couple days off to try to rest it up, so we'll see how today goes.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Quick question:
I had a pretty good dinner last night. I only had canned green beans in terms of green stuff, but I needed to get rid of them so there it is. But afterwards I had some cookies and ice cream. And it was yummy.
Which got me wondering about things that are unhealthy and the extent to which they are actually damaging. I know things like grease are bad because of what they do to clog arteries and stuff like that, but what about something like ice cream and cookies, or sweet things in general? Is there something inherently bad in consumption of certain things? Or is it more a matter of quantity and context (as in, its fine to eat some ice cream, just not a whole carton, or only ice cream)? And again, weight is not an issue for me. I need more weight, so it's fine if the only negative part is that it makes me fat.
And just for the record, in the particular case of ice cream I will probably continue to eat it even if it is bad for me . But I'd like to know just how guilty I should feel, or if there are other obvious things that I really should make an effort to avoid.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Feeling guilt about eating habits is rarely useful, so skip that.
IMO, things like ice cream and cookies are fine in moderation, and if they do not displace healthier options.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Agreed that ice cream and other desserts are fine in moderation, but since what you seem to be asking is what's bad about them, I'll try to answer that. When you say grease clogs arteries and stuff, you're probably talking about cholesterol. Cholesterol is present in any food that contains animal fat, hence including ice cream. Likewise cookies made with butter. So while you may not be concerned about the calories, if you don't know your cholesterol levels you should probably get them checked, and if they are high for your age you should be aware of it and modify your diet appropriately. Unsurprisingly, eating more high-fiber food, like dark green vegetables, can help lower your cholesterol. Also oatmeal, and fresh fruit with the skin on.
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Laughs evil egg yoke evilly. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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(that's my lifting imaginary weights, by the way). ![[Smile]](smile.gif)