I have been in the beta for this game for a while, and it is a blast. I was a fan of the old Mech games, but this one is free to play, and seems like it is going in a good direction.
I got into a team a few years back though some family members of my wife, and we had fun, but the games got dated and the leagues fell apart. Now, we have been recruiting for MWO, and have almost 300 members.
Anyone else like those old Mechwarrior games? MWO is an open beta, and we have a teamspeak server set up, so if anyone wants to give it a whirl let me know. It's a lot more fun with comms and people who work as a team. Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I don't think I've played a mech game since I had a Playstation 1.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I'll download it and give it a whirl.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
It's fun. My in game name is.....wait for it.....
Kwea. Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: It's fun. My in game name is.....wait for it.....
Kwea.
What a plot twist! Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Boy, they have a lot to iron out.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
It IS a beta.
They are working on stability issues, and anti-hacking measures right now. They have a lot of mechs and variants, but only 4-6 maps, and they are also working on a planetary capture mode that is why my team is playing.
It's fun to play, most of the time, but it is a little buggy at times.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Bugs and crap are totally expected, I bat not even a single eyelash at them.
But unless they want to turn this game into a dwindling pool of sharks, they need to make the trial mechs not unfun easy food for tweaked mechs.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Bugs and crap are totally expected, I bat not even a single eyelash at them.
But unless they want to turn this game into a dwindling pool of sharks, they need to make the trial mechs not unfun easy food for tweaked mechs.
Yep.
I marched out confidently and found this great little high ground perch where I was almost totally covered but could still fire. I fired repeatedly at approaching mechs and they just laughed, and fired back at me, I don't think I managed to kill a single person, meanwhile they marched up after taking many hits from me, walked around the mountain, and killed me in about 10 seconds.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
buy a Jenner with Cbills, then save for a 300xl engine and put a single jump jet in it. It's the ticket out of trial sucktown. There are SO MANY balance issues with jenners that you can top games easy with one.
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
Anyone ever play Megamek? A lot less bells and whistles, but I think putting the full Battletech rules into Java game form is a great achievement.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
A lot that has less to do with single person play and more to do with team play. You probably went up against a pre-made team.
Like mine.
The trial mechs are a taste, and aren't too bad. The Cicada is pretty good, actually, and they rotate the trial mechs every few weeks so people can try other ones.
There are some balance issues they are working on, and right now missiles, especially streaks, and a little bit too strong. Thye are already working on it though.
As far as Jenners...they are not not really poorly balanced. They are a good light mech, and against PUG's they aren't bad, but the game has actually done a great job fixing balance issues. They have rewarded light mechs for running lights against heavier mechs, but they aren't so overpowered that they are unbeatable, at least not if you are a good pilot. I kill them all the time in my Hunchback....I run 91 kph, and have 9 lasers to leg them.
Jenner's are a good first mech, as is the Hunchback 4-P. It's a laserboat, so there is no rearm cost (something you don't pay for if you use a trial mech, BTW) and I have a version that uses a standard 260 engine, 9 med lasers, and 18 double heatsinks, with EndoSteel....it has a 45 point alpha, all on one panel, and if you divide the lasers into 3 firing groups it doesn't overheat as much.
It makes 120,000 to 140,000 PROFIT a match if you win.
If you guys want to drop together let me know, I will be online tonight after 8pm. I have a command meeting before then.
The House of Davion Teamspeak server is 50.22.145.232:7345, and my name there is Kwea, of course.
Do me a favor and post what your in-game tags are so I will recognize you in there. If I am not available, just drop into the "Waiting for matches" channel, and let them know you are online friends of mine.
[ December 03, 2012, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I'm BlackBlades (note it's plural) on there. I sent you a friend request.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
cool!
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I accidentally blocked you when I thought I was accepting your friend invite. I sent you one back. Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
name is GG Unit in case anyone wants to see my terribly rotted mech piloting
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
lol...it's a fun game
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
friend request sent
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
They started 8 man drops again, and unveiled ECM. It's a whole different ballgame with ECM, and I've never seen it work this way before. I think it is a little bit too strong, myself, but that's why this is Beta...
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
alas, my streakboat
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
So I'm still saving up for my first mech. I'm at 3,000,000ish right about now. What should I save up for, and what should I put in it? I definitely like LRMs and Gauss Rifles (I forget what they are called in game). I like to bombard stuff from a distance with rockets, then fire chunks of depleted uranium into them when they get close.
Lasers just generate too much heat without as much raw damage. I was in a game in a Jenner, and I snuck into the enemy base. There was an AFKer in plain view so I just started lasering his legs. It was a beefy mech to be sure, but geez I almost overheated twice, and his leg was still there.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
that's because the trial mechs are provided as stock designs from the tabletop. They have horrific heat management. Absolutely horrific.
Save up for enough to buy the jenner f, with the six energy slots. Remove all the medium lasers and replace them with six small lasers. Remove two jump jets. Fill up the new space with heatsinks.
also do not buy a commando ever
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Samp, do you ever play Eve? I only ask because I was just reading that same article, but was only on the mitanni's website to keep up on Eve stuff.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I don't play Eve. Fascinating to read stories about, but I find it way too boring and superficially involved to play.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Yeah, I can't say I disagree with that assessment. I've had some fun with it over the years, but can't see myself resubbing once my current one runs out. Which leads me to a search for a new time sink... maybe I should give Mechwarrior a look.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
my honest assessment right now is that it requires a constant group to play with to be fun. It's not balanced, it's full of pubstomping, heat is anti-fun in its current incarnation, and the trial mechs are so bad it's not even funny. It is a multi-day crotchkick to farm your way to a jenner f.
I have advised all of my friends to not even for a second consider trying to actually play and be competitive in the trial mechs. It's not going to happen and it will kill your enthusiasm fast. They're way too extremely hot, so their damage output is pathetic. The Awesome is a deathtrap with XL engines and wide side torsos, and it only has enough heat management to continually fire one er ppc.
Do this:
Pick the jenner. Enter a game. Run straight towards the enemy. Laser the enemy till you shut down. Force startup. Laser again. Get killed. Leave game. Select hunchback. Enter a game. Run straight towards the enemy. Laser the enemy till you shut down. Force startup. Laser again. Get killed. Enter game. Choose the fastest available mech (so, jenner if it's back, cataphract if it's not). Run towards enemy. Die. Constantly be suiciding in as many consecutive games as possible.
You will earn money many times faster than if you try to compete.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
If you manage to buy the heatsink upgrade where they work twice as good, but take three slots, all my heat issues went away. It costs 1.5 million, and of course you need to buy a mech.
It's still really frustrating to take one salvo of LRMs and immediately "Critical Damage" pops up. If you are unlucky enough to take a second salvo in the wrong place you're dead. Meanwhile you can watch your destroyer take around 10-15 blasts of everything your team is throwing at them before dying.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:If you manage to buy the heatsink upgrade where they work twice as good
1.4 times as good, actually.
Posted by Geraine (Member # 9913) on :
I'll reinstall it tonight. I played in Alpha and even dropped $60 for one of those preorder benefit things so I might as well play Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
I loved MW3...I'll see if I have time to check out this new one.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:If you manage to buy the heatsink upgrade where they work twice as good
1.4 times as good, actually.
Ah, right. Still seems to do the trick. Gosh but it's frustrating how easily a Jenner is blown out of the water by an Atlas*.
*And, well, everything else.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:If you manage to buy the heatsink upgrade where they work twice as good
1.4 times as good, actually.
Depends on where they are located. If you buy an engine large enough to fit them, the ones in the engine are 2x better. The ones outside the engine work 1.4 x as well.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
save for the Cicada, it has ECM.
3 med pulse lasers, double heatsinks, ECM, Tag, full armor. It's a 40 ton Med that runs 139 kph, and acts like a light, but with better armor and more damage.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
if you move that fast, you might want to stock up on small lasers instead.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I'm already deep into my Jenner JR7-K. I run with two medium pulse lasers, an SRM-6, two jump jets, with the lighter armor, and more efficient heat sink upgrades. I basically run around the parameter until I see to larger mechs engaged, then I swoop in, do a bunch of damage, chase if they run, then run away to re-engage.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
oh just to note
don't get ferro fibrous armor. it is way better but SO EXPENSIVE YOU WILL HATE YOURSELF
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
Man is their registration process annoying...fill out the form in full -then- we will tell you your name is taken and blank the form so you have to fill it out again before telling you that version of your name is taken etc. etc.
I'm "Stone Wolfe"
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: oh just to note
don't get ferro fibrous armor. it is way better but SO EXPENSIVE YOU WILL HATE YOURSELF
Too late! I hate myself!
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
FF isn't better, it's the exact thing. It just weighs less, and takes up slots. You can't fit any MORE of it even though it weighs less, so it only makes sense on Assault class mechs.
The Cicada with ECM only has 4 laser slots, so smalls are a bad idea. Pulse fire quick enough so I like them. I just killed 2 Atlases with them in one match, so I am getting the hang of it.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
ff:
quote: It provides 12% more protection per ton compared to standard armor, but occupies 14 critical slots in the mech.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
ok. Here is my sincere appraisal of this game:
The trial mech system in its current incarnation is absolutely inexcusable. It will tire you out and you will probably quit, if you are like most people. If you want to get into this game, or get a friend into this game, warn them ahead of time that the trial mechs are absolute garbage and your only goal is to suicide yourself as fast as possible so that you are getting money back from as many games at once as you can. Once you have 3-4 million cbills, buy a jenner and work towards giving it endo steel and double heat sinks, so that you can FINALLY have a heat-sustainable mech.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Feel free. They just started banning suicide farmers.
Samp....FF isn't better, you just get more tons to carry in the mech. Your protection is the same, but you get 12% less weights, so you can carry more on the mech. It's more bulky as the regular armor, so the protection is the same but it weighs less, freeing up the tons for more weapons or a bigger engine.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Kwea:
quote:Samp....FF isn't better, you just get more tons to carry in the mech.
FF armor absorbs more damage per ton. It also increases the damage absorption maximum for any given region. That's unambiguously better.
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
So I tried to play, and I don't think my puter can handle it. Took -forever- to load, and then was super jumpy and while I was trying to figure out the controls I was killed twice.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
So I'm saving up for Mech #2. I'm pretty pleased with how I have things setup with my Jenner. I was briefly considering going for a Catapult, but I wonder if I should just go all the way to an Awesome or Atlas, and just put in all the weapons I want, and fill the rest of the space with heat sinks.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Kwea:
quote:Samp....FF isn't better, you just get more tons to carry in the mech.
FF armor absorbs more damage per ton. It also increases the damage absorption maximum for any given region. That's unambiguously better.
Wrong. You can't fit more FF on, providing that extra protection. It just makes the points you have weigh less, leaving more weight for other weapons and gear.
If you could add MORE armor than before, you'd have a point, but that is not how it works in this game. I can't take the saved weight and spend it on more armor, once armor points are maxed out.
There is NO added protection for FF in the game now. Once you have max armor, it's MAXED. You can free up some tonnage, but that's it.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Ferro-Fibrous armor (FF) is a special type of armor used by vehicles and BattleMechs. Utilizing a weave of ferro-steel, ferro-titanium, and diamond weave fibers which boosts the tensile strength of the plating[1], it provides more protection per ton than standard armor (12% for Inner Sphere FF, 20% for Clan FF), but takes up more space on the 'Mech or vehicle (14 for inner sphere, 7 for clan). The maximum amount of protection is not changed ; merely the weight of armor required to achieve that level of protection. For a unit which already has maximum armor protection, it is therefore considered a weight-saving measure , at the cost of critical space. The weight savings for Endo Steel are greater than those saved by ferro-fibrous armor, but it is more costly and obviously more difficult to repair or add as an upgrade to a 'Mech.
So....while it may allow you to add armor, IF you have armor space/points left, it's not any more effective per armor point, which means your max armor/protection per armor point doesn't change. You just save 12% of it's tonnage.
[ December 13, 2012, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Where are you quoting that from.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Oh nm, sounds like that's true and that i was referencing a defunct game decision postulating a potential improvement to FF.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
LOL....from the MWO forum, on how this is implemented.
BTW, even in that game (which I played) there were max armor points which you couldn't exceed, separate of tonnage.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: So I'm saving up for Mech #2. I'm pretty pleased with how I have things setup with my Jenner. I was briefly considering going for a Catapult, but I wonder if I should just go all the way to an Awesome or Atlas, and just put in all the weapons I want, and fill the rest of the space with heat sinks.
Let me know before you buy. I can give you some loadouts that are super effective that my team has been using for months, if you want.
I run a Hunchback 4P, 9 medium lasers. It's hot, but I crit people out like crazy. It has a Standard 260 engine, and with speed tweak it runs 92 kph. It's a cash cow, makes good C-Bills, and has no rearm fee.
What so you like to run? A brawler, sniper, support?
SRM6's are great right now. Put Artimis on it and they all hit one panel, doing great burst damage. You can get a Catapult A1 and put 3 of them on it. Just make sure you have a standard engine, and CASE on wherever you store ammo.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
no way, get an xl engine and put all your ammo in the side torsos, spread out along all the component slots
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Chassis Name: Atlas Model Name: AS7-D-DC Engine: 350 Standard Engine Internal Type: Endo Steel Armor Type: Standard Armor Heat Sinks: 16 (Double Heat Sinks)
Tonnage: 100.00 Speed: 56.7 kph (Without Speed Tweak) Armor Total: 544 Alpha Strike Damage: 77.00 Heat Efficiency: 1.19 Effective Range of Loadout: 270m Max Range of loadoutL 500m
Head: 18/18 Right Torso: 64/84 Right Rear Torso: 20/84 Center Torso: 94/124 Center Rear Torso: 28/124 Left Torso: 64/84 Left Rear Torso: 20/84 Right Arm: 68/68 Left Arm: 68/68 Right Leg: 50/84 Left Leg: 50/84
Weapons Locations Right Arm: Medium Pulse Laser Left Arm: Medium Pulse Laser Right Torso: AC20 Left Torso: SRM6 x 3
Heat Sink Locations Left Arm: 1 Left Torso: 1 Engine: 4
Center Torso: ECM
Ammo Locations: Head: A/C 20 Ammo x 1 stack (7) Left Torso: A/C 20 x 2 stacks (200), SRM Ammo x 1 stack (100) Left Arm: A/C 20 x1 stack (7), SRM Ammo x 1 stack (100) Left Leg: SRM Ammo x 1 stack (100)
Total Munitions: A/C 20 = 28 SRM = 300
C-Bill Cost:
Atlas D-DC = 10,486,012 350 Standard Engine = 5,716,667 Medium Pulse Laser(x2) = 240,000 2 extra SRM 6's = 320,000 A/C20 extra ammo x3 = 30,009 Guardian ECM = 400,000 Double Heat Sinks x 6 = 72,000 Double HS Upgrade = 1,500,000 Endo Steel Upgrade = 1,000,000
Total Bill for this Mech = 19,692,688 C-Bills
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Another Atlas build
STD 300 Engine Standard Structure 18 Double Heatsinks ECM
Weapons - 2x ER Large Laser AC/20 w/ 2 tons ammo 3x SRM 6s w/ 3 tons ammo
Fire Groups 1 - AC/20 2 - 2x ER Large 3 - 3x Srm 6
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I guess I want a happy medium. I like the Jenner for the mobility, and I'm going to keep her around, but it's frustrating to ping people over and over, finally get blown up in two or three big salvos and then look at the end of game score board and look at how little damage you did overall.
I want something that can move, and in a one on one situation knock the other guy out, before backing off.
I'm going to have to make another 7-8 million if I decide to go for an Atlas.
I guess right now, I just want something medium to large build, that is going to blow somebody up before I get taken down. I'm partial to lasers and SRMs, but I wouldn't mind using an AC.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
go with the Hunch, or a Cat. Either work well.
I think the Hnchback 4P or 4SP would work well, and they are not that expensive.
[ December 13, 2012, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: no way, get an xl engine and put all your ammo in the side torsos, spread out along all the component slots
also no CASE. case is for mewling dezgra
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Went with the Hunchback 4SP. I got 6 medium lasers, and twin SRM 6s. Upgraded the heat sink, and added Artemis.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I played World of Tanks for a while, getting reasonably good at the game. I often thought: "This game is a lot of fun, but kind of wish that they didn't have to try and balance the tanks both with historical accuracy and game mechanics in mind."
So something like Mechwarrior Online seemed like it'd be right up my alley, with silly mechs instead of historical tanks.
But looking deeper, I'm not so sure this one is for me.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
You'll never know unless you take a whack at it.
Honestly I was *very* turned off after my first three matches. I left it for about 24-48 hours and then I decided I needed to at least play until I could get my own mech. I have so many fun memories from junior high, playing Mech Warrior 2.
I really like having it around, if nothing else for a quick 5-10 minute bout, where it's me, my mech, dishing it out on other mechs.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I've now downloaded and played a handful of games. Wow, the learning curve is STEEP. I have a hard time just getting my stupid mech to get where I want it to go.
In World of Tanks you've got the same setup (a turret and a body that move independantly) and there its really simple and intuitive. Here having the W&S keys control speed instead of just "W goes forward" makes it much much harder to maneuver. Hopefully I can get used to it. Right now I spend too much time keeping track of where my -----> arrow is on the map.
I've had one game where I think I contributed, but so far I'm mostly just a punching bag for the other team to beat the crap out of .
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
It's going to be rough going with the free mechs. The trick honestly is to march forward, find some cover, wait until the front line mechs start engaging each other, then find somebody isolated, and swoop in. Do as much damage as you can, and then just get back behind cover and find another target.
It is definitely tricky to get used to the legs and torso not facing the same way, but you'll adapt.
Learning to use X to instantly stop movement, and C to center the Torso will give you much better control.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
like i said before, the trial mechs are so unbelievably worthless and unfun that you should absolutely do everything in your power to skip that part of the game. Run out, get in fights, and die fast. Go to a different mech. Do it again. And again. Make sure you're pulling in income from several death charges at once and do this until you have about 4k, then get your jenner (alternately, it should be known that the raven is now light/spotter flavor of the month because ECM is ridiculously stupid overpowered, so you could get that instead).
Once you've got something like a jenner f with 6 light lasers (or 6 medium lasers if you are feeling .. courageous with your hot running) and double heat sinks in an XL engine and endo-steel internals you'll think back to your time in trial mechs and go "yeah how dumb was that, it was like they were actively trying to prevent me being interested in the game"
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
k=m
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
lol....I win in trial mechs all the time. They run hot, but you aren't suppose to be firing all the time anyway, not if you are playing smart.
I prefer making my own, but my mechs usually have a heat of about 1.10 anyways.
Blackblade, that's a good combo, every bit as viable as my 9 medium laser 4P. It doesn't make as much cash though, because you have to rearm the SRM's after each match, and it's expensive.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I see why you would suggest that tactic, Sam, but I don't have it in me to play like that. It's a valid tactic in World of Tanks at first too, but I'd never dream of implementing it. Each match I can at least learn the controls and mechanics better if I actually try and play it.
Kwea... I'm sure you're awesome at the game, but 'playing smart' as a total noob is a little tough.
Added: Aesthetics of my 'ride' are pretty important to me in these games. The Dragon and Catapult are my favorites in the looks department. Almost twice as expensive as a Jenner, though...
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
you do learn more from it. you're not as worried about lurking so you spend your time in trial mechs learning the ins and outs of crisis maneuvering and holding a laser on a central body mass for the short time your mech is viable.
In addition if you run across the trial awesome, leg or side torso it. it runs so hot it can't even continually fire one of its three ERPPCs and the xl engine means that a side torso blowout cans the mech entirely. erppc's are terrible.
xav: not too much harder to save up for a catapult, you can start up with one for only 6mil as opposed to a 4mil for the jenner. However, I would recommend starting with a small mech and using it as a platform for learning how to fire while moving at high speeds.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I'd go with the Cat between the 2. The Dragon is more....squishy.
I wouldn't be afraid of dying, but I wouldn't suicide either. Find a BIG mech on your side, stay with it, and shoot THE SAME TARGET IT DOES! It's called focus fire, and it rocks. Don't EVER stand still to shoot unless you are far away and there are only a few left. And take your time, don't fire all the time non-stop.
Don't crest a ridge first, and don't stop on the top of a hill unless you KNOW no one on their team can see you.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
ERPPC's are the hottest thing in the game heat wise, but are about to get a buff. If you ARE going to use PPC's, use one or two, even if the mech can fit 3. And take the ERPPc's. Regular PPC's have a minimum range of 90 meters,so they do 0 damage inside of that. ER's have no minimum range.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
yeah, but the erppc's saddle you up with 50% more heat for an already superhot weapon that has serious issues with netcode leading. WoL and mittani regard it as the most useless weapon this side of flamers.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote: xav: not too much harder to save up for a catapult, you can start up with one for only 6mil as opposed to a 4mil for the jenner. However, I would recommend starting with a small mech and using it as a platform for learning how to fire while moving at high speeds.
Thanks. So far, however, I'm doing much better with my Hunchback than with my Jenner. The firing at high speeds thing is currently above my skill level. With the HBK I seem to get myself into less trouble and get off far more shots.
Still, even if its not my 'main tank', it is always nice to have a fast mover in your stable for when you are looking for a change of pace. So probably will get one of those first.
Looks wise, I seem to like the ones that are least anthropomorphic. I wouldn't be caught dead in a Commando, and the Atlas even looks bleh to me. I like the HBK most out of the trial mechs gameplay wise, but those silly little arms turn me off big time.
There really are quite a few things in common with World of Tanks. The main difference so far for me are the 'feel' of the weapons. The huge BOOM of a tank shell is a lot more satisfying than the lasers that I can't tell are doing anything much. Similarly the long range missiles I fire and then don't know if they even did anything.
erhaps some radio guy saying "You got them good!" or "Direct hit!" would improve my morale on the battlefield.
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
Xavier: If you watch your target's Hull Integrity % in the targeting reticule, you can tell if your missiles are impacting. If you use an SRM, you can watch your missiles slam into them.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Often times my target is engaged with one or more other mechs, so its hard to tell if my missiles actually were the damage dealer.
In World of Tanks, you hear "Got him!" or something along with the visual cues. That'd be a nice addition here, I feel.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Xavier:
quote: xav: not too much harder to save up for a catapult, you can start up with one for only 6mil as opposed to a 4mil for the jenner. However, I would recommend starting with a small mech and using it as a platform for learning how to fire while moving at high speeds.
Thanks. So far, however, I'm doing much better with my Hunchback than with my Jenner. The firing at high speeds thing is currently above my skill level. With the HBK I seem to get myself into less trouble and get off far more shots.
Still, even if its not my 'main tank', it is always nice to have a fast mover in your stable for when you are looking for a change of pace. So probably will get one of those first.
Looks wise, I seem to like the ones that are least anthropomorphic. I wouldn't be caught dead in a Commando, and the Atlas even looks bleh to me. I like the HBK most out of the trial mechs gameplay wise, but those silly little arms turn me off big time.
There really are quite a few things in common with World of Tanks. The main difference so far for me are the 'feel' of the weapons. The huge BOOM of a tank shell is a lot more satisfying than the lasers that I can't tell are doing anything much. Similarly the long range missiles I fire and then don't know if they even did anything.
erhaps some radio guy saying "You got them good!" or "Direct hit!" would improve my morale on the battlefield.
I want a more direct target hit indication. Like, hit, center torso. hit, right torso. etc. Indicating precisely how much you have hammered off armor or internals.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: yeah, but the erppc's saddle you up with 50% more heat for an already superhot weapon that has serious issues with netcode leading. WoL and mittani regard it as the most useless weapon this side of flamers.
Which is why the heat is going to be reduced, and EMC/disruption is going to be upgraded, and the damaged tweaked. in the next couple of updates.
I currently have 0 mechs with it, but I have friends who play well with it even as it is now. I don't recommend them, but they aren't useless. And I'd rather take the ER's than the standard PPC's, because at least they can brawl a little bit.
My HBK-4P runs 92 KPH, and I currently use it as a scout support mech and secondary scout if one of them goes down.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
A bit frustrated tonight. Played with a great group of guys, all decent shots, and I called the matches.
Lost 6 in a row, because of bugs. It sucks, having at least one guy drop or not be able to even target or tell friend from foe every single match. I personally had various heat bugs over and over again, with phantom damage making me explode at 38% heat.
Screw the Stalker, screw new maps, screw PPC's in general. FIX THE #$%& HEAT BUGS, CRASHES AND KNOWN ISSUES.
It doesn't matter how cool things look if gameplay still sucks. Stability should have been addressed before it went to open beta.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I've noticed that if I play several games in a row (maybe 8-10) my frame-rate starts to drop. If I play another match its downright unplayable. Restarting seems to fix this, so I'm betting its a memory leak.
I haven't had any crashes, but have noticed that in my mechlab if I make changes sometimes my interface goes wonky and need to restart to fix it.
----------------------------------------------
So, any advice for a loadout on a K2? One that uses the energy weapons in the arms. I don't like the idea of the coolest looking part of the mech to be vestigial, like some builds I've seen in the forums. Sounds like maybe dual ERPPC's would be a good fit there, once they are buffed? (Any idea when that's coming?)
Edit: If I did go with dual ERPPC's, would it make sense to then put ballistics weapons (whatever I have the tonnage for) in the torso? I figure if I'm using my backup weapon that means my heat is high, and ballistics weapons presumably use less heat?
[ December 18, 2012, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Xavier ]
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
ERPPCs do take a lot of fire discipline. They've got incredible range, and on some maps, if you use heat vision and zoom, you can get some solid pot shots in, softening them up before they can get close enough with lasers.
Once you are in close, you will have to learn to lead your target perfectly so the shots hit.
The K2 is a Catapult yes? It has two ballistic slots available. I'd go with dual AC/10's and start firing chunks of uranium into fools. Machine guns are audibly satisfying, but they just don't put out much damage as yet.
With four energy slots, if you must go PPC, I'd go dual ERPPC's and dual medium lasers, as I think two large lasers would be too heavy. If you can get some serious tonnage back through upgrades or drop the ERPPCs then I'd consider large lasers.
They are the ruin of commandos, jenners, ravens, and cicadas.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Yep, catapult.
Yeah my main problem is the tonnage. I don't think I can run with dual PPCs and both AC/10s and medium lasers unless I gain a lot back with my structure upgrade or something. I probably need to choose one or the other, for now.
I could also drop some armor, I suppose, but am loathe to do that.
Maybe I should plan on saving up for an XL engine to save some weight? Or go with a lighter standard engine.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
i'm back to playing occasionally, in the wake of how derpy the games have become with ECM supremacy i'm just playing a jacked-up speedy gaussapult with an XL engine (which works on the catapult, because the side torsos have such impossible hitboxes from the front) and getting like 3-4 kills a match
legs are such a rare target at speed that i've had 15 armor points on each and never once been legged
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Honestly? You can make a K2 that has double Gauss and 2 MedLasers. It's the ONLY build people still carry Gauss on, because they made the Gauss so fragile now. Make sure you have a standard engine, not an XL, and carry at least 6 tons of amm, which is 30 shots.
If you fire both they hit the same panel on the mech most of the time, and that's 30 pints every 4-5 seconds, with pinpoint accuracy. It's one of my favorite builds.
You don't need any extra heat sinks either. 2 med lasers don't generally generate enough heat to worry you at all, even when firing constantly.
I've seen a double AC20 version. It can kill almost any mech with 2 salvos, and quite a few mechs in one if it is placed right, but the AC20 DOES generate heat, and is very heavy. Still a fun build though, almost a cheat. Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Do you put the medium lasers in the arms then? I'd feel a little weird having these huge looking energy weapons up there that are actually so weak, but at least then they wouldn't be completely for show. Was hoping for a good build that put PPC, ERPPC, or LargeLasers up there.
I'm still a little skeptical about fitting all that weight in the mech for the Gauss x2, but will give it a look in the Mechlab when I get home. I'd imagine I'd need to either downgrade the engine or strip off a lot of the armor?
(IIRC, Gauss Rifles are crazy expensive, so even if I save up for them I'll need a build to run in the meantime)
Edit: Currently I'm using the stock PPC in the arms and two medium lasers in the torso. Since I hear machine guns are pretty useless, I took them off and just put heat sinks in. Maybe I should take the medium lasers off and put in a ballistics weapon in there instead.
Also: Does it matter where I put heat sinks? Like if I am using PPC, do more heat sinks in the arms help more than extra ones in the torso?
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Not wanting to make an additional edit, will ask in a new post:
Sometimes when I join a game, the enemy team is nearly full immediately. Then my side fills up slowly before the match begins. Does this indicate that the other team is mostly a "premade"?
I seem to lose a lot, more so than my own mediocre performance would perhaps justify statistically. Am I going up against organized groups somewhat often?
Also, is there anywhere to see my stats? My craptastic win/loss ratio is my own gut feel. In addition, if I leave a match after I die, can I still see the results of that match somewhere? Currently I leave and then have no clue if my team won or lost.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
For a gauss cat you need nothing in the arms, you can just strip all the armor off of them.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Originally posted by Parkour: For a gauss cat you need nothing in the arms, you can just strip all the armor off of them.
Yeah I thought I was pretty clear that I don't want to strip the arms to nothing. Having large energy weapons there was part of the reason I bought the mech in the first place.
Thanks though. Perhaps I made a mistake in my purchase.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Well somehow when I logged in I had 8M credits. Guessing the patch gave out a bunch. I got the endo and heat sink upgrades, and put two ERPPC's on the arms with a bunch of double heat sinks everywhere I could fit them. That left me with enough tonnage for an AMS and some ammo for it, so put those in too.
Only played two games with it, but so far I'm liking the setup. Doing a fair amount of damage and sticking around longer. I think sitting back and firing from long distance is a better playstyle for me, especially coming from having fought something like 2500 world of tank battles.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Yeah. It's pretty satisfying to soften things up from a distance, then when they are engaged with somebody else, walk in and start blowing off components.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Please take my word for it when I say this:
These are all junk weapons. DO NOT TAKE THEM. Insofar as I have observed they are completely absent from WoL non-troll builds and there are good reasons.
ER Large Laser ER PPC Machine gun Flamer Small pulse lasers
AFAIK orgs are planning to test-run PPC's once we get the promised PPC hud disruption effect enhancement, but for now they are decidedly an inferior weapon. ERPPC's are really bad because of the 50% heat tax on the same damage
Ultra AC/5 is amazing right now because there is a script (i'm testing it atm) that allows you to hold down the weapon for continual fire without jamming.
Stalker is new brute par grande and is equippable with missile alphas that do 90+ damage. However, its hitboxes are bad right now AND any mech without ECM is strictly inferior, so expect the Atlas DDC to remain king of the battlefield.
TAG range has been enhanced to 750 which will allow spotters to provide for more organized indirect fire options.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Yeah while I am having some fun with the ERPPC's on my K2, but its definitely starting to feel like an inferior choice. Starting to wish I'd gone with one of the Catapult's with LRMs instead. Oh well, with the 8M credit gift, maybe I'll get one of those sooner than I would have otherwise.
I also have a Jenner-F with six small lasers, and after many games of being blown to smithereens without contributing very much, I seem to be getting the hang of it. My last three matches I've been in the upper third of damage done, which is pretty rare for me in the K2.
The game that I finally felt like I was "getting somewhere" is when I followed a Raven on a conquest map. The two of us beat up and killed an Atlas and a Cataphract together at one of the nodes. I mostly just stayed behind the Atlas and tried to target his modules from the rear. He could do nothing to stop me, though maybe a better pilot could have. Having it finally blow up and me get kill credit was the most fun I've had so far.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
your K2 is still about one of the best mechs on the field. put two gauss rifles in the side torsos, strip the arms, and have fun coring big mechs as part of a firing line.
jenner f with small lasers (later smalls and mpulse lasers when you have double heat sinks) is also a great build with a XL 295 engine
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Yeah I know all about the Guassboat, thanks. Was trying to find a different viable path that still used the arms.
-----------------------------------------------
Wow that XL295 engine is as expensive as many mechs. Without it (or different XL) though I'm not sure I can switch to an equivalent number of pulse lasers. Especially now that you need more than one jump jet to get the max jump distance.
I like the way the pulse lasers look/sound when spectating. Would love to give them a spin.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
just remember: only medium pulse lasers. splas is pretty crap, unfortunately
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Ah, sure enough you did list that as a no-no. Would I shoot for 4xSmall and 2xMedPulse or some other config?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
People who have done all the math say that 2xMedPulse and 4XSmall wins in both the 'math' and 'really fun' categories, because the mpulse cycles about as fast and gives you good range
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
These XL engines take 12 slots. For Jenners, there are, what like 9 slots max available in the torso? So how could you ever equip one?
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
In the mechleb it seems to still take only six. Not sure how that works, whether it uses dynamic structure slots or what.
Doing the math, it looks like with:
4 Small Lasers 2 Med Pulse Lasers 5 Jump Jets 1 XL 295 Engine 2 Double Heat Sinks (extra)
I am maxed in tonnage. How many DHS do you guys think I'd need with that setup? I could dump some jump jets, but now that they are fixed that'd mean I can't go very far with them. Could also drop some armor to add one or maybe two more.
Or I could get a slightly less powerful and lighter engine...
Posted by JanitorBlade (Member # 12343) on :
STD engines do indeed take 6, but I'm looking at the XLs now and they all say 12.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Yeah I know, but the mechlab lets you put them in anyway.
Looking deeper, how it works is that your left and right torso both get a three slot block called "engines" in addition to the six that the engine takes up in the center torso.
Edit: This appears to be the primary downside, that losing one of the side torso's then "cores" your mech. But on something like a Jenner that doesn't seem like a big deal.
[ December 20, 2012, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Xavier ]
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
The viability of an XL engine depends entirely on the hitboxes/speed of your mech. Any jenner wants an XL engine, no atlas does. My gaussapult goes 80mph and still has room for 2 gauss, 2 med lasers, and 60 shells. But the cost for this is that if I'm hit from the side i'm easily killed.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Plenty of balance changes also showed up this week, and we'll just touch on the key points. Firstly, jump jets now have a scaled effect based on how many you have on the chassis. The number each mech comes with stock is now the baseline for getting the jet performance everyone was used to, so you can no longer get away with just slapping a single jet onto your mech and rocketing skyward with wild abandon. In most cases you're going to need four or five to get where you want to be - and there's a cap on the number you can cram onto your robot too, so no filling that Jenner with twenty of them and launching yourself to the moon.
Next, autocannon and PPCs have had their projectile speed boosted - most notably the ppc projectile now travels as fast as an AC/2 round, which along with the introduction of the stalker might mean a surge in the number of ppc users. Remember though, friends don't let friends use ER PPCs. TAG and NARC also get changes , with TAG range increased to 750m and NARC duration increased to 20 seconds. Given TAG was already the better option here (lighter, doesn't need ammo, penetrates ECM bubbles) the NARC buff is frankly a bit lacklustre. There's still not really a good reason to take one over a TAG or (if you've only got a missile hard point to play with) a Streak-2.
there's also a note that the effect of ECMs set to counter mode has been changed to just counter the nearest enemy mech running ECM. This sounds very much like what PGI said it was going to do in the first place, so it'll be interesting to see what this actually does in a brawl full of people flipping between disrupt and counter now.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Meh. ERPPC is still the better option, IMO. It's also the opinion of every team we've played or skirmished with in 2 months.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Bought a Raven 3L, the ECM one of course, and I enjoy it a lot. I have an XL 295 with one DHS in the engine, Endo and FF armor, and 3 Med lasers. I also carry 2 SSRM2's, and 2 tons of ammo. It runs 136.2 kph, without speed tweak, and is a lot of fun to play. Raven's are OP right now, but they always have been in this game.
I figured I should play one in order to learn to kill one. Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Just had a huge game in my K2, 3 kills 2 assists and lots of damage. I switched to a 4x Medium laser and 2x AC5 setup with it, which seemed to be a lot more effective than what I was running before.
I think I'm finally at the point where I am pulling my weight most games, and even usually doing better than most.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Let me know if you want to drop tonight. I'm Kwea in game, and I can give you the teamspeak address if you want. It's a lot of fun...
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
teamspeak://50.22.145.232:7345
House of Davion Teamspeak info above. Anyone can come in, but please remember it's PG-13 at best. People play with their families in hearing distance, and a lot of us have kids.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I purchased a Stalker, and am running LRM * 2, SRM * 2, Medium Laser * 4, and Large Pulse Lasers *2.
It runs WAY too hot, and I haven't earned enough Cbills to buy the heat sink upgrade. Just firing the Large pulse lasers is something like 40+% heat.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Sorry Kwea, I logged off shortly after I made that post. I'd love to play with peeps I know. Though I don't currently have a headset, so sometimes I have problems with my mic picking up my speaker output. Will play around with 'push to talk' and see if that works better for me.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:I purchased a Stalker, and am running LRM * 2, SRM * 2, Medium Laser * 4, and Large Pulse Lasers *2.
Wow, I can't even fathom that kind of firepower. Guess someone spent their 8M credit bonus.
I myself have about 5M, and can't decide whether to pimp my Jenner (the XL 280 engines probably and 2xMedPulseLasers) or just save up for a new mech entirely.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
PTT is mandatory on all our drops, specifically because of that.
I'd eat that Stalker for lunch.
Xavier, just look for me on the server. If I am not training nOObs, I'd love to play a bit, and if you want I could get you into the group and introduce you to some guys. We are actually an international group, so no matter when you play we have rooms going. Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Does House of Davion really think that erppc's are good weapons?
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
this game sucks.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
it does
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
Oh, I haven't actually played it, but if you say so.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I'm not sure I'd agree. Its tough as a new player, but I think they have something pretty cool here. They still need to make lots more changes, mostly in weapons balance. But the core is decent I feel.
---------------------------------------------
Anyway, I'm still experimenting with K2 setups, and right now I've got 2xLargeLasers and 1xGaussRifle. I still get the "mech with giant lasers on its shoulders" feel while also getting a taste of how OP the gauss rifle is.
My second game I got over 500 damage with it. I think when I get used to aiming the gauss rifle it could be a pretty great setup. The two weapon types seem to compliment eachother reasonably well.
I'm sure getting 2xGauss is even better, but I'd probably hate myself for using it.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
Put ammo in the legs. Gauss ammo can go in the center torso. 2 larges and a Gauss works ok.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by umberhulk: Oh, I haven't actually played it, but if you say so.
It's a beta. It's rough and buggy, the interface leaves a lot to be desired, 4 maps and two game modes, and a frustrating pug grind with no meta instituted. It sucks. But the core gameplay is fun and this makes it good practice for when the game actually comes out.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: I'd eat that Stalker for lunch.
Probably. I dropped the LRMs for two more SRMs, got rid of the 4 medium lasers, and got a large laser.
So now it's Large pulse laser * 2, Large Laser * 1, SRM * 4, Heat sinks * gazillion.
It's pretty hard to deal with Ravens dancing in circles around me, but I tend to back myself into a wall so I only need to look left and right, get lined up, then BOOOOOM.
I still kinda wish I had gone for a Stalker with more ballistic slots, and picked up some AC/*.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
gave myself a stalker, standard 300, and gave it 4 medium lasers, 2 large lasers, max armor, 4 SRM 4's, and a trajillion DHS's — not quite a brawler, but it absolutely ends anything that comes within 300m.
when they reduce the heat on PPC's and give them the EMP effect, i'm probably going to test it out with 4 ppc's.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Go with a SRM boat. They are devastating.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
the trial mechs are still clownshoes
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Oh man that was depressing.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Reading the forums convinced me to spend my 4M or so on a Hunchback 4SP, even with me not liking the look.
My first few games were miserable, and now I am kind of wishing I'd spent that all on upgrading my Jenner. Right now that's the mech I have the most fun with.
-------------------------------------------------
Oh BTW, I am FelMair in game. I sent invites out to the three players in this thread.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
So that's one of each class besides the assault class. Out of the assault mechs, the Stalker is the one I like the look of best. I'm thinking the 5M has a nice balance to it, and I don't have anything with LRMs on it yet.
------------------------------------------------
I'm still not thrilled with my 4SP yet. The medium lasers seem to overheat my mech pretty fast. I upgraded to DHS, just to realize that I didn't have much space and it barely helped, if at all. Was painful to realize I kind of wasted 1.5M credits. Now that I've spent the entire 8M credit gift, they aren't easy to come by.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
How could upgrading to dhs not help? It doubles the effect of all heatsinks in the engine.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Well I could fit more single heat sinks in the loadout. When I upgraded to DHS they take up a ton of room and I can't fit nearly as many in. Tonnage isn't an issue for the mech right now, but space is.
I think it helped slightly, like from 1.08 to 1.1 heat efficiency. Hardly worth 1.5M credits.
But if I am doing something wrong, I am all ears .
Note: some of the space issues are from the slots used up by the endo-steel structure. Maybe switching to standard structure I can fit in more DHSs. That would mean I wasted that upgrade cost completely.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
what's your weapon loadout?
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Currently I've got:
Endo Steel Structure Double Heat Sinks
Left Arm: 2xMediumLaser, DHS Right Arm: 2xMediumLaser, DHS Head: Medium Laser Right Torso: SRM6, 3xDHS Left Torso: SRM6, 2xDHS, Ammo Center Torso: STD200 Engine, 2xAmmo Legs: Structure slots
45.6/50 tons used.
All my slots are full currently. This ends up with a heat efficiency of 1.10 with 15 DHS.
That's probably enough and I should just "learn to play". Which is fine. Unless there's a more optimal loadout I could roll with.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
You want a better engine. what's your current top speed?
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Looks like 64.8, same as stock. Engines are pricey, still haven't saved up enough to upgrade my Jenner's yet .
[Which probably will get higher priority, since I like it better than the Hunchback.]
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
But I see what you mean, running a "medium" that's not any faster than my "heavy" is probably whats so unsatisfying about taking it out of the garage.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
Yeah mediums need more mobility. Their job is to wingman the brutes, swat lights away, and pick on the rear armor of heavies that engage. They should be going 80 minimum.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Parkour: How could upgrading to dhs not help? It doubles the effect of all heatsinks in the engine.
Nope. It doubles the ones in the engine, and gives the rest a 1.4 HE.
They take 3 slots, vs 1 slot for regular. They only weigh a ton though. It's a balancing act, and worth it on most mechs, but it depends on your build and loadout.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
If you get a better engine, one of the DHS will fit in the engine, freeing up 3 more slots. It will work better there too. I use the Standard 260 in ALL my Hunchie builds. It runs 82.5 kph, without speed tweak.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:I use the Standard 260 in ALL my Hunchie builds. It runs 82.5 kph, without speed tweak.
Cool, will shoot for that. Looks like that's eight more tons. Yikes. Not sure how to shed that weight. Such a balancing act.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea:
quote:Originally posted by Parkour: How could upgrading to dhs not help? It doubles the effect of all heatsinks in the engine.
Nope. It doubles the ones in the engine, and gives the rest a 1.4 HE.
Read his post.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:...one of the DHS will fit in the engine...
Can you elaborate on this a little? Can't seem to figure out how it works in the mechlab. The 260 and 200 engines both look like they take up 6 slots.
Is there a way to put heat sinks in the engine that I'm just not seeing? When you guys have talked about them being in the engine, I figured that just meant that by default an engine has some built into it that I can't see. But I'm not really sure how that all works.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Ah, googling shows that the number on the engine tells how many are inside, in that 200/25 = 8 and 250/25 = 10.
Yikes, that's something that should have been clear in the mechlab itself.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
This is going to be sort of confusing but that's because the heat/heatsink system in MWO sucks at present and needs an overhaul. But the short story is: DHS always. Always. Always. Ignore anyone who tells you otherwise. They probably pilot commandos and smell.
The minimum number of heatsinks required by a mech is 10; engines have a number of heatsinks inside them based on their rating. If you have a really small engine, your engine doesn't have enough heatsinks in it to meet the threshold and you have to put in additional ones outside the engine. (these engines are terrible, never use them). A 250 engine and above fills the minimum 10 heatsinks inside it. At 275 and above they start having room for additional heatsinks you can OPT to put inside the engine above 10. Here's a chart:
100-120 engine, 4 heat sinks in engine, 6 must be placed in criticals 125-145 engine, 5 heat sinks in engine, 5 must be placed in criticals 150-170 engine, 6 heat sinks in engine, 4 must be placed in criticals 175-195 engine, 7 heat sinks in engine, 3 must be placed in criticals
200-220 engine, 8 heat sinks in engine, 2 must be placed in criticals 225-245 engine, 9 heat sinks in engine, 1 must be placed in criticals 250-270 engine, 10 heat sinks in engine, 0 must be placed in criticals 275-295 engine, 10 heat sinks in engine, 0 must be placed in criticals, space for 1 extra heat sink within engine
300-320 engine, 10 heat sinks in engine, 0 must be placed in criticals, space for 2 extra heat sinks within engine 325-345 engine, 10 heat sinks in engine, 0 must be placed in criticals, space for 3 extra heat sinks within engine
Here's an image of an engine with two additional optional heatsinks in its spare space:
you just basically dump them in there. They add a ton each, but use no additional critical space. The DHS outside the engine take up three crit spaces and have 1.4 times the effect of a SHS.
Note that with DHS, any internal engine heatsink gets DOUBLE the heat reduction value and does not take up any additional space. Ergo, when you have a 270 engine with 10 engine heatsinks and upgrade to DHS, the 10 engine internal heatsinks have their cooling power instantly doubled. So it's like you are gaining 10 heat sinks with no downside AT ALL. You went from 10 effective heatsinks to 20.
It is for that reason that nearly all serious business builds are DHS and at present no ace runup makes use of SHS; some people have come up with some builds that they think barely utilize SHS better, but it's iffy and these builds are generally outclassed by other designs anyway so they are pretty much obsolete right now. The free doubling of engine heatsinks at no critical space or weight cost is simply insurmountable. The only notable downside is that you can no longer put heatsinks in the legs, and heatsinks in legs get additional cooling benefit if you are standing in water. But that doesn't matter too much, because at present the pro builds put ammo in the legs.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Thanks, that goes a bit further than the post I found with google did.
I think my main problem right now is that I lose interest after two or three matches. Hard to grind the credits for these things without marathon sessions. I just don't seem to have the will for it, for whatever reason.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Not all the pro builds put ammo in the legs. The ONLY reason people do now is the Lag shield keeps you from legging as much. Ammo on a leg is sometimes a VERY bad idea. If they get a crit, it legs you or kills you.
They have already over adjusted the HE of laser weapons, but the next patch will dial it down a bit and make all energy weapons more viable options. Should make for some interesting builds. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Xavier, drop with my team for a bit. It makes it FUN, and the credits come fairly easy. I don;t even think much about it any more.
I am working all weekend, but drop in Monday night if you aren't busy. I know I will be on then.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
Ammo always goes in the legs, unless you can use the arms as ammo dumps, or if it is gauss ammo which can go in the ct (it doesn't explode) ... Right now ammo in legs makes it much less of a viability as it would be anywhere else.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:I am working all weekend, but drop in Monday night if you aren't busy. I know I will be on then.
Sounds cool. It looks like that's New Years Eve. Not sure if I'm doing anything that night or not. Will probably be on at least a bit .
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
LOL....I won't, but I have Tues off. Maybe a little earlier on Tues?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Parkour: Ammo always goes in the legs, unless you can use the arms as ammo dumps, or if it is gauss ammo which can go in the ct (it doesn't explode) ... Right now ammo in legs makes it much less of a viability as it would be anywhere else.
Nope. Once the lag shield gets fixed, legging won't just slow you, it will blow you up if you get hit. Legs are actually an easy target, on anything other than lights.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
So you're saying that sometime in the future it might be a better idea to not put ammo in the legs.
Right now, ammo in the legs.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I think I'm getting somewhere in my play, but I still seem to lose far more often than I win. My stats show I win only 32% of my matches .
When I do lose I'm typically top three damage on my team. Often I am first. So I don't think I suck that badly. I'd guess from my match summaries that I am a pretty average player. So why am I losing so much?
I think that's why I have a hard time maintaining my interest. Losing in this game is painful, and when it happens a few times in a row, I'd rather be doing something else.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Parkour: So you're saying that sometime in the future it might be a better idea to not put ammo in the legs.
Right now, ammo in the legs.
No.
Only thing covered by lag shield is lights. In a light I put it there, and in anything else I don't.
If you do, let me know what your screen name is. I could always use a few easy kills. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Because over half the people you drop against are probably in teams. Even in 2 teams of 4 comms make a difference.
Before ECM I was at about 80% wins, and that's with teaching new players which is fairly hard. Before I had so many new players I was at about 90%.
I am currently at 67%. And over half my matches have been with ECM in play, and while learning a new mech class, lights. It's a fairly steep learning curve, particularly in 8 man drops with no weight limits or matching.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Because over half the people you drop against are probably in teams. Even in 2 teams of 4 comms make a difference.
I wish there was a way to tell who the premade groupings are in the battle. In WoT its clear on the match screen, and they do their best there to always put premades equally on each side. Is there any attempt to balance in such a way in this game?
This was the game after I wrote my post: here. They aren't usually this clear cut, but its pretty easy to see that I was not the weak link .
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Not yet, but if you drop in a 8 man drop they are ALL premades, on both sides.
There will eventually be matchmaking, where tonnage or class of mechs are balanced. It's phase 3, and we are in phase 2 right now. Not sure on a date though.....although it can't come soon enough for me. Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
When I saw I got a kill assist on "GG Unit" I had to smile.
Of course, Sam doubled my damage done (at least). So I can't actually rub his nose in it or anything...
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I am going over pretty much every pro build I can see (I won't be able to talk about this stuff much soon because i'm getting into WoL) and pretty much every serious business build puts ammo that explodes in the legs, or in an ammodump arm.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Hey! we have a spare. want in on our group, assisting-me-kill jerk
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
WoL?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
friend tetriseyes
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I will, and I will be on tomorrow.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Right now the player base is....well, saying they aren't good is being kind. Once Planetary Conquest begins, things will change a lot.
Legs are what is for dinner!
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Put a SD 300 with two HS in my Stalker, and now I have the dual HS upgrade but to get Artemis I had to drop one of my four SRMs.
It's taking some getting used to but my heat is way more manageable.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Hey! we have a spare. want in on our group, assisting-me-kill jerk
Sorry, you guys have a habit of inviting me when I've already logged off for the night.
I may or may not be on tonight. Think we're staying in, but might watch a movie or something instead of gaming.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Also, I'm currently blowing my credits trying out as many different weapons as I can get my hands on. Right now I am running my K2 with two large pulse lasers and dual AC2's. It's pretty fun, but probably not as good my 2xLargeLaser and Guass rifle combo.
I'm curious what the "pros" think of the AC2 as a weapon. It doesn't hit for much, but when chain fired I'm basically always shooting the weapon, which is fun.
Edit: Also did a 2xLargeLaser, 2xMedLaser, 2xAC2 build for a few matches. The main problem is that I kept forgetting to fire the medium lasers, and when I did it just seemed to overheat me.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
AC2 is bad mechanically, it just feels satisfying.
Like a machine gun, which looks and sounds fun when being fired, but does basically jack all
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Thanks, I kind of figured that was the case. I've used them to good effect, but another weapon would probably have done better.
I've now maxed my basic xp unlocked, and am grumpy that I need two more cat's to go any further. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
It depends. If used in combo with others, it can be devastating. I have a friend who is pretty darn good who runs 4 AC 2's, and he is really good. He can sit on the top base in River City and snipe the other team while they are still on their base, usually killing 2-3 before they get half way up the river.
AC 5's are usually a better option, though. More bang for your buck.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: I am going over pretty much every pro build I can see (I won't be able to talk about this stuff much soon because i'm getting into WoL) and pretty much every serious business build puts ammo that explodes in the legs, or in an ammodump arm.
1) Where can I see these "pro builds"? Would be nice to see whats at the top of the current meta-game.
2) What the heck is WoL? Is that a clan/guild/whatever in MWO or something?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Getting online for awhile, if anybody wants to join me.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
WoL is the Word of Lowtax, the goonswarm faction in mwo.
If you hear people squawk, they're probably us goons.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
So are you guys using teamspeak or anything?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I get on Kwea's aformentioned teamspeak server, and wait in the "looking for group channel until somebody invites me.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
X = Premade Team Size
X < 5 or X = 8
It's a stupid setup.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
As for teamspeak, it greatly improves tactical awareness and ability.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Cool. Was grouped with Sam and a couple of his friends, but it didn't seem like anyone was using any voice over IP.
Anyway, thanks for the invite Sam if you are here. Was a lot of fun. Hope I didn't drag ya'll down too much .
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Parkour: WoL is the Word of Lowtax, the goonswarm faction in mwo.
If you hear people squawk, they're probably us goons.
yeah, a lot of talk so far. We just kill them when we drop. Standard operations against goons is to ignore chat, say nothing, and kill them. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
BB, who have your dropped with so far? If you are enjoying it feel free to join HHoD. I can send you a link if you want.
We have people from all over the world, and some people play a lot, so....not so much. We don;t have a lot of set requirements unlike a lot of groups, and we have a ton of new people, so it's fun.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I may be mixing them with some goons but, Mordale, Reapsman, Nolaren, Endgame, Dark Specter, Corvus, Sarithule, and Coburn.
I'm not sure if I'm ready to join a guild yet.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
It's all good, just wanted to offer.
I know Coburn and Nolaren. Thy are fairly new, but good people.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I'd like to also thank Sam for recommending the Jenner-F with 2xMedPulse and 4xSmallLaser. The thing is amazingly fun to pilot. I have an XL 280 engine, so that I could fit in the 5/5 heat sinks.
I'm getting lots of kills with it, and with the crazy "weave through your opponents" gameplay it encourages I often end up with assists on anyone my teammates kill. I survive a lot more in it too (lag shield?), which I didn't expect for a light mech. I think my contributions are sometimes greater than my damage done, because having a Jenner weave through their pack of mechs seems to draw their fire and disrupt the enemy team quite a bit.
So my kill/death and win ratio both seem to be climbing since I started using it as my primary. But they were so bad to begin with that both stats are still terrible. Ah well.
And that's with me still not really knowing what to do with it. I think my main goal as a player is to get better at targeting damaged mods. When I manage to do this it leads to kills, but more often I'm just spraying and praying.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
A good small mech can be invaluable at reporting enemy positions so your team can adapt, as well as you said disrupting. While they are trying to get a bead on you, they aren't paying attention to me and my stalker. When I do enough damage that they actually turn to face me, they now aren't watching you.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Yeah I still haven't done any matches with teamspeak. Maybe this weekend if I have a free night. Though come to think of it, I don't think I will.
Also, I want to say that as much fun as the completed Jenner build above is, I'm kind of pissed about having to buy the other two to move up to the elite pilot skills.
Okay, fine, I'll buy the JR7-D. Twin streaks and 4xMedLasers (or something like this) is probably really fun and I can move my engine over from the JR7-F.
But the JR7-K is just the JR7-D with one less missile slot! Unless there's something I'm missing here. That's BS. Why on earth would I want to buy that one and play it long enough to get the basic unlocks...
It's almost enough to make me quit playing, to be honest. I want lots of different and varied mechs to try, not three of the same but slightly different.
[ January 11, 2013, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Xavier ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
There will be eventually but they have done a decent job of rolling out mechs so far.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Xavier: I hear that. I think that aspect is just ridiculous and stupid design. It's clearly a design choice that revolves around greed.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: There will be eventually but they have done a decent job of rolling out mechs so far.
I think maybe you didn't understand my post. It's not that there aren't a wide variety of mechs to buy. It's that instead of buying them I'll be buying two more friggen Jenner's. Then when I am done I'll be buying two more friggen Catapult's so I can use the 27K experience that's just sitting on my K2.
I agree BB, its purely to force you to grind or spend real life money. I understand it, I do. In World of Tanks it takes hundreds and hundreds of battles to get to the top tanks. I've played 2500 or so (no joke) and still don't have a "tier 10" tank. So that's even more of a grind. The difference there is that there's a progression to your grinding, where here its just an obvious set of hoops to jump through.
[ January 12, 2013, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: Xavier ]
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I think it would be a much better idea to unlock those second tier attributes by either having your equip your mech with various other weapons/systems, or setup an achievement list as a prerequisite.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I don't like it, but I understand it. I just spend 10 bucks and convert my 200,000 xp points I STILL have on my Hunchy over to general xp, they buy it and sell it.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, because I don't think you got what I was referring to, Xavier. What I was referring to is that they will make more variants soon, and you will have greater options in each class, and within each chassis. That will let you avoid having to play a chassis that sucks, like the Raven 2X, just to max it out. You will have greater options to choose which 3 chassis you drive to get to the elites.
It will still be a bit of a grind, but at least you will have choices to make. They way it is now, often you HAVE to take what is given because there are only 3 available in each mech. That will make it far more palatable to me, at least. I hate being railroaded into a specific chassis.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea:
quote:Originally posted by Parkour: WoL is the Word of Lowtax, the goonswarm faction in mwo.
If you hear people squawk, they're probably us goons.
yeah, a lot of talk so far. We just kill them when we drop.
Of course. With your wicked ERPPC loadouts and ac2 sniping, without a doubt.
I don;t usually, but if you play as well as you debate, I could probably take YOU like that.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I had fun playing last night BB. It was a new group, filled with pretty much nOObs, but it was fun. They need to get a little better at aiming, and they didn't stay together very well, but overall they did pretty good for guys who just started playing.
I like training, but nights like that are why I still play with my friends who have a little more experience. 8 man groups are tough now with ECM still overpowered and the lag shield still engaged. Lights are tough, far tougher than they should be.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Yeah, a pack of ECM lights is pretty much game over for the other team, from what I've seen so far.
It's just not fun. I'm not sure what the devs were thinking with how ECM currently functions.
There are lots of ways they can attempt to balance it, and they better do so fast. I don't see myself playing long term if they are going to leave the metagame so broken.
I considered buying an ECM capable Raven or Commando myself just to fight fire with fire, but I don't want to further contribute to its overuse in games. Also I'm also assuming that they'll nerf it right after I finish my ECM build, if I choose to work towards one .
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I have an Atlas D-DC, and a Raven 3L. They are fun.
I have no issue with ECM, but once again I feel like I am railroaded into picking those chassis. I have won more than a few matches against ECM heavy teams, but it's MUCH harder to do. Harder than it should be.
I imagine they will just have ECM stop stacking. That would make thins a bit more even. Also, I think they either need to make it work for THAT mech, or significantly shrink it's area of effect.
Tag is a short term gap filler, but there needs to be another way to at mitigate it's effect beyond ling of sight Tag,
Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
So I got MWO and tried it. My first round was basically *spawn* *die* for me, but the second round I actually managed to survive with a trial Raven. I got a kill too! Admittedly, this is probably because the guy I killed refused to walk over the hill I was ducking behind and then popping up to shoot him.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
It's more fun with comms, so feel free to drop in. Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: I don;t usually, but if you play as well as you debate, I could probably take YOU like that.
Not that I want to jump in the middle of obvious trashtalk baiting, but do you guys still seriously use ERPPCs?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Depends on the build. Until they change the PPC's (removing min range) they work for me. Then again, I hardly use PPC's at all.
If I do, I only take one or two, and snipe, so I like the better range. Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Kind of an amusing game. The enemy team killed seven of our mechs. We killed not a single one of theirs.
(I capped one last node and then hid in the tunnel for it to hit 750)
[ January 19, 2013, 11:27 PM: Message edited by: Xavier ]
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Awesome.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Cool...it's a fun game, and it looks like they will be nerfing the ECM soon. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
They are changing ECM and PPC's this week and next, finally. I've been using a ERPPC/Gauss build for a week now, averaging 600-1100 damage with it as a sniper.
I'll probably drop to PPC's once they get rid of the minimum range for them on the 19th though.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
How are they being changed?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Well....PPC's always had a disrupt effect on electronics. In other games (and TT) it made things shudder/flicker. ECM is electronic, so it will start shutting down a mechs ECM for 5 seconds with each hit.
PPC's have a minimum range. Inside of 90 meters they do 0 damage right now. They are removing the minimum range, which means that PPC's no longer are a weak option. They have about the same range as a Gauss (actually a little better), and do 10 damage to a single panel per hit.
There are going to be new sensor modules that shrink the ECM bubble as well. Advance Sensor Range will let you lock on up to 70 meters sooner, allowing more time for missile locks, and making it easier to see ECM mechs.
And the heat for PPC's and ERPPC's will be slightly reduced.
This is going to mess up game balance, as some mechs are capable of carrying 5-6 PPC's. PGI has already said they are aware of this, and are working on a solution to avoid allowing people to boat most larger weapon systems.....SSRMS, PPC/ERPPC, and LRM's. They just haven't said WHAT their possible solution will be yet.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
iiiiiiiiinteresting.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
PGI doesn't have to do much about the threat of boating PPC's, because boating PPC's is still really silly given the current heat mechanics and the limitations of heat dissipation/capacity.
ERPPC's will continue to be stupid and bad. Much to the chagrin of the eventual arrival of the clans.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Not really. But YMMV.
I am running an Atlas sniper with 2 ERPPC and a Gauss. It does a moderate 35 damage.
All to one panel. And I can fire it as often I like. And it hits for full damage to 600 meters, and 75% damage at 900 meters.
I've had it for less than a week, and I am getting 4-5 kills a match, and starting to be able to headshot other people at 600 meters, for an instant kill. Against other 8 man teams.
But you're right, they suck. LOL.
Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
Come on, Samp. You obviously haven't experienced the joy of having a light mech walk up to you and get into the PPC uselessness umbrella expecting to be completely safe from your destructive might. It's so much fun to one-shot the suckers when they do that. That said, totally switching to regular PPCs when the 90m min range goes away.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: I've had it for less than a week, and I am getting 4-5 kills a match, and starting to be able to headshot other people at 600 meters, for an instant kill. Against other 8 man teams.
Your current brag record along with how you had a friend who was using an AC2 for "usually killing 2-3 before they get half way up the river" in river city and the fact that you disagreed chronically with using leg slots for ammo has left your anecdote and build strategy beyond suspect, just FYI.
And yes, the ERPPC is a bad weapon. It is just being made moderately less bad, in response to it being bad. Like right now you are defending a weapon as not-bad which is getting hopefully-make-it-not-bad buffs in response to it being bad. This is not a "YMMV" thing, it's the game's mechanics. The weapon simply has from day one generated way too much heat for its effective output, so in terms of pro builds there are zero that don't benefit from removing it in favor of other equipment.
quote:Come on, Samp. You obviously haven't experienced the joy of having a light mech walk up to you and get into the PPC uselessness umbrella expecting to be completely safe from your destructive might. It's so much fun to one-shot the suckers when they do that.
I have experienced that joy, of course, but I experience more joy when they are using ERPPC's. It means our mechs are better than theirs and we will win.
Anyway, mittens & co are probably going to do a comprehensive review of new ppc's when they drop and I'll know soon enough if there's enough incentive to noodle around with new zone denial mechs using PPC's. I want that, since PPC's have been my go-to weapon in the tabletop and is my personal favorite.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Thank you, oh walking font of mechwarrior knowledge. LOL.
BTW...since the lag shield is gone, isn't having ammo in your legs fun? Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I can't wait until the minimum range goes away as well. PPC's will be a better option, IMO, once rushing you isn't the best defense against them. My point was never that ERPPC's were great, just that they weren't as bad as Samp was saying.
I believe Samp knows as much about Mechwarrior as he knew about drugs, back when he claimed to be an expert about them. In other words, he is good a spooling other people's words back out as long as you don't examine the actual content.
But it's not the first time someone....Samp or others...has talked out his ass here, so go for it.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Kwea: Dude, tone down the over hostility please. Sam is just saying what he thinks the meta is going to be, there's no reason to be antagonistic about it.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Riiight. I was the only one being hostile.
I do apologize for the tone of the post though. I am here in PA for a funeral, and I was not having a good day. I shouldn't have gotten in your face about it, Samp. I'd take it down, but I don't want anyone to think I was trying to hide it.
(edited because apparently I can't type)
[ February 07, 2013, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
Well there's no need to feud over space robot combat game, all it is is that yeah some of the testimony and build strategy you havegiven us in this thread is really suspect, respectfully the notion of a person who kills one or more people in the river with ac2's was our "uhh yeah right" moment. Really I'm also confused, i thought that the lag shield didn't cover heavy mech legs to begin with, so what would have changed? We still ammo up the legs (and the head)
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
My missileboat actually has 5t ammo. Two in each leg, one in the head. There's never been anyplace better for it, ever. not the side torsos, DEFINITELY not the center torso.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I don't like AC2's, but Praetorian's in my group did exactly that more than once. Once maps are larger they will be better, but I personally don't use them. I just don't think that they are useless.
Heavy's and assaults have more armor on their legs, and so get critted less. Ammo explosions only happen on crits.
Thank what you want. Just because your people suck at range with AC2's doesn't mean everyone does, and Praet was using 4 AC2's, which are more than capable of hitting at full damage all the way down the river. The big move at the time was the Braveheart rush, and he killed 1 before it even closed, and the second one in the river before the base of the ramp. He ended up with 1100 damage plus.I killed 2 with my Gauss kitty. It was a good match, when they are down 4 before the rush is over.
The lag issues were most evident on lights, but it was fairly hard to get hits on legs to register on all mechs until the patch. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. Now......it's FAR easier to leg people, and most of our guys have started putting back some armor on their legs.
[ February 09, 2013, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Let me know if you guys want to scrim some. You know, since I am lying and you know everything. LOL.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
kinda got a little bit too weird and personal for that yo
but i can at least, as resident drug AND mechwarrior expert, share videos of me playing MWO high as a kite on oxy
I need more SRM ammo in my Stalker.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Good excuse.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Yes, it unironically is, kwea.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I seriously don't get why there is *any* animosity in this thread at all. You both like the same game, you are both good at it, you are in different clans so there's that...
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
It's a manhood thing.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I seriously don't get why there is *any* animosity in this thread at all. You both like the same game, you are both good at it, you are in different clans so there's that...
It's the Hatrack Teen Boy Squad.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Tone is everything, and I don't like being called stupid and having my honesty questioned.
It's a game. I don't really care what he thinks of my opinions.
I just see this as a perfect example of why Hatrack is so hostile these days, and why most of the people who made this place so cool left.
::shrugs::
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I seriously don't get why there is *any* animosity in this thread at all.
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
This was just getting good.
Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: kinda got a little bit too weird and personal for that yo
but i can at least, as resident drug AND mechwarrior expert, share videos of me playing MWO high as a kite on oxy
Good lord this game looks terrible.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
In an attempt to better understand this thread I have lit my hair on fire and will have INTERPERSONAL CONFLICT over a game where you put lasers on a walking robot and bump into each other, also so I can better fit into mrsquicky's oft-repeated model of the "hatrack teen boy squad"
quote:It's a game. I don't really care what he thinks of my opinions.
Then if you don't — like, if you really don't — don't make it really weirdly personal and make it so obviously about more than just that we disagree about a game and you really have said some stuff which created legitimate doubt about the soundness of your statements, sorry dude.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I rest my case. Have fun storming the castle!
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Sam, you've literally said that people who disagree with your build theorycraft are smelly.
I'm not sure you have a leg to stand on in terms of who's being weirdly personal. And if you do, that leg is probably filled with explosive ammunition.
(Did I get that right? All I know about this game I learned from reading this thread.)
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I'm sure I was deeply totally profoundly 100% serious when i said that people who disagree with me smell and that was in no way lighthearted sarcasm pretty much making fun of the idea that i was being territorial about space robot build theorycraft in any way in the first place.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Well, no, it was totally sarcasm. But that sort of comment can still rankle someone who does disagree with you, yeah? Even if you don't literally think they smell, it sort of goes with the very strident way you were asserting your theorycraft superiority.
I can see now how it could've actually been meant to be making fun of your own strident attitude, but that wasn't quite how I read it at the time. I read it more as ridiculous silly hyperbole for laughs, but implicitly saying that people who disagreed with you had no idea what they were talking about.
In hindsight, I can see it could go either way.
Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I seriously don't get why there is *any* animosity in this thread at all. You both like the same game, you are both good at it, you are in different clans so there's that...
The pressure valve. It broke.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
I think you can be strident and confident about game theory without it being a fight, and kwea did take it way too far. In fairness to issues about sammo's tone just imagine literally every single post here of his has a big giant authentic smiley face, even the last one. Sam does not get mad at video games.
Sincerely, a person who almost started fighting about video games in this thread with kwea but was pulled away irl from the abyss.
In conclusion, ERPPC's are still awful, even on hardpoint limited mechs, as is the ER large laser. Lets fight about that, and you smell if you play in a commando.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I think you can be strident and confident about game theory without it being a fight, and kwea did take it way too far.
For what it's worth, I think both Kwea and Sam took it too far; Sam's a Goon, so he does that with a smile on his face and a song in his heart, but he had to know that it was like poking a bear. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_Frank: Sam, you've literally said that people who disagree with your build theorycraft are smelly.
I'm not sure you have a leg to stand on in terms of who's being weirdly personal. And if you do, that leg is probably filled with explosive ammunition.
(Did I get that right? All I know about this game I learned from reading this thread.)
Yep, it was pretty funny. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
At least we agree on commando's. For the most part.
I did take it too far, not because of the game itself but because of the tone of the conversation and some of the things that were said. I also apologized, stated I only left it up because deleting it would have been unfair, and went on to talk about the actual game.
I was in PA for a funeral of someone I loved, and was feeling out of sorts, exhausted, and I overreacted. It's not an excuse, mind you.....tired, hurt, or not, people are responsible for what they say and how they say it. But it does explain why I took repeated sarcasm wrong and lashed out a bit.
I was hardly the only one being hostile, though. Take a look at my posts before that one, and they are about the game. Not attacks on players who disagree with me. I didn't claim that anyone who disagreed with me was stupid, smelly, or lying. That was all other people.
Samp....as I said I am sorry for snapping at you. We've known each other for a while here at Hatrack, and while we aren't friends you deserved the benefit of the doubt, or at least a PM asking what the issue was, I suppose. I know you are sarcastic, and usually it doesn't bother me as I can be sarcastic too.
Enough said, as far as I am concerned.
[ February 12, 2013, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Umber, Samp is running his mechs the same way I do, on heat vision. It is actually a decent game graphics wise, better than the past ones.
Nice build on the Stalker, Samp. I played one similar for a while. If you can get in close it is brutal.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
it's really okay, i am sorry there was so much of an opportunity for a confluence of hostility over a game, i want this to be about blowing robots up too??
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Hands down, man.
I like giving people crap too, as long as they don't mind joking like that. That's why I was surprised at myself for being offended the next day. LOL.
I might rebuild your Stalker, BTW. With that build you HAVE to have ammo in the legs, it makes more sense now that I see what you were doing. In other games it was not a good idea, but it seems to work OK in MWO. 5 SRM6's was brutal.
I think the meta is shifting more to sniping, but I doubt jump sniping will ever be as effective as it was in MW4. It will keep getting better with the PPC patch, of course...and it will be overpowered at first more than likely. But in MW4 it was pretty much impossible to beat if you were good at it.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
New Patch is finally up....after 5 or 6 hours. Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
I don't ever have anyone target my legs when I'm in anything other than a light mech. So it makes sense to me to put the ammo there for the most part.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Depends on the quality of your competition, honestly.
Also, in other mech games if your leg went black and someone shot it again, you died. Legs are still a good target here, but aren't targeted much. Part of it is the lag shield.....some hits weren't landing on all legs, and they are working on fixing that. Not just on lights, although it was by FAR most obvious on lights.
I still like ERPPC's though. Not on every build, but on my sniper builds it rocks.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Looking forward to the 19th, that patch will change everything again. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
What are they doing then?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
At first I like, "It's funny because he overheats every time he fires." Then I looked over at the left side of the screen and saw the CBills rolling in.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
if you want a novelty sniper mech, you want the Hexalker
.. which I will now try.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
So how would you rate your experience?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
it's a really silly build. I can see it working kind of in organized drops where the team is built around poptarting and sniping, but it's so vulnerable otherwise and there's way better options for snipers.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Amen....something we agree on!
It's a fun build, and can be very effective, but overall not a good build.
Now....I have a guy in my unit running 5 PPC's very effectively, and that one is a little faster, and the heat is more manageable. But I'd say 4 is the sweet spot. You can put a ton of DHS in and fire more often, and add bump the speed. And 40 points of damage to a single panel, if you alpha strike, is significant.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
which chassis is he running five ppc's in?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Stalker 3 F, I think. I was over his house and he let me play it, but I've never built it myself. He added heat sinks so he could fire more often, it was pretty brutal.
My favorite so far is 4 PPC and SSRM's. It crushes things, and is faster than most Assaults. I still like ERPPC's, even more now that my heat vision lets me see over 1000 meters, but it all depends on if I am pugging or moving as a team. If I am pure sniping then I love hitting for almost full damage at 900 meters.
I'll probably build the 4 PPC and streaks as my next mech, to be honest. I've played it but not built it myself.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
the hexalker I built is already going the maximum speed a stalker can go. I think it is possible to make a valid 4PPC build with 21 DHS but it would be cut down to about 55-58kph.
Right now, I contend that the absolute best stalker (and, in fact, one of the best mechs in the game) is what they have titled the Rhino. My own runs a 310 standard and is built to the 3F chassis, because it inexplicably has torso twist equivalent to mediums or heavies. Just the 3F. I still don't understand why.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
change the config file to add FOV a little bit, it makes a difference. It lets you see further to the side, and helps when fighting lights a TON!
(if you haven't already, of course)
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I undo it for the videos but I do it if even just for the atmospheric effect. Standard FOV doesn't really feel .. large. The buildings look tiny and the atlas cockpit feels like it is just a big ball walking not too far above the ground.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I figured you probably had done it. It makes a difference.
The devs say they are going to add a slider to the final product to adjust that and the clarity/brightness of HV, so changing the config isn't cheating. Hell, they posted instructions on how to do it in the forums at one point, to adjust the mouse sensitivity...
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
the week's catch up brag-dump
This video is entitled "do not let me get a rhino stalker onto your base"
this is dumb for a trillion reasons
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Oh gosh. Pay to win is exactly right. What idiots.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
25 MC for the level 3 flush.
Oh boy in 12 games you've burned through a permanent extra mech bay, yeah I sure feel like doing that nope
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I would have no issue with this if you could buy it with c-bills and have it be the same things. But you can't. In order to get the full 35% coolant flush you would have to use TWO module slots. Also, MC users can equip more than one slot per match with them and have them take effect FASTER than people using c-bills.
Not cool.
Posted by Parkour (Member # 12078) on :
Really bad sign.
They are going down the road to Gold Ammo.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
hmm....they make you use 2 slots for c-bills....but you get 2 flushes per match, as opposed to 1 flush for MC.
I can live with that, but it sets a dangerous precedent IMO.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: hmm....they make you use 2 slots for c-bills....but you get 2 flushes per match, as opposed to 1 flush for MC.
I can live with that, but it sets a dangerous precedent IMO.
In the free-to-play model, spending money should not give you a single advantage (in the long-term) over somebody who does not. I am fine with literally every single thing in Mechwarrior being purchasable, but make it also earnable within a reasonable time frame. I play League of Legends, and it's taking me so long to earn enough IP points to have a good roster of champions and rune pages to support them. That's fine if somebody just buys all their champs and skins. It's fine I can't use IP points to buy cosmetic stuff like skins.
But the moment you create any items or abilities that require money, and are better than their earned counterpart, I lose interest. I'm trying to win with my skill, I don't want to be in the arena with somebody whose money gives them an edge, all things being equal.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Well, in order to get 2 flushes a match you'd have to use 2 slots, just like buying it with cbills. I'd never buy just one, it would be a waste.
Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
Oh good...A Jagermech with 6 ballistic hardpoints. As if 4 wasn't annoying enough already.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
All the ballistic hardpoints are in the arms. There's really not much in the way of new terrifying things the chassis can do with that. Six AC2's?
What it CAN do, however, is become the new boomcat. AC20's in the arms means you can pack an XL engine and overcome the boomcat's main deficiency, even throw on two mlas if you want.
^ that. be ready for that.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
We have a few builds for that too. I have never used it, but I will see what we've come up with so far. Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
We came up with a UAC5 build that is fun, and the AC2O version as well. Pretty fun mech, actually.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
hotfix utterly destroys missiles
but then again it came during the LRMPOCALYPSE
i'm kind of glad I've missed all this.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
LOL....it was pretty bad. LRM's are suppose to be good, but 1 hit heading an Atlas... and people getting hit with signification splash damage 30-40 years away?
Not fun.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Buggy night....looking forward to a more stable client again.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
so this here game sure has changed a lot
Host state rewind plus long range high alpha meta plus the game's tendency to put you on alpine and tourmaline 999 out of 1000 matches plus srm's being broken mean that we've been dropping in four mans of nothing but stalkers with 5 PPC's.
*srm's are very broken right now
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
And now I remembered I should update my client.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Hopefully you are listening to us goons, who are better than anyone at letting you know exactly where the state of the game is
Anyways, PPC's are good, both ER and regular. But 5 PPC stalkers are not unbeatable. Just close under cover.
I do well in my Highlander against them. 3 PPC and a Gauss is a little more manageable, and jump sniping is still a factor, although not as much. Jump Lets are a nice feature, but not a must have....although the new movement factor will change that significantly.
Once weight class balancing comes back in it will get better.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:goons are the best.
yes, this is correct.
literally everything they have been saying there has remained true for far too long. Brawling is still broken, 8 man queue is entirely stagnant (if you aren't running sniper, you lose, and well over half of Alpine matches resolve with the timer running out), we won something like 9 out of 10 of our games with organized 4 man sniper boats. Which we eventually gave up on, because peek sniping is getting really old. I have recently been suicide charge leveling up my terrible alt chassis (raven 2x/4x anyone) so I can get them out of my bays while I wait for balance fixes, or for these clowns to unf*ck brawling. SRM's just flat-out didn't work for a month, you could hit someone with them point blank and the game would register the damage in an area that the mech was not in, doing zero damage to the mech.
reticule shake means a lot of our highlanders are collecting dust since it shifted things around (slightly) to terrain peeking stalkers and boat atlai
Gantlemen i give you the game's current undisputed metarulers
Maybe you aren't playing the rest of the types well enough. Just a thought. We seem to well with brawlers, as long as they aren't pure brawlers.
I do agree that sniping is overpowered, and that SRM's need a bump. But between the wonky hit boxes and non-registering hits this past month it's been a weird time to play.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Maybe you aren't playing the rest of the types well enough. Just a thought.
I assume you have watched none of the twitch highlights I've posted in this thread.
Brawling is what I've done for the majority of this game's existence. I'm just not now because long range high alpha beats it solidly and brawling is non-viable without working SRM's.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I've watched a couple of them. I still seem to do fine with it, even against RHOD teams.
I spent a little time a while ago, back when no one else was doing it because it "wasn't the meta", sniping. So when it became OP, I was already good at it. I enjoyed it while it lasted, but believe it or not we agree on something....it got boring.
I am waiting for the "aggressive weapon's balancing" they promised to be sure. SRM need a bump, LRM's need to be fixed so 90% of their damage isn't CT damage :grumble. I DO like the new sounds, they are a lot better IMO.
And I like the CONCEPT of making it harder to move around, but they need to smooth out the way the mechs move because the idea of a 100 ton mech getting stuck on a little rock is moronic. You need to make sure all the ramps in and out of locations are under 45 degrees so mechs can climb them, and JJ need more of a vertical launch at initial engagement. They don;t jump as much as float at this point.
Looking forward to the new UI, and private rooms and matches.
[ July 05, 2013, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
ARISE YOU STUPID GODDAMNED THREAD
dust off your MWO accounts gents because the clans are in the process of dropping and it's ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS and the clan chassis and weaponry are INARGUABLY SUPERIOR so our next goal is to watch how many people stridently argue that the IS is better or just as good
In a while us space poors will be able to buy our front line clan tech using cbills instead of IRL cash
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Q. WHAT DID YOU MISS IF YOU HADN'T BEEN PLAYING FOR A WHILE UP TO ABOUT A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO OR SO
A. Pretty much nothing.
Long range high alpha sniping/peekfest/poptarting cored out the game's playerbase and ate a lot of organized interest in it, so MWO had been on the out and outs for quite a long time (some people were measuring activity in the organized match queue as an informal census).
UI 2.0 came out and it's terrible. Prettier, but less usable than 1.0 — outfitting a mech is now even more convoluted and less intuitive
PGI had a number of articles written about it in the gaming press that essentially boiled down to "what not to do to your fanbase when you are a game developer"
Ghost Heat was the dumbest thing in the entire universe and this is a universe that has Here Comes Honey Boo Boo so that is saying a lot
Long Range High Alpha (hereafter noodled down to LRHA) snipefests rotted for months and months and months and all the way through into the game's official informal 'launch.' It and other problems homogenized the gameplay for a quite considerable amount of time, up until a very recent recovery of the functionality of SRM's. During this entire time, brawling was dead as a doornail.
Q. SO WHAT'S DIFFERENT NOW
A. Well, they've finally started to eke out a few ways to dull out the idiocy of snipefest pinpoint alpha. More changes to end poptarting are perhaps on the horizon. Things like Gauss and PPC damage are starting to be sprayed around. PGI's glacial game improvement and balance pace has actually started to do some things to alleviate TTK. Also you could spend $500 to have a gold-plated mech ingame.
Q. WHAT, LIKE, FIVE HUNDRED LITERAL DOLLARS
A. Yes.
Q. WHAT
A. Yeah.
Q. WHAT
A. I know.
Q. OK WHAT SHOULD WE DO NOW
A. Dust off your old Stalkers and put large lasers on them, or bust out an oldschool poptart Cataphract. Experiment with new loadouts on the mechs that you have right now BUT DO NOT BUY ANY NEW MECHS RIGHT NOW, for the love of pete. Save up money. The Clans have at least three absolutely primo chassis and their loadout capacity is absolutely insane. Absolutely Insane. Clan mechs have already been posting insanely higher kdrs and damage output in game despite the fact that clan mechs are completely new and most everyone in them was starting out with empty mech talent trees vs. mastered out IS mechs.
So drop with friends (or goons w/e) and practice against clan mechs for a while and try to get your trigger finger back.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I'm scared to play again, and I can't on my new laptop since I forwent a decent video card for price savings.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
He's forgone the decent video card for price savings ... to put towards his $500 gold Mech. That's a bold strategy, Cotton, we'll see if it pans out.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
There are at least 5 viable non-PGI leagues moving forward, 3 of which have decent player-bases and multiple seasons under their belt.
Clan mechs are very good, but most of the high damage games showcased so far are against pugs....no wants to pop up right in a Direwolfs face with a 90 point alpha (pinpoint no less, so not sure where you think that is getting any better), but they only go 48 KPH and turn worse than an old Cadillac, so usually they are not that tough to take down.
There are some balance issues to work out, but the SRM buff has helped. A lot of competitive teams are going with fast-brawler comps, and the inner sphere lights are MUCH superior to the clans lights, and VERY effective against Clan Heavies and Assaults.
The Shadowhawk, Cataphract and the Jenner/Firestarter chassis are all still VERY viable, and the Victor has replaced the Highlander for snipe-brawling as the premium IS assault mech.
My units comp team finished in the top 10 ranked teams, and one season came in 3-4th in RHOD. We lost a few people who split off, but they were morons so it's better for us this way....and probably better for them overall.
And best of all....in about 3-4 months NBT will be back, with all the code re-written and ready to go for MWO. I can't wait, should be a blast.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Sam...almost every single comp team didn't start with empty talent trees. Most people converted the MILLIONS of unused xp on other chassis to GXP, and then at least basic'd them out. A lot of those Clan mechs are insanely hot running, and on a hot map they were overheating like crazy the first few days they were released.
I know SoK, SJ, The Templars, HHoD 007 (and 4th BTL, 5th BTL and 6th BTL teams), Antares Scorpions, and Blackstone Knights all had at least the basics done in the first day, and most of us had them Elite'd in the first night. The double basics were almost mandatory to run most Clan variants.
PGI did a hotfix....not a full patch, but a hotfix.....about 5 months ago and fried most people using nVidia mobile cards. So despite having a i7 laptop with a dedicated graphics card I dropped to 4-6 fps. It was basically unplayable. So I bought a new desktop, the first one I built myself, and put a decent graphics card in it, and now I am between 45-70 fps.....MUCH better.
I am also waiting for cBill purchases for the Clan mechs. I won't pay for mechs I never even tried. I figure they are bound to nerf them, so who knows how good overall they will be. In CW they will be dropping 8 vs 12, or maybe 10 vs 12.....the only way to even possibly balance Clan vs IS. IS mechs were always outgunned and outranged, but made up for it in numbers, 1 Star vs 2 Lances.
Also, the best part of MWO is now active....Private Lobbies work as intended! We can now do league drops WITHOUT trying to synch drop all night. often times not ever getting each other. This makes leagues and CW viable for the first time. and makes it easier to actually TRAIN new pilots. We love it!
[ June 29, 2014, 04:14 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Sam...almost every single comp team didn't start with empty talent trees.
This statement is not incompatible with anything I said.
quote: In CW they will be dropping 8 vs 12, or maybe 10 vs 12.....the only way to even possibly balance Clan vs IS. IS mechs were always outgunned and outranged, but made up for it in numbers, 1 Star vs 2 Lances.
I don't think PGI will manage any real balance even if they pull the star vs. lance card, but it will be hilarious to watch them try.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
You were talking about outlandish numbers posted, and said that was "despite the fact that clan mechs are completely new and most everyone in them was starting out with empty mech talent trees vs. mastered out IS mechs", which is not necessarily true. While most people may not do this, a lot of people did, and most of the high-skill players posting really improved KDR and damage numbers almost certainly did.
Most of the people posting high numbers are probably using full talent trees. I wasn't playing gotcha, just bringing up an additional point.
They have already announced that in their version of CW it is only clans vs IS, no mixing of tech or chassis at first. They have also said that they will be working out details of unbalanced drops for it, so it's pretty much a given it will be star vs lance, but no one knows what their version of that will look like yet.
[ June 29, 2014, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
8 vs 12 would probably be too much, and 10 vs 12 wouldn't be enough.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: You were talking about outlandish numbers posted, and said that was "despite the fact that clan mechs are completely new and most everyone in them was starting out with empty mech talent trees vs. mastered out IS mechs", which is not necessarily true.
Most of the people posting high numbers are probably using full talent trees. I wasn't playing gotcha, just bringing up an additional point.
They have already announced that in their version of CW it is only clans vs IS, no mixing of tech or chassis at first. They have also said that they will be working out details of unbalanced drops for it, so it's pretty much a given it will be star vs lance, but no one knows what their version of that will look like yet.
yeah i was using precise language. all data accounted for (by the amateur sleuths that are collecting whatever data we can get) shows most people with clan mechs cramming their pilot trees the old fashioned way, and even in that circumstance clan mechs are pumping out superior damage anyway even as they grind up to Master in their first chassis.
sometimes you can check just via spectating and seeing how many people in clan mechs have max speed showing no speed tweak. early on those dire wolves were usually uphill molassesing it around at their original max speed
this is per just all the players everywhere in general. i do not know whether to expect a greater or lesser divide in the organized match world but most commentary at that level so far is 'lol yes, surprising no one, the mechs that get to have 12 ton gauss rifles, two slot double heat sinks, xl engines that don't have side torso death, etc, are better wow what a twist'
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
currently the gods of the battlefield in terms of overall match damage and kdr are, of all things, the stormcrow and the warhawk. i would have expected timberwolf and dire wolf
ye olde clanne sure is packing heavy though, probably thanks to those daishis
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I downloaded the patches last night after seeing this thread. The new interface for the inventory and loadouts is god-awful. Like painfully, negligently, perhaps even maliciously bad.
After figuring out the interface, I played a couple of games. One with my K2, and one with my Jenner. I definitely have to work my way back up the learning curve. I was never a "good" player, but at one point I was at least semi-competent*. I'm not sure how long I'll stick with it, as there's currently a lot of competition from my Steam summer sale purchases.
I do like some of the graphical tweaks in the actual game. But my sound kept cutting in and out, which was a big turn-off.
*My experience with World of Tanks seems to indicate that I am at least capable of being a "good" player at this type of game. My stats from my matches there evaluate pretty well on the sites that do such calculation. But at my best in MWO I was getting to the point where I didn't feel like I was dragging my team down.
Edit: Rereading some of my posts in this thread, I reference World of Tanks entirely too often. I guess the two games are tightly linked in my head. I need to stop. Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
UI 2.0 really is amazingly bad, isn't it? Like I legitimately don't understand how they could be making that update from start to finish and thinking it was an acceptable improvement / user friendly or whatever
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I wish I'd had my streamer on. We started a game. Were walking across our first stretch of the map. I watch a mech beside me peek out to look at the ridge.
A dire wolf with this loadout plugged him with one shot.
Someone else walked up to where the first guy died, and then jumpjetted up to see if he could poptart the offending dire wolf. BLAM. dead in one shot midair, fell on the corpse of the first mech.
here i realized three things
1. this is happening in spite of gauss 'splash' just simply because the alpha is so high
2. that's weird; live mechs have no collision with dead mechs, but dead mechs have collision with other dead mechs, as these two mechs were now in a dead mech corpse pretzel
3. i'm staying right here thanks
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Why are there any configurations that can kill somebody in one shot?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
that's the age old question, isn't it? this game could have solved 99% of its problems by heartily adjusting average TTK — they could have even experimented with not just doubling but TRIPLING armor and internals values versus weapon damage output, in order to cause fights to narrow down to protracted affairs that promote heat efficiency and bracketing
indeed, back when the game was brawly, this game was doing very well. It had a not-stagnant, all-range meta and gameplay was loose enough that you could screw around and play robot fite and have a hell of a lot of fun. Then the organized full-team gameplay got stagnant, slowly birthing long range high alpha peek'n'snipe crapfests.
And this is what's confusing. At this point, any other developer would have nipped this in the bud rather easily. But, apparently, for some inexplicable reason, this broke their minds or something. Instead they concentrated on ghost heat and incremental damage increases that did no good for any weapon and a completely pointless third person they had originally promised not to do.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
now the timberwolf is pulling ahead in rating. makes sense. it can pack an absurd amount of armament, and it goes 90 kph and can jump.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
yeah...the only reason the Warhawk was ever up there was the absurd all-CLRM loads used in PUG matches.
The TW is a good jump sniper, and can brawl.
They are nerfing JJ's across the board, and combined with the new fall damage protocols it is making sniping viable but not as overpowered. Fast brawl comps are popping up in competitive matches now, and should be fun.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
MRBC is all IS unless BOTH teams agree to include Clan's, which we will not allow until they can be bought with c-bills. I believe some of the other leagues are going to implement star vs lances combat for teams who want clan mechs, probably 10 vs 12, now that we can do unequal teams.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
i swapped accounts for a while, played on both a daishi and a timberwolf
dear lord it's amazing what you can do in a daishi when you're coordinated
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