I went on a walk today, ended up at the mall, decided to wander over to B&N and sit for a spell.
A very large man at the cellphone kiosk YELLED at me: "HEY, SIR! HOW WOULD YOU LIKE a FREE PHONE THAT YOU CAN TAKE HOME RIGHT NOW?!?"
Me: (Very quiet, monotone) "I have a phone, thank you."
Kiosk Dude: (Hands on hips, huffing and puffing) "YOU HAVE A PHONE? HEY, MAN, WHY DO YOU SOUND SO DEPRESSED? SIR?!? COME BACK!!!"
I'm sure this is far from a unique experience. In every mall I've ever been to, the phone kiosk people are loud, pushy, invasive, rude...not even the faintest vestige of actual people skills.
If anyone reading this -is- a mall phone kiosk person...well, I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule. But I have yet to encounter any.
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Believe it or not, those skills work. I have a hard time believing it, but they do. Most of those people are very skilled salespeople.
They don't just wait inside their little kiosk, they engage people. For every person they piss off, they get 5 others who remember them, and a good percent of those buy.
And most of the people they piss off wouldn't have bought anything regardless of how they had been approached.
I still find them annoying, myself. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Unless you are somebody that would have bought from him and didn't because of his behavior, there is no (economic) reason for him to change. And as long as there are more people who respond favorably to his tactics than people who don't buy but would have otherwise, his behavior consitutes intelligent use of people skills.
Whether that's the situation with this guy I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to discover that it is.
FWIW, I often am the person that gets pissed off enough to not do buisness with somebody who pisses me off by using obnoxious tactics. The big problem with the retail world is that not enough people are like you and me.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I think the problem is I'm using a narrow definition of "people" skills. I -don't- include glad-handing, "friendly" loudness, or other falsely-boisterous, in-your-face and affected behaviour as being that. They may be good SALES skills.
I define people skills as showing a honest, unforced regard for the thoughts and feelings of other people.
Something the kiosk guy was not showing in any sense. He saw me as a part of his sales quota, and was determined to snag me...even to the point of PRETENDING to care about my emotional state.
posted
Right, but you don't matter. Dollars matter, and if you don't represent enough of them, you really mean nothing, both on a political sense and a economic sense.
Which is depressing.
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:You assume that annoying you means they have no people skills.
On the contrary, being a succesful salesman often involves annoying people in certain ways.
I think you need to modify your statement this way:
You're able to be a moderately successful salesman of impluse items by annoying people in certain ways.
However, refraining from being annoying is just one small part of how to become a wildly successful salesman who creates lasting relationships with customers who feel you care about their needs nearly as much as your own, and who would never dream of purchasing from anyone else.
Posts: 1894 | Registered: Aug 2000
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They're not skills, so much as they're attributes. Attributes are to skills as knowledge of building is to tools.
The "skill" is like, "I'm good with a hammer." "I can smile at customers." "I have a good delivery of a sales pitch."
The "attribute" goes deeper. It's like "I know how two walls have to go together if you want them to stay up." "I sincerly like my customers." "I belive in finding ways to meet my customer's needs, and not just sell them the amount of product that can get them the most money."
People with worthwhile attributes are MUCH better off than people who have only skills, but no attributes. The person who desperately wants to keep his customers happy is much better off than the guy who's mastered one or two "skills."
Because when trouble comes up, the guy with the attributes still has principles guiding him. While to the guy with the skills . . . well, he's like the proverbial guy with the hammer. To him, everything looks like a nail.
Posts: 1894 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I would also argue that you'd be hard pressed to find more worthwhile attributes in salesmen, or managers, or parents, or anybody than one Puffy listed.
Posts: 1894 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I think you can be a very good salesperson without being loud and obnoxious. I wasn't half-bad at it, and I managed to give people the impression that I cared about them, which meant they trusted me a lot more. I was downright charming, if I do say so myself.
quote:Originally posted by pH: I think you can be a very good salesperson without being loud and obnoxious. I wasn't half-bad at it, and I managed to give people the impression that I cared about them, which meant they trusted me a lot more. I was downright charming, if I do say so myself.
A lot of it depends on the sales environment. Some environments practically require that you be obnoxious in order to be succesfull.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
True, but people often have different measuring sticks for what constitutes annoying or rude.
Point blank....he engages people, and doesn't wait for them to come to him. It really does work.
There is a fine line to walk there, but a lot of very successful salespeople are always treading right on that line. You don't want to go too far, as that guy did, but a little overboard works better than being understated, at least from a sales perspective.
Nothing is worse than a salesperson who doesn't actively engage people. He doesn't sell, and that hurts the company, the salesperson, and the customers.
That is why I was always really good at sale, but never the top seller. I like people to much to annoy them on purpose. I am a better manager than I was a salesperson, because I can help my people walk that line without crossing it.
Or at least that is my intent. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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The salesman is trying to alter reality where in you end up with his product and he ends up with your money. All he has to accomplish this miracle is the product and what you would commonly consider the behaviors of a fantasy magician: Words spoken perfectly, bodily movements choreographed to ritual perfection, and the specific magical regalia--the clothes on his back.
Trust me, each of these have been studied, written upon, debated, and if successful, employed by that salesman. "Dress for Success" "The Power of Body Language" "Sales Pitches that Work" are all top selling books and mandatory reads in many sales training programs.
The spell he cast on you just misfired. He got the somatic portion wrong, being too loud. As a result he suffered the penalty of such misfirings, he tasted the bitter fruit of rejection.
Now there are worse penalties, up to and including physical violence, but the vast majority of pain the salesman/magician must face is the sting of rejection.
Rejection is powerful enough to zap many would be powers from ever casting another spell/sale. These are the majority of mall kiosk salespeople you see, sitting quietly on their stools, counting the seconds until they can be anywhere else. These order takers serve you worse than the loud obnoxious ones because they are even reluctant to give you what you want, when you want it.
How are Magicians treated in all the fantasy books we read? For every Gandolf, Merlin, or Raistilan we have salesmen that are feared, hated, worshipped and loved like Trump, Mary Kay, Abramhof. The majority, however, are shunned, joked upon, and treated like unwelcome scum--much the way we treat Used Car Salesmen, Insurance Salesmen, and that different type of wizard (who changes reality with a clause or a phrase) the lawyer.
That is because there are two types of Magicians and Salespeople. There are the Good and the Evil. The Evil care only about the instant gratification of extracting your money into their pocket. The service or product they are selling is immaterial. They are the types who could "Sell Ice to an Eskimo."
The good type is exemplified with Kwea. Kwea cared more about the people she was selling too, than in the profit she was making. A good salesperson fits the product to the customers need, not force the product on the customer. A good salesperson fights to make sure the customer is better off after the spell/sale than before. They insure good products and services go where they are needed.
And as Kwea pointed out, such good Salespeople are usually not as successful, not as powerful, as the evil ones. On the other hand, they can and do last longer as their clients return again and again for the good service.
So what can you do to protect yourself from Evil? Be wary of the tricks and spell components that are often used.
For example, two great words of power that are used often:
ONLY and JUST
When you hear these words, be prepared. For they place the overpriced into the realm of value. Would you rather buy a Widget that was $100 or one that was "Only $100"? Would you buy that widget for $100 or prefer to buy it for "Just 5 payments of Only $25 each."
The newest power word, "Introductory" as in "For our introductory APR of only 5%,..." which changes to 19% after 3 months, or "Sign up with our broadband service for this special introductory rate of $19.95/month" which three months later jumps to $69.95/month.
There is one more thing to know though...the average sale includes the word NO at least three times.
That's right...No doesn't really mean no.....in sales.
People walk into a suit department and a salesperson says "Can I help you". Most people he says that to answer with three words....."I'm just looking."
Is that true? No, it isn't. Some are, of course, but most people go into a store not to look, but to buy.
If the salesperson took everyone who says "Just looking" at their word, he would rarely make a single sale. That is the first "No.".
I usually said " Well, are you looking for something specific?", or something like that. If they said no, then I would say " Well, let me tell you where things are, and if you need any more help you can just let me know.", and then walk away.
2min later, I would ask if they needed anything, just so they would know I was there and ready to help.
Sometimes I lost sales that way, because another salesperson would go up and ask them if they needed help....and they said "Yes!". Not because they didn't like me, or they had an agenda...but because they had already said no two to three times. Lost sales can cost you your job, so you have to be somewhat aggressive in defending you customers from other salespeople....and oddly enough the best, non-offensive way to do that is to stay close and continue to provide good customer service.
As a salesperson, the most important thing to know is not to take no's personally. People need time to adjust, and to determine what they want. If you stop at the first no you aren't helping them, really, and you aren't helping yourself.
In order to help them you have to get past the no's. Not be rude, like this guy was, but be proactive.
Also, you have to engage people. That guy was engaging people, although his technique needed work. But I bet he was noticed, and once he began speaking one on one with people his manner and his tone changed, He was using being over the top to break the ice, and it worked.
Just getting noticed is hard work in that type of sales position. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Kwea: Sometimes I lost sales that way, because another salesperson would go up and ask them if they needed help....and they said "Yes!". Not because they didn't like me, or they had an agenda...but because they had already said no two to three times.
posted
Upon a dazed half-wakening from an open heart surgery, I heard someone (whom I assumed to be me) referred to as "he." This caused me no end of consternation, and I do believe they turned up the morphine again at that point.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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quote:Nothing is worse than a salesperson who doesn't actively engage people. He doesn't sell, and that hurts the company, the salesperson, and the customers.
I can think of a lot of things which are worse than somebody who tries to get me to buy stuff. And on average, stuff I don't need.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Nothing is worse than a salesperson who doesn't actively engage people. He doesn't sell, and that hurts the company, the salesperson, and the customers.
I can think of a lot of things which are worse than somebody who tries to get me to buy stuff. And on average, stuff I don't need.
Not true from an employers viewpoint. An employee who refuses to engage people is far worse because they will put him out of business.
Like I said, I dislike idiots approaching me when I am walking in the mall as well, but i understand why they do. I am not justifying their behavior, but explaining it.
There is a difference.
(Edit):::sorry, I misread your post, mph. My point is still valid, although it doesn't actually respond to your comments. :::
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
When I need to buy someone and need to talk to a salesperson I find I get great mileage out of treating them like professionals. Giving them respect, and asking questions that force them to rely on their expertise. I've trained salespeople. Not in sales skills - but I trained pharmaceutical sales reps on computer equipment and software and to do that required I was present at all the sales meetings, so I've sat in on many a sales training session.
I'm well familiar with how the sale works and what tactics are employed and I'm also aware that reps who sell high-end items are very highly trained and intelligent people who are just trying to make a living like the rest of us. I tend to have a much better encounter if I remember that and treat them with respect while at the same time demanding they treat me the same way.
If, however, they don't live up to my expectations I'm quick to dismiss them. If I ask you a technical question about something and you can't answer it and don't immediately try to find me the answer, you've lost any potential of selling to me.
I asked a car sales man once a question about a van I was looking to buy, and requested a feature that he waved at me dismissively and said "I don't know, but you wouldn't need it anyway."
Needless to say, he got no commission from me.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
As it should be, Belle. I might have said "It isn't a common request, and most people would not use it.", but I would have followed that up by trying to find out the information needed.
If I don't know the answer, I try to find it. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
The hubby used to use me as salesman bait. We would go to a store knowing exactly what we wanted and where it was, usually under under glass, requiring a salesperson to get it for us. After being unable to get a salesperson (sometimes even standing at a service desk in line for some time), we developed this strategy.
If no one approached us and we couldn't find a salesperson in the section where the item was located, he'd send me out to a more populated part of the store with the orders, "Stand in the walkway looking cute and clueless."
Every single time we did this, I had a salesman in hand in less than a minute.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Funny. In electronics stores (back in Canada), I could hold a wad of cash in my hand above my head and still couldn't get the salespeople to come to my aid. They just continued to chat amongst themselves ignoring me until a MAN came in the store.
Because only men spend enough to make it worth their while to try to earn a commission. [/snarky]
Either that, or I was never attractive enough.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
The job ads for mall phone kiosk positions all say the same thing:
'Remember, people do not come to the mall to buy phones. It will be your job to convince them that they need a new phone, today, now, with us.'
And it's true. If I want a new phone, the mall is the last place I think of; the employees there have limited inventory and extraordinarily limited negotiating power, so I avoid them like the plague. They have, however, successfully gotten me to reinvestigate a cellular provider on the basis of new model phones or new plans.
I use them for information. This is good for the company; their kiosks are serving a purpose, even for people like me who have no intention of making a purchase there. But it sucks to be those salespeople, since if I go into another store and buy the phone there, they sure as hell don't get the commission.
In short: I sympathize with the OP, but I sympathize much more with the salespeople. If they need to be annoying to be successful, I'm inclined to blame the consumer.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Meaning that salespeople only use annoying tactics because they work. If consumers never bought from annoying salespeople, salespeople would never use those tactics. Hence, the consumers fault.
posted
Olivet--my wife shocked a friend of ours when they went shopping. She needed something on the top shelf, well above her reach. She took off at a fast pace searching.
"What are you looking for?" our friend asked.
"A man" my wife answered.
"Ooh, shopping for a man. Sounds better than buying a dozen eggs." This friend of ours greatly approved of the salesman my wife found, and even though they joked about wrapping him up and taking him home, they didn't.
Which is why I never let my wife shop alone, or worse, in the company of certain female friends.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Keep in mind that those kiosks are pretty much the bottom of the food chain in sales though. You won't see a lot of people are the very top of the sales profession acting that way as they try to convince someone to but millions of dollars of items from them.
I worked with the #1 salesperson in suits for the JCPenney company. While as a person she was nice, as a co-worker she was one of the worst people I have every worked with. She didn't help new people at all, she was pushy with her customers, she was very pushy with her co-workers, she stole commissions, and she didn't finish her sale before starting new ones (leaving others to ring or fit for her, but still demanding the commission on the sale).
She also sold x5 as many suits as I did. And I was really good.
No one is x5 times better than I am. No one. No one can really wait in 15-20 people at a time, but she would try to claim all of them, even though I was spending more time with her sales than she was.
Now I am management, and I still only make what she does....but I won't be just a jewelry manager in 5 years. Or if I am it will be in a much larger store, making a lot more money.
In the sort run, acting like an ass makes money. In the long run, it can go either way.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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