posted
Recently I was accepted to a good university on a partial academic scholarship. I start in the fall. I enrolled as a Business Administration Major, but because I had enough of business in Community College, I changed my major to English, which always what I wanted to take.
I'm not sure how much preparation I would need before I go. I assume that knowing how to speak and write english is all I really need.
After looking over the list of classes, I think I can test out of some of the base ones, unless I have to take them for the credits. I'll ask my advisor about that.
I've never been involved in something like this, so I just need to know what to expect.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Well, unless you want to spend the next few months reading up on the classics, you're pretty much okay... they'll have you reading tons of stuff soon enough, heh.
Posts: 5663 | Registered: Jun 2000
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Oh, that would just break my heart. I would be forced to read books I have always meant to read.
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As David says, there's almost always more than enough to read when you get there. I doubt you'll take much theory in your first year and at an undergrad level it tends to start pretty easy anyway.
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Easy is relative. I know I'll be fine. I look forward to the challenge, as long as I have enough time for bowling.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Congratulations on the uplifting turn of events! To prepare, read, read, read. Every day. Menachem Begin said that people who *really* know something read 150 pages a day, or more. That amount is probably a stretch for the average person, but a nice goal (and attainable) to reach for.
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
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I read 150-200, or even more pages a day when I was a teenager, but I had to get a job (one I still have ), so that kind of cut my reading short. Right now, I'm in the middle of To Kill a Mockingbird, Lost Boys, and have held The Catcher in the Rye on hiatus until I finish the others.
So, if reading a lot is the best advice, then I'm ready.
Yes, DB, bowling is a good sport, but is so frustrating. I'm still reaching for my first 600 series.
Speaking of To Kill a Mockingbird, this book seems like something that could have been written in the middle to late 19th century. The exploration of characters, the human shortcomings and heroisms that are elegantly described, and the old style of prose all give it an aged feel, in a good way.
I'm just a few chapters in to it, but I'm already falling for characters in a way that I haven't since the first time I read Ender's Game. I think the fact that children are main characters in both is a coincidence, though.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Congratulations on your acceptance. You'll do great -- I was already under the impression that you were older than you must be.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I'm 22, and will be starting my junior year at 23. When I think about that, I realize that it will be weird for me to be one of the oldest dorm residents on campus. Being with some of the other students will be like being back in the same room with my brothers, but unsupervised. I don't look forward to being around adolescent adults.
What I think more about is quitting my job. The job I have now is something I took as temp work to have gas and food money for Community College. I had the chance to get a regular, full-time position when someone else was fired, so I took it. It allowed me to move out on my own when I was 19. I don't regret doing what I did because I have really matured since then, but I always told myself that if I had the chance to start all over again and go back to school, full-time, and get an English Degree, I would take it. It happened.
There will be a lot to lose when I quit, too. I have very good benefits and good coworkers and managers. The pay isn't what I like, but whose pay is? I live on it.
I still hate the work. I don't want to sound like an arrogant teenager, but I can do better. I do not want to be stuck packing boxes and later become a middle manager, which is what my prospects were until a few months ago. Some people like the stability of being in the same job for 30 or 40 years, but I don't. It would drive me insane. I need intellectual stimulation and challenges in work. I am ready to give up stable mediocrity for a few years of turbulence if it can make my life better.
I don't know what I'm going to do after I graduate. I'm not taking English as a training course for a corporation. I'm doing it because I need to. My dream is to become an author, but I know in the time between success, should it come, and graduation, I will need something to do for money. I don't know where or how to look for a job that will suit me. I hope that college will allow me to explore that.
I apologize for the narcissism. I guess I needed to let go of some things and speak to people, even though the keyboard is my mouth.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Good luck and congratulations. I loved being an English major and I miss taking undergrad English classes. Yeah, I had to listen to a lot of people blathering on and on, but I also got to listen to a lot of people's really cool ideas.
Sigh. Now I'm nostalgic.
Oh...and you should expect to write lots and lots of papers. Posts: 834 | Registered: Jun 2005
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My best and favorite classes were ones where I had to write a lot. It is such a joy putting the right words together, even if I am just writing a message on a yellow sticky note.
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I hate to be the spoilsport, but I feel the need to note, as an English major and an aspiring writer, that majoring in English is not a good way to hone your craft, and that it can, in fact, do substantial damage to your craft.
There are plenty of good reasons to major in English--don't get me wrong. I just don't believe wanting to be a writer is one of them.
posted
I'm not trying to become a better writer by taking English. These have always been seperate pursuits. I love the english language and a college setting is how I want to learn more of what I can about it.
I am afraid of letting academic theories of writing inhibit me, but I think I can handle it.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002
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The advice I give to any freshman English majors is to read Edith Hamilton's "Mythology"--because every author in the English language for hundreds of years knew all these myths, and referred to them.
It's also a good idea, since you've been out of school mode for a while, to find out what style manual is used for freshman comp (I'm talking MLA, APA, etc.) buy it, and glance through. You'd be shocked how many freshmen English majors have no idea how to cite a source, yet think they are ready to jump right in to the harder classes.
Posts: 368 | Registered: Dec 2005
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You'd be surprised how many senior English majors don't know how to properly site a source *raises hand sheepishly*
Be prepared to get your butt worked off, especially once you get higher up in the major. I came from a completely technical background, and was a computer/electronics major for two years before I started. The biggest secret to success as an English major is communication and involvement with your teachers. You need to learn exactly what they expect and deliver. I never really did that, and kinda did my own thing. Luckily, I was really good at doing my own thing, so I squeaked by with a B average in my English classes. If the college you're going to is anything like mine, each teacher is going to expect different things. I turned in the same paper to two different professors once (after getting permission to do this, of course). One teacher gave an A, the other gave a C. The latter because I failed to re-work the paper for a technical writing class :S
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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Yeah, I'm a junior in English right now and I STILL screw up citations, even if I have the stupid MLA handbook right next to me. It's as if my brain doesn't make the connection.
quote:biggest secret to success as an English major is communication and involvement with your teachers. You need to learn exactly what they expect and deliver.
I would absolutely, positively agree with this. If a professor offers to let you turn in a draft before a paper is due and give you feeback, take him/her up on it. It's scary, not much fun to sit in their office one on one and listen to them bash your paper, but every time I've taken that step I've learned, like Boris said, about what the professor wanted and I've always gotten an A on every paper I had the prof review in draft form.
A nice professor will even catch those citation errors for you and tell you what they are so you can fix them before you turn it in.
quote:I turned in the same paper to two different professors once (after getting permission to do this, of course).
I'm shocked you got permission to do this, frankly. My school calls that a form of plagiarism. I wondered about that, but it's apparently not something tolerated at my university.
One other thing you can do to prepare is be familiar with the library and how to access resources. You should be well versed in how to find things both on the shelves and through the searching of online databases. To be honest, I use the onine databases more and do much of my research from home, but there are times when you'll be assigned something that requires you know your way around a library. One of my profs insisted we use a particular Shakespearean concordance that is only available in bound form, for example.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Be prepared to love or hate guys like Foucault. I love reading, absolutely adore it, but trying to make my way through post-structuralist critique was like this: , only more painful.
My suggestion to you would be to take an intro to linguistics class if you can. I have never regretted learning some of the fundamentals of how language works. It was eye-opening, and helped me to write better.
Along with this, I would HIGHLY recommend taking a second language. This is my personal bias here, but the people I know who took even a single year of Latin have a FAR stronger grasp of language and grammar than even graduate English students. It's painful and sad to have a paper marked by an English TA come back with complaints about passive sentences - when there are none on the page. I'm sure there are other ways to get to know the ins and outs of grammar, but it's proven a remarkably effective way to me and to everyone I know who's taken Latin.
I've also learned that Strunk and White are not gods, that Orwell's essay is full of bad advice, and that sometimes I have to play by their rules anyway because the marker is cranky.
I've applied to a PhD English program, and I'm not looking forward to the first year of it, if I get in, which is full of theory. And Post-structuralists. I HATE post-structuralism.
Posts: 2849 | Registered: Feb 2002
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I can not emphasise taking a class on the structure of the English language or a dead language nearly enough. Or better yet, take both. I edit papers for people and I weep when I read English students' papers, because so often the grammar is atrocious! Furthermore, when I bring it to their attention (details such as possesives with an apostrophe, its and it's, loose and lose), I am greeted with such apathy because grammar doesn't really matter anyway. You can not begin to break the rules until you know what they are and how they may be broken and still make sense. *mutters about drawn out phrases where the writer has used participles and forgotten that there isn't a predicating verb before writing the full stop*
Posts: 1158 | Registered: Feb 2004
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heya Reader, I graduated with an English Lit major in May, and here's my advice [which is actually quite different from everyone else's]:
Don't read anything except light fiction now... Harry Potter is a good choice. The reason is this, when you start taking your English classes, you'll be reading a lot of really heavy texts that require a lot of thinking, so what you want to do now, is just get used to reading at a relatively fast pace.
I was reading 27-30 books a semester for my english classes [most of them several times], and I really enjoyed _not_ reading when classes werent on. But, during the summers, if I knew the reading lists for my classes, I'd start reading the books early [and in moderation] and take notes. that way I'd only have to read 20 books during the semester.
There really arent any pre-reqs to doing and English Lit major... just keep your mind open, maybe look through a grammar book if you havent recently... a lot of American students in college have very poor grammar.
Posts: 142 | Registered: Feb 2006
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I was an English major, and I'm in the last semester of getting my masters in English.
I also wasn't really sure what I wanted to do with my life when I started, and thought I would use the time to figure it out. Well, I didn't. There was just a lot that I didn't know about and a lot I didn't even explore. My advice to you is to get career counseling. I'm talking about taking the career tests AND talking to a counselor. I fell into English because I just didn't realize what vast possibilities were out there for me.
You know all of those different jobs, besides teaching, editing, and journalism, they say you can get with an English degree? Well, technically it's true. But most of the jobs are ones you could get with ANY degree. And they're not exactly well paid. If I sound bitter, it's because I am. I'm especially upset with myself that I didn't really explore my option when I was in college. I think I would have done something completely different.
If you like to read, that's not a good enough reason to be an English major, in my opinion. Read books if you like to read. Take something in college that will get you a good job that you enjoy. You'll always be able to read on your own time.
Not that I think it's exactly bad to major in English, I just think it's bad not to have a good reason to major in English. And a good reason would be some sort of plan, even if you change it later. I would feel the same about any major, I just think it's especially true with English.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Wow, I should have checked the thread yesterday, before it got to be overwhelming.
Originally posted by Hank:
quote:The advice I give to any freshman English majors is to read Edith Hamilton's "Mythology"--because every author in the English language for hundreds of years knew all these myths, and referred to them.
It's also a good idea, since you've been out of school mode for a while, to find out what style manual is used for freshman comp (I'm talking MLA, APA, etc.) buy it, and glance through. You'd be shocked how many freshmen English majors have no idea how to cite a source, yet think they are ready to jump right in to the harder classes.
I'm not a freshman. I'm junior, but because I changed majors, it will almost be like that. I'll read "Mythology," and will be keeping a manual, probably MLA, on hand. I haven't been out for a while, either. I graduated from Comm. College in December, but that is a while in academic terms.
Originally posted by Eaquae Legit:
quote:Along with this, I would HIGHLY recommend taking a second language. This is my personal bias here, but the people I know who took even a single year of Latin have a FAR stronger grasp of language and grammar than even graduate English students. It's painful and sad to have a paper marked by an English TA come back with complaints about passive sentences - when there are none on the page. I'm sure there are other ways to get to know the ins and outs of grammar, but it's proven a remarkably effective way to me and to everyone I know who's taken Latin.
I've also learned that Strunk and White are not gods, that Orwell's essay is full of bad advice, and that sometimes I have to play by their rules anyway because the marker is cranky.
I want to learn Spanish and would like to learn Italian, but that may take too much of a toll on my time. I didn't like Strunk and White, either. I have read several of "Advice" and "Style" type books, and I thought they were all junk. Every author writes about how they learned to write, but doesn't give anything useful beyond "start early and write whenever possible." I knew that already!
Originally posted by ReikoDemosthenes
quote:I can not emphasise taking a class on the structure of the English language or a dead language nearly enough. Or better yet, take both. I edit papers for people and I weep when I read English students' papers, because so often the grammar is atrocious! Furthermore, when I bring it to their attention (details such as possesives with an apostrophe, its and it's, loose and lose), I am greeted with such apathy because grammar doesn't really matter anyway. You can not begin to break the rules until you know what they are and how they may be broken and still make sense. *mutters about drawn out phrases where the writer has used participles and forgotten that there isn't a predicating verb before writing the full stop*
No offense, but I learned the basic rules of grammar when I was a child, and had them mostly mastered by the time I was 13. Not that I'm bragging. I share the frustration and confusion, though. I don't understand how someone can go through life without knowledge of the basic rules.
Katarain, you have me thinking now. Right now, I know what I don't want to do, and that includes journalism, editing, and teaching. I will explore my options once I start this fall. As I said, I want to be a writer, majorly, but that won't be the only thing. I'll be taking a career exam and will speak to a counseler. I might get an internship, but I hear they don't pay well. If that is the case, then I would rather have a work-study job so I can have money, which I'll need for comestibles.
I do have a good reason for taking English: I want to learn about it. I always have. I think what I learn will help me with so much in life.
I don't have a plan for my life, which I recently realized. That thought scared me. I still don't have a plan. I don't mean until I'm 80, I just mean for the next five years or so. I know that if I don't get it together, I will graduate and be lost. I better get it together soon, because time doesn't stop.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002
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I just remembered my Plan for Life. I forgot it for a moment because I was hungry and thinking about my bowling league, which I have to leave for in literally minutes.
I'm going to get a regular job for a few years so I can build good credit, make good investments, and open a bowling alley in the small town I live in, which desperately needs some place for teenagers to go.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote: quote: Yeah, I had to listen to a lot of people blathering on and on, but I also got to listen to a lot of people's really cool ideas.
quote: This sentence could easily describe the time in my life when I smoked pot.
Yah, being an English major is really cool.
Seriously though...don't NOT do something in college because you're worried about your future job. College is your chance to learn something purely because you're interested. I don't *use* my East Asian studies major or my Japanese language, except as a cool party trick. This disturbs my mother, who is a very results and money oriented person. But I loved those classes & they were valuable to me far beyond their monetary value.
Oh, and more advice...if you take a lot of poetry classes your novel reading load will be lots lighter. I think technically I was a poetry major instead of an English major. (Speaking of things that bothered my mom... )
Posts: 834 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Yes! I love poetry classes. Maybe because I just love poetry. In the May term I'm taking a class called, I kid you not, "Lyric and Shorter Poetry" The reason for that is the May term is only three weeks long, you go every day, M-F and the work we're studying has to be short, quick reads in order for us to cover a large enough body of work for an equivalent 400-level English class.
It's taught by one of my favorite teachers, too, I have her for a survey of American lit class and really like her. Should be fun. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:College is your chance to learn something purely because you're interested.
That's what your electives are for, or, at most, the first two years. Explore what you like and see what is out there. But, if you LIKE something, then figure out how to make THAT your future job. I'm not saying that you have to major in something you hate just so you can make money. That would be just as foolish as not taking steps to develop a plan.
I'll use myself as an example. I had a lot in common with Reader when I started college. I, too, loved books, reading, literature, and writing. I had had an English teacher in high school who thought I'd make a good English teacher, and that was inspiring to me. So, that's what I did. I was an English major and I did very well. I also took all of the education classes I needed to teach high school. But all throughout school, I wasn't *quite* sure that I wanted to be an English teacher. After a long time, I realized that what really fascinated me was words--the very science of language. If I had realized this years before, and if I had realized what was possible for me, I would have gone into cultural anthropology, studying languages across the world. This fascinates me, and would have been a good career. And that was only one option. I am interested in so many things. My point is, I didn't realize that there was more opportunity than the careers that I grew up being exposed to. I mean, I knew that such careers were out there, but I didn't realize that they were for *me*, too. I thought they were too glamorous. Well, why?
I guess it comes down to this... if you love to write, you'll write. There's nothing in the English degree that will help you sell more books. Well, I suppose for a small percentage of people, there is, but I wouldn't count on it. If you love to read, you'll read. If you want to learn about literature, you will. There's nothing stopping you, and you don't have to pay other people thousands of dollars to do it. What's your backup plan in case you don't make it as an author? Or if you decide that you don't want to write after all? What can you use about what you love to make a living for yourself? Financially and emotionally?
I know I don't have all of the answers, and it might sound like I'm unfairly down on the concept of going to college solely for personal enrichment. I think that's an important part of college, too. After all, if you don't explore what's out there, how do you really know what you like? But it shouldn't stop there. By the time you finish your higher education, it should have brought you to someplace--a good starting place for the rest of your life. Otherwise, what will you do? How will you pay the bills? Will you do something you hate? Or will you do something you love?
You can be romantic all day long about learning and the pursuit of knowledge, but at the end of the day, we live in the real world, and it's an expensive life. It's good to keep an eye on that.
So, I'm not saying that you have to listen to me, what I am saying is that you have to ask yourself these questions. I serve as a warning to those who come after me. Don't end up like me.
(And it's not like I have a horrible life. It's true that after all, teaching is in my blood. I dream about it, I think about lesson plans, and ways to set up my classroom, and how to deal with problems. I'm probably going back to it after I graduate, and a large part of me is looking forward to it. It's not the career I would choose for myself if I could start all over, but it is a good career. What I'm really sad about is that there aren't that many other options for me with an English degree unless I want to start all over and work my way up in a career, like editing. I literally can't afford to do that.)
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Katarain, I couldn't disagree with you more.
I think the best writers, are the most widely read ones. Not because you have to borrow, but because you have to build on what's already there. There's no point starting from zero when we already have almost two thousand years of english writing tradition [read Blake or Eliot or Woolfe's essays on writing].
Secondly, I think an English Lit major is extremely helpful irrespective of the career you choose. I work in product management in a startup company, and while English Lit didnt teach me the "tricks of the trade", it gave me a great perspective on life, on philosophy, on other people, and taught me to be open minded and be able to consider ideas that diametrically opposite to mine.
In my class 'Principles of Literary Study' we covered different schools of interpretation. Having only one primary text, our professor would first sell us on a school [let's say structuralist / new critical], and when we were completely convinced, sell us on another [let's say post-structuralist / historical]. Even though my grades werent the best [I was generally a B to B+ student in English], I think I took home a lot more than most in the sheer learning experience.
Since graduating, I've had a myriad of responsibilities, and I've come across many leaders in IT firms who studied English and all affirm that their education gave them a good perspective on life, and an excellent starting place.
Posts: 142 | Registered: Feb 2006
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I don't think I said that there's no use in an English major. But you should have an idea of where you're going afterwards. All of what you said about learning about life, philosophy, other people, and being open-minded, etc. is true. And that is great that your degree has helped you be successfull in your job and that it's helped others that you know.
That's really not my point. Sure, you're a better person now, but what if you graduated from college and realized that no, you don't want to teach, or edit, or go into business where your communication skills would be oh so valuable?
I would venture that you could have gotten your job if you had majored in practically anything. Having that English degree probably didn't *get* you that job. And if that's the kind of job that you want out of life, then GREAT! Major in English.
And I totally disagree that you have to be an English major to read what's out there. You can read it on your own. You don't HAVE to read it just because it's assigned. You can KNOW it on your own. I never said anything about starting out from zero.
I used to say and truly believe the things you say about how wonderful it is to be an English major, and in a way, I still believe them. But I'm saying that's NOT the point. You still have to put food on the table, and just because someone likes reading literature doesn't necessarily mean they would actually be *interested* in the careers that an English degree would help them get into.
Again, a degree in *almost* any of the arts gives people a good perspective in life, and probably most of the sciences, too.
The Reader can major in anything he wants, but he deserves to hear from both sides of the issue so that he can make his own decision. I wanted him to hear my side because I got sucked in by the sentimental argument of why to major in English, when it didn't fit what would have been my ultimate career aspirations--and all because I loved literature and writing. I could have read the literature on my own and majored in something more useful to what I would have wanted to be.
I wasn't saying English was bad for EVERYBODY, but it is common for students to major in it just because they like it, and then they end up with no direction and a bunch of wasted time.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Yes, I could be doing my job even if my degree was in computer science. But I'd argue that I wouldn't be doing it as well.
Because English gives you a great perspective and intellectual flexibility, I can fit into a bunch of positions within the start-up I work for. As a result, I've become the "go-to" guy for anything we don't have a specialist for [which is a lot].
On it not fitting your "ultimate career aspirations": well, any degree can do that for you not just English. Even a degree in medicine -if your "ultimate career aspiration" is to be a dancer- is not going to help you much.
I'm not recommending an English degree for a "job type it would help them get into" but to get a great perspective on life itself, and using it as a starting point.
I went to college, trying to do what you're suggesting... getting a degree that would put food on my plate: Math & Econ. But I realized that the food on the plate didnt come from the degree, but from what I did. So I switched to English, and made sure that I got a lot of experience in my career of choice:IT. I taught myself to program on the side, I got work experiance in project management on the side etc. This let me have an enjoyable college career, where I actually studied stuff I was interested in, and was also able to pursue a career I was interested in.
Rather than study stuff I didnt enjoy, and then get a resulting job that I enjoy even less.
Having no direction in life has little to do with an English Lit major, and a lot to do with a lack of foresight and adequate planning.
Posts: 142 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Having no direction in life has little to do with an English Lit major, and a lot to do with a lack of foresight and adequate planning.
That's what I'm saying! I just happen to think it's more common for someone majoring in English not to adequately plan than someone majoring in something like business or science. You adequately planned, so you were able to benefit from your degree. If, however, you're just taking English because you like lit. and you don't plan for real life, you'll probably end up disappointed and lost.
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There's only one thing to do to prepare for an English degree: Memorize the entire works for William Shakespeare.... IN REVERSE!
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve: There's only one thing to do to prepare for an English degree: Memorize the entire works for William Shakespeare.... IN REVERSE!
Aaah Shakespeare... let me count the ways i hate thee.. lol
my favorite english professor took a course called [something to the effect of] "Shakespeare sucks" in grad school. I wish we had the same class at our college... sadly, I sat through a semester of Shakespeare... 17 plays read, 5 or 6 watched.
Posts: 142 | Registered: Feb 2006
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I'm always at a loss when educated, well-read people say they hate Shakespeare. What's not to like?
The plays are hysterical...an no, not just the comedies. There are so many great little jokes hidden away, and if you're a student of language then how can you not love the way Shakespeare puns and plays with words?
I wish my major required more than the one course in Shakespeare. They do offer a course called "Shakespeare for English Teachers" which covers the Shakespearean plays on the Alabama High School curriculum - Julius Ceasar, Romeo & Juliet, Macbeth, and Hamlet - so maybe I'll get a chance to take it. This semester I'm taking a course which covers Henry IV part I, Henry V, Merry Wives of Windsor, Much Ado About Nothing, Lear, Othello, and Winter's Tale.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I adored my Shakespeare class, which was all about Shakespeare in performance. We studied, hm, maybe 10 plays, and we had to watch 3 different versions of each. Some suuuuuucked (BBC version of The Tempest, anyone?), but it was really neat to see the different interpretations from different actors and directors.
It influenced my Shakespeare instruction: We never never never read the play first. We WATCH it, then read it if we must, and PERFORM it. (I've had to fuss at some parents who think it's terrible for kids to watch movies in scnool. But I've always won. I'm sure to use words like "pedagogical" and "metacognitive" with those kinds of parents. )
Katarain, I hear what you're saying. I know my opinions on how to "do" your undergrad experience are colored by my experience of doing what I was interested in and then stumbling into a job I love.
I also think that the value of an English major is not so much the reading as the discussion. As you said, the books are out there--but I don't have a little professor-in-a-box to carry around with me. Or the other students, for that matter.
Posts: 834 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Having no direction in life has little to do with an English Lit major, and a lot to do with a lack of foresight and adequate planning.
That's what I'm saying! I just happen to think it's more common for someone majoring in English not to adequately plan than someone majoring in something like business or science. You adequately planned, so you were able to benefit from your degree. If, however, you're just taking English because you like lit. and you don't plan for real life, you'll probably end up disappointed and lost.
aaah... i understand now... thanks for the clarification.
shakespeare still sucks though... because he stole ideas from people all the time. eh... but mostly because i prefer Stoppard, Eliot, Shaw etc as playwrights... it's nothing specific that i have against billy shakes... i just prefer modernist /pomo fiction :)
Posts: 142 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Belle: I'm always at a loss when educated, well-read people say they hate Shakespeare. What's not to like?
The plays are hysterical...an no, not just the comedies. There are so many great little jokes hidden away, and if you're a student of language then how can you not love the way Shakespeare puns and plays with words?
Agreed. I loved the Shakespeare class I took in college, and would have taken another but it kept conflicting with classes I needed.
As for "stealing" -- every author does this, consciously or otherwise.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Not only that, but Shakespeare was writing during a time without copyright laws. Yes, his plots are lifted straight from the Chronicle Histories, but this was not unusual nor illegal or even unethical at the time. And playwriting was, in general, a collaborative activity.
We should not judge Shakespeare by 21st rules of copyright and intellectual property.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I am taking English because I want the chance to learn about its history, greatest works, and intimate structure. I am also taking English because I believe that the experience and knowledge I gain will help me through my life. I may have said this before.
Abhi and Kat, I'm sorry I opened this fault, but I think you're both right. I'm afraid I'll be disappointed and lost because I haven't adequately prepared for my life. I can see how this might be true for most English majors. This is why I am going back to college. I think the whole experience will help me mature. It isn't just about the classes. It's also the social life and organizations that I will join, the things I missed in Community College.
As for a career, I can see myself as a publisher. I think that would be something I would like.
I read a summarized version of Romeo and Juliet a long time ago, and I liked it. The Age of Shakespeare is a required course where I will be going.
Now that I'm thinking about it, where can I find a good career test online? And should I take several?
Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002
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I don't particularly like Shakespeare. I don't get any of the jokes, and most of the time I just want to shake the characters (Othello, Othello needs a good shaking), and I don't feel anything when I read them.
*shrugs* I think I might just have bad taste, I read Octavia Butler books and the overwhelming emotion I feel on finishing them is boredom.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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You don't have bad taste, necessarily, blacwolve, you just have different taste than a lot of us. Nothing wrong with that.
If you didn't get a lot of the jokes, then you need a really good edition of Shakepeare that's excellently footnoted. Some of them are a bit obscure. It helps to have a group studying it with you and you can take turns reading things aloud. Also you don't need to be too squeamish, many of the jokes are sexual innuendos.
To get the most out of Shakespeare requires an investment, you need to get a handle not only on the language but Renaissance ideas of the social standing and the body and women in order to get a lot of the jokes. Many people don't want to make that kind of investment, and that's fine. Most people have no need to. English majors, however, are people who should make that effort with regards to Shakespeare.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:I turned in the same paper to two different professors once (after getting permission to do this, of course).
I'm shocked you got permission to do this, frankly. My school calls that a form of plagiarism. I wondered about that, but it's apparently not something tolerated at my university. [/QB]
Well, my school allowed students in the core-requiremnt English Composition 101 to write a paper for another class as a part of that class. The idea was to drill the new student on proper form for papers. Many of the students in that class would not have been English majors, though, and those that were would, most likely, not have been allowed into the upper-level classes without this requirement completed. Since I tested out of it, I had to learn propper form while writing an upper-level course paper, whixh kind of sucked. I had proper form for everything except the Bibliography page, which I had to re-write twice (I think) never having a clear ide of what I had done wrong in the first place.
Don'y judge me by this post, please. I don't have my glasses with me so the screen is fuzzy.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Honestly, what is so great about Shakespeare? He stole his stories, his characters, most of the plays are pretty predictable. He made plenty of mistakes [Rosalind vs Ganymede anyone?] I think a lot of the modern playwrights are much better...
I get a lot of the so-called jokes in Shakespeare, but it just seems so repetitive. Additionally, he never really took a stance on anything. As far as we can tell, he was an apolitical person with no significant opinion on anything.
Also the process of reading the text and then laughing at the footnotes doesn't appeal to me personally...
Posts: 142 | Registered: Feb 2006
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I get a lot of the so-called jokes in Shakespeare, but it just seems so repetitive. Additionally, he never really took a stance on anything. As far as we can tell, he was an apolitical person with no significant opinion on anything.
I didn't realize being political was a prerequisite for being a great writer.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Also the process of reading the text and then laughing at the footnotes doesn't appeal to me personally...
The footnotes should only be a help. I personally think by the time someone reads their third Shakespearean play they really don't need the notes nearly as much. I find that most of the laugh-out-loud moments I have reading Shakespeare don't require any footnote help.
To each his own, of course. Frankly, I don't care for modern playwrights. In fact, I'd be perfectly happy never to study literature beyond the 18th century, with the exception of modern poetry.
quote:I get a lot of the so-called jokes in Shakespeare, but it just seems so repetitive. Additionally, he never really took a stance on anything. As far as we can tell, he was an apolitical person with no significant opinion on anything.
Again, don't assume Shakespeare was writing in the same climate we can today. There was no such thing as freedom of speech, and if you got too political, you could find yourself censored or worse. This was the Renaissance, not 21st century society.
As for mistakes he may have made, keep in mind this was before copyright. Many of his plays were revised after his death. We really have no idea if what we have from the quartos and folios is completely accurate and any reading of the quartos and folios will show you there isn't total consistency between them, anyway. What we read in a modern textbook is the result of editorial decisions. We can't even be certain that everything we call Shakespearean was in fact written by Shakespeare.
But that's okay - I mean, unless you're a scholar interested in those things, it doesn't matter so much to the average reader of today. I love and enjoy them for what they are and don't stress too much about those details. Yes, the occasional crux gives critics plenty to speculate and write about...but most people can just shrug and move on and get back to appreciating the plays.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Seriously though...don't NOT do something in college because you're worried about your future job. College is your chance to learn something purely because you're interested. I don't *use* my East Asian studies major or my Japanese language, except as a cool party trick. This disturbs my mother, who is a very results and money oriented person. But I loved those classes & they were valuable to me far beyond their monetary value.
I started off college as an English major. I wanted to write, or atleast work in publishing. During a freshman literature/history class, I discovered I was more interested in discussing ideas rather than literary theory. I took a class on Jung and began to think about how psychology and then philosophy developed my ability to create plots and design complex, believable characters. So I'm graduating in May with a BA in Liberal Arts (Humanities and Social Thought) with a minor in Philosophy.
I've recently been debating the idea of running/owning a bookstore one day. So I'm going to get a basic staff job at the local bookstore and if I like it, start taking night business classes. Or maybe I won't like it and I'll go look at publishing internships instead. I don't worry too much. Hopefully, I'll have enough time after work to write and get published by local groups.
While out at breakfast the other day, I was running my plans past my dad. My dad is a higher-up with an oil company. He thinks I'll be fine and I could tell he wasn't just saying that because I was his daughter.
One of his major duties is hiring new people. He had countless stories of people who came in looking to pay the bills. They were sociology majors, medical majors, theatre majors...everything! Many of them stayed despite never planning on being in business and are in comfortable and happy careers.
As for Shakespeare, I was once a member of the "I Hate Shakespeare" Club. I paid dues, I had the button, etc. Then last year I realized I needed an extra 4000-level class and decided to take an English class with one of my favorite professors. The subject was specifically: Shakespeare's Tragedies.
It was a small group. Five students, one auditor, and our professor. We read six plays outloud stopping to discuss confusing lines or meanings. Reading Shakespeare casually must work for some people, but I loved the group discussion. I loved honing in on one section and just ripping it apart and trying to extract all of Shakespeare's subtleties. I've always connected with the play Hamlet on some level but it was so much fun to really look at the psychology and debating what overall message Shakespeare was trying to get across. Not to mention that some of the language is just plain gorgeous.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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How much of our modern style of storytelling is based on Shakespeare? What I have read of Shakespeare looks very much like what has been written from the 18th century to the present, except for certain word uses. It seems to me that his influence is responsible for much of our plays, literature, and movies. Maybe I haven't read enough Shakespeare to see something different.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002
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), so that kind of cut my reading short. Right now, I'm in the middle of To Kill a Mockingbird, Lost Boys, and have held The Catcher in the Rye on hiatus until I finish the others.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
You'll do great -- I was already under the impression that you were older than you must be.
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, only more painful. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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