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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » HPMF = Florence's Mirembe School (Page 7)

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Author Topic: HPMF = Florence's Mirembe School
Tatiana
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I've started reading this blog lately, in which kiva fellows, people who volunteer a year of their time to spending time in the field working with kiva's microfinance partners, post their experiences. It's really amazing. I can't say enough how astonishing and engaging it is. I feel so much more a citizen of the world from reading some of these posts. I feel like I'm there.

Check it out! I think you'll enjoy it.

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Tatiana
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Now that we get repayments posted almost daily, our kiva credit account keeps having money in it. And because everyone else's does too, there have been days and weeks when there were few loans on the board from which to choose. That's a great thing because it means everyone who is trying to borrow is getting funding, but it makes it harder to find someone good to lend to.

I finally found a good borrower for $100 that has been sitting idle in our account. Today I made a loan of $100 to Seblatou Adossou of Danyi, Togo, to help him increase his area of farmable land. It's a 12 month loan with a four star partner. Because it's growing more food, I think it will be very important in this time of worldwide food shortages. I'm glad this loan was available to us.

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Tatiana
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Our kiva credits continue to grow as our loans are repaid. I'm still accepting contributions to the "jatraqueros" account, for anyone who prefers to do it that way. Our anonymous regular lender likes to contribute in that way, so the account will remain open for her, and for anyone else who would rather let someone else handle the kiva transactions. Of course, I'll continue to reinvest all the funds in the account as they are repaid.

But now that kiva has support for team lending, and we have our cool jatraqueros lending team that anyone can join, I expect most people will want to keep their own accounts and just assign their loans to our team. That way everyone can choose their favorite entrepreneurs to loan to, and retains ultimate control of their funds. I think that is even cooler! You can view our team page, see a list of our loans, browse the member list, or write a team message. Please join the team so you can see what we're doing, even if you can't make a loan at the moment. And if you'd like to loan in less than $25 increments, you can still paypal the money to our team account and get in on the action that way for whatever amount you'd like to contribute.

We're still experiencing record traffic on the kiva site, so it's hard to find good loans lately, though it's starting to get easier. Today we loaned $125 to Un Ran in Cambodia to help her grow rice. Global hunger is on the rise, so the more rice grown the better. [Smile] It's a five star MFI, and the loan term is 18 months.

[ October 23, 2008, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: Tatiana ]

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Strider
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Tatiana, do you ever donate some of our money to Kiva for operating expenses? I'd be fine with some of our jatraqueros fund being used for that as well, I don't know if that's something you'd want to check with the rest of the donors first though, or just make an executive decision. Up to you!
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Tatiana
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When I first put "new money" into the system, I usually donate 10% above what we loan. But when we reloan funds that have been paid back, I generally don't pay that 10% over again. I feel that if we did that it would dilute the building power of our fund. kiva lately has won awards from American Express, and gotten grants from other sources. They also have a source of income in the interest they earn on the funds they're holding at various points in the process, though that's much less now that they return partially paid loan funds.

I know that they need funds to operate, and yet, I'm feeling lately as though they have come far enough to get those funds mostly from other sources. I'm not sure how well they're doing but they do seem to be getting by. I do still feel they need occasional infusions, but I use my own funds for those. Any money contributed to the fund by the group goes 100% toward fulfilling loans to entrepreneurs.

However, any time a member feels like I should do something differently, I'm glad to comply if the other members agree. Right now we have $20.89 in kiva credit. That will increase day by day as loan payments are posted. If anyone wants me to donate part or all of that to kiva, let me know.

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Tatiana
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Today there are hundreds of loans up on the board, which is a good thing, because we have choices. Here are my priorities for picking.

1. Must be a four star or five star microfinance field partner. Lately one of the big partners, MIFEX in Ecuador, went belly up and something like $250k in loans defaulted. We didn't lose anything in our jatraqueros portfolio, luckily. But it was very disappointing. And though it's a small percentage of kiva's loans (perhaps 1% or 2%), it's upset everyone a lot and caused me to rethink our strategy. Right now I don't want to invest more than one loan per MFI, to spread our risk. And I want to be careful which MFIs I choose.

Note: We have one loan of $100 to Ebony Foundation, which hasn't kept up with regular payments. As you know, there was a lot of violence and destruction in Kenya with the riots following the election this year. It's possible that the borrower lost her entire stand and all her goods in the riots. Or she may have had to leave the province, or even been killed. That one is at risk, I believe. We'll have to watch and see what happens.

2. The business has to be something worthwhile. Though there's nothing wrong with cosmetic sales or soft drink sales, I'd rather we use our hard-earned money to fund something that will bring more positive benefits to the area, such as general stores, food production and sales, transportation, etc. Agriculture in this time of food shortage is particularly favored. However, I'm reluctant to lend to pig farmers or dairy farmers, worthy as those professions may be, because I'm unsure how well the animals are treated, and I know that matters to many jatraqueros.

3. I try to spread the loans around to various countries in diverse regions of the word. Right now all the best agriculture loans are going to Cambodia and Peru, but we already have several of each so I'm holding off from those and looking for some in other countries.

4. Though I want to give males and females an equal chance, the low status of women in much of the developing world means they're overrepresented among the very poor. So for that reason, and because we're hoping to do our part to improve the status of women, we loan somewhat more to women than to men. However, because jatraqueros are equally male and female, I try to be sure our percentage of male borrowers is a good bit higher than that of kiva as a whole.

5. A bunch of little things, like if it's a single mom raising kids, or if the person is disabled, or has other difficulties, also can give a boost to a particular loan in my eyes.

If anyone has other criteria they think are important, please let me know. I want our choices to reflect not just me but the entire group.

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Tatiana
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For today, we loaned $150 to Moibatou Teagbanlin in Cotonou, Benin for her scrap metal business. Dealing in scrap metal is good for the environment, as it cleans up junk from neighborhoods, recycles products that would otherwise be wasted as rust, and generates an income stream for lots of people who collect it. Add to this the fact that Moibatou is a female in a male-dominated sector. She's working through a promising new MFI, and the loan term is 10 months.
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Strider
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that all sounds great to me!
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Tatiana
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Strider, thanks for the feedback!
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Tatiana
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Today I thought I'd introduce the group to some of our fellow lenders on kiva, people who are an inspiration to me.

Here's Claus Peter from Germany. He currently has 2400 loans.

There's also Good Dogg on Front Porch, who has about 6500 loans at the moment.

But it's not just about the number of loans. Diane of Diane and Charlie (not the former Prince and Princess of Wales) only [Wink] has a couple of thousand loans, but her impact is felt tremendously as she regularly participates in various projects that the kiva friends organize. She was instrumental in getting Regina her wheelchair, for instance, and routinely acts as the financial head of various projects, since she has free overseas money wiring privileges. She takes payment in kiva gift certificates, which she spends on more kiva loans to feed her addiction. [Smile]

There are some really wonderful people on kiva friends!

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Tatiana
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One more link for y'all. Here's a cool page where they've made a collage of recent borrowers, along with kiva statistics. I'm enjoying mousing over the various pictures and seeing the stories.
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Tatiana
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I want to congratulate all our members on joining team jatraqueros.

Kwea, also known as Rob, is a long time kiva fan and supporter. He was the very first to join team jatraqueros upon its creation.

Dragon, who alternately goes by the name of Jen, has been a faithful and devoted team member from the start of the fund almost two years ago. I think Dragon, like me, was raised on hatrack, since I remember her coming to gatherings when she was quite young. She was the second to jump on the jatraqueros bandwagon.

Fusiachi, who's otherwise known as Wade, was also an early joiner of the jatraqueros team when team lending became a feature of kiva earlier this year.

Strider, who's known on kiva as Gregory, joined next and has been one of the most active members.

Next comes our beloved Kama bot, who is affectionately known as kamila in her kiva instantiation. Programmed to be the cutest and most flirtatious software agent ever written, she also has excellent philanthropic subroutines, as evidenced by her kiva activity. Kudos to all the talented coders who brought us KAMA.

Our latest members to join are Nate and Denis. We hope to hear more from them and learn about their kiva experiences.

We have a total of 41 loans now in 22 countries since team lending was instituted on kiva. Plus the original group account, jatraqueros del mundo, has 23 loans and is still growing.

Congratulations to our team members and to all who have contributed throughout the months and years of our kiva presence. The hatrack community can be proud of fostering such a spirit of service and enterprise in attacking poverty at its root. Let it never be said that jatraqueros only can talk about the world's problems and never act. Projects like the annual seasonal charitable donation and team jatraqueros prove this isn't so.

In honor of hatrack's annual seasonal gift, I'm pausing activity on the original jatraqueros account for the month of December, as usual. Of course, kiva jatraqueros and team members with their own accounts will continue lending activities on their own schedules. And don't forget that kiva gift certificates are an option for that philanthropic person on your list who already has everything.

Thanks again, everyone, for all you do! Together we're eventually going to end poverty and help make sure every child born on earth has a warm safe and healthy welcome.

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Tatiana
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Hi jatraqueros del mundo,
We'd like to give you a repayment update on the loans you've made
through Kiva.

A total of $340.23 has been repaid this month! This means you now have a
total of $346.16 in Kiva Credit in your account.

Click here to re-lend, withdraw or donate these funds! Or you can show
your friends some Kiva Love with a Kiva gift certificate.
https://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=account

Below is the repayment update on your Kiva Portfolio:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zubaidah - in Indonesia (Activity: Food Production/Sales)
You Loaned:$125.00
Newly Repaid:$10.42
Total Repaid So Far:$104.17 (83.34% of your loan)
View loan profile at:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=34505
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Teófilo Ramón Peralta Ibarra in Nicaragua (Activity: Food Production/Sales)
You Loaned:$225.00
Newly Repaid:$16.07
Total Repaid So Far:$96.42 (42.85% of your loan)
View loan profile at:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=48618
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tzolojya Group in Guatemala (Activity: Clothing Sales)
You Loaned:$150.00
Newly Repaid:$23.01
Total Repaid So Far:$69.22 (46.15% of your loan)
View loan profile at:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=50815
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phorn Sok in Cambodia (Activity: Fruits & Vegetables)
You Loaned:$175.00
Newly Repaid:$14.58
Total Repaid So Far:$72.91 (41.66% of your loan)
View loan profile at:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=52964
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tep Moa in Cambodia (Activity: Farming)
You Loaned:$25.00
Newly Repaid:$1.39
Total Repaid So Far:$6.95 (27.80% of your loan)
View loan profile at:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=54010
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Claritas Group in Guatemala (Activity: Food)
You Loaned:$550.00
Newly Repaid:$84.50
Total Repaid So Far:$169.21 (30.77% of your loan)
View loan profile at:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=58467
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
San Roque Group in Bolivia (Activity: Traveling Sales)
You Loaned:$525.00
Newly Repaid:$174.98
Total Repaid So Far:$262.49 (50.00% of your loan)
View loan profile at:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=58473
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seblatou Adossou in Togo (Activity: Agriculture)
You Loaned:$100.00
Newly Repaid:$8.34
Total Repaid So Far:$25.00 (25.00% of your loan)
View loan profile at:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=63650
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Un Ran in Cambodia (Activity: Farming)
You Loaned:$125.00
Newly Repaid:$6.94
Total Repaid So Far:$6.94 (5.55% of your loan)
View loan profile at:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=70538

To view your Kiva loan portfolio go to:
https://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=account

Want to receive these updates more/less often? You can change the frequency at which you receive repayment updates under Kiva Email Preferences:
https://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=account&action=emailPreferences

The minimum lending amount is $25, but you can apply any amount of Kiva Credit to a purchase. To learn more about using your Kiva Credit to lend, click here:
http://www.kiva.org/about/help/questions?subtopic=Re-lending%20or%20Withdrawing

If you have any questions, you can find our Frequently Asked questions and our contact info at the Kiva Help Center: http://www.kiva.org/about/help .

Best wishes,
Kiva Staff

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Tatiana
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Okay, as you can see above, we got a bunch of repayments on our around the 15th of the month. I suggest we wait until about the first of the month to pick a loan, as there are a lot more available then the way things fall out with the new repayment system (known as P2 to kiva insiders).

The way the new repayment system works is that we get credited with partial repayments as soon as they hit kiva's bank account from the MFIs (microfinance institutions) in the field. If you remember, before we didn't get paid back until each loan was paid in full. Then we received the total loan amount. So the new system frees up a lot of capital for people to make new loans. Because of this, round about the 15th - 20th when everyone's payments hit their kiva accounts, all the available loans get snapped up by eager lenders flush with cash. Then they run out of cash and the loans that hit the site from around the 1st to the 14th just languish.

That's when I say we should make our move. Then we have leisure to pick just the loans we like. And even with the MFIs defaulting on us occasionally, and with our exacting selection criteria (loan must be used in a way that will generate more income, must be used for something wholesome and beneficial, mustn't involve usury, cruelty to animals, or destructive environmental activities, etc.), we'll still be able to find that one perfect loan that suits us to a T.

We did loan $75 to a business last week, just to get some of our liquidity into use. I'll write it up for the board next time. If you can't wait to see it, you can go to our profile and click on her there. The baby's expression is what hooked me, of course.

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Tatiana
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One of the lenders on kiva friends is in the habit of posting a good luck comment on his every loan's journal page. One time he got a reply from a borrower who was ecstatic to find that people from around the world were wishing her well and hoping for the success of her business. I thought that was such a cool thing for both the borrower and the lender that I've started doing the same thing. I'll pass along any replies we might get. In the meantime if any of you would like to send your encouragement and best wishes to our lenders, please do. I'm sure if they receive the message it will fill them with excitement and enthusiasm. Just follow the links to the pages for the individual loans, and at the bottom are all the journal entries (if any) along with a place to add your comments. Hopefully we will get an answer at some point as well, though not all the messages will make it through to our mostly remote borrowers with no internet. I think the fact that people care, though, makes even more difference to the businesspeople than the funds alone could possibly do. It makes them realize that, in the grand scheme of things, they really do matter. I get a great kick out of that thought.
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Strider
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That all sounds great Tatiana. It works out well, every time you post I'm reminded of the fact that I probably have some free money in my account!
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Tatiana
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I finally posted details for our two latest loans. See the first post for more information. I'm picking mostly farmers lately to help, mainly because I'm worried about the global food shortage. Anything we can do to get more crops into the ground could end up saving lives.
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Kama
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quote:
Ms. Ngov Savy looks remarkably young for her age!
I'm pretty sure that age must have been a typo [Wink]
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Tatiana
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Yeah, maybe 28 or even 18. [Smile] On the other hand, I knew a Japanese lady in her 60s who looked not much older than Ms. Savy. So who knows?
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Tatiana
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We have a new loan today. I'll post details later. Check lending team jatraqueros for information in the meantime. [Big Grin]

I think it's pretty cool that we have 63 loans now from our team, and the jatraqueros account has 26. From small beginnings come great things.

[ March 02, 2009, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: Tatiana ]

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Tatiana
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There's a new spreadsheet that one of the kiva friends made that gives you a fantastic view of your account. I'm trying to figure out how to make it available to everyone to download and look at. It's impressive. It shows all our loans, and then summarizes them and breaks them down in every way you can imagine.

Someone help me figure out the best way to post it. It's for windows excel. Should I just take a series of snapshots and post those? It would be a lot, like 25 or something. I'd much rather make the spreadsheet itself available to people. Do most people have Excel or something that can read Excel files? It's full of macros, though I don't think you need to run them again, once I've loaded the data from our account, and run the routines to do the analysis once. Is it possible to upload Excel files to somewhere like Photobucket for anyone to download? Somebody said something about making a Google document. Would that work? And if so, how would I do it?

[ March 18, 2009, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: Tatiana ]

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Tatiana
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I think I figured it out. Y'all tell me if this works. jatraqueros kiva account summary.
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Tatiana
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Click on the tabs at the bottom for "summary", "stats", "loans", and "future cash flow". Let me know if it works for you. [Smile]
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Tatiana
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I think this information is extremely cool. Now that we have it, we can use it to spread our portfolio risk evenly among the different MFIs, countries, sectors, etc. We can also monitor the outstanding loans for delinquent payback. It's got a whole lot of information in it that can be useful in many ways.
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Tatiana
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Because it's a lot of work to set up the spreadsheet, export the info from kiva into the spreadsheet, then convert it to a google document for online viewing, I won't do it again, at least not frequently, unless it seems that people really want to see it. Post or email to let me know if you want to see it. It has all the information to allow us to gloat over how much we've accomplished, [Smile] . Come to think of it, I'll probably do it from time to time just for my own enjoyment.

That said, let me introduce you to Mrs. Aminata Kassongue, an entrepreneur in Koutiala, Mali who sells condiments. This is one of a number of very attractive loans coming from Mali lately. It is only a six month term, so we get our money back quickly to loan to someone else. It's a 4 star MFI, and we share it with only one other lender, LaurentD of Brussels Belgium, who is truly a prodigious lender.

He's the superstar of European lenders on kiva. Check out his lender page. He currently has 7816 loans, and he often loans more than the minimum $25 per loan. On this loan, for instance, he chipped in $50 and we picked up the other $250. I'm glad for the chance to honor LaurentD for his abundant lending. =)

And we wish Mrs. Kassongue much success with her condiments stand. The wares look quite appealing in the picture. I wish I had some now.

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Tatiana
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By the way, our jatraqueros team has now loaned 81 loans, or an average of 9 loans per member, for a grand total of $3,650, in the time that we've been a team. This doesn't include the jatraqueros account from before team lending was possible. That one has 27 loans or a total of $5175, some of which are included in the 81 above, because since team lending began, I've assigned all our loans to the jatraqueros team. However you look at it, though, the total is quite impressive. [Smile]
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Tatiana
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I did two loans for May. The first one I just couldn't resist only had $25 left to fund so I went for it. It was to a girl named Juanita in Peru. It's only an 8 month loan and it's for fertilizers and labor wages for her farm. The second one was for $300 to a guy named Faress in Lebanon. We now have 29 loans and we're circulating about $2500 in our fund now. I'm just reloaning whatever money comes in, lately. I'm assuming everyone who wants to play is making their own accounts nowadays and joining team jatraqueros. So the rotating fund will keep rotating but there's rarely anything new added to it.
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Kwea
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I think that just the fact we have this is very cool, and thank you for keeping it going.
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Strider
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I love that Team Obama is the 3rd largest team on Kiva!

Tatiana, on the page that shows our statistics, i'm a bit confused. It says we have 95 total loans, and over $4000 loaned. That's the total loaned by the team and members of the team since the team has been together? so it includes individual loans, but not any that were pre team, correct?

also, thanks for the explanation above, i always wondered why we had a member named jatraqueros!

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Tatiana
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Yes, That's correct. They wouldn't let me add the past loans of the jatraqueros account (the account we had before teams existed) to our new team. So only loans going forward count toward the team totals. So that would be all the loans that any of the members choose to put toward the team.

I put most of my individual loans from my Tatiana account toward our team, with only a scattering toward the other teams that have recruited me, because I feel like this is my home team. And of course all the subsequent loans by the account named jatraqueros will go toward team jatraqueros. I'm just relending all funds that are repaid to that account now. There aren't any new funds going in, now that we have a team where we can each have our own accounts. Our regular anonymous donor has suspended new donations for now, as well. So I'm just continuing to cycle the fund back to new loans as the old loans are paid off.

As a side note, my personal account hit 200 loans recently. <celebrates> It says 199 but actually I made a mistake and picked the same loan twice. It took several weeks to be funded and I had forgotten about it by the time I chose it the second time. So kiva counts that as a single loan (quite properly), while I count it as two. [Smile]

I'm excited about hitting 200, but I'm very small potatoes compared to some of the kiva friends. The most prolific lender (Good Dogg) is about to pass 10,000 loans! And there are a few more who aren't far behind him. Laurent of Brussels and Claus-Peter from Germany are closing in. Diane R, bikeme, etc. all are in the multiple-thousands of loans so far. They're really hardcore! One kiva friend got the kiva symbol tattooed onto her ankle. I love it! =)

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Strider
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that's awesome. congrats on 200!
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Tatiana
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Thanks!

You know, one of the most important things kiva does has nothing at all to do with money. By connecting us and giving us a stake in each other's success across the world, kiva is helping to make the world into one big family. As a Latter-day saint, I feel this is an extremely important function. In no way is this official, but it's my feeling that all of our temples all over the world are primarily dedicated to achieving this same end. "If you aren't one, you aren't mine."

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Tatiana
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There's a controversy now on kiva that I think the team needs to know about. A few of the loans that kiva has listed involve cockfighting, or rather raising fighting cocks for sale. That upsets me quite a lot, and I hope kiva will decide not to list loans involving blood sports in the future. Cockfighting is something people do in rural areas here, too. It's pretty ugly, and involves the birds with razor blades attached to their feet fighting to the death while people bet and look on to enjoy the spectacle. To me, it's really beyond the pale.

kiva doesn't list loans for prostitution businesses, even in countries where it's legal. They draw a line and don't help drug traffickers get their businesses going. You know? The only question is where the line is drawn, and so far kiva has decided not to ban cockfighting loans from countries where the sport is legal.

So, I want to ask what you guys think about it? I hate even being associated at all with any organization that promotes cockfighting in any way. I want to know what y'all think, though. Especially those of you who have contributed to our fund.

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Strider
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quote:
I hate even being associated at all with any organization that promotes cockfighting in any way.
you summed it up. What can we do?
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Tatiana
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I'm not sure what we can do. Take our money elsewhere, if they don't change the policy? There's not another good person to person lending platform like kiva, though. There's donors choose, where you get to pick a small project to give to. Most that I've done there are for teachers in the U.S. wanting books for their kids.

That's a good thing, but I feel like kiva reaches the world's very poor far better, and also it's nice to be able to help more people by lending again and again the same funds.

There's microplace, which even earns interest on your loan, but it only shows representative borrowers of the Micro Finance Institution to which you're lending, so the person to person connection is lost entirely.

I'm open to ideas and possible responses to the problem.

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Kama
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I'd wait for kiva's official position before making any decisions.
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Strider
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i did a search on this and it apparently has been going on for over a year(found an article from 2/08). So unless recent articles will push this into the public spotlight a bit more, I think we know what Kiva's official position is.

I don't like the idea of taking our money elsewhere either, but I do think we should make our displeasure known, at least to start with.

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Kwea
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Just don't loan it to any of those places. We can control where OUR money goes, right? [Big Grin]
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Tatiana
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Kiva has made known that their official policy doesn't preclude blood sports that are legal in the target country. This might include dog fighting as well, someday, though as far as I know there have been no dogfighting loans yet on kiva.

Kwea, that's one answer that some kiva friends are following. I feel okay about doing that for off-license liquor stores, animals raised for slaughter, and such things. For some reason cockfighting just sticks in my craw. I feel that from me personally it requires more response. Like I don't even want to have anything to do with any organization that associates itself with that. But for the group account, I'll do whatever you guys decide.

Strider, here's what I've done to let them know how I feel. I posted on kiva friends forum that I'm taking my personal money out of kiva over this. (I just don't feel right about keeping it there.) And that I was consulting with the team to decide what to do about the team account. Kiva officers all interact with us on that forum.

I'll also write to contactus@kiva.org and say the same thing. I'll send a message to the kiva friends -- kiva liaison, Diane R, that it's a big problem for me, and I encourage those of you who are concerned to do the same.

[ May 12, 2009, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: Tatiana ]

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Tatiana
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I'm opening the voting.

1) Keep on lending, but avoid loans for businesses associated with blood sports.

2) Remove the fund from kiva and put it in another charity.

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aiua
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I just joined Kiva a few days ago, though on my university's team. Even if I had known about the cock fighting, I still would have joined. All that means is I look a little more closely at where I'm making my loans. As it stands now, my three have charcoal, tailoring, and concessions businesses.
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Katarain
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Mind you, I'm not a contributor, so I'm not going to vote...but it seems to me that your loans are going to support the individuals who you fund, not the Kiva organization. Withholding money is withholding money from them, not from Kiva, as it would be for a conventional charity. Just avoid the businesses involved in bloodsport and fund the other ones. Why punish the non-bloodsport businesses?

It doesn't seem to make sense to have this be the deciding factor. You're not going to donate to non-bloodsport businesses because it is possible to donate to bloodsport businesses using the same medium? That kind of sounds like you're not going to donate to a charity using PayPal because someone else could use PayPal to pay a terrorist organization or something like it.

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aspectre
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If PayPal made it a policy to transfer funds to terrorist organizations, the governments would shut 'em down.

And forgetting the blood sport aspect entirely, the kiva is funding household terrorism. We ain't talkin' about a high-class audience here: the profits from cockfighting has always been from giving folks an excuse to gamble and get drunk.
And guess whose wife gets beaten and children get deprived cuz some drunkard wants to steal her money to fund his addictions.
Every kiva cent spent to support cockfighting is probably depriving poor families of several hundred times more in necessities.

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Strider
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i'm voting 1 for now. while i'm upset, i still believe in their mission and I'm not ready to abandon it.
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Kama
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I see nothing wrong with gambling or getting drunk in general.
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Kwea
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apsectre, people use money for food too, and kill for it. Why don't we kill anyone holding food and prevent that problem too?


[Roll Eyes]


I vote just to loan to people doing those businesses, the whole POINT of kiva is being able to control your cash and where it goes to maximize the type of impact you want to have(not to fund terrorism, despite aspecte's "eloquent" examples) on a community.

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Strider
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quote:
I see nothing wrong with gambling or getting drunk in general.
my problem isn't gambling or getting drunk, it's the chicken fighting.
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Kama
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yes, mine too.
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Kwea
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same here
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Tatiana
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Sounds like we have a consensus. We'll keep the money in the jatraqueros account rotating with kiva loans that don't support bloodsports. Thanks for your votes, guys.

I'm taking the money in my Tatiana account out as it pays off, and I think I'm going to start looking at microplace. I'll let you know how it looks over there. Right now they loan on the MFI level only, but are looking at the possibility of going person-to-person at some point.

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