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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » FSU proposes major program cuts

   
Author Topic: FSU proposes major program cuts
Dr Strangelove
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Here's the newspaper article

Here's the proposal draft

To summarize, because of the Florida legislature slashing the education budget, the FSU administration is proposing cutting 21 degree programs. Not reducing, not merging - completely eliminating. Here's the full list in case those links don't work:

Anthropology
Apparel Design
Geophysical Fluid Dynamics
Geological Sciences
Molecular Biophysics
Oceanography
Hospitality & Golf Management
Physical Education
Science Education (College of Education)
Geography
Behavioral Psychology
Software Engineering
Art Education
Ceramics
Sculpture
Studio Art
Recreational Management
German
Slavic Languages
Demography
Art Administration

As well, programs such as Religion, Philosophy, and Economics are looking to be reduced/merged. Oh, we'll be "mothballing" the entire satellite campus in Panama City by January 2010, among other things.

The stimulus money would be used to get those already in the targeted programs through with their degrees, but after that ... [Angst]

Granted, this is just the rough proposal. There will be another one from the Faculty Senate, and then it all does depend on what the legislature does with the budget, but still ... This is pretty huge. At least History isn't being touched.

This is creating quite the stir here in Tallahassee. All around campus people are walking with a sort of shell-shocked look. Are other universities going through similar things?

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rivka
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How were these programs selected? Are there related programs in any cases that a student could select instead? Are these popular programs?
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King of Men
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I must admit that I won't shed tears for "Hospitality & Golf Management".
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scholarette
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When I was an undergrad, they cut a very specialized program that was actually a neat program. But the thing was, it cost more then any other degree option and the students paid the same tuition. And the difference was huge- like 10:1. While it was unfortunate that the program was cut, it was the cut that hurt overall the least.
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Dr Strangelove
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I'm not sure how they're selected at all. That seems to be the question on everyones mind actually. Some, like Hospitality and Oceanography, are quite well respected and popular programs. I believe Hospitality has a 100% placement rate. Others, like Demography, have been defunct for years. Word on the street is that Physical Education and Science Education were given the opportunity to merge but refused it and are now paying the price.

As far as related programs, in some cases yes, in some cases no. But the hope is that no one will have to switch out of a degree program they already have a substantial amount of coursework in.

This literally just hit the press this morning, so there's not a lot of information. I personally wonder if its not an extreme worst-case scenario deal, and when it turns out we only have to cut 11 programs everyone will be thrilled. Our president has been known to do these sort of things.

Oh, and there's also the possibility of a 5% pay cut across the board.

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JennaDean
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I really feel for the teachers in those areas. I have a friend who teaches Ceramics at the local U. What a shock that will be to their families.
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Samprimary
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Ah, anthropology.
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zgator
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quote:
I must admit that I won't shed tears for "Hospitality & Golf Management".
That's because you don't live in Florida where the economy is largely driven by tourism.
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Nighthawk
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FSU has/had a degree in "Golf Management" ?
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TomDavidson
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You laugh, but if you'd ever seen the horrors of unmanaged golf, you'd recognize the need.
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brojack17
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Golf is a huge industry. Why wouldn't it be a degree. Sure you could probably get by with a generic business degree, but you could learn a lot more in specialized classes.
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James Tiberius Kirk
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Molecular Biophysics?

My school cut language programs. It caused a bit of an uproar, but wasn't as widespread as this.

--j_k

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Lalo
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove:
Anthropology
Apparel Design
Hospitality & Golf Management
Physical Education
Science Education (College of Education)
Geography
Behavioral Psychology
Art Education
Ceramics
Sculpture
Studio Art
Recreational Management
German
Slavic Languages
Demography
Art Administration

As well, programs such as Religion, Philosophy, and Economics are looking to be reduced/merged.

I'm fine with everything up there being knocked off (in times of crisis), and I think History should lose some budget. Religion and philosophy should be axed, not reduced. But economics?

And these... they couldn't find any use for geology? No big demand for geothermal energy, right? What would we use molecular biophysics for?

Geophysical Fluid Dynamics
Geological Sciences
Molecular Biophysics
Oceanography
Software Engineering


I can actually understand cutting them if FSU's not competitive in, say, geophysical fluid dynamics... but come on, how is FSU not awesome at oceanography? It should have the best program in the country.

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Nighthawk
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quote:
...but come on, how is FSU not awesome at oceanography? It should have the best program in the country.
Actually, in Florida I'd have to give that nod to the University of Miami. The resources they have here don't compare.
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King of Men
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quote:
Originally posted by zgator:
quote:
I must admit that I won't shed tears for "Hospitality & Golf Management".
That's because you don't live in Florida where the economy is largely driven by tourism.
Yes, yes, a valuable skill, but as a college major? Come now. This is just credentialism run mad.
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zgator
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The University of Central Florida in Orlando has a separate campus for their hospitality college.

Rosen College of Hospitality Management

Harris Rosen is probably the biggest hotelier in the area and he must think there's a big need for it. Future hotel managers have to learn how to run things somewhere.

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fugu13
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Cornell's Hotel Administration School is quite well respected, and a very rigorous program.
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King of Men
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quote:
The University of Central Florida in Orlando has a separate campus for their hospitality college.
And quite rightly so; keeping the smelly riff-raff away from real people with actual rights is what ghettoes were invented for.

quote:
Cornell's Hotel Administration School is quite well respected [by whom?][weasel words], and a very rigorous program [citation needed]
Fixed that for you.


Seriously, I'm not objecting to people being trained to manage hotels. I'm just saying that this is not a skill which requires a college education; it belongs in a business school.

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fugu13
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Well respected by the numerous places that hire hoteliers trained there, for instance. And the degree you earn as an undergraduate is a BS, not a BA, which Cornell only allows for degrees meeting certain high standards.
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scholarette
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Molecular Biophysics really ought to be absorbed into the biochem program, perhaps as a minor, but it doesn't need its own degree.
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by Nighthawk:
quote:
...but come on, how is FSU not awesome at oceanography? It should have the best program in the country.
Actually, in Florida I'd have to give that nod to the University of Miami. The resources they have here don't compare.
Yeah, I gotta agree. Our program is no slouch, but not exactly top tier. From what I understand, our English and English Education departments are pretty rockin, Music isn't too bad, and Film School kicks butt. Oh, and History. We, ahem, have one of, if not the largest collection of documents from Napoleonic Europe in North America. Oh, and Tom Brokaw just created an endowment for the World War II Institute.


I have to reiterate, these programs are not gone, or even necessarily on their way out. Their elimination is proposed, but its pending the legislature voting on the budget and also a counter plan is likely going to be produced by the Faculty Senate. So if your dream was to come to the Dedman School of Hospitality at Florida State University, don't give up yet!

(For the record, I'm ideologically with KoM as far as the absurdity of a Hospitality and Golf program, though I can't ignore the niche it fills in Florida)

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andi330
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I don't know much about golf, but I can certainly see the benefit of hospitality majors. Think about the amount of work that just goes in to running say, a restaurant. It's mostly customer facing and all about service. I would think that running a hotel would be 100 times worse. It's all about the customer, and you have to be able to balance the customer's wants and needs with the ability to turn a profit and manage your employees. Sure there's behind the scenes stuff, most of us don't run into electricians during our hotel stays, but they either have one on staff or one that they call when something goes wrong, and that's just one of hundreds of issues they have to deal with on a nearly constant basis.
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AvidReader
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quote:
I'm just saying that this is not a skill which requires a college education; it belongs in a business school.
Business schools are colleges. We have vocational schools for blue collar jobs, but everything else is college or on the job training.
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Tatiana
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This is sad, but, when your budget gets cut drastically, (and whose isn't in times like these?) this is what you do. You go down the list, decide you can't bear to cut anything, realize you have to anyway, and then start cutting.

It's not as though the people who support the college aren't having to scale their lives back too. Ugly facts of life intrude sometimes. Far better to see in advance what you can't afford than to overextend, go into debt, and then have to pay interest on top of cutting way back to match income when the time comes to pay back the debt. This is just good management on the part of the university.

We're in an economic hurricane. Time to batten down all the hatches and sail with bare poles.

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King of Men
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quote:
Originally posted by AvidReader:
quote:
I'm just saying that this is not a skill which requires a college education; it belongs in a business school.
Business schools are colleges. We have vocational schools for blue collar jobs, but everything else is college or on the job training.
I am not making an administrative distinction between colleges and vocational schools; I am making a distinction between places that will make you take courses in things completely unrelated to your field, for purposes of broadening your understanding, and places that won't; the original definition of 'liberal arts'; liberal as in 'unconstrained'. Hotel management ought to be taught by places that won't.
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fugu13
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Except part of being a quality hotel manager is being well rounded. Hotel administration undergrads at Cornell, for instance, are required to take courses in the humanities and sciences. So the program there meets your criteria.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
Hotel management ought to be taught by places that won't.
Why, exactly?

Serious question. It seems pretty arbitrary to me that we make these sorts of distinctions in some cases.

Vocational schools make good logistical sense, if for no other reason than there is lots of fixed equipment necessary only in training in those fields, and that can be used for training in other vocations as well.

But something like hotel management?

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