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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Star Trek (spoilers) (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Star Trek (spoilers)
Chris Bridges
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That... was an excellent movie.

I'll get my annoyances out of the way first, because there aren't many.
- Sulu's magic folding sword just made me laugh. Would have been better for him to grab something sword-like and use that.
- Can't Kirk go 10 minutes without hanging from his fingertips off a precipice? I half-expected him to fall off something during his award ceremony. "I award you... Kirk? Where'd you go?"
- The Romulan ship interior, which was designed on George Lucasian blueprints, with the obligatory tiny walkways over dizzying heights with no handrails whatsoever.
- Didn't that just piss off an awful lot of experienced officers who spent years working their way up the ranks to get their own ship? "Well done! But instead we're going to give this new ship to the brand new crew of just-graduated cadets." Sure, they saved the Earth, but still.
- Why was Chekov also the transporter expert? One of the things that was troubling about the original shows was how the entire ship was seemingly run by the same 10 people, over and over.
- The complete and total absence of any defense of the Earth whatsoever. Or orbiting ships. Or anything.
- I would have liked a bit of the theme to have been played in the beginning. Personal preference.

And that's pretty much it. Otherwise I loved this as a return to the kinds of things I loved from the original series. The humor, the action, the relationships, the funky science. Some things that especially struck me:

- McCoy. Urban nailed McCoy so perfectly that his McCoyisms fit smoothly into the dialogue, where they might have felt forced with any other actor.
- A Federation starship that finally, finally looks like something that might actually work. Shuttles that look like they might actually transport people. Airlock signs on the elevator doors. A barrier between the teleporter pads and the control panel. A lot of thought went into the design, and I loved it all.
- Spock(s). Zachary Quinto turned in a brilliant performance. Most Vulcans besides Spock, Sarek and T'pau, through the past 4 decades of Trek, have seemed overly emotional or cruel or just poorly acted. Quinto got it right. And Nimoy presented the ideal Spock is looking for, a balance of human and Vulcan that has moved past intelligence into wisdom.
- The humor. I've heard people complain about the amount of humor in the movie, and I direct them to go watch the original series again.
- Kirk. My brother-in-law noticed that Kirk throughout the movie avoided Shatnerisms but made a decent enough Kirk, until the end, when he appeared on the bridge in uniform and was truly Captain Kirk for the first time.
- Halfway intelligent space battle. "Fire everything!" Much better than the traditional "fire one torpedo and let's see what happens before we do anything else" method that worked so well for Starfleet in the past. Loved the quick decimation of the shields, loved the rapid fire, loved the hull breach that reminded us that this stuff is dangerous.
- Pike's wheelchair. Nice touch.
- Spock and Uhura's romance, or whatever it is. One of the biggest changes, but now I'm insanely curious to see where they go with it.
- Chekov having a better defined skill set than the original show, where they never seemed to know where to put him.
- Sarek. I didn't think anyone could match Mark Leonard for the gravitas and intelligence of Spock's dad, but this wasn't too far off.
- No sound in space! Or not much. And constantly moving cameras, and out-of-focus zooming. Joss Whedon's legacy lives on.
- The colored warp lines, gone. Thank you.

Actually, I realize I could keep going. Suffice it to say "Star Trek" worked for me, a diehard Trek fan from the original series, and I hope they maintain the quality and attention to detail. And to think, this was an odd numbered episode. That means the next one will be even better...

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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Bridges:
One of the things that was troubling about the original shows was how the entire ship was seemingly run by the same 10 people, over and over.

In an emergency, officers may be required to man stations that are not normally their own, no time to wait for the proper people to get in place. I imagine a cadet is trained to get at least a barebones understanding of every vital bit of tech on a ship.

Things I enjoyed:

The original series actually hinted a few times that Uhura was attracted to Spock. It's interesting to see A Spock who openly returns this attraction. And given what happens to him, it only seems right.

I like that Nero didn't quote Shakespeare, he didn't really speechify much at all. He's just an emotionally and mentally broken miner, craving that everyone experience the loss he did.

The devastation of StarFleet early on, really amping up the tension. If the Enterprise failed, it really would all go to hell.

Scotty. Just...Scotty.

More thoughts later.

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Nighthawk
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quote:
- Sulu's magic folding sword just made me laugh. Would have been better for him to grab something sword-like and use that.
And put it where exactly? They just did a HALO jump from space!

I figure it's his personal weapon and not Federation issue, in which case it's not surprising that it's subtle.

quote:
- The complete and total absence of any defense of the Earth whatsoever. Or orbiting ships. Or anything.
When the fleet went ahead of the Enterprise by what seemed to be a matter of only minutes, they were vaporized. Anyone that was in Earth orbit would have met an equal fate.

And that's not considering that it's rather unclear how much of the fleet was actually left. After all, they did sent the Enterprise - a ship packed full of cadets - seemingly because they didn't have anyone else.

I guess nobody's questioned why, whenever there is a cataclysm somewhere in the universe, the Enterprise is *always* the one NEAREST. [Wink]

And how does a mining ship get that kind of artillery? I mean, forget Warbirds... let's get something the size of a small moon that can blow up planets and has enough firepower to mop up the Federation fleet single handed!

quote:
- I would have liked a bit of the theme to have been played in the beginning. Personal preference.
The end credits made up for that in my book.
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aeolusdallas
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One thing I liked. While the Earth had no defenses it never does in Trek. never any orbiting fortresses, ground to space guns, local fighters...nothing ever in any Trek movie or episode. This time at least they sent more than 1 ship to deal with a problem. Every other disaster in a trek movie or show and it is always "The only ship in the sector"
Of course the other ships were just warp capable red shirts but baby steps and all that.

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Chris Bridges
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And put it where exactly? They just did a HALO jump from space!

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. Try this:

"What sort of combat training have you had?"
"Fencing."
Long look from Kirk.
They dive. They land. They get into the fight with the Romulans, and Sulu isn't doing so well. Hand-to-hand with someone trained and much stronger than you is rough.
Until the Romulan, aiming for Sulu, misses and slices off a shard of metal from the deck.
Sulu grabs it up and now everything's different (think Princess Bride, "I'm not left-handed either" sort of feel).

That's more like what I meant. Most of the tech in the movie was either logical or presented in such a way as not to trigger my "oh, come on" reactions, but the folding sword was something from "Get Smart."

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Raymond Arnold
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Loved it, except for one huge glaring coincidence. (Two, I guess). Kirk lands, of all the places on that planet he could possibly have landed, within about a mile of Spock... who lives about a mile from Scotty, and has never bothered trying to get off the planet before now.

quote:
- I would have liked a bit of the theme to have been played in the beginning. Personal preference.

>>The end credits made up for that in my book.

This. I'm still a little torn. I would have wished for the music being a little more trek-inspired in general. I have a big beef with nostalgia movies that don't bother including the original music (or at least a twist on it). Transformers in particular made me scream at the end of the credits, I was so mad we didn't get to hear a newfangled version of the 80s theme song. I spent the whole Trek movie bracing myself for the disappointment of random rock music I was afraid we'd get.

But no, they went with the best possible interpretation of the original music. I was impressed.

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Raymond Arnold
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(I didn't have a problem with the sword by the way, although I would have been just as happy with the afore-described "grab a piece of metal" option)
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aeolusdallas
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Faster than light ships and transporters and you think a memory metal sword that isn't even all that advanced and is well within our at least theoretical knowledge bothers you?
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Chris Bridges
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On the plus side, the credits weren't accompanied by a hip hop version of the theme.
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Chris Bridges
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Faster than light ships and transporters and you think a memory metal sword that isn't even all that advanced and is well withing out at least theoretical knowledge bothers you?

Yeah, it did. Those devices are, in Bella Bee's marvelous term, made of "handwavium." They depend on a process I wouldn't understand in the first place, and operate on largely logical principles once you accept their existence. The foldy sword just popped out of nowhere and my first reaction was laughter. "Didn't Wesley have one of those up his sleeve in 'Angel'?"

Had the memory metal been used previously in the movie for some other purpose, or had we seen Sulu tucking the folded wad of metal into his pouch, it probably wouldn't have gotten that reaction from me.

But I do the same thing in superhero movies. I'll accept that a man can fly or cling to walls, but he damn well better obey the laws of physics after that.

[ May 08, 2009, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: Chris Bridges ]

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Chris Bridges
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i just hope future Spock left a long list of upcoming threats that were stopped the first time around, with instructions on how to handle them. "First, get some whales..."
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Puffy Treat
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Super powers don't obey the laws of physics in the movies any more than they do in the comics. At least, not in any of the super-hero movies I've ever seen. They're basically a form of magic that just isn't called magic, in order to help suspension of disbelief.
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Nighthawk
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Bridges:
i just hope future Spock left a long list of upcoming threats that were stopped the first time around, with instructions on how to handle them. "First, get some whales..."

"Oh, and Kirk... When you come across a tall, black haired Mexican with a funny accent, push him out the airlock before he makes your life miserable."
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Raymond Arnold
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quote:
"Oh, and Kirk... When you come across a tall, black haired Mexican with a funny accent, push him out the airlock before he makes your life miserable."
I can't recall if this is a reference to an episode or a movie.
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TL
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Needed more lens flare. There were a few scenes where I could almost make out the actors' faces.
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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
quote:
"Oh, and Kirk... When you come across a tall, black haired Mexican with a funny accent, push him out the airlock before he makes your life miserable."
I can't recall if this is a reference to an episode or a movie.
Both, actually.
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TL
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And seriously, there was a lot of lens flare in this movie. Two people talking alone in a room? I know how we can spice this up. Lens flare. Designing the bridge? I don't think we have enough individual light sources to use, you know -- in case we need extra lens flare. Can you figure out a way to add twenty more light sources? What do you mean 'no'? I want one of those Ikea reading lamps at every one of these stations. What do you mean they don't need reading lights because the displays are all screens which are lit from within? You think I care? I want lens flare options, damn it. Space scenes? Put the sun behind that planet, we need some lens flare. I don't care if the sun was behind that other planet in the opposite shot. Nobody's going to notice that. We need lens flare. Okay. What scene are we shooting today? Kirk meets Scotty? We need some lens flare up in here. Kirk meets Bones? Give me some lens flare.
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Bella Bee
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quote:
Didn't that just piss off an awful lot of experienced officers who spent years working their way up the ranks to get their own ship? "Well done! But instead we're going to give this new ship to the brand new crew of just-graduated cadets." Sure, they saved the Earth, but still.
For a moment, at the end, I was thinking exactly this. But it was a nice callback to the end of Star Trek IV - Kirk always seems to be given back the keys to the Enterprise at tribunals.

There was a lot to like about this movie, but my favourite moment between Kirk and Spock is where Kirk is sitting in the captain's chair (and looks so natural there) and Spock calmly shoos him out of it.

Although it’s somewhat clichéd to have the only main female character be a designated love interest, I liked the idea of the Uhura/Spock relationship in principle. I have to say that in the series Uhura always seemed rather too lively and vibrant for Spock (though I could always see her with Kirk). But here she was a very much more serious, driven character.
When I was little, before I knew anything about the politics of US television of the era, it always seemed weird to me that she never seemed to be set up with any of the crew.
The only moment that seemed off to me was when they were snogging on the transporter pad in front of everyone - which was such a very human thing to do and wasn’t the slightest, tiniest bit logical at all.
In the context of the story, it made sense. In the context of Spock, as we knew him Jim, it seemed jarringly out of character.
Also, I didn’t much like that Spock had been romancing Uhura while he was her academy tutor - which seems massively unprofessional.
Over all, I'm interested to see where it goes - although if Kirk and Spock start fighting over Uhura, I hope she just tells them where to go and what to do when they get there.

I loved that Pike didn’t get killed or blown up. We had the original pilot episode on video when I was a kid, and I was always fond of him and sad that he came to such a sad fate. So a happy retirement for him was lovely.

I thought it was weird that we only saw about ten vulcans when the planet blew up. It diminished the impact somehow - we hear that 6 billion people died but we don’t see it. We also never see enough of Spock’s mum to care much.
But I liked that moment of honesty about her between Sarek and Spock - it looks as if, this time round, they will make sure each of them knows how much they love each other.

Nero was a bit hopeless as a baddie - he looked weird and had a big scary ship, but personality wise, he was a bit blank. I liked that he was so easy to kill, though - nothing worse than those baddies who just keep coming back from the dead for more.

It took too long for everyone to get together in the same place. But once they were there - they were so perfect. That moment, when Kirk walks onto the bridge in the yellow shirt was wonderful.

And then Nimoy's ' to boldly go' and the theme music felt earned. To have it earlier, before we knew these new/old characters, before they were back in their rightful place, would have been unfair. But they had fought their way back to their destiny, and this was it.

Reading over old threads, I realise that 2 ½ years ago, talking about on the movie on this board, I said:

quote:
‘Successful’ is what the franchise needs right now if it is ever going to survive. If it’s a movie with good acting, lots of explosions, and some humour (and maybe even a plot) people will actually go and see it.
I don’t care what or who it’s about at this point, as long as it’s a Good Movie. For fans as loyal as Star Trek’s have been, it would be nice to see them get what they deserve.

This was THAT movie. [Smile]

[ May 08, 2009, 04:43 AM: Message edited by: Bella Bee ]

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BryanP
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I posted this in the other thread but this is where it's at now so I'll add my thoughts here, too:

i loved it. reviews have made it sound fun but i was surprised by how fun it actually was. it was really in no way a serious sci-fi film but an action-comedy. i was most surprised by how funny it was, which is really a mark of how well the film was written, cast, and directed. and the cast was perfect. pine is a far better actor than shatner and makes a great kirk, and quinto and urban were also excellent. and really, so was everyone else. my biggest complaint is that the film could have been longer to flesh out the characters a little more, but despite being balls to the wall throughout it had some very nice character moments, especially at the beginning and with kirk/bones and kirk/spock. leonard nimoy was also incredibly well utilized and despite worrying about the time travel aspect i thought it was really well done

another important thing that i liked is that while there wasn't much talk about our society in general, when it did come up (bones' divorce, the bar scene, kirk's childhood), it was pretty much like our society brought into the future. none of this utopian nonsense, all humans are happy and do their jobs to better themselves, etc. which has always been one of the most ridiculous things about roddenberry's world.

i could really go on and on about how great the whole thing was. now that the setup is complete i hope they can explore some more serious sci-fi ideas in the next film, but i do hope it retains the sense of fun this one had. i can't imagine there will be a better film this summer and i hope it rakes in an absolute ton of cash

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Chris Bridges
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Super powers don't obey the laws of physics in the movies any more than they do in the comics. At least, not in any of the super-hero movies I've ever seen. They're basically a form of magic that just isn't called magic, in order to help suspension of disbelief.

Calling it magic or superpowers doesn't help me at all. Yes, it's impossible for a man to leap 35 feet and stick to a wall. But if I know the man has superpowers, AND I am shown him gathering to leap, flying through the air at a velocity that makes sense, and sticking to the wall with the muscle flexing and shifting of mass that my mind expects to see, my "oh, come on" reflexes are not triggered. In "Spider-Man 2," the notion of a man wearing massive metal arms on his back that were connected to his brain seems like a tough thing to swallow. But little details like the fact that whenever Doc Ock lifted something heavy, like a taxi, two of his arms always braced against the ground first... that helped sell it to the parts of my mind that can't stop thinking about things like that.

The way Spidey jumped around on big balloons in the first movie, that didn't look "right." But the closing scene, showing him swinging and spinning to finally land on the Empire State Building, that just filled me with glee because it was perfect.

I knew "Daredevil" was going to be crap from the beginning, when he plummeted 20 stories and landed on a fire escape without his spine telescoping into his feet. I "know" that Daredevil has no powers so shouldn't be able to make superpowered moves. Immediately I'm out of the movie, and a fantasy movie cannot ever let that happen.

It's not just superhero movies. Any movie or show that includes a fantastic element had better pay attention to details to keep me in the story, or I'll get knocked out of the moment and suddenly start noticing all the other problems the movie has...

An entertaining enough movie can skip me past such problems, however. I loved "Iron Man," despite the fact that his two ground impacts should have pulped his internal organs instantly. But by the time that happened, I was already caught up and invested in the story. Same here; Sulu's sword didn't ruin anything for me, it was a just a minor "what?" in two hours of delight.

Obviously, your mileage may vary. This is just how my mind works.

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BandoCommando
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Karl Urban was utterly perfect as Bones, which I would have never guessed when I thought about his relatively wooden performance as Eomer in LOTR.

Quinto was also excellent as Spock. I thought I might be distracted with his "Sylar-isms", but there weren't ANY moments where I was jolted away from the Spock-ness of his mannerisms. I, too, found the idea of a Uhura-Spock relationship to be, ahem, "intriguing", as Spock might say. Wouldn't have seen that one coming.

One of the things I actually liked about the "Enterprise" tv series was that things didn't look as plastic, shiny, and ultimately non-functional as everything in the TNG, DS9, and Voyager series did. It resembled a half-way point between the appearance of modern day naval vessels and appropriately sci-fi looking interiors. So getting to see the engineering section of the Enterprise look like something OTHER than a bright shiny tube surrounded by glass panels was quite gratifying to me!

I agree that the double-coincidence of Spock Prime and Scotty being on Delta Vega within kilometers of each other, which also happened to be near the place where Kirk's pod crash landed was a bit of a stretch. And Chris was right about the stupidity of the interior of the Romulan vessel. As my dad used to say when we watched Star Wars movies, "OSHA would have a fit!!"

Regarding the extreme powers of Nero's vessel, I believe that there are two possible answers:

- First off, some comics were developed and distributed as stand-alone iPhone/iPod Touch apps several weeks ago that provided the back-story for this movie. (Aside: what do you call a back-story that actually took place (willan-taken place) in the future?) Picard and crew work with Ambassador Spock to first attempt the salvation of Romulus, then to prevent the destruction of the galaxy, the story ending with Spock's and Nero's ships getting consumed by the singularity. At some point in there, though I don't recall how/when, Nero's simple mining vessel became transformed to be just completely kick-donkey.
- Second, it's technology from over a century in the future. Imagine modern weaponry being used in World War I and see who wins. Even without massive upgrades, it's at least partially plausible that the Romulan ship would have overwhelming tactical superiority over ships of a previous generation.

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Ron Lambert
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Excellent movie, great characterizations. And bold! They pulled a "Terminator" and changed the future! Now they can spawn whole new movie sequels and even a new TV series! I do feel sorry for the Vulcans. And Amanda (Spock's mother).
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Chris Bridges
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Something that's consuming me now: what does this mean for the rest of the franchise?

What about the novels? Will I still get regular New Frontier novels?

What about the ongoing comics?

Will this become an "Ultimate" universe, much like Marvel's mostly successful reboot, with the original one still carrying on (offscreen) as before?

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Carrie
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Bridges:
Will this become an "Ultimate" universe, much like Marvel's mostly successful reboot, with the original one still carrying on (offscreen) as before?

This. I refuse to believe that somewhere out there Picard and crew aren't "charting the unknown possibilities of existence." Treating like Marvel's Ultimate-verse is perfectly fine by me, so long as they never ever try to redo TNG.
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BryanP
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quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
so long as they never ever try to redo TNG.

Yeah, for some reason the idea of redoing TNG is much more offensive to me than TOS, but I guess it's because I always liked TNG more. But also like I said before, Pine is a better actor than Shatner and you're not going to ever find a better actor to play Picard.
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BandoCommando
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I think that the changed timeline fits easily into the established Star Trek canon. Alternate timelines co-existing across a dimensional barrier have been a part of every Star Trek show, with the exception of TNG. TOS introduced the 'dark universe' with the evil Kirk and goatee-sporting Spock, which was continued in DS9 with the alternate universe. IIRC, there was even a series of Enterprise episodes that had this dark universe.

Point is, there's nothing stopping the original timeline from still existing in a universe where, say, Nero was never born or the destruction of Romulus was averted somehow.

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TL
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Pine is not a better actor than Shatner. Will you stop saying that?

I guess I'm the only one who thought this was pretty much your average Star Trek film, with a few modifications. Dumber than most Star Trek films, but on the other hand -- funnier. Lots of self-referential stuff. Lots of little nods to the fandom. (Who didn't expect the space jump guy in the red uniform to die?) Dumbed-down time travel as a major plot point. It pretty much hit all the regular Star Trek notes. I left the theater unsure about why this was supposedly such a huge departure for the franchise. There's not a doubt in my mind that Berman and Braga could have written the same movie.

I'm not saying I hated it. I thought it was entertaining. It was fun to watch. It's an okay time at the movies. I'd probably give it three out of five stars. I don't want to be such a naysayer. I'll step out and let you guys rave rave rave.

But there were just way too many things that made no sense to me. Chief amongst them: How come no one from Starfleet ever, not once, contacted the U.S.S. Enterprise during this movie? There wasn't a single admiral who got on the comm and said, 'Hey boys, looks like you graduated from the academy 15 minutes ago, and now you're running amok like madmen all over the solar system. Why don't you stop off at X? We'd like to get some experienced officers aboard to deal with this earth-threatening crisis.' Another one: Why did they have to go through all the trouble in the movie if solving the problem was as easy as shooting the drill? Why did Kirk Land on a moon magically within walking distance of Spock, who in turn was magically within walking distance of Scotty?

When I start to think about the plot, I also realize that there were multiple instances in which the characters wouldn't have known what to do -- might have done nothing -- except for listening to old Spock. Old Spock has all the answers: Here's how you teleport onto a moving ship. Here's how you take command of the enterprise. Here's how you spend the rest of your life. Stand right here looking scared while I fight off this beast with my fire stick. (There were no trees on that moon. Where did he get wood for a fire?)

Just... I'm sorry. I guess I'm doomed to be that guy. That guy whose mind requires things not to be so easy. I thought the movie was lazily written.

But the actors had a lot of chemistry and were fun to watch. That's what was good about it. The cast.

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Nighthawk
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Yeah, you are "that guy".

Now go away and let us revel. [Razz]

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BryanP
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I can more easily let those complaints go cause it was an action-comedy, not meant to be taken seriously. Like, that stuff isn't important, it's just supposed to be a fun movie.

And Pine is better than Shatner [Taunt]

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Raymond Arnold
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quote:
Originally posted by TL:
Pine is not a better actor than Shatner. Will you stop saying that?

I guess I'm the only one who thought this was pretty much your average Star Trek film, with a few modifications. Dumber than most Star Trek films, but on the other hand -- funnier. Lots of self-referential stuff. Lots of little nods to the fandom. (Who didn't expect the space jump guy in the red uniform to die?) Dumbed-down time travel as a major plot point. It pretty much hit all the regular Star Trek notes. I left the theater unsure about why this was supposedly such a huge departure for the franchise. There's not a doubt in my mind that Berman and Braga could have written the same movie.

I'm not saying I hated it. I thought it was entertaining. It was fun to watch. It's an okay time at the movies. I'd probably give it three out of five stars. I don't want to be such a naysayer. I'll step out and let you guys rave rave rave.

But there were just way too many things that made no sense to me. Chief amongst them: How come no one from Starfleet ever, not once, contacted the U.S.S. Enterprise during this movie? There wasn't a single admiral who got on the comm and said, 'Hey boys, looks like you graduated from the academy 15 minutes ago, and now you're running amok like madmen all over the solar system. Why don't you stop off at X? We'd like to get some experienced officers aboard to deal with this earth-threatening crisis.' Another one: Why did they have to go through all the trouble in the movie if solving the problem was as easy as shooting the drill? Why did Kirk Land on a moon magically within walking distance of Spock, who in turn was magically within walking distance of Scotty?

When I start to think about the plot, I also realize that there were multiple instances in which the characters wouldn't have known what to do -- might have done nothing -- except for listening to old Spock. Old Spock has all the answers: Here's how you teleport onto a moving ship. Here's how you take command of the enterprise. Here's how you spend the rest of your life. Stand right here looking scared while I fight off this beast with my fire stick. (There were no trees on that moon. Where did he get wood for a fire?)

Just... I'm sorry. I guess I'm doomed to be that guy. That guy whose mind requires things not to be so easy. I thought the movie was lazily written.

But the actors had a lot of chemistry and were fun to watch. That's what was good about it. The cast.

In the abstract, this wasn't a particularly great movie. A solid fun action flick but not much else. However, what this movie does so magnificently is take the notion of "fan appeasement" to an artform. I say that without a trace of irony. From the way the cast perfectly channels the original actors to the way they squeeze in a million bajillion references to TOS moments without it feeling forced at all, all while keeping it something that a newcomer can just sit down and enjoy... I consider this a great movie, purely from the standpoint of how well they capture the original feel while updating it for a new generation.
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Orincoro
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I'm simply very tired of the idea of an evil alien (often romulan or borg) setting out towards the Earth with a doomsday weapon, and the intent of destroying human civilization (often because they are themselves from the future). This basic plot has been a part of at least, oh, 6 of the 11 Star Trek movies, and several episodes of various series as well. Go down to the convenient store, and buy yourself a new plot.

Also, why must the Golden Gate be in the vicinity of every alien attack on Earth in Star Trek lore (and most other movies that feature San Francisco)? ST IV, STXI, more than one episode of DS9, TNG, and even Voyager managed to shoehorn in the Golden Gate as the backdrop of violent destruction. Having grown up pretty close to where ST academy is supposed to be (really close in fact) I was always a little disheartened by the GG's butt-monkey status in movies.

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TL
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Raymond, I agree with everything you said. Except for it being a great movie. It might be a great fan appeasement movie -- but as a neutral party, and not a "fan" -- I just can't make the leap from great fan appeasement movie to great movie. It was a pretty decent movie.
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romanylass
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It was a great movie in a lot of ways- some great acting and characterizations, but some I am upset that Abrams: first, used that tired old time travel meme and THEN did not use it to change the time line back pretty much to what ir was before. No Vulcan? Very wrong.
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Raymond Arnold
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I actually think blowing up Vulcan was one of the ballsiest things they could have done. It actually in some ways brings the series back to "true science fiction" (i.e. depicting what the results of a particular science or technology would have on the world). Except instead of seeing how Warp Drive or transporters or whatever affected human civilization, we are seeing how a single event - the destruction of Vulcan - may impact the original Star Trek universe we are familiar with. I'm hoping they continue to show the echoes of that change.
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Chris Bridges
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Part of the intent of the movie was to reboot Trek with an open future so that new fans could enjoy it without having to cram 40 years of backstory.

I saw the first series. I saw a lot of TNG. I saw a few DS9s, and the tribble episode. And I watched the first 4 Enterprises hoping to see something good and gave up, bored. The only Trek I've been interested in at all for 10 years is Peter David's "New Frontier" series of books.

This Trek brought me back, and reminded me why I liked it in the first place.

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Mucus
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Just got back from the movie.
I took my father out to it since the first movie I remember going out to see (with my rather bad memory) was one of the original series Star Trek movies.

I liked it. It went by like a flash despite being long. The only thing is there was so much happening on-screen and so much lens flaring that my eyes kinda feel like exploding (which must mean I must be getting old). Hopefully the next movie might have a few more slow scenes between the bridge crew.

Of the big three, I knew I liked the new Spock beforehand, the McCoy I wasn't too sure of but on-screen he looks great, but I'm still yet to be sold on the new Kirk. I watched for the end scene and it might look promising though.

I do like Chris' point about consequences. The most annoying thing about the old series was that you had so many inventions that should have substantively changed human culture and so many events that should have had far reaching consequences. So at least they're setting up the Vulcan-destruction as something that will be interesting.

Man... my eyes hurt.

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Puffy Treat
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The screenwriters and producer are both on the record that as far as they're concerned, the "Prime" Trekverse timeline still exists. The timeline seen in the new film splits off from it, but does not replace it.

Though I doubt they'll be doing a Crisis of Infinite Treks story. [Wink]

(Well, other than the classic TNG episode where Worf is married to Troi and Riker is a borg-fearin' lunatic.)

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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by Orincoro:
I'm simply very tired of the idea of an evil alien (often romulan or borg) setting out towards the Earth with a doomsday weapon, and the intent of destroying human civilization (often because they are themselves from the future). This basic plot has been a part of at least, oh, 6 of the 11 Star Trek movies, and several episodes of various series as well. Go down to the convenient store, and buy yourself a new plot.

Most of the focus was not on Nero. We barely saw him. The focus was mainly on Kirk and Spock, struggling with themselves and each other.

On their first adventure together, which outside of the novels was a bit of unexplored territory.

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Dr Strangelove
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I liked it. I'm not a trekky, though my roommate and good friend have shown me a lot of DS9 and I've watched the first 6 or so movies. But I knew very little about the original characters, so this was mostly a first exposure. Mostly.

The one thing that I didn't really like, from my newbie chair, was the Uhura/Spock romance. It felt like we were given no explanation as to how why when, etc, he started to "love" her. It seemed to me a lot more like lust: You're wearing a really short dress, are really smart, and are pressing your lips against mine ... ok! And that seemed out of character for Spock.

But, what do I know. I definitely really enjoyed the movie, thought the acting and chemistry was great for the most part. I agree about the lens flares - a little too prevalent. And I think the pacing was a little off for me. I don't quite know how to explain that, but it wasn't brilliant. It was good, but not exceptional.

And I figure that its not sooo much of a stretch to put Kirk and Spock near each other. Nero wanted Spock to be able to see his planet explode, Kirk was just coming from watching said planet explode. Nero didn't want Spock dead, but instead to suffer the same sort of loss, so its not a stretch to put him in an inhospitable place somewhat close to a place which wouldn't provide him escape, but rather life. SylarSpock wanted the same thing for Kirk pretty much.
The stretch does come with Scotty being there, but whatever. Throw some time/space paradox explanation at it. Or call it "Destiny."

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Nighthawk
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quote:
Also, why must the Golden Gate be in the vicinity of every alien attack on Earth in Star Trek lore (and most other movies that feature San Francisco)?
It's where the United Federation of Planets was founded. Also the location of Starfleet Academy and Starfleet Headquarters, both of which are at the Presidio, which has an unobstructed view of the bridge pretty much from anywhere. It is the single most important city on Earth in the Star Trek universe.

To be honest, though, I was quite expecting the mine drill to come crashing down right on the bridge and destroy it.

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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Puffy Treat:

On their first adventure together, which outside of the novels was a bit of unexplored territory.

Yeah but, is no one off-put by the fact that this movie erases the events of all the other star trek shows and movies except Enterprise? Those things now didn't happen- right?
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BryanP
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quote:
Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:
Originally posted by Puffy Treat:

On their first adventure together, which outside of the novels was a bit of unexplored territory.

Yeah but, is no one off-put by the fact that this movie erases the events of all the other star trek shows and movies except Enterprise? Those things now didn't happen- right?
As a longtime Trek fan, I think that's absolutely the best thing they could have done. Why do we need more stories in the same continuity? It's been done, and you can go back to it any time you want.
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Ron Lambert
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Spock Prime (the elderly Spock played by Leonard Nimoy was called that in the credits) apparently remembers the old time line, so he can warn the Federation, Kirk, etc., of all the things they need to watch out for, that haven't been affected by the changes.

Since they are in the new past before Romulus was destroyed, maybe they could go save the Romulans, and thereby undo all the mischief that Nemo did--bringing back Vulcan, Spock's mother, Kirk's father, etc. This would reverse causality, with future causes having effects in the past, re-writing the timeline again. Hmmm, what was that concern some people had about the blurring of the line between science fiction and fantasy? Oh well, makes an entertaining story.

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Jeorge
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I enjoy trek, but I'm not such a diehard fan that this bothers me at all. I agree with BryanP. One of the advantages they have in doing this is, as they make new ST movies, they don't have to worry about every little nitpicking detail of continuity that diehard fans are going to complain about.

And the destruction of Vulcan is a cataclysmic event which will serve to veer events even further off the previous timeline AND serve as a sort of iconic reminder to everyone that this is not the timeline you've come to know over the years.

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Chris Bridges
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Saving Romulus in this new, revised timeline will not bring anything back. Vulcan is already gone. Although if the Enterprise can zip through time to pick up some whale take-out, I'm not sure why they can't go back to, you know, save a few billion Vulcans.
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BlackBlade
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Saw the movie last night and I completely enjoyed it. It's a spectacular introduction to the uninitiated, and those who already like Star Trek should find it an worthwhile experience. I agree with Chris that they did a superb job off getting to that halfway mark between industrial looking and future technology look.

Kirk getting ejected, and landing close to where Spock was, who was close to Scotty did not bother me all that much. It made sense that Spock was there, Kirk justified himself in being jettisoned at the right moment in time to be there, and Scotty being consigned to spend his days in some wasteland outpost because of an angry boss was such a fun explanation that I didn't care. They still have obnoxious bureaucracies in the future! Scotty being beamed into some water tank that then feeds into a shredder like device kinda annoyed me because I had no idea how that scene advanced the plot. Sure it gave Kirk a chance to do something, but the movie already had plenty of tension built up, and Kirk had already appraised Pike of Nero's trap, he'd disabled the drill, and was currently first officer.

Granted, there should have been some difficulty beaming Kirk and Scotty to a moving Enterprise even with Scotty's awesome quadratic equation formula for EZ moving teleportation, but still! Every other scene felt necessary and important, that scene felt thrown in there.

Uhura and Spock felt right, but there was still alittle bit of incredulity, but I attribute that to the fact we didn't get to see that relationship develop at all much. I liked the scene where Uhura indignantly tells off Spock for giving her an assignment beneath her abilities, Spock merely responds why he did it, she tells him how it is, and he obliges. Clearly some emotion was going on between them.

I would have loved to have more character development because I wanted to see those actors interact a bit more, we didn't get a bridge meeting with the whole cast, we had to watch them break off in pairs of twos and threes the whole movie which was fine, many of them hadn't come into their own yet.

I love love loved McCoy. I was so pleasantly surprised to see the actor nail his mannerisms and yet it felt naturally done. I'm really glad they gave him the extended sequence where he innoculates Kirk, then tries to stabilize multiple symptoms Kirk develops while Kirk is trying to save the Enterprise, it let us show that McCoy doesn't just complain alot, but actually enjoys medicine. Also, "Green blooded hobgoblin," made me laugh quite a bit.

----
Chris:
quote:
- The complete and total absence of any defense of the Earth whatsoever. Or orbiting ships. Or anything.
I thought that was the whole point of Pike's interrogation, that he would give up the subfrequency codes of earth so they could use their drill. Further, I thought just about every ship was sent off to Vulcan and was blown up by Nero.
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Nighthawk
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Bridges:
Saving Romulus in this new, revised timeline will not bring anything back. Vulcan is already gone. Although if the Enterprise can zip through time to pick up some whale take-out, I'm not sure why they can't go back to, you know, save a few billion Vulcans.

Going whale hunting to save Earth, arguably, would NOT violate the Prime Directive.

Saving Vulcan most definitely would.

I could accept Kirk throwing the Prime Directive out the window on more than one occasion, but no pureblood Vulcan would ever consider such a thing.

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Orincoro
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How does the prime directive apply to a federation member planet? I don't think it does. There is the temporal prime directive, but that doesn't exist in the 23rd century.
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aeolusdallas
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The prime directive in TOS only applies to pre warp societies. Vulcan is not only a warp capable society but also a founding member of the federation. The prime directive most certainly does NOT apply
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Nighthawk
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Well, it's up to interpretation I guess...

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Prime_directive

quote:
The Directive was later amended, prohibiting Starfleet officers from intervening even if non-intervention would result in the extinction of an entire species or the end of all life on a planet or star system. By the 24th century the Federation had begun applying the Prime Directive to warp-capable species, refusing to interfere in internal matters such as the Klingon Civil War.
...but...

quote:
Some Starfleet Captains, including James T. Kirk, Jean-Luc Picard and Kathryn Janeway have noted that the Prime Directive only applies to living growing civilizations and have overlooked the directive where it has been more convenient to do so...
Learn something new every day. [Smile]
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