quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: In fact, I'm ignoring people as we speak...
Same here
I suppose you do have a point. I tend to ignore a lot of the high-drama thread topics, or at least often end up is sort of a meta-thread within the main thread, discussing with one or two people while trying real hard to ignore several people who are simply tossing insults or behaving quite badly.
I do wish they'd mellow out, but I don't see it happening. The policy of ignoring bad behavior and whistling it ought to work, if we all stood by it, but of course, it's very tempting to tell people off when they insult you.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:I do wish they'd mellow out, but I don't see it happening. The policy of ignoring bad behavior and whistling it ought to work, if we all stood by it, but of course, it's very tempting to tell people off when they insult you.
I find it even harder when they insult people I care about.
quote:Thanks for looking out for us, PJ.
quote: You do great work, Pop. Sorry you're having to do so much of it lately
quote: Thanks Papa!!!
Add me to the list, consider the sentiment fourthed. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Not that I am saying anyone IN this thread CAUSED the last few years, mind you.
Some of the best people on Hatrack don't post here often, or at all, because of bulls**** like this, and that is a shame.
Everyone in this thread has caused the last few years - including those of us who have posted frequently and those who haven't.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:Are we on the same message board? Several people here seem to be getting seriously worked up over what, from my perspective, are pretty limited problems.
Well-- we're reading the same words, maybe, but obviously the interpretation is different.
The rest of your advice is sound, MC, and it's something I need to be reminded of.
That said, the atmosphere at Hatrack has gotten more hostile than I remember from a couple years ago. It's not just a couple problem posters, I don't think; it's a general attitude that is perhaps exacerbated by a small minority of hard nosed individuals.
The effect, for me, is to be less inclined to engage the community in the way I was used to. I'm not talking about touchy-feely, warm fuzzies threads; I'm talking about being willing to engage in ANY dialog at all.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I'm just not interested in conversations that devolve into petulance and hurtful attacks.
I am terribly interested in intelligent exchanges in which people "speak with passion and listen with respect". I consider many people I met on Hatrack to be friends, mentors, and personal heroes. Even if I disagree with particular opinions, I cannot help respecting the people who share them with integrity, insight, and intelligence. That's what I remember of Hatrack, and it's truly a sad day when most of those people don't feel good about participating in the life of this community.
Mighty Cow has mentioned the means by which annoying or unacceptable behavior used to be dealt with...by private whistling and an absolute refusal to engage in rude or disrespectful exchanges. In this fashion, I saw many an initially obnoxious poster grow into someone I could respect and enjoy. It's like dealing with a naughty child...if the bad behaviors aren't getting attention, he'll have to try something else to get what he wants. And what is rewarded is what the child learns is acceptable to do.
Why not show your appreciation for those posters you enjoy interacting with, even when you disagree with them? Give credit for what you agree with before making your points. Build on what you appreciate someone saying. It makes for a stronger and better community. And my thanks and love to those of you who already do these things!
Posts: 3141 | Registered: Apr 2000
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quote:Not that I am saying anyone IN this thread CAUSED the last few years, mind you.
Some of the best people on Hatrack don't post here often, or at all, because of bulls**** like this, and that is a shame.
Everyone in this thread has caused the last few years - including those of us who have posted frequently and those who haven't.
I disagree. I refuse to be responsible for other people's comments, attitudes or beliefs. You want to make a case for ME being rude, fine, but I don't think that is where you are going with that comment.
quote: Why not show your appreciation for those posters you enjoy interacting with, even when you disagree with them? Give credit for what you agree with before making your points. Build on what you appreciate someone saying. It makes for a stronger and better community. And my thanks and love to those of you who already do these things!
Remember, it's thanks at Hatrack, but I love you at home.
The emoticons I use are infinitely superior to the emoticons you use, without any possible exception. Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I tend to smell of pickles. I have a secondhand dresser and I swear somebody at some time spilled pickle juice in one of the drawers and I cannot get the smell out.
I eat a lot of cheese. I may smell of that, too.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
I will say this, though. As bad as the tone gets here at times, the 200 years of..." thread does illustrate how much better the worst of Hatrack is compared to many other places online.
posted
Actually, the 200 years thread is giving a good "outsider" illustration of what so many posters on hatrack have started to sound like, to me.
"Vaccines are teh bad" is his religion, just like certain political ideologies or positions have become the religion of many posters here (not to mention actual religious arguments). It stops being about debate and discourse, but more about belief and a fight against unbelievers.
No matter how much evidence is brought to bear, I don't think the poster on the 200 years thread will ever even consider re-analyzing his position, let alone changing it. And hatrack posters are often more content to poke fun and mock rather than engage to begin with.
It only seems bad because most (nearly all) posters on hatrack can see that his position is untenable. But there are many positions taken at hatrack where *both sides* feel the same about their opponent, and devolve to mocking or attacking because they feel their own arguments are sacrosanct.
You say it shows how much better we are compared to other places, and I say it illustrates very clearly problems we have within our own community. Remove the plank from our own eye, and whatnot.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
The way spambuster handled himself was such that it is nearly impossible to expect a 'better' response to someone when they introduce themselves to a forum the way they did. This is exactly when things like eye-rolling are warranted.
If a completely hostile, ill-mannered fly-by-night subject nuker shows up on a forum and opens his act with a salvo of hostilities and hypocritical accusations, what is wrong with some posters saying stuff like "ugh, go away?"
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
The problem is the same treatment has been given to members of the hatrack community in many threads... and that many members of the community behave as spambuster does when their own belief system is questioned.
I don't see anything in spambuster's reactions that I haven't seen from other posters on this very forum, and I didn't see anything in the hatracker reactions to spambuster that I haven't seen directed toward other hatrackers.
The concept that he somehow "was asking for it" isn't really defensible... as the same rationale can be applied between members of the community.
The "better" response is the one advocated repeatedly in this very thread - to ignore the trollish behavior entirely and not respond.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
So? If someone behaves like spambuster does, ever, they don't get to pawn responsibility for it off on 'the community.'
And it is pretty much impossible to expect people to not respond. People should be allowed to respond and they shouldn't be berated for taking someone like spambuster up on his claims and accusations. There is nothing wrong with it.
(which is thankful, because no forum can be realistically expected to respond to someone like spambuster with complete silence, and anyone who advocates it is expecting the nigh-impossible)
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Let facts and manners speak for themselves, if you feel you must respond. If you cannot reply in a respectful, mannerly, and fact-based way, then kindly refrain. Don't allow yourself to be provoked. I thought Tom's approach was a healthy way to deal with spambuster's posts.
Posts: 3141 | Registered: Apr 2000
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quote:So? If someone behaves like spambuster does, ever, they don't get to pawn responsibility for it off on 'the community.'
Not sure why you feel like that's happening. First, no one is pawning responsibility for his behavior off on the community - not sure why you feel like they have. Second, I'm a third party commentator in this situtation, so the "If someone does X, they don't get to Y" doesn't apply.
quote:And it is pretty much impossible to expect people to not respond. People should be allowed to respond and they shouldn't be berated for taking someone like spambuster up on his claims and accusations. There is nothing wrong with it.
I apologize that you feel berated by my drawing parallels between reactions to an invading troll and reactions between members of the community.
Too often on this board, conversation starts much like that thread did. I don't think anyone here really would jump to spambuster's defense (note that I am not), but there are many examples where someone comes into a thread with a serious topic about which they feel very strongly and are met with the same reaction.
quote:(which is thankful, because no forum can be realistically expected to respond to someone like spambuster with complete silence, and anyone who advocates it is expecting the nigh-impossible)
Spambuster isn't the issue. This thread was started (and contributed to by several people) under the premise that members of the hatrack community are treating each other in much the same way as that invading troll. Hostility, mockery, etc.
I honestly don't care about spambuster. But I've seen just as hostile and reactionary behavior in threads about global warming, atheism, abortion, gay marriage, Israel, etc.
In the so-called "Golden Age" of hatrack, spambuster would have been made a joke of similary (much like UniversePeople was). That's not my point. My point is that jatraqueros frequently get the same treatment nowadays, which I don't feel was the case in the past.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Not sure why you feel like that's happening. First, no one is pawning responsibility for his behavior off on the community - not sure why you feel like they have
What? That's exactly what spambuster spent over a page and a half unambiguously doing. Every time he was asked why he was being so insulting, his response was to say, essentially, that it was 'our' doing.
that's what I'm talking about.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Ah... see, I started skimming that thread after the first half of the first page, and abandoned it entirely shortly after. It just wasn't worth the energy.
I had assumed your comments were about this thread, where I don't feel as though anyone is doing that.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Well, skimming and abandoning threads has started to become the norm for me lately, since most threads on serious topics devolve into the same level of hostility that the 200 years thread did.
As for assumption, I was only really going on what has been said in this thread, though I understand I opened the door to the other thread so comments made there were fair game.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: ^----- Jon Borg
I don't know why I never thought of that one before. If these were the old days of registering superfluous screen names, I'd be sorely tempted right now.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
"Let facts and manners speak for themselves, if you feel you must respond. If you cannot reply in a respectful, mannerly, and fact-based way, then kindly refrain. Don't allow yourself to be provoked."
posted
Hmmm... if a quote belongs in this thread, how about this one:
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster." — Friedrich Nietzsche
Posts: 2432 | Registered: Feb 2001
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