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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Euro Turning Into a "Zombie Currency" (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Euro Turning Into a "Zombie Currency"
Ron Lambert
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Interesting article in CNBC about the Euro turning into a "zombie currency":

quote:
"The euro zone is currently in chaos with the euro no longer being functional and order will only be restored by giving struggling member states their currency back, according to Matthew Lynn founder of Strategy Economics.

“The euro is already dead. It no longer meets most of the criteria of a working form of money,” he said in a research note published Wednesday.

. . . .

"Lynn believes that any progress made by European politicians is irrelevant as the euro has already turned into a 'zombie currency'.

"He says countries can no longer use the single currency for imports meaning it is effectively ceasing to act like money.

“'There are already reports that oil traders don't want to supply clients in Greece,'” Lynn said.

“'Why not? Because in six months’ time when payment falls due they may not get paid in the currency the deal was struck in – but one worth much less.'”

"Lynn says that wealthy European investors are fleeing the euro to safe-havens such as the London property market.

"He warns that the euro is de-monetizing because trade has stopped flowing, investment has been postponed, output has declined and unemployment has begun to rise."

Link to whole article: http://www.cnbc.com/id/48749975

So it looks like the toes of Daniel's image in Daniel 2 are still divided:

"Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay." (Daniel 2:41-43; NKJV)

Even intermarrying all the royal houses of Europe did not work to unify Europe. Looks like having one currency, the Euro, is not going to work, either.

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MattP
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And yet the Euro is just a bit below the three-year high against the dollar and has been trending upwards for the past several months. You'd think if it was worthless (or about to be) then people would be trying to get rid of it.

Overall, investors seem pretty happy with the Euro these days:
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120821-707790.html

Oh, this is a fun tidbit, especially knowing your fondness for bold predictions:The "expert" quoted in your article once predicted that "...the iPhone won't make a long-term mark on the industry."

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King of Men
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quote:
oil traders don't want to supply clients in Greece
quote:
countries can no longer use the single currency for imports
One of these things is not like the other.
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Parkour
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Well it looks like Obama really was born in Kenya.

[problematicsource]blah blah really weak argument[/problematicsource]

So it looks like the wife of the fighting man Deuteronomy 25 still has had her hand amputated:

"When two men are fighting and the wife of one of them intervenes to drag her husband clear of his opponent, if she puts out her hand and catches hold of the man by his privates, you must cut off her hand and show her no mercy."

It looks like this is obviously fact and anyone who disagrees with me is a gullible idiot and I will claim they are doing the devil's work if they disagree with me too long.

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Teshi
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quote:
"Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay." (Daniel 2:41-43; NKJV)

Even intermarrying all the royal houses of Europe did not work to unify Europe. Looks like having one currency, the Euro, is not going to work, either.

What is this I don't even.

Parkour: Heh. Very much heh.

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The Rabbit
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Are there any pundits (or scriptures) forecasting that the pound will drop dramatically with the next few weeks? It would be really nice if it would do that and then rally to unprecedented heights over the next 3 to 5 years.
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Ron Lambert
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Matthew Lind was not predicting that the Euro will fail, he is reporting that the Euro is already a "zombie currency." This was on CNBC, not known as a right wing source.

What is your question, Teshi? The Roman empire was divided into the approximate "ten toes" of the modern nations of Europe. Daniel's prophecy said that they would never be united, even though they would try, even by "mingling the seed of men." This obviously found fulfillment in the effort in past centuries to intermarry all the royal houses of Europe (most of which do not even exist any more). Napoleon tried to unite Europe by force. He failed. The Kaiser tried, then Hitler tried. They all failed. Some people feared the Soviet Union, with all its mechanized divisions poised to sweep into Western Europe, might unite Europe. The USSR collapsed, and all the mechanized divisions basically rusted away or were sold or given to countries like Iraq, where they proved vastly inferior to American armor and armor-killing helicopters and planes. Now the Euro seems to be failing, as well, even though everyone thought that would unite Europe at least on some level.

A previous pastor of my church (Mike Hasel) said his grandfather Franz was an Adventist minister who was drafted into the German army under Hitler. The officer in charge of his company, while they were in Russia, came to pastor Franz Hasel and asked him if he knew from Bible prophecy whether Hitler was going to win or lose the war. Hasel gave him a Bible study on Daniel 2, and said Hitler was trying to unite Europe, and the prophecy said no one would ever succeed in doing that. So the officer started doing everything he could to conserve fuel for the company and its attached tanks and other vehicles. When the war was indeed lost and German army units had to retreat back to Germany over now hostile territory, most of them had to walk. But Hasel's company was one of the very few that had enough fuel left that they were able to drive back all the way, safely in their vehicles.

My pastor's aunt (Susy Hasel Mundy) wrote a book about this, published under the name, A Thousand Shall Fall, telling about her father's experiences (and her mother's and her family's back in Berlin) during WWII. It's available through Amazon. You can read a summary of the book there.

[ August 23, 2012, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]

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MrSquicky
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quote:
his was on CNBC, not known as a right wing source.
They're not known as being a reputable source of financial news either. CNBC op eds are a joke.
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Ron Lambert
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Of course, the best financial news is to be found on Fox News Business channel.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
The Roman empire was divided into the approximate "ten toes" of the modern nations of Europe.
You're including Russia in this one, based on the Hitler anecdote? Russia?
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Ron Lambert
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Tom, the Slavs, who founded Russia, were involved in dividing the Eastern part of the Roman Empire. Of course, Russia is regarded as a "Eurasian" country. But for about 40 years, Russia controlled Eastern Europe, and was confident it would one day take control of the West, as well.
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TomDavidson
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*laugh* It's amazing how far people are willing to go to cram something "approximate" into a prophecy.
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Blayne Bradley
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Your history is pathetic Ron, the Kaiser tried no such thing.

You also entirely have zero knowledge of the Iraqi military situation, or how the global arms trade works. The equipment the Iraqi's had were export variants using training penetrating rounds. The T-64's they had fared well against the Abrams.

Your history regarding Russia and the Russian cultural identity and motivations is also reflecting of a 3rd grade history education and also wrong.

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The Rabbit
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quote:
Tom, the Slavs, who founded Russia, were involved in dividing the Eastern part of the Roman Empire.
Ron, The Rus, who funded Russia, were Varangians (i.e. Norsemen) not Slavs. They were never part of the Roman Empire.
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The Rabbit
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Ron, Why are you ignoring the Ottoman Empire? It was one of the longest lasting empires in History it controlled all the territories of the Babylonian and Persian Empires including all the territories claimed by Eratz Israel. The Ottoman Empire controlled significantly more of the Roman territories than Napoleon or Hitler. How do they fit in to your prophecy?

Could Islam actually be the stone that will become a mountain that will fill the entire world?


P.S. It's kind of spooky how much better that fits with the prophecy in Daniel than anything I've heard from Christian Bible thumpers.

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King of Men
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quote:
he is reporting that the Euro is already a "zombie currency."
Er, yes, ok. What does this actually mean? Currencies, as a general rule, do not literally shamble about looking for "braaaaiiiins". So it must be intended as some sort of metaphor. How, then, can I test whether a currency is a "zombie"? Are there any other zombie currencies in the world, either currently or historically? What is he saying will actually happen?

This is a bit like claiming that the dollar is a happy currency, or the yen is angry. It may even be true, but unless the adjective is defined it's just a meaningless noise. It's impossible to actually discuss this until "zombie" is defined; what test does one apply to decide whether a currency is zombified? Until you know this there's no evidence you can go and look for.

Now, I suspect that the definition of "zombie currency" in this case is "currency associated with countries I dislike", which of course means that the thread title is inaccurate; in that sense the euro has been a zombie currency since it was created, and doesn't have to do any "turning into".

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Lyrhawn
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My guess is that "zombie" in this context means that the currency is basically dead but continues to live on despite that fact.

I've read several articles that put forth the same argument...albeit more professionally.

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The Rabbit
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quote:
Currencies, as a general rule, do not literally shamble about looking for "braaaaiiiins". So it must be intended as some sort of metaphor.
I'm in Germany right now and there are in fact reports of Euros roaming the streets sucking out peoples brains. The government is instructing people to remove all the currency from their wallets and return it to a bank or secure it in a vault. The news stations are warning people not to pick up any coins or bills they might find on the ground. There are concerns that Euro notes may be able to squeeze through cracks around doors and windows so no where is safe the the Euro Zombies.

I think the whole thing is a hoax. The Euros I have in my wallet are just lying there like normal bank notes so I just gonna leave them there. If I stop posting here, you'll all know what happened.

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Jeff C.
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If I had to guess, the author of that article is probably using "zombie" as a metaphor because of its popularity in recent media. He was probably like "Hmmm...how can I make this boring article about the Euro interesting? I know! Friggin' zombies, that's how!"

Duh

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Ron Lambert
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The stone in Daniel's prophecy that smashed the image on the feet and toes was said to be cut out without hands. Another words, humans would not do it. The prophecy plainly says that God would finally set up His everlasting kingdom over all the earth.

What are the chances of a prophet of the sixth century B.C.--or even of the second century, B.C., if you allow the poor scholarship of doubters of the Bible--would guess that the seemingly eternal Roman Empire would not be replaced by another major empire, like all the previous empires had been, but instead would be divided up into ten toes, that would persist until the very end of time? And that they would try to unite by intermarrying all the royal houses? And that they would never be united?

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Ron Lambert
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Here's an excerpt from a very interesting article by Wayne Allen Root, a classmate of Obama's, who like Obama graduated from Columbia University in the class of '83:

quote:
If anyone should have questions about Obama’s record at Columbia University, it’s me. You see, I’m Obama’s college classmate.

We both graduated Columbia University, Class of ’83. We were both Pre-Law and Political Science majors. And I thought I knew most everyone at Columbia. I certainly thought I’d heard of all of my fellow Political Science majors. But I never met Obama. Never saw him. Never even heard of him. And not one of my friends in the Class of '83 ever met him, saw him, or heard of him.

Worse, The Wall Street Journal reported in 2008 that Fox News randomly called 400 of our Columbia classmates and never found one who had ever met Obama. Strange set of circumstances, don’t you think?

Now all of this mystery could be easily dismissed if Obama released his Columbia transcripts to the media. But he never has. Even after serving as president for three years. Even after all the rumors and whispers that something in his college years is amiss. He still won’t unseal his records. Shouldn’t the media be as relentless in pursuit of Obama’s records as Romney’s tax returns?

The first question I’d ask is, if you had great grades, why would you seal your records? Who would hide straight A’s? So let’s assume Obama got straight C’s and D’s. Why not release the records? He’s president of the free world, for gosh sakes. He’s commander-in-chief of the U.S. military. Who’d care about some bad grades 30 years ago, right? Doesn’t that make the media suspicious? Something doesn’t add up. Something smells rotten about my invisible classmate at Columbia.

Secondly, if this is just about bad grades, how’d he get into Harvard Law School with bad grades? I had excellent grades, yet my Columbia guidance counselor told me I shouldn’t even bother to apply to Harvard Law because of the brutal competition. Yet my classmate got into the finest law school in the world with awful grades that he’s embarrassed about? How?

Third, it’s been in the news that classmates at Obama’s first college, Occidental, claimed he had awful grades at Occidental. So please tell me how he got into Columbia, one of America’s Top 5 universities? Not just got in, but transferred in. My understanding is that Ivy League schools only let in a handful of transfers each year. So why would they let in a kid with poor grades from an average college like Occidental? Strange.

Fourth, I’ve heard it rumored that Obama got a leg up by being admitted to Columbia as a foreign exchange student. Is that true? Did he hold a passport from Indonesia? Did he receive easier admission by portraying himself as a foreigner? Did he receive financial aid as a foreign student — something not available to true-blue American classmates like me?

I asked one of my lawyer buddies to call Columbia U. and ask the simple question, “Can foreigners get aid to go to college at Columbia?” The answer, “Yes, we have lots of aid for foreign students. They might be able to get their entire tuition paid and go to Columbia for free.”

So did Obama portray himself as a foreigner to get easy admission and a free ride? He was raised in Indonesia. Did his mother ever change him back to a U.S. citizen? Or was this all too easy because he still had Indonesian citizenship and passport? If so, is he qualified to be president of the United States today? I don’t know. But shouldn’t someone in the media be interested in asking these questions?

And lastly, why do his classmates at Columbia not remember Obama? Was he a ghost? Did he never show up at class?


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Rakeesh
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Yeah, who would ever have guessed that royalty and aristocracy would intermarry with each other to shore up alliances but would, ultimately, prove only somewhat successful? Haven't been frequent examples of that throughout history, no. Wait. The opposite of that.

Setting aside the fact-one of those words you're so quick to misuse-that one of those 'toes' was actually on someone else's foot entirely, see Russia. Or that no one, and far from all of them, even, believe in this garbage you're spewing unless they are already strongly conditioned to believe it. Or, or, or.

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MrSquicky
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quote:
The stone in Daniel's prophecy that smashed the image on the feet and toes was said to be cut out without hands.
But that's perfect. Osman I, founder of the Ottoman empire, also pioneered a method of stone cutting using streams of water, literally cutting out stones without hands.
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MrSquicky
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
If I had to guess, the author of that article is probably using "zombie" as a metaphor because of its popularity in recent media. He was probably like "Hmmm...how can I make this boring article about the Euro interesting? I know! Friggin' zombies, that's how!"

Duh

People have talked about zombie banks (i.e. ones that have a negative net worth but continue to operate) since the S&L collapse (brought to you by Republican led deregulation by the way) in the '80s. It became very common again after the 2008 crash.

That's almost definitely what the author was trying to evoke.

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King of Men
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Evocation is fine for poetry and RPGs. In discussions of finance I like precision. To say that a zombie currency is like a zombie bank just piles metaphor upon metaphor; now you have to explain, not only what a zombie bank is, but also how to compare a currency and a bank. And the same applies to saying that a currency is "dead". What test do I apply to find a dead currency? Let's be specific: Is the Roman denarius dead? Why or why not? What about the pound sterling?

I'm reminded of Orwell's essay "Politics and the English language", in which he gives the example of then-modern literary criticism:

quote:
When one critic writes, “The outstanding feature of Mr. X’s work is its living quality,” while another writes, “The immediately striking thing about Mr. X’s work is its peculiar deadness,”
What is a dead currency?
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Teshi
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Oh man, this thread is so crazy.

quote:
What are the chances of a prophet blah blah blah
Given all the possible interpretations of the prophecy over 2000 years and its hilariously vague and all-encompassing language ("It will be strong, yet fragile"), the chances are probably freaking astronomical you would have found a way to make it applicable.

Even if you accept that he is talking about nations, your insistance that this dude was writing in the 6th century hardly helps as by that time the formerly semi-glorious Roman Empire was floundering across Europe, having told Britain at the beginning of the 5th century to start fending for itself.

2nd Century, things were better and perhaps you could more successfully argue that a writer might not be ready to predict its fall. But given the history of the empires of the Akkadians, Sumerians, various Egyptian empires etc. all presumably known as part of history just as Rome is part of our history it wouldn't be such a reach at all to suggest that "all empires fall" and wouldn't be such leap at all to suggest even that empires rarely emerge in the same form as they were before, if at all.

And even this massive concession has to go on the shady assumption first that the Euro is an attempt to unite the part-continent moreso than any other more successful or more unsuccessful part of the European Union's many purposes and legal systems. After all, the European Union itself, much wider in its scope than the Euro's usage, is still standing. Why is that less important than the Euro to your prophecy?

quote:
And that they would try to unite by intermarrying all the royal houses?
In the past, my dear Ron, marrying into another royal or important house was the primary way of sealing a political or international deal. I don't see you prophet talking about currencies, or the wars which feature very heavily in your argument. Why not? Why did he only talk about the kind of political mingling that occurred in his day, if he was a prophet?

So I will repeat: What is this I don't even. I just met you and this is crazy.

Also: Please clearly state the ten countries and/or entities that you percieve to be the ten "toes" of the prophecy.

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King of Men
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quote:
divided up into ten toes, that would persist until the very end of time?
So right now there are way more than ten states in what used to be the territory of the Roman Empire. Maybe time has ended already and I didn't notice? Man, nobody ever tells me about the important stuff.

On the other hand, what are the chances that someone, having decided to write metaphorically about the issues of his day that somehow involved one thing becoming ten (where ten might, in the context, also mean "more than I can easily count"), would decide to use the image of feet becoming toes?

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
What are the chances of a prophet of the sixth century B.C.--or even of the second century, B.C., if you allow the poor scholarship of doubters of the Bible--would guess that the seemingly eternal Roman Empire would not be replaced by another major empire, like all the previous empires had been,

The Persian Empire, equally major by the age's interconnected populous standards, did not get replaced by another major empire. It fractured into smaller empires which experienced wide ranges of ascent and descent and overthrow. This was similarly true of most other major empires before it, which would usually implode and fracture in a period of economic collapse that left them unable to manage conquered territories.

So your entire line of reasoning is remarkably wrong because you are wrong about history. And will probably never acknowledge it. Everrrrr.

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Teshi
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Well, assuming he was writing in the 2nd century, with Rome very strong and dominant, the image of feet is one of strength, I suppose.

Even if he was writing in the 6th, the long view could be one of division.

Given it's a metaphor, I'm willing to accept that Daniel was saying "the Roman Empire will break up into small pieces and never reform" but that's hardly groundbreaking and unexpected prophecy. I bet that's what everyone was saying as the Empire crumbled around them.

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Samprimary
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it's also not groundbreaking and unexpected because anyone with even a dim view of history had an understanding of what had happened before. To the achaemenids, to everything else all right up into the fertile crescent ..
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Teshi
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Exactly. I can't think of any successfully reformed Empire.
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Teshi:
Exactly. I can't think of any successfully reformed Empire.

China maybe during the Ming dynasty?
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King of Men
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quote:
Originally posted by Teshi:
Well, assuming he was writing in the 2nd century, with Rome very strong and dominant, the image of feet is one of strength, I suppose.

Even if he was writing in the 6th, the long view could be one of division.

Given it's a metaphor, I'm willing to accept that Daniel was saying "the Roman Empire will break up into small pieces and never reform" but that's hardly groundbreaking and unexpected prophecy. I bet that's what everyone was saying as the Empire crumbled around them.

It appears to me that there is some confusion here. I believe Ron believes that the prophecy in question was written in the sixth century before Christ, at a time when the Roman Empire didn't even exist, nor was even the Republic particularly noticeable. So the argument "Rome must have seemed unstoppable" doesn't really apply to that. However, there are scholars who believe that the "prophecy" in question was written in the second century after Christ, and retrofitted to look good. It seems to me that Ron is criticising that view by pointing out how unstoppable Rome must have looked around the time of the British revolt, Persian war, fifteen-year plague with a thirty percent mortality rate, beginning of the German Volkerwanderung, and other well-known signs of tranquility. Obviously nobody in these circumstances would try to cheat by "post-predicting" the fall of the Empire; they'd just make their alleged prophecy look stupid. Or so I take Ron to be saying. He did accidentally write "2nd century BC" rather than "AD", which perhaps accounts for some of the confusion.
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dkw
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Actually, I'm pretty sure Ron's "doubters of the Bible" are mainline Biblical scholars who believe that the book was written (in it's final form) in the second century BC.
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King of Men
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Well, depending on where you are in the second century BCE, that puts you in the period of the Gracchi revolts, the decline of the smallholder class due to the many foreign wars, the revolt of Spartacus, the Cimbrian invasion, and the Second, Third, and Fourth Macedonian wars, to take just a few examples. It's also well before Israel was ruled by the Romans, who didn't conquer the area until 63 BCE. A Jewish writer of that period should be much more likely to concern himself with the Seleucids that, you know, actually taxed him.
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dkw
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Between 167 and 164, to be exact. But that would be those wacky scholars who think that prophets were writing to their contemporaries about things that were happening in their own time, not leaving coded messages for people thousands of years in the future.
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Lyrhawn
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This thread has taken a weird turn.
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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by dkw:
But that would be those wacky scholars who think that prophets were writing to their contemporaries about things that were happening in their own time, not leaving coded messages for people thousands of years in the future.

Not that they are mutually exclusive, of course.
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dkw
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And not that they would be irrelevant for later generations even without coded messages.
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rivka
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Also true.
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Mucus
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by Teshi:
Exactly. I can't think of any successfully reformed Empire.

China maybe during the Ming dynasty?
Three times at least:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Territories_of_Dynasties_in_China.gif

Han -> Three Kingdoms -> Sui/Tang
Tang -> Bunch of states -> Ming
Ming -> Qing/Warlords -> PRC

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Mr. Y
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
The Roman empire was divided into the approximate "ten toes" of the modern nations of Europe. Daniel's prophecy said that they would never be united, even though they would try, even by "mingling the seed of men."

....in other words, humans would not do it.

Yeah... We's just waiting for the Buggers. [Big Grin]
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Teshi
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quote:
It appears to me that there is some confusion here. I believe Ron believes that the prophecy in question was written in the sixth century before Christ, at a time when the Roman Empire didn't even exist, nor was even the Republic particularly noticeable.
Oh, heh. I assumed it was written AD because it's claimed to be about Rome. When you assume...

quote:
However, there are scholars who believe that the "prophecy" in question was written in the second century after Christ, and retrofitted to look good. It seems to me that Ron is criticising that view by pointing out how unstoppable Rome must have looked around the time of the British revolt, Persian war, fifteen-year plague with a thirty percent mortality rate, beginning of the German Volkerwanderung, and other well-known signs of tranquility. Obviously nobody in these circumstances would try to cheat by "post-predicting" the fall of the Empire; they'd just make their alleged prophecy look stupid. Or so I take Ron to be saying.
Okay, I'm clearly not a historian of Rome at all (and the majority of my knowledge is archeological rather than historical) but my assertion that Rome is stronger in the 2nd century CE/AD is obviously based on the same incomplete information as Ron's. From our limited information POV it seems as if Rome is relatively powerful in the 2nd Century, but you're saying that-- from the point of view of someone who knows the era-- it probably still felt pretty unstable and so it wasn't much of a stretch to say that it would fall (even though it didn't collapse for the next three centuries, or thereabouts).

So the idea is, if I've got this straight, that the Daniel 2 bit is written in the 2nd century AD but as if it is said in the 6th century BC, predicting these empires and kingdoms:

quote:

Head of gold - Babylon
Breast and arms of silver- Medo-Persia
Belly and thighs of brass- Hellenistic Greece
Legs of iron - Rome
Feet partly of iron and partly of molded clay - The divided Roman Empire

or

- Babylon
- Medo-Persia
- Greece
- Pagan and Papal Rome
- Nowadays

or

- The gold head - Babylon
- The silver breast and arms - Medo-Persia
- The copper belly and thighs - Greece
- The iron legs - Rome
- The feet partly of iron and partly of molded clay - The Anglo-American World Power

or

Head of gold - Babylonian Empire
Breast and arms of silver - Median Empire
Belly and thighs of copper - Persian Empire
Legs of iron - Seleucid Empire
Feet partly of iron and partly of molded clay - The Seleucids and the Ptolemies


I understand now. This is a "descent of civilization" thing-- "Nobody will ever be as golden as you, Nebby."

I don't have really anything to add to this thread (I think I've done enough assuming) except I don't think that the Euro or the European Union are really intended to be imperial in any way, so I think Daniel's prophecy is safe in this case.

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by Teshi:
Exactly. I can't think of any successfully reformed Empire.

China maybe during the Ming dynasty?
Three times at least:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Territories_of_Dynasties_in_China.gif

Han -> Three Kingdoms -> Sui/Tang
Tang -> Bunch of states -> Ming
Ming -> Qing/Warlords -> PRC

*nods*
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Jeff C.
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
This thread has taken a weird turn.

This is Hatrack, remember?
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PSI Teleport
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Rabbit: Most of the Bible-thumpers I know do think Islam is the mountain.
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Samprimary
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in this thread: prophecy talk by seventh day adventists
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Rakeesh
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Anyone else claiming to predict the future: "Alright, how many red lights will I hit on my way to work tomorrow?"

Religious prophecy to outsiders: "Your scripture says this city would be destroyed, and it plainly wasn't."

Religious prophecies to (many) believers: "Well this one is vague and anyway, clearly intended as metaphor. This other one over here is also vague, but it came true, so it wasn't metaphor but prophecy. And not vague at all when you apply the appropriate scholarship and interpretation."

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Kwea
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Here's an excerpt from a very interesting article by Wayne Allen Root, a classmate of Obama's, who like Obama graduated from Columbia University in the class of '83:

quote:
If anyone should have questions about Obama’s record at Columbia University, it’s me. You see, I’m Obama’s college classmate.

We both graduated Columbia University, Class of ’83. We were both Pre-Law and Political Science majors. And I thought I knew most everyone at Columbia. I certainly thought I’d heard of all of my fellow Political Science majors. But I never met Obama. Never saw him. Never even heard of him. And not one of my friends in the Class of '83 ever met him, saw him, or heard of him.

Worse, The Wall Street Journal reported in 2008 that Fox News randomly called 400 of our Columbia classmates and never found one who had ever met Obama. Strange set of circumstances, don’t you think?

Now all of this mystery could be easily dismissed if Obama released his Columbia transcripts to the media. But he never has. Even after serving as president for three years. Even after all the rumors and whispers that something in his college years is amiss. He still won’t unseal his records. Shouldn’t the media be as relentless in pursuit of Obama’s records as Romney’s tax returns?

The first question I’d ask is, if you had great grades, why would you seal your records? Who would hide straight A’s? So let’s assume Obama got straight C’s and D’s. Why not release the records? He’s president of the free world, for gosh sakes. He’s commander-in-chief of the U.S. military. Who’d care about some bad grades 30 years ago, right? Doesn’t that make the media suspicious? Something doesn’t add up. Something smells rotten about my invisible classmate at Columbia.

Secondly, if this is just about bad grades, how’d he get into Harvard Law School with bad grades? I had excellent grades, yet my Columbia guidance counselor told me I shouldn’t even bother to apply to Harvard Law because of the brutal competition. Yet my classmate got into the finest law school in the world with awful grades that he’s embarrassed about? How?

Third, it’s been in the news that classmates at Obama’s first college, Occidental, claimed he had awful grades at Occidental. So please tell me how he got into Columbia, one of America’s Top 5 universities? Not just got in, but transferred in. My understanding is that Ivy League schools only let in a handful of transfers each year. So why would they let in a kid with poor grades from an average college like Occidental? Strange.

Fourth, I’ve heard it rumored that Obama got a leg up by being admitted to Columbia as a foreign exchange student. Is that true? Did he hold a passport from Indonesia? Did he receive easier admission by portraying himself as a foreigner? Did he receive financial aid as a foreign student — something not available to true-blue American classmates like me?

I asked one of my lawyer buddies to call Columbia U. and ask the simple question, “Can foreigners get aid to go to college at Columbia?” The answer, “Yes, we have lots of aid for foreign students. They might be able to get their entire tuition paid and go to Columbia for free.”

So did Obama portray himself as a foreigner to get easy admission and a free ride? He was raised in Indonesia. Did his mother ever change him back to a U.S. citizen? Or was this all too easy because he still had Indonesian citizenship and passport? If so, is he qualified to be president of the United States today? I don’t know. But shouldn’t someone in the media be interested in asking these questions?

And lastly, why do his classmates at Columbia not remember Obama? Was he a ghost? Did he never show up at class?


LOL....so you idea of research is some moron who claimed he knew every person at Columbia at that time. A guy who's entire argument is "I don't like Obama, so lets see if I can speculate as to why he does what he does....assuming everyone else in the country is even more stupid than I am and hasn't checked this crap out 200 times."

I know you don't actually hold anyone who agrees with you to any sort of intellectual or moral standard, Ron, but this is a little transparent for even you....

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Lyrhawn
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Funny, if Romney managed to find a way to sneak into a university he shouldn't have gotten into, and got around certain expenses - all legally, the GOP would claim it's that sort of entrepreneurial spirit that we need in a president. It's the the argument he uses to defend his tax behavior.

By the by, off the top of my head, I can only name maybe a dozen people I went to college with. You could easily call 400 people in the class I graduated with who'd have no clue who I was.

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