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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » North Korea Missiles (Page 4)

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Author Topic: North Korea Missiles
Stone_Wolf_
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I disagree...Blayne has something to offer to discussion. But I do feel that there comes a time to disengage the conversation when and if the discussion turns into an circular, painful argument. But that is hardly specific to Blayne.

One thing I can say for Blayne, that if one can be judged by your enemies, Blayne is top notch stuff.

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Parkour
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then you obviously can't be judged by your enemies.

seriously.

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Orincoro
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Yeah, that doesn't exactly make sense. Anyway, SW, Blayne is not my enemy. I have no enemies that I know of. Perhaps he thinks he is, but really, Blayne would have to level up several classes to engage on a level with many of the people who post here, and though I am not modest, I need not even mention myself.
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Rakeesh
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Oh, I don't know. There's a good bit of 'effing with Blayne because he's Blayne' entrenched. I don't try hard enough to avoid that as I should, but I do succeed sometimes...but then, even though that's a factor, it's also tied up into...well...Blayne again.

This conversation ended up with Blayne smugly sneering at and mocking *BlackBlade*, Stone_Wolf. I can see why you'd be prone to sympathize with him as he is often antagonized by two people you're hardly fond of (seriously, man, the enemies bit, I'm not sure if you wanted anyone else to notice it was a shot as well as a compliment, or what), but it's not just the people you don't like.

Politics, current events, military discussions and history, economics, they're all topics where it is *really tough* to maintain a lengthy discussion with Blayne and dispute something without having it descend to an unpleasant level, and if you throw in China or Russia it becomes effectively impossible. It's not just the people you already don't like. BlackBlade isn't just known for being a nice guy, he has actually posted about his philosophy about even small courtesies making the world a better place-to you and I, no less, and you disagreed with him too!

So I suppose my thought is this: if you feel bad Blayne might be getting dogpiled, maybe tell him-not that it's done much good-not to treat even the nicest people like they're jackasses if they dare to disagree on a sacred subject.

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Blayne Bradley
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quote:

Blayne smugly sneering at and mocking *BlackBlade*

I took up a deliberate mocking tone for specific portions of his argument which is a valid part of argumentation as its meant to provide emphasis and highlight logical inconsistencies. But I dispute "sneering" that's a complete fabrication.

quote:

Politics, current events, military discussions and history, economics, they're all topics where it is *really tough* to maintain a lengthy discussion with Blayne and dispute something without having it descend to an unpleasant level, and if you throw in China or Russia it becomes effectively impossible.

This isn't the whole story, if people gave a reasoned argument and then I just randomly snap at people this may resemble what happens, can you show a recent example of where this happens?

quote:

So I suppose my thought is this: if you feel bad Blayne might be getting dogpiled, maybe tell him-not that it's done much good-not to treat even the nicest people like they're jackasses if they dare to disagree on a sacred subject.

I've never "snapped" or whatever or said anything of the sort for "disagreeing", again, can you show me when this happens?
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Tittles:
I would pay cash money to see Blayne work customer service somewhere.

"NO sir it is an OBJECTIVE FACT that this item is not in resalable condition. Anyone interested in being intellectually honest could see this. Fine if you never come back to this store that will obviously be you conceding."

I did work with Rogers Canada for a while and was very good at my job at helping people with their problems, just not very good at shilling for Rogers and selling their products.
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
[QB] I took up a deliberate mocking tone for specific portions of his argument which is a valid part of argumentation...

Ok. There are reasons to disagree with your reasoning here, but it's what you believe.

quote:
But I dispute "sneering" that's a complete fabrication.
A complete fabrication? You mocked him, by your admission, but the idea that you sneered (and textually speaking, this is just a semantic quibble about the degree and flavor of mocking involved here, as is the difference between mocking someone and his arguments- particularly in this case, as you made no substantive difference between argument and person in your comments), is a complete fabrication? Complete? As in total? As in based in no part on reality? Really?

I understand that this is you back talking your way out of having crossed over into behavior you perhaps regret, by making yourself appear to have only been trying to express yourself, and making your behavior, and the way it appears to others, to have been deliberate, is a way of doing this. But please, know that we know you're doing it. Know that this is not difficult to understand for anyone else here. That you regret, if not what you said, then at least the consequences of having said it; thus the weird non-apology mea culpa of admitted you mocked someone, while also claiming that mockery is part of argument. A claim you would *never* make if you hadn't already been called out for mocking someone.


quote:
I took up a deliberate mocking tone for specific portions of his argument which is a valid part of argumentation
For a person sensitive to mockery, as I think you often demonstrate yourself to be, I wonder that the irony of your saying this doesn't occur to you, in saying it. And I wonder that you do not worry that this gives license to anyone here, who you view as your tormentor, a free hand to use a mocking tone with you, given that doing so is apparently valid, as an argumentative strategy.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
I took up a deliberate mocking tone for specific portions of his argument which is a valid part of argumentation as its meant to provide emphasis and highlight logical inconsistencies. But I dispute "sneering" that's a complete fabrication.

Alright, this first bit is flat-out wrong. I don't even believe you believe it's true, that deliberate mockery is a tool of 'valid argumentation'. If someone told you that, they lied. The second bit as has been noted...well I'm not sure how anyone can be expected to see the difference between deliberate mocking and sneering.

quote:
This isn't the whole story, if people gave a reasoned argument and then I just randomly snap at people this may resemble what happens, can you show a recent example of where this happens?

This thread is amply supplied with examples of both, towards both BlackBlade and Lyrhawn. They were pointed out-politely and at length-by them when they happened. You denied all accusations repeatedly and continued with your 'valid argumentation' of sneering mockery. In years of HR, I don't believe anyone has ever been able to convince you that you were wrong on an idea or a tone in one of your sacred topics. If you object to this, don't just demand an example-offer one yourself where you DID cop to a mistake or apologize for an insult on one of these topics. I'd be surprised if you even tried at this point, and didn't just assert that without an example you don't hafta.

quote:
I've never "snapped" or whatever or said anything of the sort for "disagreeing", again, can you show me when this happens?
This is what I'm talking about. *Never*? I can't think of anyone who has never snapped at someone for disagreeing with them on am important topic. I'm not sure if you actually believe this about yourself, or if it's not just another bit of 'valid argumentation', to start high and come down as time passes.
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Stone_Wolf_
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I need to make my position clear.

I have been defending Blayne in this and other threads not because I believe him to be right. Blayne I believe you go off and depart from reasonable discussion into hostile argument much too easily and often. That is on you.

But, everyone here knows it, and several people here have been taunting Blayne and provoking him, with the thin veneer of "for his own good." And this behavior I have a problem with. One person might be able to make this argument, but add in a dog pile, and even further that those dogpiling have a less then perfect rep and it all adds up to bullying.

Props to Rakeesh for not.

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BlackBlade
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Blayne: I must say whoever gave you the notion that mocking is just a standard tool in a discussion to emphasize logical inconsistencies, doesn't know what they're talking about.

Perhaps if we were rival attorneys trying to defeat the other, that might be an acceptable way to secure victory. But I don't look at a discussion a chance to win or lose, I look at it as a way to exchange ideas and perhaps leave smarter, or at least more informed.

I would still engage you in conversation if you mocked me, so long as you backed off from doing it and recognized it as a mistake. I won't if it's a standard tool in your kit.

This would probably only serve to reinforce your, "I'm always right attitude" but I did my own research and MacArthur himself denies ever considering nukes as something he would use against the Chinese. He felt nukes should only be used against conventional military targets. Truman insisted that MacArthur had asked for nuclear authorization, but admitted to having no evidence to support his claim.

So already I am less comfortable with my initial claim, but not entirely dissuaded. I hope you learn one day that people who can do that are actually better people than those who *know* they are right all the time.

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Blayne Bradley
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quote:

I would still engage you in conversation if you mocked me, so long as you backed off from doing it and recognized it as a mistake. I won't if it's a standard tool in your kit.

After thinking on it the last couple of days, and considering your high reasonableness I do agree that in hindsight it is not the best option, I am sorry for taking that tone and apologize and I won't do it again.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
But, everyone here knows it, and several people here have been taunting Blayne and provoking him, with the thin veneer of "for his own good." And this behavior I have a problem with. One person might be able to make this argument, but add in a dog pile, and even further that those dogpiling have a less then perfect rep and it all adds up to bullying.
Yeah, that's well and good, but I hope you realize your inclusion of a shot to the people *you* don't like (the enemies bit) mitigates your claim to being concerned with bullying?

Why is it bullying? We're all equal here, yes? No one can shove someone into the dirt and take their lunch money here. Shoulders can't be clipped. It's words. If the 'bullying' takes the form of plinking at Blayne until he flips out, well, sure, the guys plinking should stop but who is really being helped by not saying 'dude stop flipping out!' I dont claim they're actually trying to help, and admit to some skepticism that your defense might not have as much to do with disliking them as it does helping him. But there's the guys being jerks, and there's a guy being a jerk to everone, even the people who are famously not jerks.

---------

quote:
After thinking on it the last couple of days, and considering your high reasonableness I do agree that in hindsight it is not the best option, I am sorry for taking that tone and apologize and I won't do it again.
Good on you man. Props. I know it's not easy saying that on this constellation of topics, with the people watching who are watching. Respect.

That said...seriously, you'll be held to that, and if you think jerks are being jerky now, well, that's probably not much compared to what would result if direct mockery were an argumentation tool again.

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Blayne Bradley
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quote:

Why is it bullying? We're all equal here, yes? No one can shove someone into the dirt and take their lunch money here. Shoulders can't be clipped. It's words.

And people on facebook have committed suicide due to "just words" I'm sure you'll realize that this isn't a very thoroughly thought out line of reasoning.

quote:

That said...seriously, you'll be held to that, and if you think jerks are being jerky now, well, that's probably not much compared to what would result if direct mockery were an argumentation tool again.

Likewise while I understand that you're probably saying this as a hypothetical if/maybe whatever, I do kinda sorta roll my eyes at the notion that good behavior should be predicated on something vaguely resembling a vague threat depending on the tone, time of day and the fluctuations of the universal constant.
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Stone_Wolf_
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I must be misunderstanding you, as it seems as you are saying that only assault can be bullying, and that is so clearly not true, I must have missed something.

As to your assertion that this is less about Blayne and more about my own axes to grind...you are partially correct, and partially incorrect. If you read my landmark, you know I was bullied my entire time in school, so, as such I have a particular sensitivity to it. So I tend to stand up when I perceive bullying. So more about my issues then any real solidarity with Blayne. But to the assertion that I'm just taking shots at ny enemies list, I am not.

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Rakeesh
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quote:
And people on facebook have committed suicide due to "just words" I'm sure you'll realize that this isn't a very thoroughly thought out line of reasoning.

Well if you could link me to even a single instance of someone committing suicide over back and forth trades of insults over current events discussions, then I'll cheerfully withdraw that remark.

Until then, though, perhaps you ought to reconsider just who might not have thought carefully on that matter.

quote:
Likewise while I understand that you're probably saying this as a hypothetical if/maybe whatever, I do kinda sorta roll my eyes at the notion that good behavior should be predicated on something vaguely resembling a vague threat depending on the tone, time of day and the fluctuations of the universal constant.
That was as much a threat as what Orincoro did earlier was a concession. But since it wasn't clear: I have more than a little doubt this resolution not to turn to direct mockery as an argumentation tool will have much staying power. In an effort to give it more stamina I alluded to what you claim to wish to avoid. As for me it's about 6:5 weary annoyance and resigned amusement.

-----

quote:
I must be misunderstanding you, as it seems as you are saying that only assault can be bullying, and that is so clearly not true, I must have missed something.
In order to reach that conclusion, you'd need to think my remarks were the sum total of my thoughts on the question 'what is bullying?' I don't believe I said or suggested anything that would point to that. The dirt and shoulders bit were only common, easy examples, not an exhaustive list.

quote:
As to your assertion that this is less about Blayne and more about my own axes to grind...you are partially correct, and partially incorrect. If you read my landmark, you know I was bullied my entire time in school, so, as such I have a particular sensitivity to it. So I tend to stand up when I perceive bullying. So more about my issues then any real solidarity with Blayne. But to the assertion that I'm just taking shots at ny enemies list, I am not.
I didn't assert you were only taking shots at your enemies. I don't think I even used the word enemies, except in reference to your own remarks. I only pointed out that the aside to pause to take a shot at the people you didn't like sort of weakened your claim to a high-minded defense against bullying. But anyway, how is what's happened here bullying? Is it because multiple people were being critical of Blayne? Or what, exactly? I mean, have you read the thread? Does context count for nothing, or is all that's necessary for the word bullying to apply is for Samprimary or Orincorono to appear to he mean to someone? This isn't your school, and you aren't the only one with a history on the wrong side of bullying. You're cheapening the term, and the not uncommon suggestion that you're standing up against bullies is...irksome.
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:

Well if you could link me to even a single instance of someone committing suicide over back and forth trades of insults over current events discussions, then I'll cheerfully withdraw that remark.

Cheerfully shifting of the goalposts aside....

Your original statement.

quote:

Why is it bullying? We're all equal here, yes? No one can shove someone into the dirt and take their lunch money here. Shoulders can't be clipped. It's words.

"It's Words."

quote:

In order to reach that conclusion, you'd need to think my remarks were the sum total of my thoughts on the question 'what is bullying?' I don't believe I said or suggested anything that would point to that. The dirt and shoulders bit were only common, easy examples, not an exhaustive list.

You clearly made a certain claim, if you had more thoughts that might better clarify your point that may otherwise lead to an entirely different conclusion than the one you intended, than you need to be upfront and write the claim you mean to make, not the one that only partially upholds what you mean but can be easily seen to mean something else.

Whether you feel I bring it on myself, or the conversation is deserving of the label of bullying isn't entirely relevant, here's the definition from wikipedia:

quote:

Cyberbullying is defined in legal glossaries as
actions that use information and communication technologies to support deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior by an individual or group, that is intended to harm another or others.
use of communication technologies for the intention of harming another person
use of internet service and mobile technologies such as web pages and discussion groups as well as instant messaging or SMS text messaging with the intention of harming another person.
Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications that seek to intimidate, control, manipulate, put down, falsely discredit, or humiliate the recipient. The actions are deliberate, repeated, and hostile behavior intended to harm another. Cyberbullying has been defined by The National Crime Prevention Council: “When the Internet, cell phones or other devices are used to send or post text or images intended to hurt or embarrass another person."

And,

quote:

Cyberbullying is perpetrated through Harassment, Cyberstalking, Denigration (sending or posting cruel rumors and falsehoods to damage reputation and friendships), Impersonation, Exclusion (intentionally and cruelly excluding someone from an online group)

Going into varying threads just to negatively engage a certain poster with a clear grudge, is bannable on several forums if I may mention.

[ April 01, 2013, 03:57 AM: Message edited by: Blayne Bradley ]

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Stone_Wolf_
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Rakeeeh...I want to sat that I have noted and appreciated your efforts to be civil and positive...not just with me, but in general. That being said, all I can do is disagree with your assessment. You note that "jerks are being jerky" but think that calling it bullying "lessons the word"...well golly gee...what line must be crossed in your book that turns jerkiness in "real" bullying?

As to this...
quote:
In order to reach that conclusion, you'd need to think my remarks were the sum total of my thoughts on the question 'what is bullying?' I don't believe I said or suggested anything that would point to that. The dirt and shoulders bit were only common, easy examples, not an exhaustive list.
I...shoot man...I'm having trouble here. I tried really hard not to simply point out how wrong you were last round...please don't dig in as if I was the one who said something undefendable here.
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Orincoro
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S_W, perhaps you should stop using Blayne, as you so often do, as a proxy for your discontent with other people. You frequently "defend" him, without offering any defense of anything he does, because you don't like others whom he argues with. This does him no favors.
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Tittles
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I think an important aspect to consider is that we're better off without a person who would kill themselves over a mean Facebook posting.

So there's that.

Orincoro you gonna get thrown in the can, you keep talking to Judge Wolf like that.

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Rakeesh
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Blayne, did you even read the story you linked? About the only thing it has in common with what is happening here is that both involved the Internet.

Now, I can see how what I said might-might-lead someone to conclude that I was saying 'the only way bullying can happen is through physical violence'. Frankly that interpretation smacks of looking for something and seizing on it, but I'll admit it wasn't well communicated. At this point all I can say is that no, I don't think that bullying cannot take place verbally and point out that I didn't say so.

quote:
You clearly made a certain claim, if you had more thoughts that might better clarify your point that may otherwise lead to an entirely different conclusion than the one you intended, than you need to be upfront and write the claim you mean to make, not the one that only partially upholds what you mean but can be easily seen to mean something else.


The claim I made was that this here isn't bullying. You took my reasons-one of which you completely, unsurprisingly omitted (that is the utter equality here)-and turned it into a blanket statement on bullying in general.

quote:
Going into varying threads just to negatively engage a certain poster with a clear grudge, is bannable on several forums if I may mention.

Blayne, to what extent to you really wish to discuss which posters are doing what bannable things, exactly? Or are we just supposed to forget about the not-unheard-of shouting, profanity-laden posts of yours? As for various threads...I don't understand. Do you own discussions on China and North Korea, or something?

Here's the thing: you've chased away most of the people who might otherwise be willing to engage in conversation on a variety of topics, leaving you with the people that are left. Yeah, they do like busting on you. I wonder to what extent that has *anything at all* to do with your own behavior too?

------------

Stone_Wolf,

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rakeeeh...I want to sat that I have noted and appreciated your efforts to be civil and positive...not just with me, but in general. That being said, all I can do is disagree with your assessment. You note that "jerks are being jerky" but think that calling it bullying "lessons the word"...well golly gee...what line must be crossed in your book that turns jerkiness in "real" bullying?

...meaning what, exactly? That before I wasn't civil and positive in general? That's the kind of remark I'm talking about, right alongside the 'Blayne's enemies' bit.

As for what I meant about bullying, I was referring to your willingness to throw that word out there very, very quickly. But if you're defining bullying as someone being a jerk, then yes, I absolutely do think you're diminishing the word to the point where it loses most of its meaning.

As for what might cross the line, well 'golly gee' there are a variety of ways that could happen, and many of them could take place in a text format. But it hasn't happened here. Calling it bullying here actually diminishes Blayne, because he is an equal here. If he doesn't like what Samprimary or Orincoro are saying to him, he could in short order see to it that it doesn't happen here. He could even get the public disapproval of them that he seems to want quite a lot, and that wouldn't be hard either. But he won't drop that 'you said something I didn't like, so I get to fly off the handle' ideology, or at least he hasn't yet.

quote:
I...shoot man...I'm having trouble here. I tried really hard not to simply point out how wrong you were last round...please don't dig in as if I was the one who said something undefendable here.
By all means, please do. 'Undefendable'? Goodness.

---------

quote:
S_W, perhaps you should stop using Blayne, as you so often do, as a proxy for your discontent with other people. You frequently "defend" him, without offering any defense of anything he does, because you don't like others whom he argues with. This does him no favors.
This right here. Frankly I don't often even see you participating in a discussion on North Korea, or China, or Russia, but that is only an impression. What I did see here was you labeling Blayne 'top notch stuff' on account of who his 'enemies' are.

Now I suppose it's possible you meant that his enemies (such a silly word in this context) were really high-quality dudes and it reflected well on Blayne for being their opponents, but given that you were clearly speaking of Samprimary and Orincoro and potentially myself, I have a difficult time believing it was anything other than 'man, those guys are such freakin' jerks, Blayne, I'm right there with you'. I still don't understand how you think you can toss that sort of remark in there and still be taken seriously as a committed defender against bullying.

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Blayne Bradley
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quote:

This right here. Frankly I don't often even see you participating in a discussion on North Korea, or China, or Russia, but that is only an impression. What I did see here was you labeling Blayne 'top notch stuff' on account of who his 'enemies' are.

If the standard of who should be allowed to defend me within the context of the thread is limited to those who partake in the discussion, shouldn't that also reflect a certain something on individuals whose purpose to join the fray is not to partake in the discussion?

quote:

At this point all I can say is that no, I don't think that bullying cannot take place verbally and point out that I didn't say so.

Okay, then lets look at below:

quote:

The claim I made was that this here isn't bullying. You took my reasons-one of which you completely, unsurprisingly omitted (that is the utter equality here)-and turned it into a blanket statement on bullying in general.

How does the equality matter? You never substantiated this except through "but what's going on isn't physical" as supporting evidence, which you just agreed isn't relevant as to what constitutes bullying. I don't see a lack of equality being the key distinguishing factor in any of the psych journals I've looked up, or in the definition I've posted; I didn't omit it, but included it just had no bearing on what is actually being discussed.

If we agree that bullying may be non physical than it must be possible for bullying to be psychological and if bullying may be psychological how does equal standing mitigate that the actions are still intended to harass, to cause harm, to denigrate, to embarrass, to put down, to false discredit, spreading slander, to troll, to exclude, to humiliate and more?

Are you saying that even these actions can and do happen, that because in your mind there is equal standing (being an online forum?) that this precludes the above to be bullying?

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Stone_Wolf_
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Orincoro...I may be defending Blayne for my own sensitivities, but I assure you that I am not using him as a foil. I am very out spoken and when I have something to say to you or Samp, or El Jay or Rakeeeh or Parkour, or Tittles I bloody well say it! I get why people are down on Blayne, but messing with him will not help, only hurt him. I was there myself.

Rakeeeh...I meant, with the enemies comment that all the HR jerks were circling, taking shots. And I wasn't including you in that btw. Again, it's not about my sympathizing, or singing my own praises but simply pointing out that those acting like jerks...are.

As to my compliment...damn straight that's what I meant. Just as yours to Blayne did. That being said I meant it (as I assume you did to Blayne) as a pat on the back for good work.

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:

I would still engage you in conversation if you mocked me, so long as you backed off from doing it and recognized it as a mistake. I won't if it's a standard tool in your kit.

After thinking on it the last couple of days, and considering your high reasonableness I do agree that in hindsight it is not the best option, I am sorry for taking that tone and apologize and I won't do it again.
I appreciate that. [Smile]
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Blayne Bradley
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Stone Wolf has also been pretty consistent in his advice to me in that I need to be doing a lot more to not get as bothered to imagined slights.

In unrelated news, Stone Wolf have you ever considered as alternative nicknames for MMO's or whatever Canine McGranite? I'm looking at your name and I just can't get it out of my head. [Big Grin]

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Stone_Wolf_
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[Smile] No, I had never considered that one. My old nick was "Ranger".
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:

Rakeeeh...I meant, with the enemies comment that all the HR jerks were circling, taking shots.

I think it was scumbags actually. That's what you called us. Yep. Scumbags.
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Stone_Wolf_
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I own a thesaurus. [Wink]
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Rakeesh
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quote:
As to my compliment...damn straight that's what I meant. Just as yours to Blayne did. That being said I meant it (as I assume you did to Blayne) as a pat on the back for good work.
One compliment also contained a sharp insult, and one didn't. Which was my point.'
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Stone_Wolf_
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I bet if you ask Blayne he would disagree that only -one- contained an insult.

As to if it was sharp...I find it strange that a group of guys saying how pointless it is to even talk to Blayne isn't bullying, but me saying to you that I think you were uncivil is a "sharp insult"? You had the admin forbid me from talking to you! Exactly what did you imagine my opinion of was that this little attempt at a compliment comes as shocking news to you?

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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
I own a thesaurus. [Wink]

And you abuse it by searching for words that you don't understand, and then using them... don't you?
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Stone_Wolf_
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Abuse? Well my thesaurus has never complained. [Razz]
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Rakeesh
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quote:
I bet if you ask Blayne he would disagree that only -one- contained an insult.

As to if it was sharp...I find it strange that a group of guys saying how pointless it is to even talk to Blayne isn't bullying, but me saying to you that I think you were uncivil is a "sharp insult"? You had the admin forbid me from talking to you! Exactly what did you imagine my opinion of was that this little attempt at a compliment comes as shocking news to you?

Some clarification: I wasn't referring to my entire post, but rather to the paragraph. Second, I think we may be getting confused as to what each other is talking about. The remark of yours I refer to as a sharp insult is the one in which you praised Blayne because of the 'enemies' he had. I interpreted that to be a rather scathing attack on Orincoro and Samprimary, possibly myself as well but I'm not so sure. Am I mistaken in that? Was that remark not intended as an attack on those people? It also read as distinctly passive aggressive, to layer an insult in the midst of praise for someone else.

As to it being pointless to talk to Blayne, if that were an accurate characterization of what happened here, all of this would be layered in page one, not page four. Now you're just whitewashing, and I'm not really sure why.

As to your opinion of me, yes, Stone_Wolf, I remember what it is quite well. It's not the first time you've asked me that question, in fact. I'm not sure why you keep making that inquiry-is it supposed to sting, or do you think I need a reminder, or what?

Finally, 'I had the admin forbid you from talking to me' is, shall we say, a very incomplete description. That said, I'll happily drop the matter. Actually drop it, I mean, without any thinly veiled attacks in the guise of praise of Blayne.

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Stone_Wolf_
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There seems to be lots of confusion, as most of the points you brought up were specifically addressed earlier...

quote:
Actually drop it, I mean, without any thinly veiled attacks in the guise of praise of Blayne.
No, your praise of Blayne comes with thinly veiled threats.
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Rakeesh
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If that's how you want to read it, there's little that can be said. If it had actually been a threat, I wouldn't consider that thinly veiled at all, really.

What it actually was, were the weary remarks of someone who hopes but doesn't expect 'direct mocking as valid argumentation' won't happen again, and not just to 'the bullies', either. What it was was me expecting that some point in the not too distant future, one of the sacred topics will come up and someone-not just 'the bullies'-will say something seems so wrong and/or offensive that direct mockery will again become a valid tool. That's when 'the bullies' will (with some cheerfulness) remember this conversation. I'd rather none of that happen, not just for my sake, but because it's not fun for anyone.

But believing that would smack of possibly agreeing that maybe it's not as simple as bullies and victim here, so I don't think it's likely.

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Stone_Wolf_
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Well I'm sorry that my insult to the jerks here had a thinly veiled complement to Blayne...as I explained.
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BlackBlade
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This thread has taken on the diplomatic spirit of its subject matter. It's kinda meta. But not in a good way.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
Well I'm sorry that my insult to the jerks here had a thinly veiled complement to Blayne...as I explained.

I'm not sure if you're being intentionally ironic here or not.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Not ironic at all.

Did you even read this?

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Rakeesh
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Ah, I didn't think so. Serious question: do you realize, or simply not care, how grating the passive-aggression in that apology and the 'Blayne is top notch judging by his enemies' can be?

I say that because I seriously can't tell: do you think it's going unnoticed, that you're sneaking something in under the radar? Because that treats people like they're stupid. Or do you realize it will be noticed, and convey the sort of insult or attack that is comprehended? Or do you not intend an insult at all? I really can't tell. I'm not just bitching at you.

Yeah, I did read that post. I guess I come away with a response of: if 'bullying' (which I still maintain you haven't made a good case for, but that's subjective) is such a big deal to you and it's so important to stand up against it, why do you so commonly do so in a passive aggressive way?

Because there are people who say 'hey, guys, lay off Blayne' without slipping in the shots. I really don't know how to interpret it when you do, though. What it reads like is that it's as much about taking swipes of your own as it is about speaking up against bullying.

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Stone_Wolf_
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I don't know what to tell you...I calls 'em like I sees 'em. I don't flinch away from calling someone's behavior jerky or inappropriate or hurtful or whatever. So if I'm "passive aggressive" then the unintentional part is the "passive".
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Elison R. Salazar
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On a semi interesting note, I would appreciate it if people didn't use my real name from now onwards and edit your recent posts, I greatly appreciate it.

[Wink]

Erz is also a pretty acceptable short hand [Big Grin]

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Stone_Wolf_
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That's a neat trick.
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steven
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quote:
Originally posted by Elison R. Salazar:
On a semi interesting note, I would appreciate it if people didn't use my real name...

Cat's out of the bag on that one. What's your motive? Are you worried that people will Google you and find your posts here? It's going to be awfully hard to completely get all Hatrack posts out of Google results for your real name.

I'm kind of entertained by the idea that you might be thinking about one day applying for a job where such search results could hurt your chances for getting the job. That seems so far away from where you are right now, recently fired from a cell phone support call center.

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Rakeesh
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quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
I don't know what to tell you...I calls 'em like I sees 'em. I don't flinch away from calling someone's behavior jerky or inappropriate or hurtful or whatever. So if I'm "passive aggressive" then the unintentional part is the "passive".

I believe you think that you do. "Calls 'em like I sees 'em" people, though, don't make such a habit of sticking insults in the midst of praise, or make as much of a habit of concealing their antagonism for their 'enemies' with defense of a third party.

I know what 'concern for Blayne' looks like, and I know what 'excuse to take shots at people I don't like' looks like. Your last post perhaps unintentionally acknowledges which one this actually is. There's a reason you're so much quicker to note the bad behavior of Samprimary and Orincoro over others here-or even over Blayne himself, earlier in this thread. You can have whatever narrative about that that you like, and no one can stop you, but that's not what you put out into the world.

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Stone_Wolf_
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Forgive me if I take your assessment of me with a grain or two of salt.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Also he has asked to no longer referred to by his real name.
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jebus202
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I am confident that Blayne is not Blayne's real name. I think it's Charlie, or Chuck or something.
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Parsimony
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Just a helpful suggestion: if you want to transition away from using your real name on a forum you have frequented for years, maybe think about making your new name shorter and less complicated. If you make it something at least as easy to type and think as "Blayne," you might stand a better chance of getting others to call you by your new moniker.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Well...he did suggest "Erz" as a short hand
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TomDavidson
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I'd go with "Eli" or "Sal" first, I think.
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