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My 12 year old son has been slacking off on his reading lately, due in no small part to the invention of the Gameboy. He's a straight A student, so my husband and I have made a deal with him for the summer. If he reads one book- from a list provided by us-we'll buy him a new video game of his choosing. The problem isn't his willingness to participate in said arrangement- its the book choice. The usual suspects are there- The Illiad, The Odyssey, Journey to the Center of the Earth, something by Mark Twain, Alexander Dumas, etc. But I of course added Ender's Game. Aye, there's the rub! My son wants to read EG- he's a big scifi/fantasy lover, like me. Alas, my husband refuses to consider it. His objections? That its not a "real" book because its science fiction. He's never read Card's work, though I think he'd love the Alvin series (he's big into history), so I feel he can't make an informed opinion. When I pointed this out, he said he'd read some Heinlein, Bradbury and H.G. Wells and lumped all scifi writers in the Young Adult category. Needless to say at this point, I'm tearing my hair out. Now I'm told I should "read a real book." He offers Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Shakespeare. Of course, I've already read them- I like to consider myself well-read. No matter what I say, he refuses to consider my arguments. Any suggestions?
Posts: 55 | Registered: May 2003
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"If you haven't read it, you don't know. There are varying levels of quality in all genres. Just because you read a book by Heinlein doesn't mean that a book by Card is of the same caliber. If you won't read it, then you'll just have to trust me when I say that it's excellent. Seeing as how you married me, I would certainly hope that you trust my judgment. . . ."
Okay, maybe leave off the guilt trip about "you married me" but the rest seems good to me.
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I agree with Sweet William may a deal wherehim and your son read EG and youread something he chosses or something along those lines. I think the bargin is a better way then the guilt trip but then agin I don't know you'r husband so you need to decid just throwing out what I think.
Posts: 397 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Excuse me?! If it is science fiction, it isn't a "real" book? I don't mean to be disrespectful, but your husband needs to take a look at his definitions. Literary fiction is all well and good, but it is not the be all and end all of literature.
It seems to me that he is basing his definition of what a "real" book is on who wrote it rather than on what it contains. I don't think that is a fair definition at all. Also, if I am remembering right, one of his suggestions for reading was Shakespeare. I don't believe Shakespeare ever wrote a book - he wrote plays and sonnets. Okay, maybe I'm nitpicking, but my point is that he really needs to examine his preconceptions about literature.
P. S. When I was your son's age, my father was handing me science fiction and urging me to read it.
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i might be wrong would not be the first time but is not Journey to the Center of the Earth scifi/fantasy i thought so but like i said i might be wrong having never read it yet. Posts: 23 | Registered: May 2003
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I don't know about your son, but that would be sufficient motivation for me.
How about everytime I finish a book, you buy me a gameboy game? You'd be purchasing at least 2 games a week, and I'd be a very happy boy. Posts: 1855 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I can't figure out why Journey to the Center of the Earth or anything by Dumas would be considered INHERENTLY more literary than something from modern science fiction. What's his reasoning: that, by being old, it's more worthwhile?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I've read almost all of the books listed in this thread, and I went out and bought a Gameboy SP as soon as they came out. I also own the original Gameboy, Gameboy Pocket, Gameboy Color, and Gameboy Advance. Pretty much every iteration of the Gameboy, I suppose. So I sit at lunch or during breaks at work and play Street Fighter II like a fiend. And you know what? I'd pick Gameboy over all those books anyday. So I am probably not a big help in the advice department. I type this with my Gameboy SP in my front pocket. I even buy those cool Dockers pants with all the pockets for my cellphone and my Palm Pilot as well. I have issues, what can I say?
Oh, does your son have the link cable and a copy of Street Fighter II???
My solution to the problem is that I read my son (7 years old) Enders Game every night before bed then I will read Enders Shadow etc...
I will probably not read SftD or CotM to him, but will read as much as possible, including the Bean series. So why not read to him yourself and take matters into your own hands. Or, take matters into your own hands and read to him yourself.
Posts: 1870 | Registered: Mar 2003
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The only thing that makes me sad about this whole problem is that a bright 12-year-old who is willing to read should be able to read what they care about. A forced reading list never makes people love reading -- in fact it usually has the opposite effect. It's hard to get away from it in school, but certainly at home there could be more latitude. The books listed are way beyond the experience of most 12-year-olds. Even if they understand it all, it won't make much impact in their lives. Maybe Mark Twain, but that's it on the list you gave. I remember Scott talking about reading Moby Dick in high school. He hated that book until he read it again at the age of 35 and realized that it was actually funny and wise -- he just read it too young!
Posts: 780 | Registered: Jul 1999
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Magson, littlemiss and Tom- His reasoning is that he doesn't view any scifi as "classic" literature. Personally, I can find classics in all genres. Charles- Yes, I consider Journey to the Center of the Earth scifi/fantasy. I put that one on the list. I'm not sure why there was no big argument with this one. kacard- I agree with your point. The list came about in the first place because my son was interested in the Homecoming series when I was reading it and chose Mr. Card for a project at school on NC authors. He asked about Ender's Game and showed interest in it. I thought, if thats what he wants to read, great. That's when the whole reading list came into play. My husband wanted him to have other choices. I thought it would be more satisfying for him to read something that he would have interest in, instead of picking something he'd think of as a struggle. Sweet William- Thanks for the suggestion. He has agreed to read a book of my choice and I'll read one of his. Now to figure out if he should read Ender's Game or Seventh Son... I'll let you know how it goes.
Posts: 55 | Registered: May 2003
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Excellent! Good luck on making that choice between books. If your goal is to have your hubby embrace SF as a "legitimate" genre, then Enders Game (IMHO) would be the choice.
Seventh Son, however is a magnificent book, and would definitely serve to get him hooked on OSC as an author, if that is a goal.
Mrs. C: Once again, you have hit it on the head. As a 12 year old, I enjoyed reading immensely. However, if someone had given me a list, I certainly would have stopped reading for the entire summer just to show them who was in charge here. But I'm a rebel and I'll never ever be any good.
Posts: 524 | Registered: May 2003
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Thanks. I finally gave up on lurking and sneaked over here. I was going to be someone different, but I don't have enough RAM to remember two user ID's. Posts: 524 | Registered: May 2003
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Well, Jaxonn, you can tell your spouse that Ender's Game is on the reading list for The Pingry School, an elite New Jersey private school which provides many incoming freshmen to Ivy League colleges.
And here's some other books I'd recommend off the top of my head, for what it's worth.
Mark Twain - Huckleberry Finn Jack London - White Fang Mary Shelley - Frankenstein Eric Knight - Lassie Come-Home (the REAL story, set in Yorkshire, not the silly TV series) Anne Frank - Diary of a Young Girl Charles Dickens - A Christmas Carol, Great Expectations, A Tale of Two Cities Jules Verne - Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea Lois Lowry - The Giver Thomas Malory - Le Morte d'Arthur Alexander Solzhenitsyn - Matryona's Home, One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich Andersen - Fairy Tales (the original versions, NOT any watered-down Disneyfied adapted nonsense) Washington Irving - Legend of Sleepy Hollow/Rip Van Winkle/other stories Robert Louis Stevenson - Treasure Island Leo Tolstoy - Master and Man Richard Adams - Watership Down Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac Lewis Thomas - Lives of a Cell
And don't forget the Sherlock Holmes stories by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
[ June 05, 2003, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: Yozhik ]
Posts: 1512 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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Yozhik...I think it is interesting that you included Mary Shelley's Frankenstein on your list of classic literature. Right now I am reading Trillion Year Spree, a history of science fiction by Brian Aldiss. It is his contention that Ms. Shelley's novel is the first science fiction novel.
Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Let me get this straight, he doesn't think sci fi is a 'real' book, and yet he says nothing about Journey to the Center of the Earth?
And if you're son wants to read sci-fi or something, just let him read Dune by Frank Herbert or Foundation by Isaac Asimov. Any teacher would tell you...well not any I guess...well...ok, so this is my opinion, but nonetheless, they're quite good pieces of literature.
And as for not being real books, again, my opinion, but sci-fi allows for the creation of civilizations and societies(example: A sociological society as represented in the Foundation novels, or we can go with the cool ol' Communist one in 1984) that can only exist in theory in today's world. That's my take on it.
Posts: 332 | Registered: Apr 2003
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gottmorder: i dont know about dune and 12 year olds. i know i wouldnt have wanted to read it when i was 12. actually, i know that i tried to read it when i was 11 and got bored a couple hundred pages in. it just seems like enders game is a better book for a younger person. plus, you can read enders game over and over as you get older, and it always means something different to you.
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I don't know if it matters anymore but considering sci-fi to justify something as not being a "real book" is not only an insult to many many authors but is also a very erroneous one. In many of Cards books there are allusions of all sorts. Many sci-fi books, if parts such as setting were changed, could be considered philosophy, religious, historical, historical fiction, and many other genres. While some science fiction books do cross the line of plausibility, many, such as Cards, are like what I mentioned above. Some of Card's books such as Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets, and Children of the Mind deal greatly with political issues that occur today. Just because a book is fictional does not meant that it is not worth reading. It would be like saying that Tolkien's books are not worth reading. If you really want to stretch, that statement could mean that all fiction is not worth reading. Card brilliantly uses many different aspects of life such as religion, politics, war, history, mythology, and science to portray an idea within a story. If you want your son to start reading I HIGHLY recomend having him read the Enders Game and Shadow series. Since your son is only 12 years old, he may, like many children that age that I have heard, dislike the last few books in the Game series (Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the Mind). The last three books deal with matters that are either dull or unappealing to many children. That is not to say that he should not at one point read them, but he may be more partial to the Shadow series that runs parrallel to the Game series(Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets). Thats about all I have to say but before I end, not only do I think that your son should read these books, I think that having your husband read them really open his mind and who knows, he may actually enjoy them. With that, Salaam
Posts: 34 | Registered: Jun 2003
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And Salaam, I couldn't have put it better myself. My husband has agreed to read Ender's Game, so I'll let everyone know how it goes. Posts: 55 | Registered: May 2003
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Jaxxon, I hope your husband enjoys Enders Game. I hope even more that your son will read it, along with Seventh Son and I would also add the Asimov Foundation series (but not the Dune books, except maybe the first one).
I agree with Salaam. There will be time for Hemingway, Shakespeare, Fitzgerald, Faulkner, all the "serious" writers. Evan Dumas or Dickens are probably too early. For now, let your son float down the river with Huck Finn, paint the fence with Tom Sawyer, go to school with Ender, go undersea with Captain Nemo, or ride the Black Stallion.
Although I read the kind of stuff your husband suggested when I was your son's age (Moby Dick comes to mind), I do not pretend that I really understood what I read. I do not recall that I enjoyed it. But I did enjoy all of the ones mentioned above.
Have fun. Let us know how things go.
Posts: 147 | Registered: Oct 1999
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That is the problem with school systems today. All too often they try and force kids to read books instead of giving them a choice. When a kid is forced to read something he or she doesn't like, the interest level in reading goes down and often the reading of that particular book stops. I think it is good that you gave your kid a choice on a book he wanted to read because now he may find that he actually really enjoys it. It is also good for you to add in different kinds of books...like sci-fi because school curriculums don't usually include many sci-fi books and in my opinion, some of the best books are sci-fis.
Posts: 306 | Registered: Jun 2003
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You know what I would do? I would forbid them to read the books that your really want them to read. I don't mean in a halfway sort of forbidding, I mean ardently seem like you don't want them to read the books that you really do want them to read. 9/10 times that will work. Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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One of my fondest memories as a boy, was sitting around with my family reading aloud books by Madeleine L'Engle, C.S. Lewis, Roald Dahl and such. We would rotate who would read by chapter. Maybe try something like that and occassionally work in a "Classic" in literature. It, not only lead to my love of reading, it also lead to early exposure to philosophy and psychology, as we would discuss our views of what we had just read. Not to mention, a bonding with my parents and brother that I never would have gotten by just watching TV.
Just a thought, Christopher
Posts: 172 | Registered: Jun 2003
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Christopher, I agree that reading with children helps form a great bond and a lifelong love of reading. I've been reading to both my sons since they were babies. I don't think they'd enjoy reading nearly as much if we hadn't always made time for it in our home. And welcome to Hatrack. I'm new here as well.
Thank you for the warm welcome. I've been a OSC fan for just shy of 20 years, funny that I've just "stumbled" in here. How old are your boys, if you don't mind my asking?
Posts: 172 | Registered: Jun 2003
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My sons are 8 and 12. We just finished reading Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire out loud each evening before bed.
The 12 year old has just begun reading the Odyssey and loves it. Next on his list, Ender's Game! We let him choose on his own- no pressure. And Dad is starting Ender's Game, so that's progress.
Posts: 55 | Registered: May 2003
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Rackham'sRazor, I love your SN. The name Mazer Rackham always reminded me of Occam's Razor, and I always wondered if that was intentional. It does add an interesting dimension to the name. But every time I have brought it up among fellow EG fans, they think I'm crazy for making the connection at all. It's nice to see I'm not completely alone.
There's some good advice on this thread. I have nothing more to add, except that Victor Hugo's The Hunchback of Notre Dame is a fun read for just about everyone. I just recommended it to my 15-year-old brother and he enjoyed it.
Posts: 537 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Heinlein is young adult? What the hades did he read? If he read Red Planet or something well DUH.. those are junior reader books. Give him Door into Summer or Moon is a Harsh Mistress or freak him out with Stranger in a Strange land.
Best thing is to point out that our space program exists thanks to Heinlein, Assimov, Pohl etc. If it wasn't for their vision we wouldn't be anywhere right now. We wouldn't be reaching for mars. Hades.. we might even not have.. WATERBEDS.. which Heinlein invented.
I think your husband needs a little refresher in science. What in the world did Shakespeare invent? What did Mark Twain invent? Yes, they are great great authors that I love, but science impresses me since I don't have THAT kind of vision. Heinlein invented Waldos that are used in clean rooms (the arms you put your arms in). He coined the term Waldo. He designed our current space shuttle too. No, he didn't lay out all the circuits etc that I know of, but it was HE that thought out how it could be plausible.
Science fiction is not pablum. Enders Game isn't especially since even now the Air Force is creating remote controlled fighter jets etc. You don't think that if that's pulled off we won't have the same thing is space someday? We won't ever colonize? I think we have a few million years yet til the sun burns out I believe. Where will the ideas of Mark Twain or Shakespeare be other than outdated whimsy and a taste of history we may not understand thoroughly by then.
I think he just needs to look at the bigger picture. Also, if it inspires your son to read he will be curious and excited to read more things and more varieties of things so he can hold conversations like we are here.
Yes, I'm dropping in late.. but Heinlein young adult??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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If your goal is to have your hubby embrace SF as a "legitimate" genre, then Enders Game (IMHO) would be the choice.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
