posted
Is their anyone Mormon out their that could answer this question: I'm reading Folk of the Fringe and I wondered do some Baptist churches really spread lies about Mormon churches saying their devil worshipers and such or is it just fiction when the book says that.
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posted
I am a Mormon, and I grew up in Texas and Oklahoma, so I have some experience with this.
Yeah, it happens. Not by everybody, but there were local preachers who would specifically preach about the evils of Mormonism. I don't know what they actually said (I was never there), but many of their parishoners ended up with the idea that we pretty much were on the same level as Satan worshippers.
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posted
Sometimes. But most Baptists are very nice people, really. In some parts of the country, the churches are seen as archenemies, but in some, they are more likely to band together to support common causes, such as good works. There's a long history, but if we don't discuss theology, we seem to get along okay as individuals.
And we prefer "Latter-day Saints" or LDS, just fyi.
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posted
I have an aunt who is convinced that I and my brothers belong to an almost-cult, but she loves us anyway and has resolved never to bring it up to avoid insulting us. She got the idea from her church, but I'm honestly not sure what denomination it is because we NEVER discuss religion.
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posted
I've noticed this is a lot bigger in the South/Midwest than the West Coast. When growing up in CA, my mom said that "Mormons are a cult", sure, but that was coming from her mother, who was raised Baptist in Kansas in the 30's. Other than that, I never heard anything bad about the Church; I only heard about joint initiatives between the local churches to clean up a polluted beach or feed the hungry, etc.
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See, in SoCal, I ran into a few, but a very few, who thought we weren't Christian. 'Most everyone knew we were Christian, although beyond that, they are usually a little confused as to what we believe. But most have no problem accepting us as Christians; maybe it's the proximity to AZ and Utah?
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posted
I am not a morom, and i was raise in a church that taught that mormons were not christians. Would someone please post some of the misconceptions about mormonism that are mistakes made my some christians. I am intrested to here the discrepencies between what the LCS say and what some of my baptist roots say.
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The full name of the church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
It's almost impossible to clear up all conceptions that you might or might not have. Ask questions and we'll answer them.
Also, you might get better results asking this question over on the other side where there are more people to answer your questions.
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posted
If you'd like to clear up your misconceptions without exposing them to the populace, you could also go to mormon.org, the official site put up by the Church just to answer questions from curious folk. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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First misconception, the abilty for Follower of mormonism to achieve diety, secondly jesus being the brother of Lucifer.
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No. 2: We believe we are all children of God, and lived with Him before we lived on Earth.Satan was one of Heavenly Father's children, just as we were, but chose to leave rather than follow God's plan for our salvation. Since we are all children of God, we are all brothers and sisters in spirit. Yes, this includes Satan and Jesus Christ, but their relationship isn't unique.
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quote: Satan, also known as the devil or Lucifer, is an enemy of God and of all those who endeavor to do the will of God. He attempts to entice and tempt all men and women to do evil or wrong. He uses deception and the imitation of good to lead people away from God. He cannot force or coerce an individual against his or her will to do evil and follow him. His objective is to make all mankind miserable. He once lived in a pre-earth or premortal life in the presence of God before this earth was created. He rebelled against God and the eternal plan of progress and righteousness. He persuaded many others to follow his rebellion all of whom were cast out of God’s presence. They are damned in their development for they do not receive physical bodies. They work to influence and tempt those who dwell as mortals on the earth. All who are obedient to God’s commandments and follow the principles of goodness and righteousness are protected from Satan’s influences. The time will come when Satan will no longer have power over men and women, and his works will cease.
We believe that we were all in God's presence before this life, and that we are all God's children. As such, we are all brothers and sisters.
posted
Wow thanks guys this really sparked off a good discussion and if you don't mind I have a question or two of my own. First of is it insulting to be called Mormons and if thats like a nasty slang where did it originate. Also someone told me something I had never heard before, they said that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believed the world started like in the early 1800's or something and I had never heard of this in any of OSC books which is where I have learned most of my information about the church. Since I had never heard this I figured this person was wrong but couldn't say so due to a lack of knowledge. So if you could clear it up that would be great. Thanks.
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The word Mormon comes from The Book of Mormon, a book of scripture that we use alongside the Bible. www.mormon.org can tell you a lot about The Book of Mormon if you want to learn more.
From the beginning, people that didn't understand started calling it things like "The Book of the Mormons" or "The Mormon Bible", etc., and calling members of the church Mormons.
The church was organized on April 6, 1830.
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quote: I wondered do some Baptist churches really spread lies about Mormon churches saying their devil worshipers and such or is it just fiction when the book says that.
posted
Orange, you got a good answer as to where it originated, but to answer your other questions: no, it's not really insulting. It began as a derogatory and/or incorrect term, but we now self-identify by it quite often. Kind of like the whole "Indian" thing; Native Americans quite often self-identify as Indians, but it can be used with some very bad connotations, depending on context. The reasons we prefer "LDS", "Latter-day Saints", or "Saints" (that last mostly among ourselves) are: 1)It's more accurate. It's a derivation of the correct name of our church, and a descriptor of what we strive to be. 2) "Mormon" is the word that is most often associated with the misleading and/or false information that's spread around about us and our beliefs; sometimes we can make a good impression on behalf of the "LDS" community, even on someone who "hates Mormons"; by the time they realize their mistake, they usually realize that their prior thinking about us was a mistake, and that we're mostly good folk. 3) "Mormon" is often used to describe "fundamentalist" groups that believe in polygamy, etc.; our church's name is only an accurate description of members of our church. 4) Our prophets have asked us to say LDS, and ask the media and others to do so as well.
As for the 1800's thing, no. That's complete nonsense, especially considering I know several Saints who can trace their family lines back as far as the 1500's. Our church began in the 1800's. This "dispensation of the Gospel" (church talk) began in the 1800's. That may be where the mistake came in, off the top of my head.
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posted
Sorry for the misunderstanding. No, not that I could find. I was aware that 0range7Penguin had mentioned Baptists by name, but certainly Baptists, or any other denomination, do not have a corner on this sort of thing, so I mentally de-emphasized the word "Baptists" in the question and focused on whether or not fundamentalist Christians in general (by which I mean, not a majority, but rather, of a variety of denominations) spread misinformation of this sort.
I have heard Baptists make claims such as these, I have seen Baptists use Chick tracts, and I believe that Chick would consider Baptists to be legitimately Christian and saved, but by no means do I mean to imply that all Baptists share this worldview, or that only Baptists are guilty of this. Rather, my intent was to show a pretty clear example of the kind of crap LDS have to content with. A wide variety of spurious claims about LDS are made in that tract.
EDIT: So basically, no, that was not merely a fiction in Folk.
posted
Okay. Read the Chick thingie. Which allegations were incorrect, which were somewhat correct, and where did he get those ideas?
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posted
I made sure to not jump into this thread prematurely cuz I know how religion can rile ppl up and I'm not trying to make enemies, but have any of you (the Mormons in particular) seen the South Park where they basically rip on Mormonism? did that piss you off? and it is my understanding that Mormons also believe that Jesus spent some time in North America? is this true? ***Please remember that these questions are not at all meant as a challenge to your beliefs, I am just curious, and my readings of Mormon writings haven't really shed any light on it.
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posted
Ramdac, we've had to put up with crap like that ever since we've been around. We've been hearded like animals, ridiculed in almost every poitical forum and murdered, point-blank. If we can make it through that, we can make it through some nobodies poking fun.
Plus they made-up for it with the "Mormons were right" scene in Hell.
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quote:Also someone told me something I had never heard before, they said that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believed the world started like in the early 1800's or something ...
Not sure where they got that idea, though it probably came from the fact that the CHURCH started in the early 1800's. But we have the same disagreements with each other about the age of the earth that every other bunch of Christians out there has Some are literal Creationists, some believe that the earth took slightly longer to make, and some think God used scientific processes that took millions of years. But "made in the 1800's" isn't one of the options.
Though it would be interesting to meet someone who DID believe that, just to see how they justified it
Michelle ...
quote:Okay. Read the Chick thingie. Which allegations were incorrect, which were somewhat correct, and where did he get those ideas?
That's a very long tract, but there is one basic idea that should shed light on the whole thing. The Mormons believe in the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and two other, smaller books of scripture. We also believe in heeding the counsel of our modern leaders.
Note that most of the beliefs that the tract cites are backed up only by obscure quotes or independent books written by early church leaders and personalities. We don't consider these books to be valid sources of doctrine. They may contain interesting ideas, but that's as far as they go. And specifically, the weird ideas that Chick likes to quote are not part of our beliefs.
Anotehr thing Chick likes to do is to take a doctrine or idea that is on the fringes of our beliefs, such as a common speculation, a culturally-transmitted "folk doctrine", or an idea that can be extrapolated from our beliefs, but which is not actually a strong belief of ours in its own right ... and cast them as the though they were the central, core beliefs that we hang our faith on. In truth, while a few of the ideas he mentions sound familiar to Mormons, and are similar to things we believe, the overall picture that Chick paints is almost the diametric opposite of what the Church is really about.
quote:have any of you (the Mormons in particular) seen the South Park where they basically rip on Mormonism? did that piss you off?
While Parker and Stone love to tease us, they're actually a lot less savage with us than they are with most people. I get the impression that they kind of like Mormons, having grown up with a large nubmer of them in Colorado. They don't think we're right, but I'm pretty sure they don't think we're bad, either. So I don't mind them at all. Kind of enjoy it, actually.
quote:and it is my understanding that Mormons also believe that Jesus spent some time in North America? is this true?
That's a big part of what the Book of Mormon is about. We believe that after Christ was resurrected, He made some visitations to a group of people living in the Americas, who had been taught by prophets (much the way teh Jews were) that a Messiah was coming to save them from their sins. Our beliefs focus heavily on the fact that God is over the entire world, and that He is unlikely to have abandoned entire civilizations to perish in ignorance.
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posted
Great answers there. One other thing about that tract; it implies that the missionaries prey on lonely people to trick them into joining. While I'm not denying that there is a strong social element to the Church, and we do occasionally get "social" converts, we encourage people to join the church because they have a strong belief that it is true, not because their friends or family have joined, or just because they have made friends at church. People who join without belief tend to fall away. While they are always welcome, it's a lot better for everyone involved if people join the Church because they have a strong belief in Christ and the Book of Mormon's veracity and our guidance by a prophet today.
(And just a nitpick; a single woman would not be taught alone in her home by the Elders. They would send some sister missionaries over to teach her, or have the discussions in a member's house, or something. I know it's not relevant, but I'd like to point out that the Church has strict rules about that.)
quote: Okay. Read the Chick thingie. Which allegations were incorrect, which were somewhat correct, and where did he get those ideas?
I can tell you where he gets his ideas. Crack cocaine.
And considering how much enjoyment I've gotten out of parodying Chick tracts, I'd say don't change a thing, Jack. Don't change a thing!
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posted
I've never understood why some religions feel the need to make official statements about other faiths. Didn't both the Baptists and Methodists recently make "official" statements saying the LDS Church wasn't consistent with current Christianity?
(Which is kinda true, since the church clearly believes it is the restoration of Christ's Church and, therefore, is not Protestant.)
It always cracks me up that we live in a society that we often listen to (and accept) the single voice of the dissenter rather than the whole. That's like assuming the only truth we believe from a large corporation is from the people that get fired...or from the competition.
If www.mormon.org seems too PR for you, you can visit the church site directly and hear doctrine from the very mouths of its leaders, reference books and other direct sources. It doesn't get any clearer than that:
posted
Thanks again everyone for your responses. I am Lutheran but I keep an open mind when it comes to religion especially other variations of christianity. I am currently reading the bible (very slowly when I have time but hay its long and atleast I'm doing it) and when I finish that I think I will read the book of mormon. Someday I'm going to read the Koran too. I am going to inform my freind that she's way off the mark with the whole 1800's thing I was pretty sure she was originally.
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posted
Whats a Chick? Other than a cute girl and a baby chicken?
On another note I must say this forum has been somewhat educational. I now know things I didn't before.
Now on a more personal level now I'm annoyed at my friends in the christian fellowship club here at Abbott (I'm not a member I just hang out to debate evolution) they just aren't umm appreciative of other religions. C'mon one of them wants to have a class on how to convert Muslims to Christians ack!
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The Falcon Christian Fellowship, at my high school, was about 1/3 LDS, 1/3 Baptist, 1/6 Presbyterian, and 1/6 Methodist. (There were a couple of others in there, but those are the approximate numbers.) I always saw it as a pretty cool thing that they all managed to get along and be civilized. They were the second largest club on campus.
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posted
Sid, Jack Chick is this dude who makes cartoon pamphlets that promote a very creepy and negative version of Christianity.
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Jul 2004
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The part of the Chick pamphlet that really made me curious was the part that implied racism ... that Mormons believed that blacks were born inferior.
I doubt that would be a current teaching but was that a legitimate belief LDS church at one point? Michelle
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In all fairness, several church leaders believed it. But as of the late '70s, blacks can finally serve as priests.
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