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Author Topic: New here but have a question...
pastallpatience
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Hello all, I'm relatively new to the Enderverse and this forum (I've been reading the series for about 3 months) I'm on 'Shadow of the Giant' now and have a question. It's about Peter.

What the heck happened to him being a little sadistic, crazy, almost terrifying character? In the Ender books he's horrible to Andrew and Val, but in the Shadow series he seems a weakling, rolling over to the power of Petra, Bean, Varlomi, etc. etc.

Did anyone else notice this or am I just a dumb newbie??

Death To Achilles,
pastallpatience.

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Tara
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He grew up?

It never seemed to me like his character or personality changed. He was just became more mature. Also, I don't remember him "rolling over to the power" of anyone else -- he just realized they were smarter and more experienced than he.

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pastallpatience
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Ahh... That makes sense, but I still think there's something to his sadistic side that didn't carry over. Take Bean or Petra for example. Their qualities stayed with them. Even Ender's did when he was the Speaker and on. But Peter's rage seemed to just go away. I don't know. Could just be me. It just seems that some of that rage (which was quite pronounced in the first book) didn't carry over. It's never mentioned again (well, wait, I still haven't finished the Shadow of the Giant yet), I just figured it would be.
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Launchywiggin
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It's been a while since I've read the shadow series, but from what I remember, I recognized that Peter's "sadism" had a lot to do with having power and thirsting for power. When he starting posting as Locke and Demosthenes, I think that his thirst for power was "transformed" into the more mature desire to bring order to the world. Like Tara said, I don't necessarily think that his sadism has to carry over into adulthood--Peter was still very smart, just too aggressive for battle school.

Spoiler*
I think we're all glad that Peter did grow up, too. And I think OSC had "mature Peter" in mind all along, as was evidenced by the Peter we see in the Speaker series.

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TomDavidson
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Do we SEE a Peter in the Speaker series? We hear of one teary apology, a book written to put some of his atrocities into perspective, and that's about it. Shadow Peter has very few atrocities on his record, and Nu-Peter isn't really Peter at all.
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pastallpatience
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Have to agree with both of the above, but more with Tom. "Nu-Peter" was taken from Outside and was more Ender than Peter, no?
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talsmitde
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*spoiler alert*
Peter wasn't rejected from Battle School because he was too agressive, one _cannot_ be too aggressive for Battle School. He was rejected because people didn't love him. Even the people who worked under him later on loved his ideas, not him.

*end spoiler*

As for outgrowing the sadism--I think it's likely. Peter as a young man was very frustrated and very bored. Running the personas of two very popular commentators, getting to work with Valentine, making a difference in the world would have given him a very viable outlet. Remember, his parents mention in Ender's Game that he seems to mellow once he starts working with Valentine, and Valentine tells Ender while they're on the lake that Peter's changed. (To which Ender replied, "I don't want to talk about Peter.") Yes, NuPeter's different, but there are indications in EG that Peter was outgrowing the sadism at an early age.

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JennaDean
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And of course in the Ender stories we only saw him from his little brother's perspective - his terrified little brother. Not that Peter never did any of those things; but we don't really get any of it from his perspective - why he did them, what he was feeling. In the Shadow books we get much more of it from his POV.

OSC's always been great at letting us see characters in such a real, understandable way - even the villains are understandable and, to a certain extent, sympathetic. It makes sense that Peter from Ender's POV would be much more aggressive and terrifying than seeing Peter's own rationale.

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pastallpatience
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I forgot about the lake!! I think that answers my query.
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TomDavidson
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Still, I wanted to see at least one actual atrocity. What about Peter's life required a whole book of semi-religious justification?
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TomDavidson
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Still, I wanted to see at least one actual atrocity. What about Peter's life required a whole book of semi-religious justification?
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pastallpatience
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That makes sense too. I guess I just figured that as he got older he did some really mean stuff. But as I'm reading Shadow of the Giant it doesn't seem they'll be one.
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happysmiley
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And he did keep some qualities. He's still ambitious, arrogant and manipulative even if he no longer tortures squirrels bullies his younger brother and sister. Of course, he couldn't bully Ender anymore once he leaves Earth and he evantually realizes that Valentine can help him achieve his goals so he isn't mean to her anymore. As far as bean and Petra goes, he probably also realized how useful Bean would be commanding his forces and that Petra is a good strategist. I don't think you could exactly say that he rolls over for them, more like he works with them and no longer needs to be completely in control.
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