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Recently, I haven't been able to find any new (or old) books I wanted to read from the library, so I decided to re-read Ender's Game (which I own). At first it was slow going because I had that whole 'I've read this before' thing going on but then I got into the book again.
Now Ender's Game is considered THE classic Orson Scott Card book by many, but my favorite is Speaker For the Dead. Ender's Game is good and I have to admit that I like it more then I use to (when I first read it, I thought it was Ok and only kept reading the series because I was interested in what happened to the buggers), but Speaker still remains my favorite.
My current thoughts about Ender's Game: I like Ender much more then I use to. The more I re-read Ender's Game, the more I can relate to the character. For some reason. lol. And I really like all the battleroom stuff. Oh and the Peter/Valetine subplot is really good too (especially when I remember what happened to both Peter & Valentine later on in the other books).
Anyway, I'm enjoying re-reading the book. I plan to re-read Speaker For the Dead after this. I also want to re-read Xenocide, another of my favorite OSC books, after that. And I might re-read the Shadow series too. Well, as long as I don't discover any other new (or old) books I want to read! lol!
So anyone else re-reading this? Or does anybody have any insights to the book? Any things I should be thinking about as I re-read?
DF2506 " Sooner or later, I also want to re-read Pastwatch: the Redemption of Chris Columbus and Enchantment, both of which I like a lot."
Posts: 128 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I have yet to re-read any of the Ender books, but Speaker was my favorite out of all four (And the entire Shadow series too)
I've always meant to re-read it, but keep puting it off... But I've recommended the books to my pastor, and he's in Children of the mind, and he keeps talking about all of this really cool stuff that I completely forgot about.
So, next trip the the library, I'm just getting the Ender and Shadow series! And Kate Elliot's Crown of Stars series (Although that's a different story alltogether).
On an off note, I've already re-read Enchantment and Pastwatch... And Homebody... And Treasure Box...
Guess that leaves Hart's Hope and Lost Boys in addition to the Ender/Bean stories... But I still have to finish the Earthsea books... I keep meaning to get around to that... But I need to finish Persuasion before I do anything... Unless I try 'Dune' again...
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OSC Books I've Re-Read: Seventh Son, A Planet Called Treason, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the Mind, Maps in a Mirror, The Memory of Earth
OSC Books I've Re-Read More Than Once: Ender's Game, Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets, Shadow of the Giant, First Meetings in the Enderverse, Lost Boys, Red Prophet, Pastwatch
OSC Books I'm Reading Right Now: The Worthing Chronicle, Songmaster, Alvin Journeyman
OSC Books I'm Re-Reading Right Now: Ender's Game, Pastwatch, Maps in a Mirror, The Memory of Earth
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I usually re-read my OSC collection about once over the course of a year. The only one I haven't reread in my collection is Empire. This summer break I've reread Worthing, Songmaster, Hart's Hope, Lost Boys, the Alvin series, First Meetings, and Treason. But I do want to reread all of the Ender-related books this fall/winter.
I think it's interesting to see how I react each time to things I've read before, either focusing on different details, or relating to characters in different ways. For instance, now I understand far more about the political scenarios in the Shadow series than my first couple of re-readings. I can figure why Graff's manipulations were justified in his eyes. I also think Speaker is my favorite Ender book now, but a couple of years ago EG was definitely ranked higher in my mind.
Re-reading is definitely a good thing to do, especially when you buy most of your books (like me) instead of checking them out from the library. I like getting my money's worth. Posts: 973 | Registered: Apr 2005
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I've been wanting to read first meetings for the longest time but things keep getting in the way... despite the fact that I seem to have found time to re-read the whole shadow series about four times, Ender's Game seven times, and the rest of the Ender quartet once...
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I just finished readign Ender's Game and now I am reading Speaker for the Dead. Here are things that bother me- First of all, Ender was a 12 year old child when he destroyed the buggers. He was tricked into it by people who were older and supposed to be wiser than him. They nearly destroyed not only him, but several other children under false pretenses. So why is it that 3000 years later Ender gets the blame and gets his name dragged through mud by millions of people for something that he wasn't even aware he was doing? Why does he have to feel guilt for the billions of lives he was tricked into taking when the people responsible for it get off scott free without a shred of agony because they can just say, "We were just trying to do whatever it takes to save humanity." It raised some questions.
Also, I can see why Novinha and Ender married each other. Both of them have this self blame for things that were not their fault totally down. It drives me insane. There's no reason to whip yourself bloody and make your life miserable when people who should have taken responsibility (IE, the people who set up that protocal in the first place. If they had been allowed to ask WHY the piggies killed Pipo, then it would have saved Libo. It seems the first thing folks should do upon meeting aliens is find out how their bodies differ from ours so they don't assume we can turn into trees! So much suffering could have been avoided that way.) It's a great book, but those aspects bug me. I still feel this mixture of frustration and compassion for Novinha, but I don't see why she has to put so much pain on herself. Perhaps good people tend to do that, but it still makes me so mad because I know people who do that and I wish they'd stop. It turns them into wrecks. I know, because I lean in that direction and life is too short for that.
Strange conclusions, but what can you do?
Also, why is it that the boys are so angry at Ender when Graff pits the boys against him instead of being angry at GRAFF? Perhaps because he has all the power so it's easier to attack a fellow person who is as weak and powerless in the system as you are. I guess it's human nature, but it never makes sense to me, the sort of misplaced rage people tend to have against people in their position and the sort of self sacrificing love they have for people who don't deserve it, who will just use them as cannon fodder without nearly as much guilt as they should feel.
Also, I accidently bought a second copy of Speaker for trhe Dead instead of Xenocide... Why did I do that? Does anyone want it? Anyone want to trade?
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I just "reread" all of the Ender and Shadow books this summer via audiobook. What an awesome way to revisit some favorite books. I had forgotten a lot, and reading them altogether really brought the series together, since when I read them before I wasn't able to read the shadow books together for the simple fact that they hadn't all been written yet when I 'discovered' OSC.
Currently I'm going through all the Harry Potter books the same way before I read book 7. Its been hard to avoid all conversations of Book 7, but I think the rewards will be so much higher this way. Almost done with book 4, just 2 more to go.
I'll probably do the same again if there is audio versions of Alvin Maker available to me.
Posts: 197 | Registered: Jan 2007
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Synesthesia, some really good thoughts there.
I completly agree with you about good people. Usually the good people take all the blame, while the people who are really responsible get away scott free and don't really feel guility about it (or if they do, they never do anything about that guilt).
And ya, other people tend to blame the good person too. Not sure why either. Like you said, human nature...*sigh*
Anyway, I'm almost to the part where Ender kills Bonzo I think. Thinking back on it: On one hand, I feel sorry for the jerk, on the other I'm happy that Ender didn't get hurt/killed.
I think the Bonzo scene though is one of the reasons I didn't care for Ender the first time reading the book. It was so violent & shocking to see Ender doing that. Sure he beat up kids earlier in the book..but the Bonzo thing....
Now though, I'm starting to like Ender better. How will I feel when I read that part again? I guess like I said: feel a little sorry for the jerk and feel happy that Ender doesn't get hurt/killed.
Anyway, on a completly different subject, I've heard serveal people mention Songmaster now and I realize that I never read that book. Is it really good? Should I read it after Ender's Game or after Speaker & Xenocide?
Oh and I've also never read Hart's Hope. What about that one? Is it good?
DF2506 " I've read: the Ender series, the Shadow series, Alvin maker series, Empire, Lost Boys, Pastwatch, Maps in the Mirror, First Meetings, Enchantment, Lovelock, Homebody, Memory of Earth, Wyrms, and Treasure Box."
Posts: 128 | Registered: Sep 2004
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It is a good book, Songmaster. A bit inaccurate though.
But Ender, I love that kid. If Bonzo would have just left Ender alone, or put his anger in the right place... Plus, the teachers in charge except that one teacher knew what was going to happen and could have prevented it. They could have sent Bonzo away to another assignment. They could have stepped in and helped him instead of allowing Ender to be cornered that way. But they didn't and a young man died. I hate their whole, well, you got to break a few eggs to save humanity approach. The last thing you want to do when fighting a war or battle is become worst than your enemy. You want to have the moral high ground, that smug feeling of knowing you didn't stoop so low as to do the sort of things Anderson and company did. They traumatize and tormented several children, caused the death of various soldiers and made Ender have to carry all the pain. The bugger Queen forgives him, why can't he have forgiven himself? Probably because he's good and good guys are like that, but it's frustrating to me.
Now I am up to the part where he joins Novinha's family for the first time. I hope if I start a family we won't be messed up. I have issues from the past I'd like to deal with to avoid such a thing. No way I want any child of mine walking around with venom passing it down to other kids. No way.
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Some of the homosexual elements. But it's quite good nontheless
When I start to think about it, there's a lot of parellels between Evangelion and Ender's Game in a way.
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I just finished rereading children of the mind and something always bothered me in that book that i couldn't put my finger on till this time. The admiral of the lusitainia fleet is named bobby lands. What kind of name is that for someone who is suppose to commit xenocide? I mean Ender the xenocide sounded cool, even Andrew wiggin but i don't think people would have vilified Ender the xenocide if he was Andy the xenocide.
Posts: 11 | Registered: Apr 2007
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I don't agree. The point isn't that you have to have a great name to be a xenocide, but that any person with responsibility over a xenocidal weapon who is just doing their job could be thrust into a situation such as that and do their job flawlessly. Its not the name that made Ender the xenocide, but how perfectly he destroyed the buggers. Ender's name was just plain too cool for OSC not to use.
To prove my point take the most common surname in America. Jones. It might not sound sinister alone, but what does the name Jonestown remind you of. Its the actions that people attach to the name not the other way around.
Posts: 197 | Registered: Jan 2007
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When I reread EG I like to pay extra attention to the chapter intros. Figure out who's saying what, in what time relation to the rest of the story, how it reflects on other dialogue by the characters, etc.
Currently re-reading Empire and Red Prophet. Recently re-read EG. Recently read Hart's Hope and Lovelock. Next reread to be Hart's Hope. Next read to be (hopefully) Stone Tables, Space Boy.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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Ender had to deal with Bonzo that way. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have been Ender. The whole idea is that he beats the enemy not just today, but forever. The only way to be sure against retaliation is to ensure the enemy cannot retaliate.
Posts: 39 | Registered: Apr 2007
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I re-read the part with Ender vs. Bonzo and all the way to the part where Ender is headed off to command school.
I thought I would feel sorry for Bonzo during the Ender fight, but I didn't feel sorry for him at all. I actually felt sorry for ENDER. It was a terrible thing he did, but like Timoty said, he HAD to deal with Bonzo that way. He had no other choice! The teachers and Bonzo cornered him and made him do it. I felt sorry for Ender there and then again when they used Valentine YET AGAIN to get at him....
You know, I'm liking this book even more this read through. There's just so much to it that I didn't notice before (for some reason). Poor Ender..
DF2506 " Next part: Ender meets his Teacher! "
Posts: 128 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Some of the homosexual elements. But it's quite good nontheless
When I start to think about it, there's a lot of parellels between Evangelion and Ender's Game in a way.
What was innaccurate about the elements of homosexuality?
It just sort of.. was... it's been a while since I read the book though. Perhaps it's the whole gays harping on young boys thing that bugs me...
Bonzo had honour, and yet, he was trying to beat up a naked little kid. I just come to such odd conclusions about OSC's books. Like the way the masses in some cases are such.... well, they are not very bright in a lot of cases. Branding a 12 year old boy as evil when he was just the gun in these people's hands, not the mastermind, tearing down the trees of their own village and destroying their neighbourhood aliens. Stuff like that, but at the same time, the common man is shown to be... wiser than folks in charge. They are mostly concerned with raising their kids, religion and just living. But then you have people like Ender who are concerned with the larger picture and have to sacrifice something as a result of it. Also, unmarried folks sometimes tend to be a bit immature and rude (Gredo, his sister.) And I sometimes tend to disagree with some of the points and agree with others, sometimes in different degrees, a weird mixture of yes, this is right, and no, that's not quite right. Like the concept of fighting being what created civilization or helped humanity to raise from the muck. I totally would disagree with Valentine about that. I think people became people when they could sit still, tell stories, have a history together, when people could just get OLD and look out for the younger generation. When folks have to run away all the time and fight there's not enough time to spend with children, or create music and stories which is what REALLY makes people whole... Or perhaps I just want to destroy totally the concept of might makes right which I don't think we NEED now. I tend to agree and disagree with some of OSC's views on sex and marriage at the same time. Traditional marriage makes me brisel, even though the idea of commitment appeals to me...
Perhaps I will go on about that in a later post, as I am rambling.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I read the part where Ender first meets Mazer last night and all the way up to the part where Ender hears from his friends/teammates again! So I'm very close to being done with the book. I'm kind of taking my time with Ender's Game this time. I think thats one of the reasons I'm noticing stuff more in it.
Anyway, after I finish Ender's Game I've decided I'm going to read Speaker For the Dead again. Looking forward to that a lot!
DF2506 " Although, if Terry Brooks new book Elves of Cintra shows up at my local library next week Ender or Speaker might get interupted. lol. Really want to read that, but I bet my library won't get it.... *sigh* "
Posts: 128 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I read from Ender's training at Command school to a little after he finds out the truth about the 'game'.
On one hand, you can see why the adults did it, but on the other hand...it was a horrible thing they did to Ender. Sure it wasn't the first of the horrible things, but it was prob the worst. To have that much guilt on him.....
Sure its their fault for putting him in that situation, but he made the orders. He played the 'game'....
So I'm pretty close to the end of the book. Soon I'll finish it and then start reading Speaker For the Dead. I'll post those comments in this thread too (and to stay on topic, I'll try to compare Ender in Speaker vs. Ender in Ender's Game and other things).
DF2506 " Ender's Game is definitly a better book then I remembered."
Posts: 128 | Registered: Sep 2004
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It's a great book, but it really was horrible what the adults did do all of those kids (again, Evangelion comes to mind) It's not like Ender was a grown man like a Nazi who knew he was doing something wrong and chose to follow orders anyway when he could have done the right thing and saved those people. Ender was an exausted burned out little boy who had been through more than a kid that age should have to go through. Heck, they were wrong for starting the battle school in the first place and emphasising survival of the fittest jungle instincts in boys that are subceptable to that sort of thing. He was unaware of what was going on because he was lied to and told this was just a training episode, so he really shouldn't blame himself and neither should anyone else. Always the real people who are responsible for things get away with murder and everything else. It's so much easier to blame someone "weak", someone who is basically on some level a pawn in the game than to look at the masterminds.
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I have yet to sit down and read the entire Ender series (anything past Enders Game really), but I recently completed the Shadow series... I almost hate OSC for completing every last character so definatly and vividly. It means that they are completely done.
Posts: 17 | Registered: Aug 2007
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He has mentioned two more books so far: a linker novel taking place after Children of the Mind, working title "Shadows in Flight", that has Bean's offspring connecting with the Lusitanians; and a book that follows Achilles Jr., working title "Ender in Exile", which somehow has the last Bean-baby meeting Ender.
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While I'm sure Ender in Exile will be really good (and I can't wait to read about Ender again), I think I'm looking forward to 'Shadows In Flight' the most of the two! I really want to know what's going to happen there! Hopefully OSC will get around to both books soon...
Anyway, I finished Ender's Game and I'm now reading Speaker For the Dead! My impression of Ender's Game? Great book! I think I finally see why people like it a lot.
As for Speaker For the Dead, I'm not too far into it yet. I've only gotten to the part where Pipo is found dead. Powerful book.
DF2506 " I think my favorite part of this book and Xenocide is the interaction between Ender and the children. Just good stuff. Though I do like the piggie and bugger stuff too."
Posts: 128 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I've reread all eight Ender novels (and all nine SSs), all six Alvin Maker novels as well as Lost Boys Treasure Box, and Hart's Hope, enjoy eacgh (well, not TB) more when I reread it.
And I reread with guso. Back in HS I lost track of the number of readings I'd gone over EG and SFTD after about fifty times each, back when I used to bang out a reading in a matter of hours. I analyzed each one six ways to Sunday, and it was great. I still can't read the conclusion of SotG without crying.
I was always fascinated by the theme of characters who "should" and "should not" exist. Many characters in the series "should not" have existed, for one reason or another: Ender, a third Bean, an experiment The Godspoken of Path The entire Lusitanian ecology and... The Descolada responsible for it Si Wang-mu, the superintelligent non-Godspoken Young Val and Young Peter, plus... Miro's restored body Jane, the "bridge" Bean and Petra's many stolen/Anton's keyed children Achilles, a murderous psychopath who could have been stopped
Posts: 16 | Registered: Aug 2007
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I'm sorry but this part of the book BOTHERED ME. I can put aside all of the stuff that frustrated me about the series except this that I noticed in my latest reading.
I stayed with the wrong man," Said Novinha. "No, You stayed with the right one. Your Libo, he had a wife and other children-she was the one, they were the ones who had a right to claim him. You stayed with another man for your children's sake, even though they hated him somEtimes, they also loved him, and even though in some ways he was weak, in other ways he was strong. It was good for you to have him for their sake. It was a kind of protection for them all along."
Perhaps it's illogical, but Marcao was ABUSIVE. The children were aware of it. It affected all of them in unhealthy ways. I cannot possibly see how staying with man that is abusive can be good for those kids. Yes, Novinha thought she deserved to be beaten, and Marcao was angry about her infidelity and his sickness, but it isn't an excuse. Staying with an abusive man doesn't make the family stable. That's an unhealthy myth. If a person is abusive they will only change if they want to change. I know OSC is a big believer in the santity of marriage, and marriages staying together no matter what, but this isn't the case when it comes to abuse. Children are negatively affected by abusive situations like that. Maybe it's weird to quibble over random parts of fictional stories that do not completely reflect the writer's world view, (I can think of one part that aggravated me) but I feel like Valentine completely downgraded the sort of horrible abuse Novinha was experiencing and what it did to the children. (And where was Libo in all of this? Wasn't he aware?) There's no way leaving an abusive man, an unhealthy situation that is poisoning the family is better than staying in it for the sake of a stable marriage. Furthermore, all it does is teach a girl that it's OK to be with an abusive man, to suffer under his rule if it means having the appearance of a stable family and it tells young men it's OK to be abusive. It's not a good way to build up healthy families. And it's one of those unhealthy concepts that need to die to build a better society.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I re-read Ender's Game about once every six months. Just finished re-reading it, and the Bean series afterwards. Such good stuff. Then I re-read the novella of Ender's Game.
Truly one of my favorite works of all time.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Oct 2007
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Whenever I reread Ender's Game, Valentine just breaks my heart. I fall completely in love with her with each reread.
Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2004
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I've re-read Ender's Game a number of times.....also a few times in Spanish. I need to Get a copy In porteguese. Thinking of learning German....is it out in German yet?
Posts: 147 | Registered: Aug 2003
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