posted
Now I wonder, if Peter had recieved the education would he have been able to defeat the Formics? I think he could because he has the charms to win allies if he wants and he has the intelligence, and given a war education I bet he could. What do you guys think?
I understand people do not tend to follow him because of his conceited attitude and sarcasm, but I'm sure if that became a problem with him being followed in B.S. he would have changed his ways to gain power.
So could he?
Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
No. A key aspect of Ender's victory is his empathy. It allowed Ender to understand an enemy completely and anticipate future actions. Not to mention Ender had the devotion of his subordinates. They trusted him completely and because of that Ender could use them to the peak of their abilities and because he understood them put them in the position to best utilize their unique talents.
Mazer noted that Ender's fleet acted liked the Formics except far better. Where-as the Formics could only come up with brilliant solution at a time Enders could come up with several at the same time. A fleet led by Peter wouldn't have that advantage and would have to rely on Peters intellect alone. In that case they would have been better off with Bean because he was far smarter.
Posts: 796 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't disagree with what has already been said, but there is the issue of timing. They needed entrants into Battle School to be very young.
At that young age, Peter was uncontrollable. He could have never functioned in battle school effectively.
However, Peter in later years, in the years surrounding the continuing Shadow/Bean series, I think that Peter could have done it.
The books don't come right out and say it, but the strongly hint that Peter is manipulating the world behind the scenes. He is letting wars start and people be killed, because he know this will take him down the path needs for ultimate victory. He is very masterful at strategy.
So, I think if slightly older Peter had gotten the proper training, he would have stood a very good chance of winning.
But as has been pointed out, Ender had a mind that let him see deeper into the Formics than anyone else. I'm not sure anyone could have beaten that.
quote:At that young age, Peter was uncontrollable. He could have never functioned in battle school effectively.
Good point. Graff's entire approach relied on being able to convince Ender of two things: That the cause he was fighting for was worth it, and that in order to win he had to do what he was told. Peter certainly would have accepted the first part, probably even more so than Ender since Peter would have wanted to become a famous hero, in addition to saving humanity. But he never would have gone along with the second; his conviction (like Bean's, just with less justification) would have been that he himself knew best how to win the war. In short, Peter was almost uniquely unsuited for Graff's just-playing-a-game deception scheme.
It's idle to speculate if that approach was really the be-all end-all way to victory, but as it was the one the IF had committed to, and as the IF was the only available weapon to fight the war with, I don't see how Peter could have contributed anything.
Posts: 96 | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote: Graff's entire approach relied on being able to convince Ender of two things: That the cause he was fighting for was worth it, and that in order to win he had to do what he was told.
I don't think the second part is true. Mazer definitely cut off the idea of destroying the Bugger's homeworld when Ender broached the idea. It was implied, at least, that Ender should not use the MD Device against a world.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
True, I didn't think of that. Probably because that scene never really made sense to me... I take it you interpret it as Mazer wanting Ender to do exactly what he ended up doing, and figuring the best way to get him to do it was to tell him not to (thus causing him to "cheat" as he did in the final battleroom battle)?
Mazer's prep talk is, incidentally, taken pretty much as-is from the short story version, where I think its import is entirely different though: The enemy is less dangerous and the situation less desparate than they are (believed to be) in the novel, so Mazer simply means what he says; he wants Ender to destroy the fleet but not the planet, winning the war with as little collateral damage as possible.
Posts: 96 | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
I never understood that scene very well either.
One way it could make sense is that Mazer has privately concluded that the buggers are no longer a threat and doesn't want total xenocide on his conscience.
Another explanation is that planet destruction is against rules of war and instructing Ender to destroy the planet would make a war criminal of Mazer (and possibly others) and so, to avoid personal consequences, Mazer chooses to risk losing the war.
Neither of the above two seems to have any support in the text, from what I recall. And I'm not sure they really fit with the overjoyed reaction to the victory and total lack of recrimination (pre-"The Hive Queen").
Perhaps a more coherent explanation, though also one that lacks direct support (again, to my recollection), is that they were nervous about what would happen when the MD device was used on a planet. Maybe they had no idea whether it would work; perhaps they were worried about causing a supernova that would impact nearby systems as well (perhaps including Earth); perhaps some theorized that it would destabilize matter in the entire galactic sector.
Revising the scene to remove the instruction not to blow up the planet might involve a tradeoff: I think it was important to Card to have Ender at the end of his rope at this point, and going against orders is the illustration. In my opinion the race between finishing the war and Ender's complete breakdown works pretty well, but I wouldn't be sad if it were different. There's a hint of melodrama about the "he gave everything he had, and it was only just enough."
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
Mazer's face went rigid. "Ender, the buggers never attacked a civilian population in either invasion. You decide whether it would be wise to adopt a strategy that would invite reprisals."
The first two invasions were wars of Conquest. Up until Ender blew up the Bugger Home world so was third Invasion. If Ender fails in his attempt then the buggers will have no choice but to retaliate with a strike to destroy Earth. There would be only 70 years to get as many people off planet as possible.
Posts: 796 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yeah, I don't mind at all anyways, since the topics of my threads are merely do get discussions flowing.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
