posted
Does anybody have a source for OSC's quote that Iran plans to destroy Tel Aviv once they develop nuclear weapons (http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2010-08-15-1.html)? I realize that Card is firmly pro-Israel, but I don't think he would manufacture such a quote. I've been looking for awhile and any corroboration for this quote would be helpful. Thanks!
EDIT: After more research, it seems that Card's entire column is either nothing but a propaganda piece or he can't source his quotes because they all came from fringe sites stretching facts and quotes beyond the breaking point. For somebody who sparked much of my early interest in world history, it's strange to see Card be so dogmatic in his support for one nation or blatantly ignore so much context and history in his column. For example, counting all Arab actions as terrorism or unprovoked attacks, while all Israeli actions were reasonable responses to unprovoked aggression, ignoring a chain of causality and occasional bad behavior on both sides. Viewed through a highly selective lens this column is as absurd as being so anti-Israel that any action against its citizens is seen as justified.
posted
I honestly have no idea. I already know that OSC has little patience for Muslims (remember, he DID say that brown people are basically responsible for terrorism because of their race, they all have terrorist relatives they're not rooting out and should get special scrutiny at the airport), and very much views foreign policy through an American exceptionalist lens which dignifies human rights abuses and illegal violations of rule of law. So naturally OSC is going to interpret any sort of balanced look at this conflict and any legitimate abuses on Israel's side as anti-Semitism, as if a military semisuperpower which we're spending millions and millions to arm every year is in any danger of getting marched to the gas chambers anytime soon.
The best thing I can determine is that Iran's pledges to defend themselves are being taken as statements that they have nuclear weapons and are trying to kill everybody, but I have yet to find an official statement in the media. It seems that the Powers That Be are eager to start a war with Iran and are determined to use the words "Iran" and "nuclear" as often as possible in headlines to create subconscious association in the American mind and rally support for another expensive, dehumanizing and (above all) profitable war for those who profit from that sort of thing. I'd love to see a mature, sourced treatment of this topic without gratuitous self-righteousness and cribbing from vapid talking points.
Posts: 127 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:he DID say that brown people are basically responsible for terrorism because of their race
Where?
quote:they all have terrorist relatives they're not rooting out
I remember him saying that moderate Muslims have a responsibility to cull fanaticism from their congregations; I don't remember him talking about your interpretation.
quote:and should get special scrutiny at the airport
This part's true.
quote:and very much views foreign policy through an American exceptionalist lens which dignifies human rights abuses and illegal violations of rule of law.
I'm not sure what you mean here: OSC came out pretty strongly against torture being used against our enemies. As far as exceptionist: yes. America is more trustworthy than Iran especially regarding the stewardship of nuclear weapons. Most countries--even Russia, for crying out loud-- recognize this as not just Western propaganda, but as an actual fact.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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"Might loyal American citizens of Middle-eastern appearance resent being given "special" treatment at airport security gates? Maybe. But the solution is not to abuse everybody. We're at war. If you resemble potential enemies, you get special scrutiny. If you don't like it, then GET ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE YOU to band together to detect and report on all the crazies among you who approve of blowing up airplanes or killing Americans by other methods, until the danger is eliminated."
Are you a Muslim with no ties to terrorism, or an American citizen? Too bad, darkie, get in line for the pat down. The threat of terrorism will never be reduced (because it's so valuable for political leverage - as with the "war on drugs," the "war on terror" will never end) so OSC basically suggests the creation of secondary citizen races in America.
Posts: 127 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
There are a lot of things that Card says that I firmly disagree with. Luckily, I don't have to agree with the man to enjoy his writing. Posts: 6 | Registered: Sep 2010
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posted
Are you looking for an explicit quote of Ahmadinejad saying they plan to destroy Tel Aviv? I don't know of any offhand, but there are certainly plenty of quotes showing that he's a crazy genocidal maniac who would like nothing better than to eradicate Israel entirely.
But not Tel Aviv specifically, though. So I guess there is that.
Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
This might help about Tel Aviv specifically
quote: It's Not Just About Israel Six more reasons why we can't let Iran get nukes. By Christopher Hitchens
...
The keyword of the current anguished argument—the word existential—is thought by a strategic majority of Israel's political and military leadership to apply in its fullest meaning. To them, an Iranian bomb is incompatible with the long-term survival of the Israeli state and even of the Jewish people.
It would be a real pity if the argument went on being conducted in these relatively narrow terms. A sentence from Goldberg's report will illustrate what I mean:
quote: Israel, Netanyahu told me, is worried about an entire complex of problems, not only that Iran, or one of its proxies, would destroy Tel Aviv.
Why Tel Aviv? It is admittedly the most Jewish of Israel's centers of population, and it was built only in the course of the last century. It is also the most secular and modern and sexually licentious of Israel's cities, which might also qualify it for the apocalyptic wrath of the mullahs. But it is also home to many Arabs and Muslims, as are the coastal towns adjacent to it. And, as I never tire of pointing out, there is no weapon of mass destruction yet devised that can discriminate on the basis of religion or ethnicity.
So why did Netanyahu not say Jerusalem, which he and his party regard as Israel's true capital? Surely because this would immediately raise the question of whether the Iranian theocracy seriously intends to immolate the Dome of the Rock and the other Islamic holy places along with the poisonous "Zionist entity." And that's to say nothing of the number of Palestinians who would be slaughtered in any such assault.
posted
Personal attacks against posters, to say nothing about the proprietor of the forum are against the TOS. Please refrain from making posts like this.
Posts: 1194 | Registered: Jun 2010
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My apologies - I do understand that put-downs are unnecessary, and as somebody who's both defended and criticized OSC in various capacities on this forum I have to give him credit for tolerating some pretty strong personal disagreements despite the obvious power he would have to delete them.
I guess I'll give the final word on just what bothers me so much - Card clearly sees habeas corpus as false manners and lies, a weak idea from effete liberal intellectuals, and not a founding principle of our nation. He sometimes argues for individual rights (such as his support for amnesty for illegal immigrants), though clearly this doesn't come from a love of individual rights themselves or rule of law as Card supports government social engineering for purposes of racial profiling (http://hatrack.com/osc/reviews/everything/2010-02-28.shtml) and to quash gay marriage (http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2004-02-15-1.html).
Oh, and I really can't share this enough:
quote:Might loyal American citizens of Middle-eastern appearance resent being given "special" treatment at airport security gates? Maybe. But the solution is not to abuse everybody. We're at war. If you resemble potential enemies, you get special scrutiny. If you don't like it, then get all the other people who look like you to band together to detect and report on all the crazies among you who approve of blowing up airplanes or killing Americans by other methods, until the danger is eliminated.
Right.
No words for nearly a decade on secret prisons, illegal detention of prisoners without charges, thousands of ours and tens of thousands of theirs killed on false pretenses, demonization of Muslims and a neverending War on Terror that has enabled atrocities and created new enemies (and new "terrorists") the world over. But Barack Obama? Oh, he's "spitting" on the Constitution, not in his continuation of these unconscionable policies but because of his dishonest but comparatively minor skirting of Constitutional procedure in an appointment loophole (Worldwatch, 19 Sept 2010).
Oh, but those people that don't like Tyler Perry movies? Racist wannabe intellectuals, the lot (http://www.hatrack.com/osc/reviews/everything/2007-10-21.shtml)! Card sees intolerance and kneejerk reactivism absolutely everywhere, everywhere except within himself. People aren't that easily categorized and dismissed.
As somebody who found Card's fictional and nonfictional writings and analysis enthralling through the 80s and 90s, I have to wonder if this OSC always existed or if I didn't see it until recently. I won't assign any motives to the man since I can't read his emotions or internal analysis of these issues, but he seems to see the world in cartoon cliches of good and evil, of America-hating lefties arguing for the rights of terrorists and criminals, and principled hawks willing to "get the job done" no matter how many principles we step on along the way.
Anyway, I'll be out of your hair now. I hope it's clear that my leaving isn't some kind of temper tantrum but a reflection of the fact that my and OSC's worldviews and beliefs are fundamentally incompatible and I'm just making my pulse throb trying to reconcile one of my still-favorite writers saying some of the things he does.
posted
Are you looking for a clear offer to destroy Ahmadinejad said they planned to Tel Aviv? I do not know what is casual, but there are some performance, he draws heavily on a crazy madman who wants to genocide than the total elimination of Israel. However, not Tel Aviv, specifically, though. So I think there is that.
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