posted
While I'm not suggesting you leave Hatrack, I am more than willing to suggest that you leave the empty posting to this forum. Also dedicated to Orson Scott Card, and more geared toward your very unique style of posting, The Philotic Web is far more likely to accept your very unique method of expression than Hatrack is. Not to mention, you're far more likely to find friends of your own very unique persuasion at this resource.
By all means, don't leave Hatrack. If you have intelligent or insightful contributions to make, please, enrich our lives with them. Just move your emoticons and (((hugs))) to P-Web. For the sake of Hatrack's collective sanity (or, at least, our collective IQ), I beg you, take the last-post thread there. Take the hugging thread there. Take the damned emoticons there. I promise you, parties all around will be the happier for it.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Maybe you should campaign to have the name of this forum changed to "Books, Films, Food, American Culture but no smilies 'cos some of us don't like them."
I don't have a problem with emoticons. What I do have a problem with is irresponsible use and abuse of the damn things, especially when used in conjunction with the mind-numbingly idiotic threads that seem to have populated the forum in recent months.
I promise you, P-Web is far more open than I am to these sorts of very exciting and very unique methods of communication. Plus, you get colored text, and your very own pictures in your posts! Anything you want! Really, if people here get off on bright colored heads, they'll be in a 24/7 state of orgasm at P-Web.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote: Maybe you should campaign to have the name of this forum changed to "Books, Films, Food, American Culture but no smilies 'cos some of us don't like them."
And we could, like, have a symbol of a kitten with a big, red 'X' over it. Awesome idea.
posted
But Eddie, if the smilies were gone then we couldn't all use our favourite response to your posts: Posts: 2945 | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
I had a look over at the Philotic Web. Somehow I think I'm staying here.
(The only problem with a total ban on smilies is I'm never quite sure whether people will understand when I'm gently mocking / joking. I guess I just have to be content that my dry yet witty tone will come through... )
:Edit: Though I guess I could just end my posts with j/k.... :
posted
The name of the forum does not need to change, it is already "Books, Film, Food, and American Culture", it is not "Books, Film, Food, American Culture, and Giving imaginary hugs and mindless accolades to people who are essentialy just a name on an online forum".
Posts: 1458 | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Lalo, I once thought you to be harsh, irrational, and pityless, but telling them to go to pweb? Thank you for reaffirming my beliefs. I was getting a bit worried there.
Posts: 9754 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
...said the man who originated from the depths of P-Web.
T, does this mean you disagree that these empty, emoticon-and-hug-intensive (but very unique) posts aren't perfectly suited for the similar climate of P-Web?
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Oh no, they are totally appropriate for pweb. In fact, I'm pretty sure they would out-smilie them over there. But they are just so... worse at pweb.
I didn't originate from Pweb, you fool. Migrated over there once or twice maybe....
Posts: 9754 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Same difference. Once a P-Webber, always a P-Webber. It's rather like saying I trafficked with the Devil only once or twice...
Not that this should discourage you potential P-Webbers. I promise you, if you enjoy posting brightly colored heads, you were born for the place.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
And as an addendum to my original post, I'm not supporting a total ban on emoticons. The original dozen we had are, when used in moderation, perfectly appropriate for conveying a feeling. But the Gay Train and the Post-Apocalyptic Mutants need to go. As does the Toupee Man, the Seven-Up Spots, the Whore, Sleeping Beauty, the Enslaved California Grape, Satan and his Twin Brother, the Crack Addict, and no doubt several others.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Hatrack is a good place, don't get me wrong, but pweb is a little bit younger, more smilies, and suited for fluff. And don't get me wrong, pweb can be entertaining on a certain level, which is why I sometimes visit.
posted
Can someone point me to a thread that started off serious and was lead of track via smilies? I mean I know that there are plenty of fluff threads that have a whole bunch of smilies, but I can't remember any serious threads that got off track because of the smilies.
And just so you know, anyone who opens up "8 smilies in every post" deserves what they get.
posted
If they got rid of the enslaved Californian Grape then maybe OSC and Kristine Card could post more often without fear of being graped to death...
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
It's just lovely the methods some of y'all use to debate. It's not bad enough that you dislike smilies, you must inflict your views on EVERYONE.
And you have done your best to tar everyone who likes the new smilies with the "unintelligent, uninsightful, idiotic, mindless" brush.
quote: Can someone point me to a thread that started off serious and was lead of track via smilies? I mean I know that there are plenty of fluff threads that have a whole bunch of smilies, but I can't remember any serious threads that got off track because of the smilies.
I'd like to see an example, too.
Y'all are just going to hate "8 Smilies In Every Post Day."
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Of course, emoticons are art. And such art deserves its own museum for spectators to come and cherish.
Nobody's getting banned. But if people could very uniquely express their very unique personalities through very unique emoticons at P-Web, the IQ of Hatrack would be saved from decline, the suffering, very unique artists would be saved from persecution, and old curmudgeons like everyone who doesn't very uniquely express themselves through emoticons wouldn't have anyone to pick on. Everyone's happy!
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
"Gee, Eddie," says one of the founders of Philoticweb. "Glad the pweb kids have a place to go where people like you won't insult them."
That is, in a lot of ways, exactly why that forum thrives. People like you make the younger folk feel unwelcome and insecure. Not every person who loves Ender's Game feels comfortable at Hatrack.
When we created Philoticweb, like OSC with Ender's Game, we had no idea that our forum would gain such a young group. But we are actually quite pleased with the result. Thnere is already a Hatrack. Doesn't need to be a second one. But being able to provide a service for the young adults in OSC's audience in a good thing.
Posts: 3495 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Unwelcome and insecure? Gosh, I hope not. But if these kids can't express themselves except through the very unique mediums of the emoticon, by all means, why not let them very uniquely express themselves through the service you've just claimed to offer to the young adults in OSC's audience?
I have no problem with people discussing Ender's Game, or anything even remotely intellectual. And I'm not asking that Hatrack turn into Ornery-Lite. But god, save it from becoming a P-Web-Lite.
God forbid these kids feel unwelcome and insecure. If they have opinions -- or anything even remotely resembling an intelligent stance -- let them express it. If they have a funny to make, let them make it. But I'm not sure that Hatrack is better off cluttered with moronic threads very uniquely expressing their very unique opinion of " ." Are you?
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Also, you don't "balance out" bitter, cranky sniping with idiocy. You do so with intelligent posts that point out the logical fallacies of bitter, cranky sniping. Not by further infuriating the bitter, cranky snipers.
But, by all means, balance out P-Web's bitter, cranky snipers with emoticons. Heh. The place could use more.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Amka: Well said. And seriously, Hobbes and Rivka are right. Smilies never derail serious threads. In fact, they are rarely even used in serious threads. Like Rivka said, if you open a thread called "8 smilies per post" then you're just asking for it.
That said, ban the Gay Train. Now.
Posts: 2945 | Registered: Apr 2000
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It's not your forum. Most of the people I get along with best from Hatrack don't even post here anymore. So what? It wasn't smilies that drove them away. I'm pretty sure it was things like life... And stupid threads that insult a large percentage of Hatrack's community. While I rarely post in fluff threads and, at times, I find myself irritated that it can be hard to keep an interesting thread on the first page, I also think that it's great that Hatrack has brought so many people from so many different places and walks of life together in a way that has become essential to so many lives. If continuing that means smilies and fluff then so be it.
Posts: 2945 | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
My point exactly, EG. I want to keep Hatrack from becoming a homogenized mess of very unique idiocy. Hatrack's attraction, to me, has long been its balance between intellectualism and humor. Emoticons and (((hugs))) fall under neither category, and serve -- at Hatrack -- for little other purpose but simpleton amusement and space-wasting.
By all means, introduce new opinions and new people. Keep the old people. But when anyone, old or new, wants idiotic fluff, move them the hell to P-Web and let them post pretty little colored heads to their hearts' delight. Who does it hurt, exactly? More to the point, what parties involved does such a plan not help?
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
The thing we value most about Hatrack is the community it has fostered. If it just becomes a place of "anonymous" posters who never feel the need to add a little emotion every now and then, I don't think it would be worth the time or the money or the aggravation of dealing with people who start a thread only to complain about other people. So, a tip of the hat to you Lalo and a big hug to all those people who have made this a place where people dare to share their emotions as well as their opinions without fear of being stomped on. That's the kind of place that makes me way happy Kristine
posted
Eddie: I agree with you (and Ralphie, Pat and Tom on the other thread) that smilies can be used rather excessively. At the same time, I really don't think they need to be banned... I think it's more likely that the community is simply changing along with the Interweb demographic in general. Old buggers like us are just getting outdated.
quote:God forbid these kids feel unwelcome and insecure. If they have opinions -- or anything even remotely resembling an intelligent stance -- let them express it.
Just for everyone's edification, the minimum requirements for an intelligent stance is one of Lalo's. After that, the sky's the limit!
BA-DUM, DUM! Thank you, thank you, all be here all week!
quote:If it just becomes a place of "anonymous" posters who never feel the need to add a little emotion every now and then, I don't think it would be worth the time or the money or the aggravation of dealing with people who start a thread only to complain about other people.
Again, my point exactly. Perhaps I'm alone in this, but my not-very-unique self has trouble telling the difference between people whose only communication with the board are very unique emoticons. While I can't stress just how very unique these posters are, nor how very unique I'm sure they are as people, I have no idea how to tell them apart.
I don't mind emoticon use. Bob_Scopatz uses them on occasion, and he's one of the most intimate and intricate members of Hatrack. The major difference between Bob and the gaggle of emoticon-users, however, is that Bob actually contributes more to the forum than a very unique Gay Train.
Like I've repeatedly stated, I'm not looking to get anyone banned. But if people, for whatever purpose, wish to contribute little else than Post-Apocalyptic Mutant Hugs, I'm sure they'll find that function better served at P-Web than at Hatrack.
Do you disagree, Kristine?
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Yep, I disagree. If you don't like those threads, don't go there. If you don't like smilies, don't use 'em. Maybe I haven't seen the threads you are worried about, but if there is something specific that you think is so over-the-top it's hurting the community, then let our charming moderator know about it, and we can deal with it. But if it's just about keeping it more grown up around here -- then I disagree with that too. Young people are very welcome here. Sometimes they have a learning curve about what is acceptable, but a little patience and some kindness from the old crowd usually helps them adapt pretty soon.
Posts: 780 | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
The problem, Ed, aren't the smilies. The problem is that the 'serious' posters aren't that prolific. I wrote about this some time a go. People actually started trying to make more 'serious' threads, and you know what? They only got about 12 or so responses. Look at poor Mr. Squicky. He probably makes the best all around posts, but because they are so well constructed and they raise so many good points, people don't respond to them that often.
I think smilies and serious posts can and do coexist. As others have said, I haven't really seen smilies derail a thread yet. The fluff threads haven't gotten any more numerous, they're just being started by different people.
I think what we're seeing is the 'greying' of the 'serious' Hatrack population. Most of us have had certain arguments over and over again. We've heard what the other side has to say. So, there are less 'serious' threads because there is less need for them.
I'm not saying that we don't need more 'serious' threads. Golly, no! I am saying that perhaps the emphasis should be more on the non-fluff posters posting more 'serious' stuff if they want more serious stuff instead of on the fluff people to stop posting fluff.
There is room for both sides here.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I don't disagree that there isn't room for fluff at Hatrack. I'm just worried that fluff is overwhelming -- if it hasn't already overwhelmed -- Hatrack. And I think the playing field can be leveled to a great extent by getting rid of useless and obnoxious emoticons like the Gay Train or the Dancing Seven-Up Spots.
They were a sweet gift, Kristine, but utterly impractical. Thank you for the consideration, but I really must request that you remove them. If people have a need to express their very unique opinions through very unique emoticons, they're more than welcome to do so at P-Web. Somehow, I don't think many at Hatrack will be deprived of enlightenment.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote: But the Gay Train and the Post-Apocalyptic Mutants need to go. As does the Toupee Man, the Seven-Up Spots, the Whore, Sleeping Beauty, the Enslaved California Grape, Satan and his Twin Brother, the Crack Addict, and no doubt several others.
posted
Lalo, what we're trying to tell you is that we so far have not seen any negative effect from the smilies, and if people like them, why would they be removed for no cause? I'd be interested in you detailing exactly what you think the smilies are specifically doing that would not happen without them.
posted
Eddie, do you feel like you have any more right to be here and be yourself than anyone else on the forum? Do you feel like you're in a place to say you "really must request" anything and have your wishes honored?
It's baffling to me. Frankly, if "serious posters" means members who have been here so long that they think they can dictate what people should and should not do around here, then I sincerely hope I'm not counted as one of them.
Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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