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Author Topic: I am afraid of myself.
Primal Curve
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Lately, I've become increasingly afraid of myself and the decisions I make in my life. I'm currently riding on a high point in my life, but the fear of it crashing down, once again, is constant.

Ever since I got out of high school, I've been living on a roller coaster. One month I'm well-fed, comfortable and loved. The next I'm stuck in a deep rut I can't get out of. It all stems from one thing: my inability to get up in the morning.

I've had this problem for years, but it's been getting worse and worse these past few years. I have absolutely no desire to get up. I have to keep multiple alarms running just to insure that I do wake up. I've been known to sleep in as much as 3 to 4 hours, and I can put in a night's sleep of as much as 24 (if you can even call it a "night's" worth of sleep).

I constantly let down employers. People hire me because I'm energetic, responsible and good with people. I'm very intelligent and I easily adapt to any working environment. My only problem is tardiness. It is literally the only problem I have. I've been fired tons of times for that reason and that reason alone. It's almost enough for me to get up in arms about the whole thing, but I do understand how punctuality is important.

This morning I was running really, really late for work. I got so worked up about it, I sprinted from my apartment to the bus stop and ended up puking my guts out while the bus came and went. I then called into work where I was told I needed a doctor's excuse to miss work that day. Well, I have no way of getting a doctor's excuse because I don't have a doctor and my insurance doesn't kick in until I've worked for 6th months. So I'm probably going to be written up again for being absent despite the fact that I felt like crap all day long.

I don't see how people can get up in the morning. I don't see how, with even 8 hours of sleep, someone can just hop up and be ready to go. I can shut off alarms in my sleep, causing me to constantly keep them on the move around my room so that I can't just shut them off subconsciously. I've tried everything I can think of to make myself get to work on time.

I also cannot rely on myself to get to work even if I've been awake for awhile. I push everything until the last second and wind up late. I have no real sense of time so I think that something simple will take no time at all when it takes far longer than I really expected.

I wouldn't be suprised if I suffer from some kind of depression. My mother deals with this a lot and I probably inherited it from her. I also am diagnosed with ADD, but haven't touched meds since the 7th grade. They had some nasty side effects that I absolutely hated.

Anyways, I guess I'm kind of asking for help. I want to do something about this but I have no idea where to go or what to do.

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Primal Curve
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I'm probably not going to sleep tonight.
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ClaudiaTherese
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PC, do you snore? Could you have sleep apnea -> chronic sleep deprivation?

(My husband did, despite the fact that he was quite tall and slim. I used to have to drag him to a sitting position and bring the coffee cup to his face.)

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ClaudiaTherese
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Call your local mental health clinic for a depression screening. In any decent-sized city, there are services available, even if you cannot pay more than a nominal fee. Email me or mack if you want more specific help. [Frown]

(((PrimalCurve)))

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Danzig
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Well, I can offer you no real advice, but if it helps I too hate mornings (or sometimes afternoons:)). No matter how long I sleep, I hate getting up.
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ClaudiaTherese
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PC, are you safe for tonight?
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Da_Goat
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I don't know your eating habits, but have you considered getting off caffeine completely, even if it's just mug of coffee in the morning? I have some friends and relatives that are still affected that night from a small cup of coffee.

You could also try doing something that requires very little thinking for an hour before bed, like watch TV.

I don't usually wake up in the morning either, but I do that more by choice and freedom than by instinct.

If neither of those work, have you considered getting a job that with early-afternoon to night hours?

[ March 08, 2004, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: Da_Goat ]

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Primal Curve
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Yeah, I'm not suicidal (if that's what you mean.) I have been before, but it's pretty easy to fend off. I had a really close friend kill himself and memories of that time don't make me excited about the whole thing.
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Book
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You threw up from sprinting, or from something else?
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ClaudiaTherese
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Okay. I am up all night anyway, so I want you to be able to reach me if that changes. Tell them I'm expecting your call. I'm "mole" tonight (overnight call), so they shouldn't be troubled about disturbing me. They know I'm up.

How about you talk to me, mack, or Theca in more depth about this later?

[ March 08, 2004, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]

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Primal Curve
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CT,

I do snore. It runs in the fam. You should hear my father, uncles and grandfathers. It's insane.

Da_Goat,

Your comments about caffiene speak to me. I'm a complete addict but don't always intake much. I had a few cans of Pepsi last night and that may have had some effect on this morning.

As to working 2nd or 3rd shift jobs, it really doesn't make a difference. My sleep cycle just shifts to waking up just before I need to start getting ready for work.

Book,

I have a feeling it has something to do with the food I ate last night. My girlfriend (who didn't have to work today) also didn't feel very well this morning.

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ClaudiaTherese
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You probably need to be assessed for obstructive sleep apnea, which can be associated with excessive daytime sleepiness. It also is associated with hypertension and a risk for bad stuff in some cases, so it needs to be taken seriously.

Unfortunately, it's an expensive test, so it would likely have to wait for insurance to kick in. But there are things to do meanwhile.

Does anyone ever sleep with you? Does your chest heave a bit and make you gasp for air, or do you periodically kick your legs about?

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Bumpy
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Well.. i've been in this situation before, kinda on and off- I've had the problem with school lately. Almost got kicked out of a class..

I found my self asking... Well, what do I have to wake up for? Am I happy with my life? I know i'm energetic and a great worker and have fun.. but am I happy? Is there anything that makes me -want- to wake up in the morning?
I still have a bit of a problem, but it's getting better.. because I think about this girl, and I tell myself, if I get up, i'm going to get to see this girl. And just that sometimes has the power to get me to at least sit up..

What is there to get up for in your life, PC?

Bump.

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ClaudiaTherese
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Hi, Bumpy. Welcome to Hatrack. [Smile]
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Bumpy
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Thanks.

Bump.

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Primal Curve
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My girlfriend sometimes sleeps with me. I don't really know if that would happen. I have only a twin size bed so I don't really get a normal sleep cycle during those nights.

I do have a rediculously powerful fear of suffocation/drowning. It makes me unbelievably strong in a dunking contest and prevents me from being able to sleep with anything covering my breathing passages. It also makes a stuffed nose a little bit more uncomfortable than normal. I've had asthma for a long time so I could probably chalk it up to that.

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ClaudiaTherese
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Okay. Call me if you get to that point where, well, where you need to talk. I'm going to delete my contact info in a minute.

I'll be in and out through the night. Take care, Glynn.

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skillery
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When the alarm goes off in the morning, I don't get up right away. I lie in bed and stretch. I mentally go through my day in advance, looking for something at work to look forward to, and looking for something after work to look forward to.

Sometimes the only thing positive I can find about going to work is that I will be wearing my favorite shirt. But even the thought of wearing my favorite shirt is often enough to get me out of bed and get started with my day. I need six favorite shirts and a whole bunch of little rewards throughout the day to keep me motivated.

I make my own rewards, such as a good book to read during my breaks, magazines that are delivered to my work mailbox, and a minimized web browser set to the Hatrack Forum on my desktop.

Cheers.

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Eaquae Legit
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I'm with CT - my first suspect would be the sleep apnea. My mom snored like a truck and never ever felt rested until her doctor had a brainwave and sent her for an assessment at the local sleep clinic. Turns out she was stopping breathing something like 30-45 times an hour. And each time it would disrupt her sleep so that she never managed to get to those necessary and restful levels. No wonder she was always tired! Now she's on a machine that pushes air into her nasal passages at a slightly higher pressure than normal. It's enough to keep her breathing the night through, and she's WAY happier now.

It really stinks that your insurance won't kick in for a while yet, but I'd investigate this possibility when you get the chance.

As to alarms, I think my mom had the best idea - when I would refuse to get up, she'd bring my baby brother downstairs and plunk him on my head. This was especially effective if he needed to be changed. [Grumble]

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Danzig
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Perhaps some advice after all, ironically when I have insomnia.

What time do you have to get up for work? How many hours of sleep do you get before you get up? If you can get into a rhythm of going to bed at the same time then that can help keep your amount of sleep grounded. Certainly some jobs have weird hours so this might not work but if you can get away with ten hours of sleep, you should try it. Most people need 8 hours, but not all.

Try to start the week off on this new routine if you do not already. Most sleep aids are good for a night or two but not much longer, and for some of them you had better not take them and expect to get up in four hours. Is the sleep-debt theory still the latest? If so, try to catch up on sleep the next day you have off. If you do not exercise then that might be something to pick up.

None of this will help you wanting to get out of bed, but you might find that you like doing that more if you got more sleep.

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Primal Curve
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So I stayed up all night and got into work nice and early. I even had time to drop off the rent check this morning (I was obviously late on that one). So I'm here and I'm tired, but I'm used to that. I've pulled so many all nighters in my time that I've completely lost count. Come about noon I'll be craving sleep really badly. I'll most likely sleep during the bus ride home. Unfortunately, I have worship practice tonight so I won't be able to sleep until 9 or 10. On the other hand, I don't have to be anywhere tomorrow so I'll be able to sleep as much as I want (which will be a long freaking time).
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Primal Curve
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If I could just figure out how to get my hands on a doctor's excuse, I'd be home free.
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imogen
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Now that's where you need a doctor for a mother. Not that I'd ever abuse that privilege.
Never.

Actually, I did have a bit of a look for you - the only two things I could find was either sleeplessness as caused by sleep apnea (as already mentioned by actual doctors) or oversleeping, along with overeating as signs of clinical depression. Not sure that's much help.

On an aside, having a GP for a family member isn't that much help - I had a broken foot for 3 months before Mum conceded there might be something actually wrong. And I had glandular fever for 4 months before she took me to have blood tests...

Of course, now I've moved out of home and have a GP of my own she's paranoid - go figure.

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PSI Teleport
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I agree that caffeine TOTALLY messes up your sleep cycle. My husband used to drink two or more pots of coffee a day, and soda on top of that. He was really late for work for a long time despite the fact that he's a hard worker. He wouldn't remember turning the alarms off, so I would have to wake up myself and then wake him up, because he couldn't get up at all. He would be so tired in the morning that he would fix it with more coffee, and so goes the cycle.

But he would say, "I never drink coffee in the evenings." But caffeine stays in your system for a long time, 24 hours or so I think. He started making only one pot of caff coffee, and then started making half-caff, or one caff and one decaf. It took alot for him to even TRY drinking "that foul decaf" but Folger's had a really good one and he gave in. Now he sleeps much better and gets up with the alarm.

Anyway, that's our story! [Big Grin]

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TomDavidson
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Glenn, I've got three pieces of advice:

1) Have yourself checked for apnea. My dad's got it, too, and he's never slept better than until recently, when he started getting treatment. He used to have so much trouble sleeping at normal times that he eventually found a job that allowed him to leave for work at three in the morning, because this fit better into his sleep patterns. Now that those patterns have "normalized," though, the job is grating on him a bit.

2) Remember the concept of sleep debt. Pulling an overnighter so you can go to work the next morning is pretty much guaranteeing that you won't be able to go to work the morning after next. Your body gets worn out, and needs to catch up on both muscle relaxation and dreaming sleep. Consequently, you are MUCH better off setting a regular bedtime -- 9:30 is pretty generous for someone our age -- and sticking to it, no matter what. I'll admit that this concept is hard for me, too, and I also had enormous problems getting to work on time when I was younger; nowadays, with a wife whom I have to drive to work, I find myself forced awake even if I don't want to be -- which helps. One thing you might consider is not reading or watching TV until, say, 9PM, and setting a strict limit of half an hour on that activity; you can set a light on a timer to guarantee that you can't drag it out just "one more chapter."

3) Speaking of lights on timers, Christy recently dropped $40 on one of those alarm clocks that slowly ramps up a light and a soft sound over a period of about half an hour; it really does help to wake us up gently, although my own biorhythms are generally so strong that I'm usually awake enough when the thing STARTS humming softly to be fully aware of it.

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Primal Curve
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I am a very heavy sleeper. It takes all the bells and trumpets of heaven to get me up in the morning. You should see my primary alarm clock. In fact, I think I'll post the thing. It's a monster.
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pooka
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I think Tom has an interesting point in having a regular bedtime.

I read a book once called Sleep Thieves . It referred to how we steal time from sleep to do other stuff.

Another thought would be Chronic Fatigue, but I don't know much about it.

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katharina
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I haven't used an alarm in years. My internal alarm clock wakes me up whether I want to or not. The only exceptions is if I got less than four hours before 7:30 the night after a night of little sleep.

And...no caffiene. Is this why?

[ March 08, 2004, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]

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Farmgirl
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PC

You are exactly like my middle son (who is 16). He also formerly was diagnosed with ADD, although the meds never helped him much. We have pretty much narrowed all his behaviors down to lack of decent rest. Including him dropping out of school -- if he could find a school that met like 1 PM to 7 PM or something, it would be a piece of cake. (there are some European schools that do that, but not here in America).

We have pretty much decided that the only job he will ever work out in will be a 2nd shift job. He is just "awake" and at his prime beginning about 8 pm until about 2-3 AM. We have done everything possible to try to reverse his internal clock, but it doesn't work. He has no caffeine at all.

We have looked into a sleep study for him, but the doctor won't approve it because he doesn't snore. He does, however, sleep talk and often gets up several times during the night. However, in the morning, he is absolutely dead to the world -- you couldn't wake him with a 10-piece band. (He used to have a drum set in his room and I tried to wake him playing that one day, but it didn't faze him).

So do you keep fighting it? Or just realize you have a different internal clock and go with looking for work that suits your body time?

Farmgirl
ps - his dad is the same way, exactly. His dad went through 15 jobs in the first two years I was married to him, because he just couldn't get up. Finally found one with hours he could handle. Also, an anti-depressant helped him some.

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Farmgirl
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By the way -- there have been studies that show that ADHD or ADD can be linked to a simple lack of proper sleep

Linky

Farmgirl

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BannaOj
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Ditto.

I don't snore. I'm doing much, much better now that I'm actually healthy. But even as I right this, I know I got 7hours and 45 minutes of sleep last night but I still have dark circles under my eyes and am totally tired. I'll perk up after lunch. I am a crab all morning, even though otherwise I'm naturally cheerful.

My ideal natural sleep pattern would be waking up about 10AM and going to bed about 1AM. When I know I have to wake up and go somewhere in the morning I am tense all night, unless I take Valerian as a muscle relaxant (which I did last night) I do mild teeth grinding and the dentist is monitoring the wear, but hasn't reccommended a mouth guard yet. I don't want to be tired. But I always seem to be.

AJ

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Phanto
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Hypersomnia.

Hypersomnia is excessive sleepiness. It is an excessively deep or prolonged major sleep period. It may be associated with difficulty in awakening. It is believed to be caused by the central nervous system and can be associated with a normal or prolonged major sleep episode and excessive sleepiness consisting of prolonged (1-2 hours) sleep episodes of non-REM sleep.

What are the Symptoms?

Long sleep periods
Excessive sleepiness or excessively deep sleep
The onset is insidious (gradually, so you are not aware of it at first)
Typically appears before age 25
Has been present for at lest six months

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Boon
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Hey, that's ME!!
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Annie
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Also, are you on a regular excerise routine? (regular being at least 3 times a week) I've been having problems with fatigue lately in spite of how much sleep I get, but I've found that half an hour of cardio exercise on MWF really helps.
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Belle
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Glynn, I had the tardiness problem too, but I was fortunate that my employer loved me so much they overlooked it. I had them snowed, I convinced them I was really, really good at my job. [Wink]

I would love to hear that you were able to get to a doctor and get an eval for depression and an ADD rule out. My sleep cycle improved drastically when I began to treat my ADD with meds. Funny, how stimulants actually led to me sleeping better at night. Not to mention waking up a whole lot easier in the morning.

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vwiggin
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Ask your doctor about provigil. It really has worked wonders for me.
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Primal Curve
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Well Belle, I don't know about depression, but I'm fairly sure about ADD. Apart from a previous diagnosis, I have the attention span of a Sesame-Street addicted crack baby. Show me something shiney and you can pull me from any conversation. [Big Grin]
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imogen
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*flashes a nickel in the light*
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Primal Curve
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<stares>
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imogen
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Oh drat, now I'm caught too.

Look, pretty light...

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mackillian
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Oh! Shiny!
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Belle
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Glynn, my psychiatrist said that ADDers that have the really quick working minds like ours (and let's face it, ADD is a sign of brilliance) have a hard time turning off their minds. These are the people that lie awake at night thinking great thoughts.

Plus, when we can't focus well during the day, because of our ADD, we build up stress, from not getting things done. Medication solves both problems, by allowing us to focus on things, we are more productive during the day, our mind can actually process all its brilliance, and so it's able to slow down and get ready for sleep at night.

Naturally that's a gross oversimplication of things, but it helped me to understand, because I was asking my doctor "How in the world can I sleep better if I'm taking a medication that's actually a stimulant?"

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BannaOj
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I've thought about going to the doctor on this issue (yaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwnnnn) The thing is that I don't know if I truly have enough symptoms (since right now isn't as severe as Primal Curve's description) for them to do anything about it. I found a decent GP that I trust for most basic health issues, but I'm not sure what he'd say about something like this. He's really old (has had a practice for over 40 years). As a result (thankfully) he was more willing to reccommend the tonsilectomy than younger doctors, and sent me to one of his buddies to do the actual surgery. It was the right thing to do, but a younger doctor probably wouldn't have reccommended it quite as quickly given I didn't quite have the full battery of symptoms. But I'm not sure how up he is on sleeping disorders.

AJ

[ March 10, 2004, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]

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Alexa
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I can actually post and educated response (school and training) to your post Primal Curve.

There is much good advice on sleep apnea, and it is good advice. However, from your original post, I do not see sleep as your primary problem. Infact, you state you are an energetic person.

Here are symptoms I noticed:

1: "become increasingly afraid of myself and the decisions I make in my life"

2: "I have absolutely no desire to get up" (this is not focused on being tired, but extreme apathy.

3: describing life as a "roller coaster."

4: talking about symptoms getting worse (not a good sign).

5: Documentation of mental illness in family.

I am not ever going to post on what is normal or what deserves medication (as this is a hotly debated question in psychology and psychiatry), however, if you are having mental symptoms that are interfering with your life (and you have already assessed that), then you should seek professional counsel.

There are beliefs in just exercising, getting medication, changing behaviors, establishing routine, therapy, et cetera. I advice you to seek professional help from a multiple of sources and find out what works for you and your view on life.

There are community mental health clinics that offer free services, and almost any pscyhologist or psychiatrist will meet you free from 1-10 times.

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jeniwren
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PC, stupid question, more out of curiosity, but were your parents the kind to tell you what to do all the time -- when to go to bed, when to get up, don't forget your lunch, do your homework now, etc.?
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