posted
I have no clue if this has been discussed here before. But there has been much discussion lately about the afterlife and the existence of an immortal spirit.
I don't really know that much about NDEs. I know that many people claim to have had them. Do those of you who don't believe in an afterlife think these are delusions of the mind or lies? I suppose someone might bring up encounters with aliens too, but I think that would go better in a separate thread.
One thing I am curious about, how often are there people who were "clinically dead" for a time who say, "Nope, there was nothing. Nothing at all". I have no clue.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
"Do those of you who don't believe in an afterlife think these are delusions of the mind or lies?"
Yep. I think part of it is a neurochemical delusion, and other parts are wishful thinking brought on by cultural pressure.
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I think its difficult to question the experience of another person. More so to judge, and even more so to fit within a pre-existing framework of interpretation.
Posts: 3061 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Well then, does anyone help me out with the question I posed? Have you heard of people being "clinically dead" who experienced only a void of existence? Or is that a moot point since their mind wouldn't be gone until they are brain-dead and no one can be brought back from that state?
I just remember a Farscape episode where Criton "died" and was brought back. His friend, curious about the existance of an afterlife asked him if he experienced anything. His answer was something like, "No, sorry." But perhaps this is a matter of science fiction technology to bring back a brain-dead person and thus is not relevant to what we can find out.
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I think that Betty Eadie- Embraced by the Light stuff is a load of hud. That "hugs from Jesus" part was especially hard to stomach.
Posts: 2655 | Registered: Feb 2004
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I tend to be skeptical of near death experiences. I had a teacher in high school who was clinically dead for a half an hour. (He'd just finished grading my paper! That he remembered). He had a bleeding ulcer, I think. While he never talked about the experience, apart from grading my paper taking 45 minutes, I think he remained skeptical about religion.
I grew very attached to him the following year (he taught World History and AP) and went back to visit after I'd graduated. He was a Ph.D. but had decided to teach high school. Given the ulcer incident, it may have been best that he wasn't competing for tenure. He really was a kind of father figure to me when I was living with my older sister at age 16.
Anyway, he was also a zero populationist, and his views on that have stuck with me even though I was one of ten and now have three children living. I guess I feel strongly that no life should be taken for granted. I think what he said about it is that people have children for their own personal reasons without a consciousness of their belonging to the human race. Or something like that.
He wrote back to me after my son died, but didn't mention anything about his own "death".
In a related vein, I get a lot of folks talking about their contact with the dearly departed. I kind of think "That's nice, good for you" and shrug.
I want to mention (this is kind of specialized to LDS folks) that priestcrafts include preaching for the praise of the world, as well as money. So even if someone doesn't make money from books and circulating stories about nead death, I still think they are weirdos.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I was near death from insulin overdose twice, and my experiences then were nothing like I've ever heard described before. I've told a few people about it. I have no wish to share it for dissection on hatrack, though, to tell the truth.
Things like that are not something that's really amenable to scientific analysis. They are subjective and personal. So I guess it applies only to one person, to me. Not that it's unimportant, but just I can't see it being of any use in the third person.
Posts: 2843 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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I wouldn't think you were a weirdo if you did share, ak, but I agree that those things should be kept personal.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Car accident, bev. Crushed the front of my skull (I have between 50-75% metal for my face), broke ribs, both of my legs, my jaw, and tore many internal organs (including torn aorta, the same thing that killed Princess Diana), and collapsed my right lung. I was on a ventillator and other life support for a week, while they deliberated whether to cut off my right leg or not (severe oblique compound fractures). They eventually detected a pulse after getting me off the ventillator, but I didn't wake up until a few weeks later. By that time, I had shiny new metal parts, casts on both legs, a trachiotomy, a wired jaw (yeah, that broke, too), and a full scar from ear to ear on the top of my head (where they had to cut and peel down to reconstruct my face).
Don't worry. I got better.
Posts: 779 | Registered: Dec 2003
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That sounds sooooo painful. Amazing that you made it through with all of that. I'll bet it hasn't hurt the goth look any. Chicks dig scars, right?
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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I haven't done the goth look in years. My biggest issue right now is trying to shave off all these pounds I put on over the winter.
As for the experience, it wasn't as bad as it sounds. I have a high threshold for pain, and that along with the liberal use of relaxation techniques—which I still employ today—kept me relatively comfortable, even though I was somewhat immobilized for some time. There was no sign of PTSD, and considering I lost the memory of the accident itself (it was part of that block of time I lost, never to return) as well as the preceeding few hours, I'd say I got past the worst of it without a hitch.
Funny parts: I got some accounts of the accident, and the guy who found me said I was quite talkative, but a "bit agitated." The EMTs who arrived on the scene described my attitude as "annoyed" and "uncooperative," which means even near death and broken all over, I must have been my usual snarky self. Apparently, I didn't start to fade until they cut me out of the car (needed multiple Jaws-of-Life) and had me flying to the trauma center. Then the scary parts (for my family) started.
Also, about two weeks into my coma, I apparently sat up and tried to get at some nurse (a male) who was working in the ICU. My mom said I looked angry, and she was asking me what was wrong. She tried to get me to write what I was trying to say, and I scribbled something and fell back immobile again for another week and a half. I have no memory of the incident, and when I was shown the scribble, I laughed—it was nothing but a few curved lines. No one knows what happened, why I did what I did, or what level of consciousness I was at during the time. Whatever it was, I was definitely not conscious (awake).
Posts: 779 | Registered: Dec 2003
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That would be such a scary thing for a mother to deal with, not knowing if she would lose her son or not and if he would ever be "himself" again. *shudder* I have been fortunate thus far not--no deaths or serious harm to my immediate family.
Our son did has gone to the ER twice, but for some very non-serious stuff. First to find out if he did indeed swallow a watch-battery (he did) and second because he got himself covered in tar. Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Yeah, I think my mom and dad went through more hell than I did mentally. It was quite a struggle getting to where I'm at now (not 100%, but getting close), but I'm someone who eats challenges up for breakfast, hence the walking four months before doctors even said I would.
Posts: 779 | Registered: Dec 2003
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I had more of a time collapse than outright memory loss. So maybe I was abducted by aliens. And it probably was just biochemical, though they did give me a catscan at one point because with my symptoms they needed to rule out some kind of physical injury. (bev, I don't know if you read my first landmark but that's what I'm referring to).
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I am VERY skeptical of NDE's, and I was appalled at Betty Eadie's Embraced by the Light crap (especially since she is/was/whatever LDS).
But I do have to put in a plug for a fantastic novel on the subject. Connie Willis' Passage , about two researchers studying the physical explanations for NDE's, is a truly great book, and I recommend it to everyone.
Posts: 1652 | Registered: Aug 2003
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