posted
I don't think that the stuff about walmart that I know is illegal..just immoral. But I also know a lot of people who would stop shopping there if they knew about it.
fugu, if you're serious then i'll take you up on your offer. I've been thinking about starting to sell my stuff, but there just isn't a market for it here. A website could be just the ticket. Drop me an email.
Posts: 16 | Registered: May 2004
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posted
Unless you have a trust fund, when you are an adult, you have to provide something of value so someone else will give you money so you can buy the things you cannot procure for yourself.
It's annoying, but it's the price of eating every day.
There is NO selling out in working for a living. That whole concept comes from two sources: (1) One is a conceit that money is filthy and there should have nothing to do with pure artists, and therefore to be an artist you can't work for the money. That comes from years of art being in the hands of those who were born to wealth. It isn't intrinsic, and it is not part of Western art tradition.
The other source is the concept of nobility - in Europe, anyone who worked for a living instead of living off of rents from his (and it was always a his) property could not be a member of the nobility. There were elaborate rules as to who could and could not claim to be noble, and that's where the crazy marriages came in, because trading a kid for money was fine, but working for money wasn't.
So, there's nothing wrong with working for a living. It has to happen. To be happy, find something you can do with your art, or, if that doesn't work, find a job that you can do that won't suck all the energy and will for art out of you.
posted
I absolutely don't think that there is anything wrong with working for a living. Also, there is nothing wrong with money. But I wont compromise my my artistic integrity for money. That is selling out.
I would shovel manure for a living before I changed my art out of love of money. I think doing anything out of love of money is wrong.
posted
CHanging your art might be selling out. But using the skills you have that allow you to create art for something not art-worthy isn't. You wouldn't be doing it for love of money. You'd be taking care of an obligation to provide for yourself and your family (when you start one).
posted
There's a difference between doing something artistic to make money, and compromising your values to make money. How is doing something (artistic) differently than you did before compromising your values?
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
fleetwood - you might want to check out http://www.americancraft.com/, they've got some information and links for artists and businesses selling artwork and crafts. They also offer some courses to get you started. If nothing else, you might be able to pick up a few contacts and get their advice. There are certainly plenty of arists making a living out there, even if its not easy.
Posts: 959 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Some people seem to think that getting a job you dislike to earn money instead of "doing what you love" is selling out.
That's not selling out. That's growing up.
Yes, there are a few lucky people say "I would still do this even if I didn't get paid", but there are also a few lucky people who win the lottery. A realistic adult just won't count on that happening to them.
After all, if my job were that fun to do, I'd have to pay them to do it. There's a reason why I get paid money. Because it's work.
posted
Its worth noting that American Craft, which though it seems to have good advice, renders most of that advice in book form, and their website serves largely as a marketing vehicle for those books. I could find almost nothing in the way of actual content on the website proper.
The forums seem to be decent, though, if not very highly populated.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
You get paid because you have a relative advantage at doing it. Lots of people work at things which are enjoyable. Now, the true efficiency at doing work does take into account individuals particular distastes for doing something, but those are merely additional "costs", not some sort of insurmountable barrier -- after all, you do it.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I think an example of an artist selling out is if a customer offers you money to make something that pains your soul to do.
1) some people would be against working for certain types of customers, like a casino or adult video store.
2) some people would find it wrong to use their skills to make lewd or sacriligious artwork
It's not that someone is saying, "it's a sell out to get paid for my work," but that sometimes you have to make a decision much greater and harder than that.
Posts: 1892 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
mr. portiero head, I don't think that having a job that I dislike is selling out and I don't think taking money for art is selling out. But changing the meaning of my work for the sake of money is selling out. I want to do what I love for a career, and making a career out of doing what I love without compromising the meaning of it will be difficult. .
I have nothing but the utmost respect for people who work at jobs nobody in their right mind would want to work at to provide for their families. I will try to make a career out of making art as long as I can. If I'm not able to provide for my future family by making art, I will do anything so long as I can provide for them.
I simply wanted advice as to how make a career out of my making art.
quote:Yes, there are a few lucky people say "I would still do this even if I didn't get paid", but there are also a few lucky people who win the lottery. A realistic adult just won't count on that happening to them.
You mean I could win the lottery as well?
I studied English in college in order to become a writer, and voila, I'm working as a writer and supporting my family just fine. Would I do it even if I didn't get paid? Heck no. I have just enough business sense to make sure I get paid to do what I love to do all day. But I like my job, and I'm glad I have it. Things could have worked out much differently for me.
However, I would work at any number of jobs to support my family, and I wouldn't feel like I was somehow upsetting the purity of my skills as a writer even if I were sweeping floors somewhere.
I trained for what I felt I wanted to do. There's certainly nothing wrong with that. But I knew there was a good chance I would have to earn my living in other ways, or go back to school for more training in a more "practical" vocation. That's just the way things are sometimes.
Fleetwood, you really did specialize in areas that might not have lots of immediate, general application in the job market. Maybe using your broader art background will help you stay in the art or design field, but you might find that metalworking and watercolor painting will stay in the side business or hobby status.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Fleetwood, I am aware that you never said that. When I said "Some people seem to think that...", I wasn't implying that somebody here has said that. But I have encountered that thought, and I was using it as a contrast to express my own thoughts.
My words weren't meant as an attack on anybody who is dedicated to earning their wages doing what they love. As long as you realize what you are giving up, it's fine.
I have a good friend who got a bachelors and a masters in literature. She loved what she studied. I got a bachelors and a masters in mechanical engineering, which I loved studying. She took it as personally unfair that I had more job opportunities upon graduation than she did.
Acutally, it is unfair. But what can you do?
I don't think I could ever have the courage to make my living as an artist or entrepeneur, and I'm envious of the people even willing to try.
It's not exciting, but I really want the stability that comes from being a cog in the machine. If I were single, perhaps it would be different. I could handle being personally poor, but it would be much more difficult to inflict that upon my family, just like fleetwood said.
Suneun -- those examples are by no means limited to artists. It would be a sell out if I sold my services to the adult entertainment, alcohol, or tobacco industry.
posted
I know this feeling... I want to make a living writing. I am tired of working at the supermarket, of not earing enough money or having a social life or being stuck on foodstamps when they can decide to cut 90% of them. Currently I dislike my life and situation...
I have a hard time getting my head around the sheer productivity you describe and the apparent lack of reward for it. it's rigoddamndiculous! not to mention fairly depressing.
posted
I have to sell my manuscript to a publisher. Generally, you need an agent. So I have to query agents, get one of them to read the manuscript, agree to represent it, and hopefully, sell it to a publishing house.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I mentioned this thread to a coworker, Barbara. It's her bf (Jim) who is the electrician/tinsmith. Jim does demos at our local Fort Museum. Jim knows a guy who does this six months of the year and collects unemployment for the other six months. Apparently he gets enough to live on.
The types of things Jim makes include small things you can hold in your hands. I think Barbara mentioned some of his recent work - a wall sconce is the only thing I can remember. I'll email you his email addy so you can ask him quesions if you want. He does trade on ebay, but the name Barbara gave me didn't come up.
Posts: 2034 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Because I've been told that by many brutally honest people.
And I could easily do a photography book...one of my projects was a photojournalessay thing that I still have to finish.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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what did the brutally honest people say? were they familiar with the writing content found in the places you were submitting to?
Posts: 3061 | Registered: Mar 2004
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I've actually sold some stuff at a fundraiser for my schools art department. Jewelry made from silver and antique watch parts.
Posts: 16 | Registered: May 2004
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posted
To sell or to do? Sorry, I should have prefaced that last post with the commercial/biz aspect you lamented in the post I was originally interested in.
on the writing thing. where do you think the disconnect is between your harsh but available critics and your unresponsive, unavailable (commercial) ones?
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But I like my job, and I'm glad I have it. Things could have worked out much differently for me.
