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You have to live in Canada for 3 years or more to do it. And there's a waiting list now. Have fun in the great white north (I saw a news report stating Canada has chosen to not put people who move to Canada on the basis of the election on the fast track to citizenship, I thought it was a funny report).
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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The whole "I'm moving to Canada" thing people go on about just makes me laugh. I mean, it's four years of the guy you don't like being in office. That's all. You'll survive Posts: 1907 | Registered: Feb 2000
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I've said the same things before, Geoff, but in Sara's case it's different - there is her husband (a Canadian citizen) and jobs affecting her decision.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Well, it depends on the circumstances... I'd want to move to Canada soon because it's one of my dreams to live there as a professional writing living in a house out in the middle of no where. It is a silly romantic dream though. Canada just seems to be more welcoming to people like me than the US right now.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I think the whole "moving to Canada" whine is very childish and irresponsible. I'll be dammned if I surrender my country to people who would destroy the environment, deny civil rights to people based on their sexual preferences, and start preemptive wars without telling the public the truth.
America is a great country and still worth fighting for.
Edited to add: This post is addressed to people seriously thinking of moving to Canada purely as a form of political protest. If you have other reasons to move to Canada, that's fine. It's a great country.
I can see why one might want to leave if your core values are completely different than those of the rest of the country. Take someone like me, you couldn't pay me enough to live in America; I'd just be miserable. I'm a liberal vegan environmentalist who likes both his nanny state government and social safety net and actually likes paying taxes. I'd be certifiably miserable in the states, and if I'd grown up there coming to Canada would be awfully appealing.
In the same way that many people in Canada who dislike taxes, want more personal freedoms, etc. leave to go to the states. More power to them, I hope they find happiness there.
Why stay somewhere that makes you miserable in just about every sense of the word? The notion that America is your country and you have to stay and fight to build it in your image is a tiring one to me. Not everyone is a fighter, they just aren't. Why suffer if there's a perfectly good country next door? Why declare that everyone else must stay or they're weak, or quitters, or America-haters, or immature, or French, or whatever other insult is popular at the moment? How does that even help?
"The very act of living here makes exhausts me. It's time to leave."
"You weak-willed quitting quitter! You need to stay and fight for what you've deluded yourself in thinking is right even though those delusions will destroy the country. Fight me, darn you! Fight me! YAARRR!!!"
"Dude. So don't care."
"YARRRR!"
"Yeah. Whatever." *moves to Canada*
I mean, that's not to say that you should move at the drop of a hat, and I understand that a lot of it stems from election-loss-dejection. It just seems people are ridiculously antagonistic when they hear that someone wants to leave their Eden.
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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The prosperity and liberty we enjoy as Americans were handed down to us by generations of people willing to fight for what is right and just.
As an American I have benefited from the fruits of the civil rights mvoement, the labor movement, the women suffrage movement, etc. Should I abandon my country when it is facing another crucial moral crossroads?
I can easily move. I have money and I can find a job anywhere in the world. But sometimes the most marginalized people in society do not have that luxury. Do I abandon them to fend for themselves?
Posts: 1592 | Registered: May 2000
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I might be moving to Canada, but it won't be because of the election. I'm applying to this program.
-----
Incidentally, I googled "moving to canada meme" and got this:
quote:MarryAnAmerican.ca. "Now that George W. Bush has been officially elected, single, sexy, American liberals - already a threatened species - will be desperate to escape"
posted
"Canada is a liberal utopia & we have universal healthcare (in two languages!), gay marriage, free marijuana for everyone, and we don't like guns."
That free marijuana thing is so not true.
Posts: 1592 | Registered: May 2000
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quote:I don't want to crush your dreams but the "middle of nowhere" in Canada in my experience is
a) tundra b) rocks and trees and trees and rocks c) something between the two
I would move to NZ to live as a writer in the middle of nowhere.
It depends on the definition of "middle of nowhere", of course, but if it's just a matter of having no one around for miles, or even not having anyone else's presence immediately obvious or visible, then that can be as simple as a few miles out of town.
Thinking about Vancouver, as an example, I could live across the ferry north of North Vancouver either in or out of small towns along the Sunshine Coast with the feeling of middle of nowhere and still be less than an hour from a major city. That's Vancouver. It can be done with any major city in the west. Probably can be with the east as well, but since I haven't been there, I don't have personal experience with it.
If you want serious middle of nowhere, the interior of British Columbia is really easy. Move to an acreage oh, ten or fifteen miles outside of Kelowna, for example, and you've got a seriously short drive to a city of over a hundred thousand with all the major amenities you could want. Shopping centres, theatres, hockey, whatever. Plus you've still got a great big long lake with beaches and major water sports, a university, orchards as far as the eye can see, seriously hot weather in the summer and fairly mild - for Canada - weather in winter. Want more isolation? Move out by Nelson. Also parked on another seriously beautiful lake. Move to the side of the lake opposite Nelson - via ferry - and own land ten or fifteen miles away from the ferry and you have serious isolation. And Nelson is still not that far away. You've got small little villages and hamlets up and down the coast, picturesque as can be, and man, it's peaceful.
But like I said, depends on how you define middle of nowhere.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I just want to live someplace with a lot of trees and where the library is nearby at least... But not in a suburb or a city where there will be people who will find some way to annoy me.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Well, those places I mentioned will do the trick. There are so many places in Canada where you can do that - although I'd advise staying out of the Yukon, North West Territories, or Nunavut to do it.
Where I described, it's living out of town, not in a suburb, but still close to a big enough town/city so you still have everything you need, which in my world also includes bookstores and libraries. Seriously, lots of places in Canada for that. Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Unfortuantely, the closest I've got to British Columbia is an ice field in the Rockies. I've no doubt that British Columbia (I hear they have real trees there- we have twigs here) is tres belle.
Come east and it's fields and then rocks and trees and trees and rocks. There are breath-taking views, yes and it's wonderful to walk in the summer and especially in the autumn, but when winter and spring rolls around...
I don't know. I'm biased. I miss large trees (although I have one outside of my window I am in central Toronto, so it doesn't count) and beautiful springs.
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Just between Kelowna and Vernon there are a couple of small towns and a whole bunch of little lakes with cabins and houses that are quite remote and very beautiful. The problem with these areas are they are very expensive to live in for people who actually have to work for a living. The reason my wife and I left Vernon was because we couldn't get work that paid enough to get out of the renting cycle and actually own a home. We moved to Edmonton and paid about equivalent rent (actually a little less but the place was a bit smaller) and I found a really good job within a month of being here.
The Okanagan has a pretty high "Sunshine Tax" and is highly populated with retirees who can afford to live without working a regular job. Most people I know who have stayed there are either willing to rent for the long term, can't get past the nostalgia of our youth (I can totally understand this - it is something that made it really hard for me to leave), or have family businesses (one owns an orchard). Things seem to be changing a bit now that Kelowna is growing so much. A lot of businesses are attracted to Kelowna because they know that people are willing to relocate to live there. Okanagan University College was recently bought by The University of British Columbia and so students will be more attracted to going there and businesses will be drawn there as well.
I love the Okanagan and would recommend living there to anybody but it will be challenging as the prices will keep going up.
Posts: 1336 | Registered: Mar 2002
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You know, I have heard both applause and horror stories about the socialized, government-run medical system they have in Canada (like people having to wait years for a minor surgery).
But I've never thought about it from a doctor's point of view -- how hard is it for a doctor to give care needed under a socialized system?
Farmgirl (who started this post about 20 minutes ago, then got side-tracked by work, so is probably posting way off topic by now)
Posts: 9538 | Registered: Aug 2003
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Well, I have nothing but good experience with our healthcare system. I had minor surgery last March and I scheduled it a couple of months before that. My father in law has had several procedures in the last year (he is pretty high risk though). I don't use the healthcare system much though. I don't go to doctors on a regular basis. I use walk in clinics when my kids need to see a doctor (not often). My wife has to go to a back specialist and getting the initial appointment took several months but now she is guaranteed an annual appointment. If she does end up needing surgery I expect that it will be several months before she can get it slotted in but she isn't at a stage where she can't live with it anyway.
I would personally rather have the long waits happen for minor surgery rather than the more essential emergency situations (like my father in law has had over the last couple of years). My experiences are all anecdotal though so take it for what it is worth.
Posts: 1336 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:You know, I have heard both applause and horror stories about the socialized, government-run medical system they have in Canada (like people having to wait years for a minor surgery).
The anecdotes go both ways. This is why I like well-constructed national surveys and national data.
The waiting line issues are not straightforward -- most recent survey found that 1/3 of those names had already been covered (just not updated) and a good percentage of the others were "filler" spots; i.e., got put on the list because they might need x or y eventually.
Again, the best comparison seems to be morbidity and mortality statistics. Regardless of any individual experience or isolated concern, are people sicker or more well for a given disease? Do they die faster or slower?
quote:But I've never thought about it from a doctor's point of view -- how hard is it for a doctor to give care needed under a socialized system?
Easier. You don't have to work for an HMO, as most US doctors do -- and working for an HMO means justifying tests and treatments to a bureaucracy that has a vested interest in denying claims.
Canadian physicians never have to write a letter to beg for or justify the treatment they judge best for their patient.
Thus US physicians spend about 40-45% of office time on paperwork as opposed to 5-10% for Canadian physicians.
You also don't have to spend time trying to help your patients access resources or figure out whether they will be covered (e.g., physical therapy). They are covered. So half of the visit isn't taken up with talking about what options are available, what are available but not covered, and what to do if that option turns out to be more expensive.
All a doctor needs is a license and a shingle. All a patient needs is one single number -- regardless of where they go in the country. Live in Toronto but break your leg thousands of miles away in Calgary? Take your number with you to any doc you see.
Plus, imagine what it is like to have spent half one's life trying to hone oneself into a useful tool, because you think that is the most important and fundamental thing there is, and suddenly ... everyone you see can make use of you. If not you, then someone like you.
Compare that to walking down the street and knowing that disease itself isn't the biggest threat you have to fight, but rather access: the regulations of your own government, the prejudices and misinformation of your own neighbors and colleagues, and the basic assumptions that are so hard to get people to question. (And you thought just fighting disease was going to be hard but worth getting ready for! There's no getting ready for this. )
[ November 10, 2004, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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I've found access getting better in the US - my HMO went from needing all kinds of paperwork for anything to now I don't need referrals for anything. My child needed an occupational therapy eval - we did this three years ago and it took two weeks of phone calls and faxes and hassle. This time I called and the insurance company (an HMO) told me I didn't even need to call - I could just make the appointment with the OT department. No referrals are needed for anything any more.
This is the same company that made me jump through all kinds of hoops a few years ago - they've changed to make access easier, and I am pretty sure it's a financial decision. It costs money to generate and process paperwork - some companies are now finding it isn't worth the perceived savings.
So...I think there are some positive trends in American healthcare. We'll see what happens under Bush's next term in re tort reform.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I am glad the system is getting smoother for dealing with your HMO. That's great!
As noted in AJ's thread (I know I should be happy I have health insurance), unfortunately sometimes these things change without our control. And different systems have different rules and experiences.
I especially worry about the 1/5 of our total population (40-60 million out of 295 million) that have no insurance. Even for those who are young and healthy and choose to not be covered, if they are diagnosed with a major illness -- cancer, diabetes, heart disease, genetic disorder, or even just trauma from a motor vehicle crash -- the fallout from that illness would be considered a pre-existing condition and render that person virtually uncoverable in the future.
[ November 10, 2004, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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Hey solo, that's pretty cool that you lived in Vernon and moved to Edmonton. Pretty much the same situation my dad was in. We own a house right by Shuswap Lake, which my Grandpa built back in the 60s, when property was really cheap in those parts. So Vernon is about a 45 minute drive from there.
I think if you could land a decent-paying job in BC, there's no nicer place in Canada. I've lived in Edmonton my whole life, and the best time of the year is always summer vacation in BC. Unfortunately, just about everyone I know has had problems finding good work in the more rural areas. You could probably find a high-paying job in Vancouver, and you would need to, because the cost of living is also extremely high.
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That's one of the three main reasons we chose to come to Edmonton rather than Vancouver. The cost of living is insane in Vancouver. Our other major reasons were that neither my wife or I really wanted to raise our kids in Vancouver and my wife has several siblings in Edmonton and Calgary.
I know the Shuswap area quite well and I used to spend time in the summers at a friends cabin on Mara Lake. I love going back to the Okanagan and I could see myself going back at some point in the future but I also find myself really enjoying Edmonton. The winters are too cold, but there is so much sunlight here. I miss the mountains but I like having all the amenities of a big city without feeling like I am in a big city. We bought a house a little over a year ago and we are enjoying paying into something that is ours rather than pouring our money into rent.
My parents and one of my brothers still live in Vernon and I have a couple of friends living there (One owns an Apple orchard just up the street from my parents house). I have many opportunities to go back and visit so that is pretty cool.
Posts: 1336 | Registered: Mar 2002
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About Canadian medical care - it's not just minor surgeries that have waiting lists.
About four or five years ago, I finally found out that my gallbladder needed removing. It had been acting up since I was a teenager, but I didn't know that was what was causing problems. It was finally diagnosed at thirty. I was put on a waiting list - 6 months long - to have said gallbladder removed. This despite landing in emergency on many occasions with severe problems. I was told that there was no way I would ever be admitted through emergency to have my gallbladder removed. It just wasn't done. Had to wait my turn like everybody else. Never mind that gallbladder problems can be life threatening.
My problems continued getting worse and worse to the point where my health was severely compromised. Went to emergency with yet another attack (was having a gallbladder attack every day for the last month) when they finally admitted me for surgery. Finally had the thing removed. If they hadn't removed it then, I would have been dead within hours. It was infected and ready to pop.
Same thing happened to my aunt, only hers had exploded. She lived, luckily, but it was touch and go. I know others who are on two year waiting lists for various forms of heart surgery. And a friend of mine who needed knee surgery was in and out in two weeks.
Serious problems in the healthcare industry? Oh yeah. That's why it's called a crisis.
But the country is still beautiful. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Definitely serious problems everywhere. But by the data, there are more serious problems in the US and they come more frequently.
Not much comfort for you I know, quidscribis. And I am very very glad you are okay! Unfortunately, there are more stories like yours in the US than there are in Canada, especially given that 1/5 our population isn't even covered at all.
Canada needs to fund their system better, though. They have been gutting it, unfortunately.
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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