posted
So, uh, Natalie Portman is not only studying on the same campus as me, but she's in the overseas school, which means we're spending the majority of our day in the same building.
My roommate has seen her already, as well as my study partner for one of my classes who said she studied next to her in the library. My study buddy's best friend has also seen her a couple of times. Excuse me while I go hyperventilate.
I want to see her so badly! Hopefully I'll bump into her sometime soon! But she's HERE! How cool is that??
And P.S. The reason this is still dubbed a "rumor" is D's fault... it's not a rumor, she IS here, but apparently I'm not allowed to say that until I've actually seen her myself.
posted
I forgot to mention that it was also in the paper, though I didn't see it, but a colleague of my dad's told me.
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Oh, and I'm with Kama, boyfriends are all very nice, but this is Natalie Portman we're talking about.
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posted
OH, NEET. She speaks Hebrew. That ups her sexiness quotient by a lot because nothing's sexier than being able to speak more than one language.
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posted
There's been many times when people have come up to me, knowing I'm Jewish, asking, can you teach me some words in Jewish?
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posted
I didn't mean she was fluent in Jewish! I meant she was fluent in Hebrew, AND she's Jewish! Jewish is NOT a language. And Jaime, that happens to me all the time... as well as "Hebrish," "Israelish"... yeah.
quote: OH, NEET. She speaks Hebrew. That ups her sexiness quotient by a lot because nothing's sexier than being able to speak more than one language.
*wonders if she should take this as a personal compliment as well* Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Do you mean why is Yiddish referred to as the Jewish language and not Hebrew?
If so, it's probably because many Jews felt (and feel) that Hebrew is too sacred to be spoken, except for learning and prayers. Therefore, many Ashkenazi Jews in Europe before the war spoke Yiddish in their everyday lives.
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posted
And Ashkenazi Jews used Yiddish to avoid assimilation when they first arrived in America. I still thought "Jewish language" referred to Hebrew seeing as how Yiddish was spoken by only a few Jews and is now bordering on extinction.
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posted
I am not aware of any Jews who feel that Hebrew is "too sacred" to use as an everyday spoken language. However, since as long as 2000+ years ago, it hasn't been the everyday language. First it was Aramaic, in various dialects; more recently, it was Yiddish or Ladino, depending on where you lived. What each of these (and some less-known languages, I've been told) have in common is that they started as a pidgin of Hebrew and the local language.
Hence Ashkenazi Jews, who trace their ancestry back to German Jews, speak Yiddish -- primarily (originally, at least) a blend of German and Yiddish. While Sephardi Jews, who trace back to Spain and Portugal, speak Ladino -- a blend of Spanish and Hebrew.
Sadly, Yiddish has become a language that lives on in only very small pockets, and Ladino is all but unspoken.
Instead, we have the dreadful blend of Yiddish, English, and Hebrew -- with all the worst parts of each! -- called either Yeshivish or Yinglish.
In any case, since "Yiddish" literally MEANS "Jewish," it is not inaccurate (although it is a bit unclear) to call the language that.
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posted
Rivka, Jews don't have a problem with speaking Hebrew now, but when we first arrived in Europe that was apparently the general sentiment and so to avoid speaking the native language we have Yiddish.
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posted
On what basis are you claiming this? I have read a LOT of letters, books, etc. by Yiddish-speakers who came here. I've spoken to a number in person. And what I've heard has NEVER been "too sacred" -- it's always been "not sufficiently fluent" (a problem I have as well).
People didn't choose Yiddish over Hebrew because Hebrew was too sacred; they chose Yiddish because they SPOKE it, and didn't speak Hebrew fluently.
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posted
When Jews started arriving in EUROPE they felt that way. At that point in time there wasn't Yiddish. I'm talking way way back. In the 1800s when Jews began to start arriving in America in large number it was a different story.
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posted
I think you're wrong. Documents from the early part of the first millennium (CE) indicate that Hebrew was the language of the educated, and Aramaic the common tongue. Nowhere is there any discussion (that I have ever heard referenced) to any concern of sacredness.
When a non-native population is transplanted, pidgin language(s) are almost guaranteed. Ask a linguist -- I don't claim to be one.
I'd be interested in seeing proof of the "too sacred to speak" assertion.
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rivka: I've heard the too-sacred-to-speak many times, even from original settlers of Israel. Don't have any solid proof on me though.
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posted
I know this isn't any kind of proof, but in The Chosen by Chaim Potok one of the walls between the two Jewish communities is that the Orthodox community teaches in Hebrew and the Hasidic community teaches in Yiddish because they feel Hebrew is too sacred to be taught in.
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posted
I can't offer immediate proof, all I can say is that is what I have been taught both in religious classes and in university classes (race and ethnicity class). Furthermore, I would contend that it follows the logical trend that Jews have taken, for example initial resistance to reestablishing the Jewish state in ultra-Orthodox community.
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posted
Phanto, *grin* That's why they call 'em urban legends -- because they got legs.
Seriously, I believe that it's an extant theory. I don't believe it has any basis in fact. There simply has never been any time (that I know of, and while I am far from an expert on Jewish history OR law (let alone customs!), I am a student of both) when Hebrew has been viewed that way. There are certain specific WORDS in Hebrew that are only used in prayer or learning (most of God's names, for example); but not Hebrew as a whole.
blacwolve, Potok's books are not a great source for accurate or unbiased information. In fact, I wonder whether his books might not be the source of this myth? Heaven knows they are the source of a number of other myths about Orthodoxy.
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posted
nfl, I submit that all the classes you cite were likely taught by non-Orthodox. There is an unfortunate tendency by non-Orthodox Jews to attribute motives to traditional Jews that simply are inconsistent with Jewish law.
Your belief that "sacredness" has much to do with Orthodox opposition (which was NEVER universal, it should be noted) to the Israeli state is proof of this . . .
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posted
Natalie Portman is hot... I'd date her. Absolutely. I'd beat anyone up in my way, too, if I had a shot Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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quote: blacwolve, Potok's books are not a great source for accurate or unbiased information. In fact, I wonder whether his books might not be the source of this myth? Heaven knows they are the source of a number of other myths about Orthodoxy.
Really? What problems do you have with him?
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posted
Bias. He grew up Orthodox, rejected Orthodoxy as a young adult, and his books reek of his distaste for and dislike of various aspects of Orthodoxy.
Inaccuracy. Whether because he honestly misremembered, never learned correctly, or changed details to suit his literary visions, his portrayals of many many aspects of Orthodox beliefs, customs, and laws are flat-out wrong. Mixed in with the parts he got right, they make a mish-mash that is very difficult to parse.
posted
Is orthodoxy regarded as the same thing as Hasidism?
Because I've gained nothing but respect for Hasidism from his books and I always assumed that he was a Hasidic Jew and remained that way his whole life. Not that I had any idea, that was just the impression I got.
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posted
You are correct that they were taught by non-Orthodox Jews. However, the religious classes were taught as what "we" did, not what the Orthodox did. The idea was that "we" decided that Hebrew was too sacred to be used in every day speech. I'm not denying that naturally picking the local language was part of it, but certainly a contributing factor was belief that the language was sacred.
The idea behind bringing up the existence of Orthodox opposition is just to make the point about how JEWS have held these feelings. I in know way am trying to imply or claim that anything is universal among anyone, nor that these feelings are specific to the Orthodoxy.
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posted
Hasidism is a sect of ultra-Orthodoxy. It is not the same and all Orthodox Jews are most definitely not Hasidic. Sen. Joseph Lieberman is an Orthodox Jew.
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posted
OK, so I'm more confused than when I started this thread.
Raia, what language do your fellow students use when hanging out together? What language do the professors use to teach? What language do you use in your parents' house in Israel and in America?
Rivka, what language did you speak with your family when you visited Israel last month? And what language do you normally use here with your children?
And btw I like Natalie Portman because she reminds me of my sister-in-law, for some reason. My SIL lives over 1000 miles away and I can count the number of times I've seen her on two hands. Since I'm too shy to reach out and try to make our long distance relationship more sisterly, even though I've wanted a sister all my life, I just watch Natalie Portman movies instead. I don't even think of her in terms of pretty anymore, so reading this thread about how hot and desirable she is is just a bit weird.
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quote: Raia, what language do your fellow students use when hanging out together? What language do the professors use to teach? What language do you use in your parents' house in Israel and in America?
Theca, the majority of Israelis speak Hebrew. (modern Israeli Hebrew, which is in some ways quite distinct from the Hebrew of biblical times, the times of the Gemara, etc. -- but that's a whole OTHER discussion )
However, it is true that many Chassidic Israelis primarily speak Yiddish, and Hebrew only secondarily. I believe this is a cultural issue; NOT a religious one.
quote: Rivka, what language did you speak with your family when you visited Israel last month?
Well, most of my family speaks English. Ok, that's an exaggeration, many of the younger generation speaks very little English. Between my Hebrew and their English, we managed.
quote: And what language do you normally use here with your children?
I speak primarily English to my kids, although that's mostly a function of my lack of fluency in Hebrew (and I speak only a smattering of Yiddish). However, I regret my lack of Hebrew fluency, and am doing my best to help my kids speak it better than I do. (My eldest, aged 10, reads chapter books in Hebrew, completely of her own volition, and I think that's wonderful.)
quote: I was sympathetic to the heroes - just as Potok wanted me to be - the Malters, and hostile to the forces which opposed them, such as of course, the Saunders.
I was sympathetic to both the families. I really liked Danny's father, actually.
However, I was more impressed with My Name is Asher Lev because even though Asher wanted to rebel from his community he recognized everything that was good in it and remained a member at great personal cost.
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posted
But . . . many of the things he claims are not ok in "his" community are. In many ways, the dichotomy he presents is false -- and clearly tainted by the similar scenario from his own life. (link) Potok was rebelling against his father; not against Orthodox Judaism. Like I.B. Singer before him, his inability to separate the two colored both his life and his writing.
*shrug* Anyway, I am NOT saying that you shouldn't like Potok. Not at all! He was unquestionably a powerful and talented writer. I just wouldn't use him as a source for factual information.
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quote: Raia, what language do your fellow students use when hanging out together? What language do the professors use to teach? What language do you use in your parents' house in Israel and in America?
Theca, I speak Hebrew to students who speak it, but since I'm in the international school, many don't, or don't speak it well, like my roommate for example. So we speak English between the two of us, and there are some others like that too. Some of my classes are taught in Hebrew, and some in English, but none in Yiddish, if that's what you meant... I don't speak Yiddish. I know a word or two. And I speak Hebrew with my family, both in Israel and in the States.
Does that clear a few things up? Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Yesterday was awful, I was working in the library... and two people had already told me they saw her in there, so I couldn't concentrate at ALL. I kept looking up at the door every 30 seconds, hoping to see her walk in.
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