posted
Lately, there's been some discussion about guns in some of the other threads, so I thought I'd start one specifically for gun discussion. I carry a semi-automatic pistol (Springfield XD 5 inch Tactical 9mm) for personal protection. I am also a target shooter and was on my college's rifle team. I learned to shoot when I was 8 years old and have been around guns my entire life. I don't hunt.
I am often asked why I feel the need to carry a weapon. I'm a 5'4'' woman. There is no way that I could ever defend myself against a male assailant of even below average height. I believe that the only way I can defend myself is with a gun. There were 2 instances where I was assaulted when I was unarmed and I will never, ever allow myself to be a victim again.
It's not just a matter of not being a victim of violence either - I don't want to go through life afraid. I live in a questionable neighborhood and there have been many times where I've been in danger of harm. For example, I was getting gas less than a mile from campus a couple of weeks ago. A man who was clearly dangerous approached me and asked me for a ride. I had opened my purse and put my hand on my gun as soon as I saw him coming towards me. When he asked me for a ride, I was able to refuse him in a clear, confident voice. He kept on going (I watched him leave). At no time did I feel scared and I have no problem going back to that gas station.
I am passionate about gun safety. I think that anyone who owns a gun should go through NRA basic weapon training at the very least. I have a concealed carry permit and abide by the concealed carry laws of Virginia. I will do the same in any state that I live in.
I am happy to answer any questions that anyone might have.
posted
You sound like Anita Blake. Packin' that heat. It would be cool and useful to learn how to conceal weapons on one's person... But, why not turn yourself into a living weapon by learning... KUNG FU? If I had more money, I'd totally master kung fu. It's a way to stay in shape and learn a useful skill! Plus sooner or later you get to learn how to use swords, sai and the FAN! Archaic weapons, yes, but one never knows when they might need to use a fan as a lethal weapon.
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posted
Synesthesia, martial arts are great if you have the time and skill to devote to them. However, it takes years to be proficient and it's often difficult or impossible to find a qualified instructor. Also, no amount of martial arts training can overcome physicality - I'll always be short.
Yes, zgator, you do. You cannot allow the gun to be seen at all, so it must be concealed so that when you open your purse, it is not visible. I carry mine in an inner compartment. Part of my training is practicing drawing the gun from my purse - my goal is 4 seconds.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Do you need to have a concealed permit to carry your gun in your purse?
In Utah you do.
In Utah, the gun is considered one of the following: 1)Unloaded. IIRC, you can carry an unloaded weapon in any way. 2)In plain sight. A loaded weapon may be carried without a permit as long as it is in plain sight. You can carry a gun on your hip, but you are not allowed to let a jacket, etc. ever obscure it. 3) Concealed. But if you carry it concealed, it must be *completely* concealed.
An odd effect of the law is that it never legal to carry a partially concealed weapon.
posted
You can wear guns in plain site in Utah? For some odd reason, people carrying guns scares me a little.
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posted
I've never seen anybody do it, but it is legal.
A few years ago somebody walked into the local mall with a gun on his hip. He was asked by security to leave. He ended up suing, but he lost.
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posted
In Virginia, there's a group that's been going into places carrying openly in order to protest people with guns being harassed or asked to leave.
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posted
You can wear guns in plain sight without a permit in Virginia, too. I believe that is the case in most states. In some counties in (I think) Arizona, they stopped issuing concealed carry permits and everyone carries in the open.
You can check out each state's gun laws at packing.org. It's updated daily.
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posted
"In Virginia, there's a group that's been going into places carrying openly in order to protest people with guns being harassed or asked to leave."
It seems to me that it is indescribably rude to visit a public establishment while carrying.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Link on the incident. Two people were mistakenly charged and had their guns confiscated in one of the incidents.
I can't find a link, but the Falls Church police issued a policy to confront and question anyone carrying in the city limits; this policy wss revoked quickly.
quote:It seems to me that it is indescribably rude to visit a public establishment while carrying.
Do you mean openly carry, Tom? Because I always carry when visiting public establishments and I'm never rude.
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posted
"Do you mean openly carry, Tom? Because I always carry when visiting public establishments and I'm never rude."
Openly carry, yeah. It's like wearing a hat in church; you're publicly announcing that you do not trust the people around you, and reserve the right to kill them.
posted
Well, it would be rude to start killing someone or to carry it in a dangerous manner (not locked down, no safety or the hammer pulled back, etc.).
But someone else's sensibilities about guns don't deserve more public protection than someelse's sensibilities about modest attire, foul language on T-shirts, or white shoes after labor day.
posted
My point, zgator, is that we remove our head covering in churches as a nod to the tradition of removing a helmet and/or uncovering the head to show peaceful respect.
Carrying a gun in public is pretty much the antithesis of the concept; it says "I don't respect you enough to put down my weapon."
It is, in fact, the exact opposite of a handshake.
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posted
I freely admit that seeing someone carrying in a public place would make me quite nervous, even if it is within their legal rights. I would probably make every effort to not be near that person, though I would not dispute their right to have the gun. I just wouldn't want it near me.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:It is, in fact, the exact opposite of a handshake.
Not really. Handshakes didn't indicate they were unarmed. They indicated the weapons were stored. Handshakes (edit: while carrying a holstered) gun seem to fit right in this mold.
It's rude to go armed into someone else's property when the owner doesn't want any armed people there. I think the property owner's rights should trump, there, and that if the law doesn't support this, it would be rude to disrespect the owner's wishes.
posted
Of course, it's worth noting that the whole reason the handshake evolved is that people did in general carry their weapons in public, and it's only in relatively recent years -- primarily after the development of firearms and reliable police -- that it's become largely unnecessary and/or impolitic. The concept behind the handshake was that while you may in fact still have a weapon at your hip, you didn't have a weapon in your hand; this implies the existence of a society where an extended arm was in general assumed to contain a weapon wielded in hostility.
I think we all get to choose which society we care to believe in.
(Edit: My mental Dagonee kicked in apparently as the real Dagonee was typing. *grin*)
posted
When handshakes first started, however, "I'm not going to kill you" was a useful piece of information. In most of America, it is generally assumed that social acquaintances will not kill you. The line has been moved. A plainly visible gun indicates that the bearer considers it necessary to be able to kill or seriously wound somebody, which generally isn't true in a social context as much as it might have been originally.
This may come as a shocker, but I'm with Tom on this one.
Posts: 894 | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
Wow. My mental Tom kicked in while the real Tom was Typing his mental Dag while Dag was typing. Posts: 894 | Registered: Apr 2000
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quote:It's rude to go armed into someone else's property when the owner doesn't want any armed people there. I think the property owner's rights should trump, there, and that if the law doesn't support this, it would be rude to disrespect the owner's wishes.
I agree and I personally would never bring my gun onto someone's property if they didn't want me to. When Andrew and I went to Fairfax to visit friends, I kept my gun locked in the glove compartment while we were inside the house. There were small children there and no way to secure the gun and they wouldn't want one in their house anyway.
In fact, I make it a point to let people know that I do have a gun in my house. Andrew and I watched friends' twins while they were on vacation and I let them know that we keep a loaded gun in our house so that they could decide if they were comfortable with that. They have a gun themselves, so they were fine with it.
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posted
But since there are legitimate reasons to carry openly, then the perception of rudeness would be without much basis, wouldn't it?
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posted
A number of fashion accessories could be used to kill someone. Belts, purse straps, chains. Anything that can be wadded up and stuffed into someone's windpipe.
I have to say I wouldn't be comfortable about hanging out in a place where everyone was toting guns, any more than if folks were carrying knives or whatever. But it is legal, just as having a sweatshirt that says "Condoms, no glove, no love" is legal. I even agree with the idea, but may not have that day picked out to explain the concept to my 8 year old.
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posted
I guess I don't see any legitimate reason to carry openly except for law enforcement officers. Part of that may be because I live in a predominantly white neighborhood in a fairly small city, though. Even so, I would hope we've come far enough that my ability to visit death on you needn't be broadcast openly.
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quote:it's only in relatively recent years -- primarily after the development of firearms and reliable police -- that it's become largely unnecessary and/or impolitic.
I completely disagree that it's unnecessary to be armed in society today and so do every single one of my shooting instructors, who are former or current law enforcement officers.
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posted
When I thought about gun ownership, I decided I didn't need one. My bedroom overlooked a roof which overlooked a deck, meaning I could easily get out of the house if I heard an intruder. Plus, I'm pretty big.
While thinking about it, though, I decided I'd be more likely to want one when I have children, since I couldn't just escape a situation with kids in the house. So, one day, we'll have to think about weighing the obvious safety issues of kids in a house with guns against the possible need to protect them. With my career aspirations, we'll have to do some serious thinking.
posted
Yes, but guns can't be used to hold your pants up, and belts can. Guns are that unique fashion accessory that has no use except killing or sufficiently incapacitating another person, as opposed to, say, a brooch, which while it can be used to poke someone's eye out, is usually only so used when a long incestuous marriage has just ended in a messy suicide.
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quote:The purpose of the Eddie Eagle Program isn't to teach whether guns are good or bad, but rather to promote the protection and safety of children.
quote:Eddie Eagle is never shown touching a firearm, and he does not promote firearm ownership or use. The program prohibits the use of Eddie Eagle mascots anywhere that guns are present. The Eddie Eagle Program has no agenda other than accident prevention -- ensuring that children stay safe should they encounter a gun. The program never mentions the NRA. Nor does it encourage children to buy guns or to become NRA members.
I grew up around pistols and rifles and so did all of my cousins, neighbors, and friends. We knew not to touch them and none of us ever got hurt.
quote:My point, zgator, is that we remove our head covering in churches as a nod to the tradition of removing a helmet and/or uncovering the head to show peaceful respect.
posted
"I completely disagree that it's unnecessary to be armed in society today and so do every single one of my shooting instructors, who are former or current law enforcement officers."
Well, naturally. I would argue that they're not an unbiased sample.
More important to me than avoiding a situation in which I might be killed is avoiding a situation in which I might have to kill. And with forethought, it's generally possible to do so.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I've heard about that program, and will definitely use the materials whether I own a gun or not.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:But since there are legitimate reasons to carry openly, then the perception of rudeness would be without much basis, wouldn't it?
Actually, I think this depends very heavily on how you define rudeness. To me, rudeness involves disregard for someone else (their feelings, their personal space, etc.). There are people out there who are very uncomfortable with guns; to me, carrying openly in public disregards those feelings. Legitimate reasons may make it acceptable legally, but do not, in my opinion, eliminate the basis for perception of rudeness.
Obviously, though, people still have the right to carry openly if they want, and if the law allows for them to do so.
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quote:More important to me than avoiding a situation in which I might be killed is avoiding a situation in which I might have to kill. And with forethought, it's generally possible to do so.
The first thing that they teach in the NRA basic firearms course is that the best way to win a gunfight is to avoid one. That is the first step I take in defending myself, but I can't help where I live. I need to go to the grocery store and mall and gas station and none of those places are safe.
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posted
I think we define "safe" very differently. I mean, I even grew up in Detroit and Gary, and I never really felt unsafe.
*laugh* But I think there's a perception thing, here. I remember when I was house-shopping with Christy the first time, and realized we had very different definitions of a "good" neighborhood. To me, any block that didn't have at least four cars on blocks and/or somebody running, screaming, with a screwdriver jutting out of a temple was probably okay. Whereas she went around counting swingsets.
It was hysterical. I'd pick out a house that, by the specs, was a total steal -- and we'd drive past and she'd shudder. Visibly shudder. And I'd go, "What? We're in Champaign! There isn't a bad neighborhood in the whole town!" As measured by screwdriver-in-the-head victims, of course. *grin*
quote:To me, rudeness involves disregard for someone else (their feelings, their personal space, etc.). There are people out there who are very uncomfortable with guns; to me, carrying openly in public disregards those feelings. Legitimate reasons may make it acceptable legally, but do not, in my opinion, eliminate the basis for perception of rudeness.
Which is the basis for my comparison to offensive clothing - there are many people uncomfortable around certain types of dress.
posted
Yes, men and women have very different ideas about safety. Andrew feels safe everywhere, but he's 6'5'' and weighs 245 lbs.
To lighten things up, here are some gun anecdotes:
I went into a sporting goods store to get some shoelaces for my boots. As I was paying, I asked the salesperson if they carry holsters. He answered, "G-d no, we hate guns." I looked him right in the eye and said, "I'm an NRA recruiter." The look on his face was priceless. We had a nice conversation about guns and it turned out that he wasn't against guns for target shooting or self-defense, he'd just seen too many over-enthusiastic hunters in the store.
Last week, Andrew looked at my nightstand and said, "You are such a weirdo." I of course immediately replied, "You're the weirdo," before asking him what was up. He said, "Who else has copies of Martha Stewart Living, Vogue, Woman’s Outlook (NRA monthly), and a catalog for concealed carry purses on their nightstands?"
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posted
4 seconds. Quite a feat. About enough time to catch up with a purse snatcher, wrestle the handbag from him, pull out the gun and shoot him in the back as he tries to run away.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I completely agree, Dagonee. They're actually in the same category for me (along with people listening to their headphones so loudly that they're audible for 10 feet around them, people playing bass so loudly that my windows and dishes shake, and people chatting on their cellphones in a library).
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quote:4 seconds. Quite a feat. About enough time to catch up with a purse snatcher, wrestle the handbag from him, pull out the gun and shoot him in the back as he tries to run away.
Or to get it out the next time someone starts lighting up a McDonalds.
The proprietor of the coin shop that I frequent here in Salt Lake wears a revolver on his hip.
Loius L'Amour says in a few of his books that when you strap on a gun you determine the eventual cause of your own death.
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posted
We believe in guns but we don't have one because of my past with bi-polar illness. But I do drive a car
In terms of home security, I thought a dog was supposed to be much more effective than a gun. Better to prevent the situation than have to deal with it.
Maybe I'll invent a dog climate control system for the car so I can always have my happy german shepherd with me (I hate to see them out in the winter or shut up in the summer). It seems like a lot of the personal safety for women surrounds getting in and out of the car.
I also had an idea of a personal surveillance system, since I don't actually like dogs.
posted
Well, I don't carry a gun and I don't like them. I've been through courses, I was taught how to handle a gun and shoot one and I've shot everything from pistols to double barrel shotguns (got a bruise on my shoulder doing that)
I hate guns.
My husband, however, loves them. He is permitted to carry and does. We have many guns in the house.
Because I am a fanatic about gun safety we own a locking gun cabinet, the keys for which are kept on my husband's key ring only. If he were gone and I wanted to get a gun out of the cabinet I couldn't do it.
Ammunition is locked up separately from the guns. What ammunition we have, that is - most of the guns in the house we don't even have ammo for.
He keeps most of them because they are sentimental reminders of his dad and grandfather, and the times they spent hunting together when he was a kid.
My oldest has interest in guns. Doesn't understand why anyone else would either. The middle daughter and our son though are very interested so Wes shows them the guns and talks about gun safety and such. They are taught the rules for gun safety and all my kids know those rules.
When parents send kids over to my house to play, I always inform the parents what the gun situation is in the house - I tell them we have guns, that they're locked away and the ammo is locked separately, and if they'd rather their child not come over because of that I would understand. No one has ever changed their mind - but almost all have thanked me for being open and telling them the situation without them having to ask about it.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:4 seconds. Quite a feat. About enough time to catch up with a purse snatcher, wrestle the handbag from him, pull out the gun and shoot him in the back as he tries to run away.
I can't tell if this was meant in jest or not. I would never shoot someone in the back and I wouldn't shoot someone who quickly stole from me and ran (unless he was shooting at me as he ran). However, your point is well taken and that is why I'm getting a holster.
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