Here's the situation, as it were. I maintain my fencing club's website for a discount on tuition. The main reason I first took on the project was because our club's site used to look like the mid-1990's style of website. *gag*
(I do need to update the content management system, at the very least to the newest version of wordpress.)
Anyway. Someone from our club's other site (one club, two physical places to fence 45 minutes apart) is in marketing and spoke with our head coach and made some suggestions. As for the suggestions, I'm somewhat unsure of them in terms of working out the way we'd want them to. Right now, the site is currently easy to maintain, but the changes will make it a lot more labor-intensive (at least in terms of making the actual changes, but once done, maintenance will be easy).
Here's the possible marketing plan I was given (everything is still up for discussion, hence wanting input from the more marketing-aware):
1) Create intro page or "gateway" for website which is user-friendly for non-fencers
a. fewer, larger links on gateway
i. what's fencing about? ii. how do I start? iii. fencing videos (link to youtube videos/generate our own) iv. fencing pictures (we have plenty of these, but pare them down) v. profiles of a few fencers (to show diversity?)
b. link for current fencers/members
So, already, the issues I find are—
With the fencing video idea, we can't just link to youtube videos without permission since we'd be using them for marketing purposes. We can make our own, since we have the tools at our disposal (digicam, tripod, decent video-making skills, decent video-editing program). And if we make our own (and secure permission from the people in it before we even start), I think that's actually a good idea. However, it's labor-intensive.
With the picture idea, the current set-up of the photos on the site is a gallery for the purposes of just looking at. It isn't there to market the club itself and isn't set up that way. If we were to use pictures for marketing the club, we'd need permission from all recognizable people in them. More paperwork!
Same goes for the profiles.
As for the "gateway" idea, I'm also not sure about that. As an internet user, I've always disliked gateway pages, especially for something I'm already a part of. But this isn't about already-established members of the club.
Also, as for generating general interest in fencing, it seems to work better when you actually put a foil in someone's hand, give them some basics, and have them try it out. To do this, it would require going out to schools and doing demonstrations, including elementary, middle, and high schools, as well as some local colleges.
So on hatrack, we've got lots o' young folk and adults. What would get you to try out fencing?
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I hate gateways too. I think it is better to put something like a front page of a newspaper, with the most interesting things right there. But you seem to have a question about whether to put things for prospects up front, or things for members.
If your priority is bringing in new members, I think you should make the front page for them.
posted
I agree that the site's content and layout is dependent upon the purpose. Is it intended to market the club, or is it a resource for current members to keep up on club news, events and view good photos of tournaments and practices?
I also really hate marketing people.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Your model here is a university page. Changing the front page to look closer to a unversity page than a blog is a very good idea.
I think the extra multimedia stuff is a good idea, but not essential.
However, the prominent links for new people and for your different audiences is an excellent idea. Right now it looks like a blog and not a fencing club at all, and it is difficult to know where to start. There is way too much text on the front page - no one will read any of that. All of the links are lumped together with no distinctions among them, so someone has to read every link in hopes finding what they are looking for. It isn't clear what the purpose of the site is - if it is to bring in new members, then the site isn't making it very easy for them. If it is for established members, then the introductory text is superfluous.
It will be a lot of work, but that's what the tuition discount is for, right?
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Hmm, I'm not really sure what the question about marketing is, but I'll try.
In a recent market analysis we did we found that people like clever, personable and easy. They don't like to feel like they're being marketed to. In that interest we developed our website landing page as a basic letter with a picture of the president and his digital signature at the bottom. All of the links are hyper-links within the letter. From there the user can link back to the gallery page you already have developed, which will use it as a marketing tool, but not change it's function significantly enough to require written permission.
I would also suggest using your own videos, and not youtube. It is more labor intensive, but once completed it will lend credibility to your organization, and not annoy users with banner ads, pop-ups and whatnot.
In short, I would use a short funny letter as an intro page with hyperlinks to the other stuff. If you make a list or use a sidebar, it may appear too stuffy and deter some potential fencers.
As for what would get me to try out fencing, it would be the 'easy' part of the equation. If there is someplace nearby where I can just walk in and pick up a sword (sounds way cooler than 'foil') and start a swinging, that'd be the best bet for me.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I would try it out if there were some sort of free trial night where I could go in, try on the equipment, pick up a foil, and get some help learning the basics. Like you said, there's nothing like actually trying it out to build interest. I've always been interested in trying fencing, but it seems like a sport with a high entry barrier--lots of equipment, lots of coaching/mentoring needed, unclear benefits. I need to experience how fun it is and how easy it is to actually get involved in.
If you're trying to attract people to the club, definitely use the site's front page to build interest in fencing and giving visitors something to do--like calling to schedule a free trial class or get a free booklet on fencing or something similar. Save the "About us" section for a secondary link.
The "What is fencing?" section is important. I suspect most people don't really know what fencing is and can't picture themselves doing it. You should define fencing in terms of the benefits people can get from it, e.g. excitement, exercise, coordination, a great hobby, an opportunity to meet people, etc. Show how fencing is something the whole family can have fun doing and benefit from.
Definitely keep the class schedule, sign-up instructions, and fees on the site, but put them all together on one page.
You have way too many links in the main navigation, IMO. You should make most of them secondary links. Keep the choices clear and compelling in the main navigation.
BTW, you should think of the website as a fulfillment of your marketing communications strategy, which is an integral part of your marketing plan but not the entire marketing plan. What are your goals? Who is your audience? What is your message? How are you going to communicate your message to your audience? Who or what is your competition? Those are some questions you'd be asking in a basic marketing plan.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
For what would get me to try it: if it was possible to start off with a small commitment (one day, one group of sessions) so I could tell how much I liked it before being asked to make a big commitment.
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Marketing people are the kind of people who don't really have any useful skills, so they direct all of their energies towards herding truely creative people around and providing annoying suggestions and tossing around corporate catch phrases and buzz words in order to make themselves feel more important.
They're also usually very agressive, arrogant and difficult to work with. They tend to whine a lot when things don't go their way and make excuses for failure and pass blame on to the people they've been pushing around and forcing into the ideas that eventually failed even though the creative types told them it would.
They tend to promise features that are nearly impossible to deliver on. This is blamed on the people who have to fulfill those requirements, as they actually have to do real work rather than just boss people around.
posted
I hate "gateway" pages that are just a graphic and a link that says "click here to enter the site." Those are stupid. But a page that is aimed at new people with a link for members/regulars to get to the content that is aimed at them is not that type of gateway. In fact, members already have to click at least one link to get to content they're interested in -- they aren't going to read the "about" paragraphs, they're going to click a link for announcements or news or schedules.
I think it's important to decide who the audience for your website is and have the first page aimed at that audience.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Ah, OK, so you're talking about actual marketing people rather than the textbook definition of marketing people. Because marketing people are supposed to be fairly integral to a company's success. They can be if they do their jobs right. But so many of them don't seem to know what they're doing and are just making it up. I know what you're talking about. Believe me, I've worked with many people like that.
I think the principles of marketing are fairly important, but tend to be used more effectively by people who do something other than just "marketing." There needs to be some practical outlet or some connection to actual situations in the company.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by advice for robots: I would try it out if there were some sort of free trial night where I could go in, try on the equipment, pick up a foil, and get some help learning the basics. Like you said, there's nothing like actually trying it out to build interest. I've always been interested in trying fencing, but it seems like a sport with a high entry barrier--lots of equipment, lots of coaching/mentoring needed, unclear benefits. I need to experience how fun it is and how easy it is to actually get involved in.
This would be a pretty good route to go if you could be sure that there were enough people interested in trying it out to perhaps put together a free class just for people who knew next to nothing about fencing. That way, they'll probably feel more comfortable coming to a new place and trying it out...since no one else knows what he/she is doing, either.
I can't get the site to load. Off the top of my head, I'd see if there was an SBDC in your area that could give you good feedback...and maybe help you out with the more time-intensive Web stuff.
For it to be most effective to me, I'd put that stuff on the front page.
Also, that site did take a long time to load. Are the Hatrack views doing that, or is that typical? I almost gave up.
Posts: 2064 | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve: Marketing people are the kind of people who don't really have any useful skills, so they direct all of their energies towards herding truely creative people around and providing annoying suggestions and tossing around corporate catch phrases and buzz words in order to make themselves feel more important.
They're also usually very agressive, arrogant and difficult to work with. They tend to whine a lot when things don't go their way and make excuses for failure and pass blame on to the people they've been pushing around and forcing into the ideas that eventually failed even though the creative types told them it would.
They tend to promise features that are nearly impossible to deliver on. This is blamed on the people who have to fulfill those requirements, as they actually have to do real work rather than just boss people around.
Etc. Etc. Etc.
Let me assure you that not all marketing people are like that. Many small business who excell at their product have virtually no marketing skills, and their companies can and do suffer calamities because of this. Marketing should be a very creative process built from the business owner/president's own goals and strategies, not from what the marketing specialist wants to do. In fact, I'd say that the marketing people you've dealt with have probably been really bad at their jobs, which is unfortunate for you.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote: Right now it looks like a blog and not a fencing club at all, and it is difficult to know where to start. There is way too much text on the front page - no one will read any of that.
TOTALLY, totally agree with that statement.
Posts: 9538 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Marketing people are the kind of people who don't really have any useful skills
I hate technical people who don't know anything about marketing so their implementation of their skills ends up being confusing and/or ugly and/or shoddily implemented and/or overkill.
Actually I don't hate technical people. I get along great with IT people and with people who are actually creating product (in my case, usually faculty members).
Good marketing people are able to
a) understand what other people are doing -- or at least understand it enough to ask good questions
b) manage the expectations of a variety constituents so that whatever gets done and how that's announced isn't over-interfered with
c) shield you from crap that gets thrown at your company, project or products
e) craft very good stories and match the right content with the right delivery channels
f) provide insight on what competitors and peers are doing and how to differentiate what you're doing in a way that will lead to success
g) be persuasive in obtaining resources
Obviously, the larger the company and the more specialized the marketers are, the more room for incompetence, short-sightedness, turf protecting and all-around silliness.
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I agree with the blog vs. Web site comments and kat's comments on making it look more like a University Web site (a good University Web site, I should add).
That said, I have no idea whether or not the marketer's ideas are worth implementing or not. If they are, he/she should be able to provide some justification for them.
One of the biggest problem with marketers is that they think certain things should be done either because they'd be neat/cool or because that's what everybody else is doing. That's the wrong way to go about doing things.
Content and navigation should be governed by a) the needs/interests of your constituents and b) the resources at hand.
When people have bright ideas about shiny things they want to add to a Web site or whatever, my first comment is almost always "Okay. What is it going to take to manage this content and who is going to do it?"
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I see now that I've pretty much just repeated what's already been said.
One thing that occurs to me:
You say this "While one of the top competitive clubs in the country, we remain focused on the concept that sports are important only for their ability to define and improve character, build strong bodies, minds, and spirits, and should always remain fun."
And I think that's a very important thing to say. But the rest of the about section as well as the organization of the site really doesn't support the "non-competition" values.
I'm not sure who you are trying to attract, but I would imagine that recruiting fencers via the Web site (as opposed to networking) means people who think "I like swords. I could use some exercise. Maybe I should try fencing." Having navigation and content that draws those folks in is a good idea (assuming that you want those people -- maybe you don't).
To be totally simplistic, you want to give users the experience of "Wow! That's cool!" and then "Hey -- you could do this, no problem. We'll make it easy and fun."
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Thanks for all the advice! I'll be taking notes and bringing them in for brainstorming.
As for the text-heavy front page, I was told to do that. Sometimes, conceding is better than trying to argue.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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Another suggestion: put the announcements on the front page. There doesn't like so many that it would overwhelm, and it is useful to see what is going on with the club. It shouldn't be hidden like it is.
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
You know, I TOTALLY didn't realize this was mack asking until after I posted in the thread earlier. You would have thought the fencing thing would have been a dead give-away!
And I found Zalmoxis' post humorous, just because my FIRST time through college I was a marketing/communications major -- the SECOND time through I went into IT. I definitely do see how one side sometimes has trouble understanding the other point of view.
Posts: 9538 | Registered: Aug 2003
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I'm going through some of this same process right now. We've contracted with someone to change the interface for the NDY webpage from its "traditional" form to a blog-type interface.
We're trying to figure out the best way to lay out the front page.
The blog software is much easier to update than the traditional page and is something a low-budget, low-techie operation like ours needs (translation - I'll be doing most of the updates and blog interfaces are much easier than having to deal with the total structure of the traditional webpage format).
I don't have any good answers, because I know what I like in webpage design isn't necessarily what most people like.
Posts: 4344 | Registered: Mar 2003
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That's totally understandable. But I would add that you can build a site on a blogging platform that doesn't look quite so much like a blog.
It may mean aggregating a couple of "blogs" (or content streams) and adding some modules or plugins (or whatever the blogging platform you're on uses), but it's doable.
I think the major thing that mack's site could use is a close look at the information architecture and nomenclature. I don't think it needs a major overhaul, but you could look at nesting some links and grouping others by audience.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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If you want some good, personal marketing feedback, I'd look into contacting them. It's free, and it might take some of the pressure off you. And obviously I don't know about other states, but we have a guy at ours who specializes in helping out with web/technical stuff. They probably would, too.
posted
Not necessarily marketing related, but the whites and greys won't help if they're such low contrast. You don't need ultra saturated neon, or bright and bubbly, but some darker tons to help delineate various sections of the site would definitely help.
The font colors seem to be a dark magenta and cyan, and grey. Maybe expand on that color scheme even more. Again, it can have subdued tones etc, but get some contrast. Darks and lights.
Make it look guuud. Posts: 1236 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:since this isn't a paid project, I want to run it as easily and painlessly as possible.
But you are getting paid, right? You are getting expensive services for much less than you would normally pay. What if your fencing coach decided that since you weren't paying full tuition, he didn't have to pay much attention to you?
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Because marketing people are supposed to be fairly integral to a company's success. They can be if they do their jobs right. But so many of them don't seem to know what they're doing and are just making it up. I know what you're talking about. Believe me, I've worked with many people like that. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Off the top of my head, I'd see if there was an SBDC in your area that could give you good feedback...and maybe help you out with the more time-intensive Web stuff.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
