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Today I took my computer apart to install a new heatsink on the northbridge. When I put it all back together and tried turning it on, nothing happened (pretty much).
It looks like it's not POSTing or anything. The monitor doesn't come on. The hard drive light comes on for a second, and then the CD drive light, and then the hard drive light, on and on. I've tried reseating all the cables and memory and everything, but no luck.
When I was taking the old heatsink off, I accidentally put a tiny, tiny scratch (maybe a millimeter long) in the northbridge (in the circuity part around the edge, not the actual chip itself). Could this be the problem? If so, is there any way to fix it, short of getting a new motherboard?
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You should try starting your computer up with only the CPU and Memory installed (And video card if you don't have onboard. Use a video card that you are certain works for this, because that may be an issue). Scratching the circuitry may have done some damage, but there are a number of issues that can cause a computer not to post after being reassembled. If you unhook everything but the CPU and RAM and video and it is able to post, you can rule out the motherboard, cpu, RAM, and Video as problems. If it still doesn't post then, you'll likely have to take it in to a shop for them to test everything. Diagnosing motherboard issues is difficult unless you have the right tools (example, known good CPUs, RAM, or, in my case, a post reader ).
edit: Just so you know, there's actually never any situation where you need to replace the heatsink on a northbridge chip, unless it has a broken fan, which you should really only replace the fan. If you're trying to trick things out, avoid messing with the motherboard. There are too many things that can go wrong with them for it to be worth messing with.
[ April 15, 2005, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Boris ]
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Yeah, I probably should've just left the heatsink alone. It had been running really hot, though (almost too hot to touch), so I thought it would help improve system stability and performance.
Oh, I should also add that I tried clearing the CMOS, but that didn't help.
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If you scratched the circuits, that would do it. Better to have scratched the chip housing, by far.
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You may need to take it in to a computer shop to have them do a more thorough diagnostic on it, but it looks like you might have fried it.
Okay, that said, for motherboard chipset heat issue, the solution is not to replace the stock heatsinks. Those heatsinks that they sell in many places are more for the motherboards that don't HAVE heatsinks out of the factory(You'd be amazed, there are quite a few still out there). Stock Heatsinks are not meant to be removed unless they are installed using the post and spring method(In other words, no glue). The only recommendable way to reduce heat to your northbridge is to make sure you're getting proper airflow through the case. The best fan configuration is as follows - 1-2 fans in the front set as intake fans, 1 fan on the side panel of the computer case set as intake (this if mostly if you already have a case with one of these. Putting one into an existing case isn't extremely hard, but it doesn't always look good), 1-2 fans on the back panel set for exhaust, and one fan set up as a blowhole mounted to the top of the case for upward exhaust (This pulls almost all of the hot air, which rises, out of the case).
About the heatsink on the northbridge. It is supposed to get hot. If it's hot to the touch, that means it's working, cause all that heat is in the heatsink and not the chip. Aside from that, the northbridge's temperature will likely never affect your computer's performance, simply because the northbridge acts mostly as an addressing depot. Most northbridges use passive cooling for only two reasons. 1. A northbridge chip CAN overheat, though it is very difficult because the load isn't heavy for them. 2. I nice metal heatsink works really well to protect the chip is someone accidentally drops a hard drive on it.
So yeah...Don't mess with those.
[ April 16, 2005, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: Boris ]
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Wait, I'm not entirely sure what it is that you did.
Did you replace the heatsink sitting on top of your CPU or the heatsink that came with your motherboard? Either way another overlooked problem might be the contact area between the board/chip and the heatsink. I wouldn't give up and think the board or the chip is fried though because more often than not most recent equipment has safeguards that prevent them from being damaged by turning it off if the temperature gets too high.
My recommendation is for you to remove the heatsink you installed, reapply the thermal paste (if cpu) and make sure it's thin and even, then make sure you install the heatsink facing the right direction (There's such a thing as installing it 'backwards' believe me, it's happened to me... no, not upside down).
The problem is definitely the heatsink or the scratch you mentioned, but I'm really doubting the scratch did it so try what I suggested before giving up on it.
Edit:
Ooh, the northbridge you say? Yeah, definitely not a good idea to replace that heatsink there, I'd still try reinstalling the heatsink to see if that helps but if that doesn't fix your problem I'd consider taking it to the shop.
quote: I'd still try reinstalling the heatsink to see if that helps but if that doesn't fix your problem I'd consider taking it to the shop.
If the heatsink is attached using thermal tape (or glue...whatever you want to call it, basically a semi-permanent adhesive conection between heatsink and chip), removing the heatsink to re-seat or readjust it can do more harm than good. If you look closely at the scratch you made to the motherboard, you can come pretty close to determining whether or not it is serious enough to destroy the motherboard. If you scratched through one of the lines (the raised portion of the circuit) on the board, you may have broken the circuit, which means the mobo is toast. If the scratch doesn't go through any of the small circuit lines, you should be okay.
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Yeah I meant for the CPU and the thermal compound that helps conduct the heat from the chip to the heatsink. Of course it would be a bad idea to attempt to pry the heatsink off the board once it has been glued to it Posts: 459 | Registered: Mar 2005
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Hey, Rico, why don't you actually read Jon Boy's post before posting? He said that he replaced the heatsink on the northbridge- not the CPU. Short on reading comprehension, are we?
Boris, scratching a circuit isn't the end of a motherboard. You can bridge the connection with a little solder and a small wire. It's not that hard. If the motherboard is toast anyways, it can be worth a shot.
HOWEVER, this is a pretty complex answer to a problem that may not be quite so difficult. I really wouldn't begin to even guess at Jon's problems without the PC actually being in front of me.
Jon, in the future, if you're concerned about the heat on any object with a passive heatsink on it, just toss a small fan on top of the heatsink. It will help keep it a bit cooler and will save a lot of hassle in the long run.
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What I gave is still sensible advice as far as I know because I have run into a similar problem in the past and found out how to fix it, I'm just trying to pass on information I would have liked to have when it first happened to me instead of wasting my time troubleshooting for hours.
quote: Boris, scratching a circuit isn't the end of a motherboard. You can bridge the connection with a little solder and a small wire. It's not that hard. If the motherboard is toast anyways, it can be worth a shot.
Uhhh, right...You go ahead and do that, Primal. I'd like to see you do that actually. Mostly because I'd like to see someone with enough skill to solder a connection onto a wire that's half the size of a sewing needle. Granted, if he broke through one wire in the circuit, yes, you could dab a small ammount of solder on there and fix it. However, there is some likelyhood that if one wire is broken, the one right next to it is as well...Solder won't work there.
Next, maybe you should look at what he read as well. Here's what we know. Prior to removing the heatsink from the northbridge and replacing it, the computer worked perfectly. On the assumption that he did absolutely nothing else to the computer, and noting the fact that the computer still will not boot even when it has the bare minimum required to post, suggests that he has done some damage to the motherboard. I don't care what you think, soldering connections on a motherboard is plain stupid. There is not a human being on earth with enough skill in soldering to repair circuit traces on a motherboard. That's why they are manufactured with machines. That's why they are designed with computers.
Finally, I'm not going to suggest a final diagnostic on something like this over the internet. If I had it in front of me, I have the tools I need to tell you within 10 seconds if the motherboard is working or not. That's why I suggest he take the thing in to a shop, where they have tools, to figure this stuff out. My comment that he could have scratched out a circuit was a suggestion to let him know if the scratch is a legitimate problem. It's not meant to tell him whether or not the whole thing is fried. To me, it seems like his computer is fubar. But like I said, I can't say that for certain.
And please, next time you feel like rebutting someone's technical advice, be a little less hostile.
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Yes, it looks like the scratch went through one or two wires in the circuit. I've inspected everything else very closely, and it all looks fine except for that scratch, so there's really no doubt in my mind that that's the problem. Is it even worth taking it into a shop to have them look at it? I doubt there's anything they can do to fix something like that, so it sounds like it'll just be a waste of money that could be better spent on a new motherboard.
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Well, it may be worth the money to you to get all of your computer into a shop where they can test everything and make certain it will work with a different motherboard. However, if you're willing to take the risk of just getting a new motherboard, you're welcome to it. The risk involved is that there may actually still be a small problem that is being overlooked that can't be figured out over the internet. If that's the case, the new mobo might not fix anything. It's a matter of how much you're willing to pay for certainty. If you want to risk possibly spending more money by accepting what I've told you as the problem, then just get a new motherboard and pray. But getting it into a shop will give you a definitive answer about what's wrong.
Note, though, that just getting the motherboard may fix everything. Which is obviously the best case scenario.
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It's probably worth pointing out that this is a Shuttle XPC system, so I can't simply buy a new motherboard; I'll have to buy a new motherboard/case combo.
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