-Do Jews believe in "hell" as catholics/dante believe in it.
-what is your policy on who goes to "heaven" do they have to be jewish? what are the minimum requirements
-which stereotypes are true/untrue? or eeriely common
-are rabbi's allowed to marry?
-is what I hear about the Talmud correct that it is the continual reinterpretation of the Torah by Hebrew scholars so that any passages that may seem "unclear" are better interpreted in todays times.
-Would you (personal question) ever like to visist jerulsolem one day? (curiosity)
-do you like Babylon 5 epidsode 5 where at the end they had as the human part of the festival where they're supposed to show Earth's dominant religion they showed a representative from EVERY religion/sect on Earth.
-is there anything similar between the christian schisms (Catholic, Greek Orthadoxed, protestant etc) among Hebrews?
-Whats the story about circumshism? What's the story behind it?
-is there a general slant among Jews towards the political left?
Now the purpose of this thread is that when I talk I hate to look like and idiot its bad enough I find it hard to thnk on my feet so I feel the need to be englightened since I feel so ignorant in Jewish culture, my interest has heightened since reading "In The Presence of Mine Enemies" by Harry Turtledove. Please this isn't thread looking for "facts" per say but what YOU personally believe and what you think is the proper answer.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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"Do Jews believe in "hell" as catholics/dante believe in it"
No. There is no physical hell.
"are rabbi's allowed to marry?"
Yes. Its encouraged.
"is what I hear about the Talmud correct that it is the continual reinterpretation of the Torah by Hebrew scholars so that any passages that may seem "unclear" are better interpreted in todays times."
The talmud is a collection of debates on the law and the tanakh (the collection of holy books) by earlier rabbis. There's an ongoing debate about whether the talmud should be re-opened for modern rabbis to enter their remarks. The passages that are "unclear" are rarely clarified by the talmud, rather, there are a collection of different responses to the topic. One thing that many rabbi's like to say about judaism is that "Every view point is supported by someone." The talmud is a debate... not doctrine. So no matter what position you may take on, for example, the free will of Pharoah during the exodus, you can probably find support for it in the talmud.
"Would you (personal question) ever like to visist jerulsolem one day? (curiosity)"
I've been. I believe most jews want to visit jerusalem.
"is there anything similar between the christian schisms (Catholic, Greek Orthadoxed, protestant etc) among Hebrews?"
Similar, yes. As drastic, not really. THere are several sects of orthodox jews, conservative, reform, reconstructionist, etc. Much of the split is on how to incorporate the law into modern life.
"Whats the story about circumshism? What's the story behind it?"
Pretty straight forward. God commanded abraham that he and his descendants should circumsize male children at 8 days, and this would be a sign to god that we worhsip god.
"-is there a general slant among Jews towards the political left?"
Usually. Jews tend to value learning, academics, debate, and tolerance, much higher then the general population. Part of this is the nature of judaism... the whole thing is one big discussion about what god wants of us. Part of it is cultural... we've been kicked out of so many places, oppressed by so many governments, and this is such a part of our self-story, that we have a greater respect for what can happen when things go wrong with a government. Also, Judaism is different then christianity in that we don't proselytize... and we believe Judaism is for Jews, not for everyone. So we're not trying to push our religious laws on people who aren't followers of those laws (in fact, Jews are supposed to treat Jews and non-Jews by a different set of laws).
Some of your other questions, it depends on which jew you ask.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
Hmm, Noemon, should I understand that you searched for "ask" also? Because that's what I did, not knowing how "Rebbetzin" was spelled.
And Ela, I just gave it a try with google, and boy, was it fast! o_O I wonder if it's because I bumped it to the first page right now, or it would have worked just as fast before... Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I think google would be faster anyway, cause google has tolerance for spelling errors. I couldn't remember how rivka had spelled "rebbetzin." If you spell it wrong using the Hatrack search engine, it just tells you it doesn't exist.
Posts: 5771 | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
I see, after seeing that we're conquering the world you want to convert! Well, it's a yucky proccess, I recommend waiting a decade or two until reformic conversion will be accepted in Israel.
Posts: 803 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Reform conversions still won't be valid under halacha, Beanny, even if the Israeli government chooses to accept them.
Scott, you and I had this discussion already, in the Rebbetzin thread. Do we have to do it again?
Erm, rivka, I think you're mistaking me for someone else. This is the first time I've ever mentioned the topic on the net.
Posts: 803 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
It seemed as though you were referring to a conversation of the three of us (Scott, you and I), and besides, Scott didn't write anything after my comment. Posts: 803 | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Dags, could you clarify your question? Why would it?
Well, two of the laws are:
# Don't worship idols # Don't blaspheme God
Under current first amendment interpretations, banning either would be unconstitutional. Yet the law I asked about requires a justice system to enforce these rules.
I'm just wondering how the two are reconciled. It's very much a lawyer's question.
posted
You can have the discussion again. Because Tater would like to know also.
quote:Don't eat the limb from an animal that is still living.
That reminds me of one of those warnings they put on things that are like.. "Do not operate this electrical appliance while in water." And you think, "They wouldn't have had to put that on there if someone hadn't tried it.. would they?"
posted
Dags, that is an excellent question, to which I do not know the answer.
I'm not sure that the required justice system must enforce all the other six laws. And certainly a system that did not do so fully is far preferable to none.
posted
In all seriousness, I would be happy to reopen the discussion regarding the different roles of different people according to traditional Judaism -- next week.
Meanwhile, here's what I had to say last time.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Not only do many of the more curiously specific rules from ancient Jewish scripture read as if they were specific responses to things people had done, it is my understanding that quite a number of them are specific responses to the religious rituals of the idolatrous pagan nations among whom the ancient Israelites lived. For example, if the pagans' rites involved specific sexual activities, in specific kinds of places, a law might be introduced to avoid those kinds of acts, or acts in those places. Or if the idolatrous rites involved specific foods, or foods prepared a particular way, or foods previously offered to pagan deities, then there might be a law prohibiting those specific dietary practices. To modern people whose neighbors don't practice those old idolatrous religions, the corresponding laws sometimes seem kind of strange.
Posts: 1652 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Alright thanks for all the ansers so far keep it up.
Sadly I'm not religious enough to convert without in my mind insulting your faith which I have so much respect for. When I ever get a religious feeling into me I'll be considering very strongly which faith I'll consider to be my own.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
And sorry about the switch betwen Jew and Hebrew I didn't know which one was the politer term.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
It's not a question of politeness, it's a question of accuracy. The Hebrews were an ancient people living in and around Canaan. Some of them were Jews, and some of them were not. The Jews are adherents of the religion about which you were asking, Judaism. Some, no doubt, are descended from the Hebrews, while some are not.
posted
"is there a general slant among Jews towards the political left? There used to be. Not so much in the US anymore, because there are a lot of leftists here who don't think Israel has the right to exist."
Despite this trend among leftists, jews still overwhelmingly vote for leftist politicians in the US.
Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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quote: The Hebrews were an ancient people living in and around Canaan. Some of them were Jews, and some of them were not. The Jews are adherents of the religion about which you were asking, Judaism. Some, no doubt, are descended from the Hebrews, while some are not.
Verily, I think you got it wrong on that post.
First of all, if you were relating to the Canaan natives as Hebrews, they were never called Hebrews. If you weren't - then excuse me.
Secondly - Judaism is not a seperate religion from the one held by the Hebrews. Elaboration:
Abaraham was the first one to be called "Ivri" (Hebrew), and he originated from Mesopotamia. Only his family was called "Hebrew", until Jacob (his grandson) was given the name "Israel" - and from that moment the bible uses both terms: "Bnei Yisrael" (sons of Israel) and "Ivrim".
What we call today the Jewish religion, was formally founded in Mount Sinai, when (according to the Bible) God presented the 10 commandments and gave the Hebrews strict rules in all fields. They were still called Hebrews after that. Judaism is not a seperate religion from the Hebrews, it is just a new name:
The term "Jew" originates from "Judea", which was the strongest Israeli tribe, and the only one to survive exhile, with the Simeon Tibe and half of Benjamin, who merged with Judea quite recently after conquering Canaan.
posted
By the way, Sid - Judaism is not only a religion, but a nation. Conversion to Judaism isn't only about changing what you believe in, it's about joining a family.
That's why conversion is so difficult - not because of the strictness of laws (most of which aren't obeyed nowadays by unorthodox or unconservative Jews), but because you are obligated to other millions of Jews in the world, and you can't just live alone with your beliefs.
Posts: 803 | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:First of all, if you were relating to the Canaan natives as Hebrews, they were never called Hebrews. If you weren't - then excuse me.
All I said was that they lived in Canaan. I never said they originated there. They certainly established their most prominent kingdoms there. The Turks didn't originate in Anatolia, but we still call that region "Turkey" today because that's where their most prominent nation was based.
quote:Judaism is not a seperate religion from the one held by the Hebrews.
I had understood that there were tribes of Hebrews who were not Jews--who worshipped deities other than Yahweh and did not follow the laws of the Torah. If that's not true, then I stand corrected. But that doesn't change the truth value of my assertion that "Hebrew" is not just another word for "Jew". It has a different denotation and is not typically used to refer to the community of Judaism as a whole. It may have been in Biblical times, but the questions in the original post were not directed toward people from Biblical times, I can only assume.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote: What we call today the Jewish religion, was formally founded in Mount Sinai, when (according to the Bible) God presented the 10 commandments and gave the Hebrews strict rules in all fields. They were still called Hebrews after that. Judaism is not a seperate religion from the Hebrews, it is just a new name:
Minor semantic complaint: The term "Hebrews" refers to a nationality, as it were. The term "Jews" refers to people who practice a specific religion. As you point out, the Jewish religion came into existence when the Torah was given to the Hebrews at Mt. Sinai. At that time, all of the people we know to be Hebrews were Jews.
However, the term "Hebrews" is no longer applicable to all Jews, because now there are Jews of many different nationalities.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Verily, now I understand better what you meant. Sorry for...erm...saying that you were wrong?
The Hebrew kingdom was seperated to two after the death of king Solomon - Judea (who eventually survived) and Israel. Most Israelis were exhiled by Assyria (however not all sinned and not all were banished, and those did not neccesarily join Judea - so they are, in fact non-Jewish Hebrews who practice the same religion). The non-Jewish Hebrews you talked about were the Israelis.
Oh, and Bill Door - Judaism is a nation. Not only a religion. It isn't like Christianity. If it were a religion, than Jews would aspire that non-Jews convert - and they do not.
Posts: 803 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I always wondered if the other tribes of Israel counted as Jews. Not just the northern kingdom, but Benjamin and whoever else stayed in Judah. Would someone from the tribe of Benjamin be considered, in modern senses of the word, a Jew?
And how much Jewish blood qualifies you as Jewish? My grandfather's parents were German immigrants of an unspecified Jewish extraction. Does that make me part Jewish? Do you have to have a specific genealogy proving your descent?
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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quote: Oh, and Bill Door - Judaism is a nation. Not only a religion. It isn't like Christianity. If it were a religion, than Jews would aspire that non-Jews convert - and they do not.
Judaism is a religion, and only a religion. Jews have a multitude of national identities, both in modern and historical terms. In modern terms, there are Canadian Jews, Argentinian Jews, French Jews, Israeli Jews, and many others. In historical terms, there are Ashkenazic Jews, Sephardic Jews, and several smaller groups.
To say that Judaism is a nationality indicates that Jews can never be a part of the countries where they live. That is the justification generally used by anti-Semites who are seeking to get the government involved in their persecution of the Jews. I could elaborate further, but someone would most likely invoke Godwin's Law
Conversion has nothing to do with it. Not all religions seek converts, and some nations do seek converts.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote: I always wondered if the other tribes of Israel counted as Jews. Not just the northern kingdom, but Benjamin and whoever else stayed in Judah. Would someone from the tribe of Benjamin be considered, in modern senses of the word, a Jew?
We're not really sure who belonged to which tribe anymore, except for the Cohen and Levite tribes. Also, tribal lineage is through the father and Jewish lineage is through the mother, so this isn't really a valid question in a logical sense.
It is a good question though
quote:And how much Jewish blood qualifies you as Jewish? My grandfather's parents were German immigrants of an unspecified Jewish extraction. Does that make me part Jewish? Do you have to have a specific genealogy proving your descent?
You're Jewish if your mother was Jewish at the time of your birth, or if you converted at any point in your life.
You don't really need a geneaology to prove your descent; after a couple of generations, it is very rare that anyone will ask any questions. But there are some very serious political issues involved with those questions that I'd rather not get into right now.
(Note on my previous post: This is why Judaism takes on some characteristics of a nation or a race even though it isn't.)
[ April 20, 2005, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Bill Door ]
Posts: 24 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Bill Door, in my ID card it says under "nationality" - "Jewish" . Not American, not Israeli. In this case, the antisemites were partially right. Most Jews have more than one nationality.
Annie, in Judaism there's no such thing as "partially Jewish". If your mother was a Jew, and her mother was a Jew, and her mother was a Jew, so on and so forth, than you're a Jew. Fathers don't affect a thing.
posted
Oh, and what if your family is Jewish but you convert to another religion? Are you still Jewish?
The only Jews I've known personally (and not through Hatrack) were Messianic Jews. They considered themselves still 100% Jewish, though, if only in a heritage sense.
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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I have some nits to pick with points you made. (This is how we welcome newbies here. )
quote: Judaism is a religion, and only a religion.
I strongly disagree with that statement. It is so much more than that!
quote: Jews have a multitude of national identities, both in modern and historical terms. In modern terms, there are Canadian Jews, Argentinian Jews, French Jews, Israeli Jews, and many others. In historical terms, there are Ashkenazic Jews, Sephardic Jews, and several smaller groups.
And yet, they are all Jews.
I like the definition I've heard: Judaism is a people.
quote:
quote: I always wondered if the other tribes of Israel counted as Jews. Not just the northern kingdom, but Benjamin and whoever else stayed in Judah. Would someone from the tribe of Benjamin be considered, in modern senses of the word, a Jew?
We're not really sure who belonged to which tribe anymore, except for the Cohen and Levite tribes. Also, tribal lineage is through the father and Jewish lineage is through the mother, so this isn't really a valid question in a logical sense.
Actually, there are many Jews who can trace their lineage back, and know exactly which tribe they come from. I can . . . on my mother's side. And it is only a fairly recent thing (well, relatively speaking -- over 2000 years <g>) that all Jews are called "Yehudim" -- Jews -- and not just by their tribe. Even in Megillat Esther, one of the later works included in the Tanach, Mordechai is identified as a Binyamini, a member of the tribe of Benyamin. (He is also identified as a Yehudi, a Jew.)
quote: Oh, and what if your family is Jewish but you convert to another religion? Are you still Jewish?
Yep. Once we gotcha, ain't never lettin' ya go. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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