posted
Hey, we're an hour into this thing and I don't see anyone posting on this. Anyone else watching?
Starting off pretty solid. I don't want to get into anything I can't finish in the commercials, but I did have one observation. I'm impressed that they're back to using middle-eastern terrorists. I thought they were too PC for that. It reminds me of when Star Trek: Voyager came out. You could tell they were getting more comfortable with the "new series" idea when they could put a Vulcan back on the staff without worrying about appearing derivative.
One thing I noticed in the first hour that bugged me a little, although I realize it's nothing more than me being anal. Remember when the hacker found the people setting up code, and he said that it was in "some middle-eastern language, like Turkish or Arabic?" Turkish and Arabic are in completely different language families... about as similar as English and Arabic. So unless he knows one of those languages, how was he able to narrow it down to those two?
[/anality] I'll suspend my disbelief and continue watching.
posted
Oh, melon farmer! I remember why I hate this show so much.
edit: Allow me just to make clear... I don't hate the show because it's not good. I hate it because it's too good. Those cliffhangers are torturous. I'm beginning to remember why I skipped last year. Every week there's just one more thing guaranteed to utterly piss me off. I don't know if I'm ready for that kind of an emotional investment.
Yeah, who am I kidding. Those b***ards have me again.
posted
Well, I liked it...but...between you, me, and the rest of Hatrack, that was actually the first full episode (or two episodes, I guess) I've ever seen of this show.
Posts: 2292 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Fourth year??? Egads. I watched the first year, and I missed last year, and thought this was the third year. What happened to a year?
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Um, I can assume that people know this thread is going to be full of spoilers, right? Well, if you didn't know it already, lots of spoilers follow!
Well, this season certainly started with a bang (quite a few of them!). CTU certainly looks different, and I'm a little sad to see that only Chloe is still there (I haven't seen the end of 24 season 3, so please don't tell me what happens to people). And obviously David Palmer didn't get re-elected, which knocks out one of Jack's most important supports.
Right now the relationship between Jack and Audrey seems forced. Jack and Kate developed over the course of a season, which made it seem more natural. The relationship between Teri and Jack also seemed realistic, perhaps because it had a lot of flaws but also a lot of love. We'll see how this turns out. God forbid Jack lose another woman that he loves--he'll be a basket case if that happens.
The internet video of Heller was interesting because it so closely mimics the photos I've seen of the terrorist victims in Iraq. I'm somewhat surprised they'd do something like that, but it certainly makes it seem more real.
The theme of Jack going against his superiors, usually in a violent manner, is getting a little old. It's exciting, but Jack should have been sent to prison for life by now for all the things he has done. He routinely does things that get innocents killed (the jail riots in season 3, for instance), tortures suspects for information, gets other CTU agents in trouble for illegally helping him, and lets his emotions get in the way to a pretty extreme degree. The only reason he gets away with it is because he is always right, which is improbable even if he is the best agent ever.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I'm sure anything he did during the first three seasons received a pardon from Palmer and working for SecDef probably doesn't leave him out of the Presidential loop.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I believe they cleared a lot of the stuff about where people are up in the first 15 min of the show. This episode is taking place at least a few years after the last one. So David Palmer is not president because, well, he can only be president for 8 years. On the phone it's mentioned that Tony is working for a private security company.
I believe that old cast members will be waltzing in and out of future episodes.
Posts: 872 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I'm excited about this season. I'm very glad that Kim's not back, she has been tolerable at most every other season. I think that the pace is good.. I'm looking forward to another good year!
Posts: 862 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Tony is probably in jail, and his wife probably took that job at Division ...
I'm also tempted to think that Audrey is involved in the kidnapping. Though it sure would give Jack a terrible track record with the ladies. "Who is the mole?" "I don't know, who is Jack dating? That's the mole."
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Overall, I was not very impressed with the first two episodes. The dialogue was not very well written (even for 24). There was a lot of inane technobabble about the internet attack, and quite a few things seemed forced, like Secretary Heller's meeting with his son, Driscoll's entire character, and Chole's constant personal attacks. Granted, Chloe has some social issues, but she was usually more defensive than offensive last season.
Also, why was that sleeper-cell family speaking English amongst themselves? It would make more sense if they spoke Arabic, with subtitles. Plus, none of the three of them can act their way out of a paper bag.
If this were the series premire, I would not have given the show a third chance.
Also, Sarah, did you see the end of season 3?
Posts: 1357 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I didn't watch much of season three till the last five or so episodes, it seems the show generally drags along until the end of each season. The dialogue was pretty forced and I didn't like Driscoll's character at all. Why would they put someone basically incompetent in charge of CTU?
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I think I've blocked the end of season 3. I think it's more accurate to say I've sorta blurred season 2 and 3 together. Maybe I should do a recap. I mean I think I remember who didn't die and is just missing at this point.
Posts: 872 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Cocinelle, yeah. I've never seen an episode on TV before. Fortunately, I don't actually care about any of the characters besides Jack yet and he's not in danger.
I bet there will be some interesting twists with the terrorist family, like the mother being a good guy--er, gal. Or maybe the son will all turn them in. Or something. I thought that maybe they just looked guilty like Raiza, but when the father started talking about the kidnapping, I had to discard that hypothesis.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
It's also possible that she just paralyzed the girl and she's not really dead. Wait.. this isn't Alias, they haven't resurrected the dead in this series yet.
Posts: 862 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Just to echo what a couple others have said, this season sucks so far.
quote:As a foil for Jack of course. He can't be insubordinate if his superior does a good job.
Yes, he can (cf. Season 1). They just need to do actual good scripting and think up interesting ways for things to go awry.
The CTU office politics is retarded. In previous seasons the environment there was tense because there were traitors and suspected traitors hanging around. Now everyone is just pissy for no reason.
Another bad sign: there are no characters that I like (or are acted well) except Jack.
The only reason to have much hope is that I questioned the worth of season 2 for the first 4 or 5 hours, and that turned out to be amazing.
Posts: 4600 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Sarah, Palmer decided not to run for a second term at the end of season 3. That's why he's no longer president.
Posts: 1357 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Why doesn't Jack just tell the cops he's with CTU? Haven't they already mentioned on multiple occassions that CTU has overriding authority over the LAPD? I know he wouldn't have a badge on him, although maybe he could still use ID to prove that he's a member of the DoD, but a quick call to CTU could prove that he is who he says he is and even if Driscoll wanted him detained that would be better than county lockup. Also, why hasn't he even tried making a direct appeal to the president as the man who's already saved the country and currently works for the DoD?
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Give me back kick-ass Michelle and Tony, or George Mason after he became cool. Give me Palmer the Good President who doesn't spout stupid rhetoric like Keeler gave us in this episode. Give me the cool villains like Gaines and Salazar and Nina.
Whatever happened to the great characters this show used to have? They've been replaced with annoying idiots and flat, stereotypical bad guys.
*SPOILER*
Though I have to say I laughed at Jack holding up the convenience store. That was classic Jack.
posted
Jack should be able to get out of this newest wacky scrape pretty easily. But he doesn't know that. He doesn't know Driscoll's essentially on his side now, after everyone in CTU found out Jack was right. Very glad he didn't go for the gun.
Incidentally, in addition to Chloe's brief stint as mole, there's strong evidence for two seperate terrorist moles: the only people who Chloe told about Alexander Paige were Driscoll and the FBI, and the only people who knew where Heller was going to be were his daughter, Jack, his son, and his security. Two non-overlapping groups.
I find it funny that the actor playing Alex Paige is in approximately the same boat as he was in in Witness oh those many years ago. Insight credit to Television Without Pity.
In addition to his daughter, off-beat theories on the Heller mole are Jack and Heller. I like the thought that Jack-wearing-a-suit is just as much a false front as Jack-doing-heroin.
Posts: 535 | Registered: Sep 2000
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Monday night FOX tv station did not work in my town--not on cable or on the locoal translator station.
I missed two episodes!
Some one please catch me up!!!!!!!!!
The best way for this show to be more interesting for me then the first three is if the moral ambiguity of Jack gets so fuzzy in his mind that he becomes a terrorist.
Using torture has become so second nature to him that I can see him sliding away from the good guys list. Think about everything he has had to do, had to loose, and has been addicted to to get to where he is today.
He has always had the support of the government and a very faithful staff.
Now he is alone--except for Chloe. He has no history with anyone who is above him. He is driven by emotion for his new love and not reason.
Jack normally could put his emotions on hold to do the job, now his emotions are driving him. I hope he acts so irrationally he crosses the line.
Jack would make a dangerous monster. Maybe they could release Tony to hunt him down.
Every season they break Jack more. How much more can he take before he is broken?
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
When I watched the scene where the kid had the gun and the mother took it away from him, I was hoping he'd shoot her. But at the same time, I realized that if he did, I'd have to call B.S. on the entire situation. There's no way a teenager is going to shoot his mother, especially when she's so adept at controlling him. So I'd have found it emotionally satisfying but totally unbelievable if that's what had happened.
Also, I don't know about the rest of you, but I like the terrorist family. I think they're all good actors... the mother is an academy award nominee. And I know a few foreign families who speak English at home because they want to learn it as quickly as possible. One family in particular I know... they moved to America from The Netherlands, and the father knew how important it would be to learn English in a short amount of time, so he made a rule that his family was only allowed to speak Dutch, even to each other, one day a week. Within a year they were completely fluent, and within two years you couldn't even hear an accent in his teenage kids. If this family is on a covert mission of terror, I can see how they would find an advantage in following a similar rule.
Anyway, I think I'm liking this season a lot more than the rest of you seem to be. I loved the gas station holdup. I can't wait to see what happens tonight.
Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
I must admit one thing... even though I bought the English speaking at home, I would have found it infinitely more amusing if the terrorists wandered around saying, "durka durka mohammed jihad". Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
The thing about the gas station holdup and the torture and all that is, in this season these extreme measures of Jack's are much less justified. He's out to save 2 measly people this time -- no presidential candidate, no USA threatened by nuclear or biological attack. There's really no justification for him messing around with innocents civilians.
Posts: 4600 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
But Destineer, one of those two people was the Secretary of Defense, and the other was the SecDef's daughter, with whom Jack is in love.
But this is the intriguing point for me--Jack's over-the-top extremism, like where he bursts into the room where the terrorist is being questioned, and he shoots him in the leg, and promises to shoot him again if he doesn't tell them who the primary target is (bombing the train and killing dozens of people was just a secondary diversion). In the context of the modern debate about what constitutes torture and mistreatment of prisoners, and whether anything goes when interrogating terrorists, this is an electrifying thing for the writers to include in this story. Then after that, of course, Jack held up a service station convenience store to delay the terrorist he was tracking until a satellite could be diverted to track the terrorist in rugged terrain and hopefully be led to where the Secretary of Defense and his daughter are being held.
What really makes the plot incendiary is the clear fact of Driscoll's incompetence, and even illegally using her agency's resources to stop police officers who have already been dispatched to pick up her bipolar daughter who's off her meds and has been terrorizing the neighbors. Driscoll's got to go down for all of this. But how is Jack going to be treated in the end? If he succeeds in rescuing the SecDef and his daughter, he should get a Congressional Medal of Honor; but for all the over-the-line things he has done, he should also be thrown in prison. Do the ends justify the means, even when dealing with terrorists?
The resolution of this is what I am really looking forward to.
[ January 17, 2005, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I think Mrs Araz is the creepiest mom ever. And it's not just what she's willing to do to hurt Americans... it's those eyes... creeeeeepy... I feel bad for Beruz... he's going along with it becuase he's brainwashed and pressured by his evil parents.
I don't think the terrorists are done. The Train, Heller.. I think something bigger is coming. Mrs Araz said that when the day is over the police will have more to worry about than a runaway girl. Whatever is in that box that Beruz dropped off at the warehouse is going to be something awful.
But they've already done nuke and they've already done plague... Is it going to be some chemical weapon?
Driscall will probably be out in a few weeks. CTU has a history of "yo-yo bosses." Remember season 1 when like 5 people ran CTU in the course of a day? Then again. Obstructionist beurocrats tend to run CTU in this show until they die in some horrible fashion.
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Like Pixiest sort of said, its not just two people. We've already gotten multiple warnings that whatever happens to SecDef is not the end all of the series. I think that he'll be dead or rescued half way through the series and then Jack will have to deal with the big threat.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Coccinelle lent me Season One of this show last week. I started watching it Thursday night, was home sick from work on Friday, and despite going to a party on Sat, church on Sun, and hanging out with C on Friday night, I finished it this morning. I have since spoilered myself as much as I possibly can for the rest of the seasons so I never watch an entire 24 episode season of any show in three days again. I have to say, the cop/thriller show is not my favorite genre, but this was very, very well done.
[ January 17, 2005, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Man, the President and his staff are really afraid of the country's getting "embarrassed" by these terrorists, to the point where they're willing to kill Heller to stop the trial.
My guess: the guy actually is some sort of war criminal. This would be a fun twist for them to pull.
But perhaps not... after all, as Pix correctly pointed out, indications are that they'll soon move beyond the Heller plotline. Who knows? All I know is, I liked tonight's episode better than anything this season has put forth so far.
Posts: 4600 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
If Heller was really guilty, why would they force him to sign confessions? Wouldn't it look a lot better if they got him to admit the things he did under his own free will? For example, if he ordered the bombing of an Arab town shouldn't he be defending why while admitting that he did? From the terrorists perspective the possible justification doesn't matter so they get everything.
I'm going to guess that the broadcast will be a message to sleeper cells to strike.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
why bomb Heller? COuldn't they just cut the power, scramble the wireless internet, or call the internet provider in that area and have them shut down? I think it would be as easy to cut their power as it would be to drop- a bomb.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I kind of liked the double bluff. She was the last person that I thought might be a mole, just because they were making it so obvious. It's never the person you think it is, so this season it will be. I like how they're screwing with our expectations.
Of course, there's still the chance they might make her a double agent like they did last season. Or, alternately, I don't remember her making it clear who she was talking to. She could be a plant from the FBI or something like that as well.
The only thing I find implausable is the fact that every time the terrorists do anything, they're always able to get a mole into CTU first. These people really need to work on their background checks.
Would the trial really have increased internet traffic that much? I mean, it's pretty heavy to begin with. And something like that, all the TV stations probably would have picked it up and broadcasted it. Not to mention the fact that the average American doesn't even know who the Secretary of Defense is, so why would they be concerned about this? Wouldn't there have been a less risky way to do it? Gees, if they could have got a video of some naked celebrity, they probably could have got just as much traffic without getting the Feds all up in their grill.
Did anyone else think the SoD got out of the Orange jumpsuite, shaved, put on a suit, and got to CTU a little too quickly?
I LOVE the show and give them the benefit of the doubt all the time, but I don't think I can stretch my brain enough to accept he could change, freshen up, shave, look rested, and make it back to CTU all durring the time it took for the advertizers to try and sell me a car.
The commercials were just not that long.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Speed, I think you missed that the trial was just a sham, a distraction to keep CTU too busy to figure out what's really going on. The servers are for the mass DOS attack, not just for broadcasting the trial.
Posts: 1357 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
That's what I'm saying. The trial may have distracted them from what was really going on, but it was a dead giveaway that something was going on. And the only reason for it was to put a lot of net traffic around them so that they could hide the bandwidth they were using to hack into the system. It wasn't to fool CTU, it was to keep the people in charge of security at the nuclear power plants from noticing the spike in usage that would tip them off about the hack. And they could have created excess internet traffic from anything else without giving themselves away as terrorists so quickly.
Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
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