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Author Topic: Using the Ender & Ender's Game name?
Fuzz
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Hello,
I'm basically looking for information on who I can get in contact with reguarding using the Ender name in a project i'm going to be working on. I don't really want to reveal too much but it has to do with the battle room parts of the book. The project would be not-for-profit, but I'm still unsure who to talk to and how to handle this situation. If anyone here has run into this, or has any ideas, shoot me an email or post here. Thanks Tons.

--Fuzz

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Jay
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Sort of have a little going on the other side about this one too:

http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/main/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003253

Ender is sort of a unique thing. Should be interesting to hear what the copyright does do.

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Fuzz
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I really just need to find out who to email to ask for permission to use the name. Have you found out any leads off of that post? I mean, maybe I could email the publisher but i'm unsure whether they'd understand what i'm doing with the name. I just don't want to end up starting this project and getting a cease and desist when i'm half way through.
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TL
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You're here at Orson Scott Card's website, so you're off to a good start. I'll give you one guess as to who owns the rights to everything associated with Ender.

(waits)

(waits)

*Ding ding ding!*

You got it.

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TL
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[/hateful, bitter, angry sarcasm *off*]

Fuzz, OSC often reads and responds to threads on this forum, especially in the "Discussions about Orson Scott Card" section. Why don't you post your request over there, clearly detailed and explained? Chances are, he will respond.

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Fuzz
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Well, I wasn't sure whether it was he or the publisher that owned the copyright. The next question is, how would i get directly in contact with Mr. Card if he's the copyright holder?
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TL
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Actually I wasn't being angry, just hateful and bitter.

*grin*

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TomDavidson
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If it's about creating a FPS game mod for the Battle Room, I should warn you that it's a no-can-do on that one. The rights are already sold, as I understand it.
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Fuzz
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Okay TL, hehe, no problem 'bout the bitter sarcasm. I'm a little edgey today but i've already used my quota of anger. =). Thanks for the advice.
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TL
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It would make sense that game rights would be wrapped up in the movie deal.
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Fuzz
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Tom,
Thanks for the heads up. I'm going to try posting in the other forum just to see what i can do. And you hit the nail on the head actually. =).

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Fuzz
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quote:
Originally posted by TL:
It would make sense that game rights would be wrapped up in the movie deal.

Gee i hope this isn't the case. *crosses fingers*
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TomDavidson
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It is absolutely the case. [Smile]

It should also be noted that Card's son is a professional game developer. *grin*

There've actually been several threads on this forum about how to do a good Battle Room mod -- but I'm almost certain that the game rights are now owned by Warner Bros.

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Fuzz
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Rats. I'm actually a developer myself who's quite a big fan. Knowing that his son is a developer does put my mind at ease somewhat. At least it wont get all munged up by a big studio. Even so, i'm very dissappointed that these rights are owned by WB. I guess i'll just have to re-think this whole thing.
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TL
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What was your concept for the game, Fuzz? I'll tell you the game I'm dying to play. I want an FPS battle-room simulator. It would be styled roughly like UT99, with great speed and awesome physics. Tons of maps (battle room configurations), and of course two armies. Every soldier in every army is an actual player at home, playing the game FPS style.

You have about 30 seconds before each game where your whole team is in a room, waiting for the gate to open and the light to go on; during this time you could freeze each other's legs, etc.

Teams could be as organized or disorganized as the players playing: ie they could be divided into toons, or they could just have a bunch of people running around crazily.

Literally an unlimited number of strategies could be applied to such a game. Certainly people would get online and organize "armies" and play each other on organized competitive ladders.

Oh man, I would love that game.

So much.

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Fuzz
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Actually this is pretty much what it is. I'm looking to mod the game half-life 2 which is primarily PC. So far i have a freezing system of sorts down. The weapons will be those used in the book (just the blaster). The wire that they use to assist in movement may be either obtained in the level by a powerup, or maybe a skill-based addon. I'm also trying to think of a way you can create a server environment to facilitate training and practice. So, for example, you could create formation practice and have X amount of people in the room watching a ghost image of what the formation is supposed to look/act like then they can practice it. Not sure how it'll work out but i have 2 other Ender fans helping me out if I decide to do it.
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TL
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Most games are too slow! Back in the days of UT99 I used to play at 155 speed (55% faster than normal) and no game has been able to match the lightning intensity of that experience.

An Ender's Game Battle Room Game should be FAST.

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Fuzz
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This is true and i never thought about this. I'm off on my lunch break, i have some other ideas but i can't type fast enough because my coworkers want to goto lunch....
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Fuzz
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TL:
Did you ever play the Corkscrew mod for Q3 arena?

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Puppy
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Wish I could send you the two design documents I wrote [Smile]
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Fuzz
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You can, i have my email address allowed for members i belive.
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breyerchic04
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I'm guessing he means he's not allowed. He is OSC's son (also known as a rat named dog)
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KarlEd
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To clarify, she means his other name on this forum is "A Rat Named Dog". [Wink]
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Puppy
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Yeah, I meant that the documents weren't written for public consumption [Smile] My real point was, yeah, I've thought this whole thing through a million times, and it would rock, if Warner would get their butts in gear and license the thing [Smile]
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Fuzz
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Ho hum, that'd be pretty sweet. Now, i don't quite know how copyright/trademark law works. But if a work is influenced from another but doesn't carry the name, would it still infringe? Obviously it depends how close it comes to the original ideas, but does anyone have a clue where that line is?
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Kwea
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[ROFL]


Did I read that? Are you asking, even in jest, OSC's son how to sidestep his father's copywrite righs so that you can make you game based on his works, without permissions?


My first guess would have been to not mention it here at all, let alone ask in a thread where his son is posting... and not to put it in writing under any circumstances.

[Big Grin]

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Sid Meier
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wait... what happens if its non profit? If you aren't actually selling the mod for money do Copyright laws still effect? Would it be possible to actually do it but for say a select group of Hatrackers? [Wink]
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dkw
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Copyright laws apply whether you charge for it or not.
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TomDavidson
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quote:

Obviously it depends how close it comes to the original ideas, but does anyone have a clue where that line is?

I'd imagine that you could safely do a zero-gee squad-based battle game without infringing. Adding "freeze guns" pushes it closer, but even that's probably kosher. Making the players children would, IMO, tip it over the line. Any mention of a "Battle Room" or "Battle School" or the like would be verboten, of course.
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Fuzz
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:

Obviously it depends how close it comes to the original ideas, but does anyone have a clue where that line is?

I'd imagine that you could safely do a zero-gee squad-based battle game without infringing. Adding "freeze guns" pushes it closer, but even that's probably kosher. Making the players children would, IMO, tip it over the line. Any mention of a "Battle Room" or "Battle School" or the like would be verboten, of course.
That's about what i was thinking....time to ponder more i suppose.
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Fuzz
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quote:
Originally posted by Kwea:
[ROFL]


Did I read that? Are you asking, even in jest, OSC's son how to sidestep his father's copywrite righs so that you can make you game based on his works, without permissions?


My first guess would have been to not mention it here at all, let alone ask in a thread where his son is posting... and not to put it in writing under any circumstances.

[Big Grin]

Kwea,

Someone else seems to own the copyrights to the game. Also, i'd rather ask here and get shot down then to have a piece of software 75% written and in a beta stage before i get a nastygram for a legal dept somewhere stating i have to cease and desist.

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Dagonee
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quote:
Obviously it depends how close it comes to the original ideas, but does anyone have a clue where that line is?
No one knows were that line is until the lawsuit is settled. [Smile] here is a decent summary of the concept involved:

quote:
>
> How about a hypothetical with a slightly different set of facts.
> Let's say that I write a novel about a group of travelors stuck on a
> train somewhere. To pass the time, the passengers share some important
> background story about themselves. And amongst the many [tales] related
> is Nabokov's Lolita telling the story from her perspective. And for
> this hypo. let's say that her story amounted to a cameo appearence in
> the book, say ~20 pages out of a 400 page novel, and only one of eight
> or ten stories told.

This sounds like a hypo based on Learned Hand's "levels of abstraction"
analysis. He posited that with any given work, one could tell the same
story at increasing levels of abstraction (generality), until one ended
up with only a sentence describing the basic outline of the novel.
Copying at the most concrete level (literal copying of text) was clearly
infringement, and copying at the highest level of abstraction was
clearly copying only the idea and not expression. The trick is to find
the dividing line in the middle. Here, Hand is less helpful, since he
says only that there must be a line, and that the inquiry is inherently
fact-specific.

In short, if you have a room where people are in zero-g and they get immobilized when shot, you might be fine. But then again, you might not.

Dagonee

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