posted
In the wake of Katrina, my husband and I started talking about what we would do if we had to evacuate our city on short notice.
Here is what we came up with.
At first we figured it wouldn't cause us too much trouble. We know from experience that we can pull together food and gear for a 3 day camping trip in about 30 minutes. It probably wouldn't take much longer to throw in some extra canned food and rice to stretch it to a week. We are experience outdoors people and are confident that we could find some spot out of direct harms way to pitch a tent and wait out a week of crisis.
Now here is where the complications kick in. My husband has a disabled sister (SIL) who lives near us. No one else in the family lives within 700 miles, so we would be responsible for her. She is in a wheel chair and on oxygen. In addition, she takes more medications than I can count. Depending on the time of month, she might have anywhere between 1 and 24 hours of oxygen in her portable cylinders. This means that we would have to take her oxygen concentrating unit and hope we could find a place to plug it in before her portable oxygen ran out.
Our car is small. We couldn't fit the oxygen concentrator, the wheel chair and the three of us in the car. We might be able to put the wheel chair and the rest of our gear on the roof rack -- that's unclear and would take additional time.
Because of the SIL disabilities, we would have to be able to find somewhere to stay where we had electrical power to run the oxygen concentrator. Because we don't have any relatives in the region (except the members of my family who live in Salt Lake and would also be evacuating), we would likely have to stay in a hotel. Emergency Red Cross shelters probably wouldn't have the facilities necessary for my SIL. With an entire city being evacuated, we might have to go a very long way to find a hotel with vacancies. If we were confident we would be going back to jobs and a home in a few days, we could handle the expenses of travel and hotels. If we couldn't go home to our jobs in a few days, it would become a big financial problem just to keep SIL living.
Then we get to my problem. I have Celiac disease, which means I can't eat anything containing wheat, rye or barley. This means that I probably couldn't eat emergency rations brought by the Red Cross or other aid groups. I would be pretty much fully dependent on the food I could bring myself. If the crisis last more that a few days, I'd be going hungry.
So how about you. What if you had to evacuate? Where would you go and how would you live until you could go back to home and work? What things in your health and your family life would complicate the situation?
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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This worries me because I have a rabbit. I cannot leave him behind, I just couldn't... He'd have to go with me and some of his food and stuff... and my guitar... and a few supplies. Perhaps I need a kit to be prepared just in case... And a first aid kit.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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From a sister and a wheelchair to a rabbit and a guitar. I guess we all have different responsibilities.
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Somehow, even though we dearly love our pets, they'd be down the list a bit behind family members and supplies for the baby.
We can pack for an extended stay in a matter of an hour or less. Add another hour for packing canned goods.
Then it's simply heading west back home to the mountains while trying to avoid I-40. On all of our planning, the Interstate is the big catch. If we can get out of Greensboro and past Winston-Salem, it's clear sailing for the most part.
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I have a cousin who lives two miles down the road who would certainly help me evacuate if she could, but her family is out of town frequently -- and most of the few people I know who live near me also don't drive.
I suppose I'd hitch-hike. The kindness of strangers has helped me a lot in the past, but I'm not sure how I feel about trusting my life to it.
Posts: 650 | Registered: Mar 2005
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The Hubby & I have had a plan since 9/11 but it will take longer to leave now with a baby. Once we get away from the Interstate we can take backroads to the boat and sail out into the bay if we need to fo awhile.
Posts: 601 | Registered: Sep 2002
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If you were threatened by a storm rather than terrorists, you would not want to head for the boat. You should consider what you would do if the boat were destroyed in a storm.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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If you lived in a hurricane prone area, at least in the US, you would start getting instructions from the start of hurricane season as to how to prepare for a storm, when to evacuate, where to go, and how to get there, what to do if you have special needs, don't have transportation, and so forth. These instructions are publicized on radio, tv, in the newspapers, and by way of local governmental notices.
Here is south Florida, we are all supposed to be prepared for the possibility of a storm from the beginning of hurricane season till the end - which means we should all have extra prepared goods, water (or containers to fill before the storm), hurricane shutters or plywood, and plans as to where we will go if we must evacuate, and how we will get there. It is also a good idea to have important personal papers set aside in a water proof envelope or container to take with you when you evacuate.
Of course, it is obvious from what happens before every storm that many ignore these many public service warnings and instructions till we are actually under a storm watch.
But the point is, there is no excuse not to be prepared if you live in an area like south Florida or the Gulf coast, where storms are likely to hit.
We have had to evacuate in the past, and no doubt will have to in the future
Posts: 5771 | Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Our car is small. We couldn't fit the oxygen concentrator, the wheel chair and the three of us in the car. We might be able to put the wheel chair and the rest of our gear on the roof rack -- that's unclear and would take additional time.
Get an SUV.
-o-
Been there, done that. We took the girls, my father, and the dogs, some random clothes, dog food, a DC fridge for insulin, and the wedding photo album. We went to the inlaws' house. We probably wouldn't do this again. (Unless we had to spend a long time there with loss of income.)
With all this "I could be gone in an hour" stuff, are you guys taking into account boarding your windows? What about the traffic?
I took the day off from work when Ivan came, and spent all day boarding, in which time I completed only the downstairs openings. I then piled mattresses and bookcases and stuff against the upstairs windows, and was ready to leave by 5pm. I then drove all night. It took a good 9 hours just to make it to Georgia, and close to 24 to make it to Hendersonville, NC (from Orlando FL--usually more like a 10-12 hour drive). Physical labor for 8 hours followed by a 24 hour drive without even the luxury of a shower--talk about a new definition of exhaustion!
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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I'd like to get kits together, including food, so what we can grab the Jeep and go mobile for at least a week unsupported. Right now it's just the two of us.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I have a car, but it wouldn't do me much good, since there's nowhere to go...
I live at a fairly high elevation, so I would probably be all right in my home in a hurricane or tsunami. I suspect I would probably have people from down in the valley staying with me, however. I could probably take in 4 people fairly comfortably for a couple of days, and more if I had to. I have some bottled water, but I buy more every week. I also have some food on hand, but certainly need to get more. I have candles, first aid supplies, a propane stove, plenty of boardgames and activities for children to keep them occupied.
The situation in the Gulf Coast has certainly made me assess my own preparedness... I tend to get complacent.
Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2001
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at least i am on the third floor... that is good. and there are people from work with cars. they seem to like me enough not to leave me and Bernie stranded.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I'm trying to imagine something that might necessitate the evacuation of Madison, WI, and all I can come up with is a brat shortage.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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In south central Indiana, probably the only thing that might necessitate evacuation would be a VERY serious flood...and even then, it probably wouldn't reach where I live, since it's high ground relative to most of the rest of the area.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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Now, we have had a tornado pass less than a mile from my house. That was pretty scary.
Maybe if it were a massive hurricane-sized super-tornado or something...
Still, I think we'd probably just hide in our interior bathroom (our current tornado shelter). Not like there'd be the kind of flooding there was with Katrina.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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Since it would take a widespread disaster to necessitate the evacuation of Kansas City, I'm pretty sure the plans would be made on the fly.
I have a bag of stuff I can grab in the tornado rush. I can think of only a few other disasters, and they're so statistically unlikely or extreme, they're hardly worth planning for.
Posts: 1813 | Registered: Apr 2001
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The only kind of evacuation order I could think of for where I am is if there were some sort of massive blizzard coming through. In that case, I would be screwed because I don't have a car. I could, however, get in contact with my grandparents who live about 45 minutes away. They do have this tendency to go to Florida in the winter though.
Posts: 2867 | Registered: May 2005
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The only concievable natural disaster I can imagine hitting Toronto is an epidemic, in which case the city would probably be closed- so instead of evacuation it would be the opposite. In a way, that's scarier. I'd probably go out once, buy food, then stay largely in my room.
If I was going to evacuate, hypothetically speaking (for that rapid glacier or whatnot), I'd take my backup DVD I always keep available, a waterbottle, whatever portable food I had lying about, my purse and camera, a sweater, my umbrella, my jacket (or coat and things, if it was winter), my tin opener and a spoon.
I'd be walking, probably with friends, unless more fortunate people decided to give carless students a ride out. I'd be heading for a shelter, if I wasn't with friends, because I don't have family within 400 kilometres.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I've had to evacuate for fires. Never lost a home, but I did have the hill behind my apartments get intentionally lit up in a controlled fire as part of the "Old Fire" effort.
Posts: 1894 | Registered: Aug 2000
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My family has evacuated quite a few times since moving to Louisiana.
The hotels are always a big problem. There isn't a room free for hundreds of miles once a hurricane is predicted for nearby landfall.
The next problem is getting gas. Long lines and ridiculous demand can dry out a station in less than a day.
Then there's the traffic. During Dennis, it took my parents 10+ hours to drive the usual 2 hour drive to Lafayette. And they had left in advance and on a road utilizing contraflow.
Because I'm in NW Louisiana for school, I've never had to evacuate but if need be, my roommate has family 2 hours away and I have family friends 2 hours away in the opposite direction. It'd be a matter of meeting up with people and carpooling out of town. Then just drive until we find an available hotel room.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Xavier and I would be goners. We are totally unprepared for any sort of disaster. Heck, we only have candles and matches because I have an addiction to PartyLite.
We never have food in the house due to little storage space and also because we eat out many times a week.
Camping supplies? Yeah, right. A few blankets and an air mattress. Thankfully my two very compact dogs would be easy to take anywhere with little problems.
Phil has no family in the area but that isn't the case for me. Small is not a word commonly used to describe a Hispanic family.
I only have a few small personal possessions I'd prefer not to leave to looters. Phil would probably only take the clothes on his back.
Posts: 2064 | Registered: Dec 2003
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I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately - for obvious reasons. We live in a mobile home with an electric stove. If the power goes out, not only are we without lights and heat, but we can't cook, either. We live at the top of a hill, so there's no worry about flooding (if the Des Moines River floods 100 feet or more, then we've got bigger problems).
We live paycheck to, well, a couple days before paycheck, usually. We don't have a first aid kit, our flashlights' batteries are nearly dead, and we've really got no food storage.
If we did have to leave our home quickly, we'd have a hard time locating the things I wouldn't want to leave behind (genealogy, family photos and documents), and we really wouldn't know where to go.
We've got to make some changes.
Posts: 2034 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I have relatives in Chicago, Cleveland, and Indianapolis and my parents are in Texas so I'd have several places to run to. My cat would be problematic but I would definitely try my best to take him along.
Since I am a single physician, though, I think I'd be more likely to be stuck locally here at the hospital in most evacuation type emergencies, tearfully leaving my cat here at home to fend for himself and possibly losing everything but the clothes on my back. I can't think of anything I'd particularly grab last minute other than my wallet, phone, and address book although I'm sure I could come up with some ideas if I had to. My list of website codes and financial documents. Some antibiotics.
After 9/11 I had fears lasting several weeks that the country would fall apart with further attacks or nuclear war with loss of commnunications or easy travel between states and I pictured myself as staying put for job reasons and losing track of my whole family. Every time I talked to my parents back in 2001 I wondered if it would be our last talk together.
I also usually plan on filling both bathtubs with water if I feel the community is threatened, and I really should buy some bottled water and have more canned goods on hand just in case of emergencies.
Posts: 1014 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Absolutely, positively NOT. Leaving. The. Dog. I would have gotten stuck in a disaster area because I would not leave my puppy. My boyfriend thinks I'm crazy.
Posts: 870 | Registered: Mar 2005
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"The City of New York just put up a whole set of web pages about what to do if a major hurricane approaches the area...A category 4 or 5 landfall near Manhattan is almost impossible, due to the shape of the New York/New Jersey coastline and the relatively low water temperature."
Nearly happened with the LongIslandExpress. And that category3 was before global warming had much affect on sea surface temperatures. The devastation making it the 7th most destructive hurricane to hit the US -- when LongIsland was still mostly rural -- is probably the reason that NYC emergency planners decided it was important to set up that hurricane webpage.
"I'm trying to think of what would cause an evacuation order for Manchester, NH."
Somehow I would take little comfort in being only ~33miles from the ocean in the event of a major hurricane. Katrina's hurricane force winds reached over a hundred miles from the storm's eyewall. The LongIslandExpress "had rapidly undergone transformation to an extratropical low, but still retained tremendous energy, with high winds mowing down forests throughout the north country, knocking down part of...the Cog Railway on Mount Washington, New Hampshire, where winds gusted to 163 mph... ...Flooding was extensive in New Hampshire, causing a major fire in Peterborough."
posted
Then of course, everyone near the Atlantic Coast would be affected by the Attack of the Killer Canaries. A 165foot/50metre or larger tsunami would reach pret' far inland.
Fortunately, volcanic eruptions are fairly predictable: eg the evacuation of the Mt.St.Helens region. Unfortunately, the prediction time is rather short. Moving ~100million people inland in a couple or few days -- if even that much -- would definitely cause havoc on the transportation systems, and emergency relief systems.
Then think about Katrina, and about whether politicians and bureaucrats would have the nerve to order an evacuation about an event which might happen based on the word of mere scientists-working-at-CumbreVieja. Or do they choose to believe some other scientists-who-aren't-specialists-on-CumbreVieja that the volcano wall won't collapse.
Remember the economy will be severely affected if there is an evacuation order. And that a lot of voters are gonna be mighty torqued if they evacuate, and there isn't a tsunami; especially if there is looting by those who couldn't afford to evacuate. Hyper-unfortunately, tsunamis travel over open ocean at about the speed of a commericial jetliner, 555milesperhour/895kilometresperhour. Which means that if the politicians and bureaucrats wait until the CumbreVieja wall collapse before issuing a warning, there will be only 6hours12minutes to evacuate NewYorkCity, 7hours12minutes to evacuate Miami, Atlanta has about 7hours22minutes, and the rest of America's eastern coastline in between. An hour or two more because the tsunami will slow down as it crosses over the shallower waters of the continental shelf. Probably to less than 200mph/320kph. Too lazy to calculate a more exact number.
Not that the hour or two of extra time will matter much to Miami, or the rest of Florida. A large portion, possibly most of the land is under 165feet/50metres above sealevel. And wanna bet on the traffic jams in NewYork when their government tells them "Guess what guys? You're gonna be hit by a 200mph 15story-tall wall of water unless you get outta there."
With only 7to9hours to count on, I'd start jogging, or walking. Probably a LOT faster than than trying to go in a car. Probably even faster than bicycling through the snarled roads and people trying to mug ya for your bike.
posted
I'd probably toss my computer (geek) and whatever else I needed in my little car. Including any family members or their kids. Then we'd start off on a huge caravan to somewhere, probably north unless the disaster is also in position to affect that direction, then I'd suggest somewhere east, as going from Utah through Nevada isn't a good idea if there were a shortage on anything like gasoline, or money. Not to mention going further inland would sound like a good idea, unless it had something to do with the fault line around the Rockies.
I think it's high time I learn how to make my own generator. I know the basics, just not how to be extremely effective. This would be fine for the most part, because between me and some of the people that have talked about such a thing we could make such an evacuation work. I have at least 4-6 friends I will gather with, along with our families in the area. When I said caravan, that's what I meant. Posts: 1132 | Registered: Jul 2002
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I also don't know of a reason why I'd need to evacuate - except for in a case of an accident at the chemical weapons depot and we're only at the very, very far fringe of the evacuation zone and all I'd need to do is grab everyone and head to my brother's house across town.
Our disater plans are tornado based, and we have a basement room with no windows that is underground on three sides, where we go if there is tornado threats.
We're not in a flood plain and a few years ago we had a 100 year flood in this area of Alabama, the roads were flooded so fast they couldn't get the kids home from school until the water went down, so my oldest was stuck at school until 6:00 pm that night. It was the worst flood the area had ever had on record and yet the roads cleared by six and we never got one drop of water in the house. I think we're safe from flood. Pretty safe from hurricanes, we're about 200 miles from the coast, all we have to worry about is tornadoes (which is where hurricanes can affect us, like what happened in GA from Katrina)
Living in tornado country, we know what to do and how to handle those, so I feel pretty good.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Since I am a single physician, though, I think I'd be more likely to be stuck locally here at the hospital in most evacuation type emergencies, tearfully leaving my cat here at home to fend for himself and possibly losing everything but the clothes on my back.
You don't have to be single for this to happen. My married friend was at the hospital in New Orleans until last Saturday, and he got out with the following: (1) the scrubs he was wearing, and (2) his wallet. Not even time to grab the bag he'd packed from his (now flooded) car.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
While an earthquake is guaranteed to strike Utah eventually, I think the only type of disaster in which evacuation would be logical would be an accident at the chemical weapons plant to the west.
What amazes me is that there wasn't much discussion of the 400k or whatever who did evacuate from N.O. having problems with traffic. That is what I see as the main problem for a Salt Lake Valley evacuation. We have one road going east and west and two roads going north and south (only one of which is a freeway). Given the nature of any disaster, one to two of those routes is going to not make any sense.
I don't know how bad things could get if earthquakes ruptured the reservoirs in the mountain passes. That could flood pretty massive amounts of people out, it would be pretty instantaneous devastation and not the sort of thing that we could really evacuate to deal with.
But since most of our roads in and out would be effectively destroyed in such a scenario, and the pattern of flooding may cut the city into east/west bands which is the perpendicular to the normal socioeconomic stratification. Also, the rich people who live on high ground are more likely to have their own places shacken apart by the quake, while the lower lands will have more tendency to flooding. I guess if enough water came down there could be flooding in the northern communities where people live closer to the lake. It is also possible that Utah Lake could start leaking down along the Jordan, popping bridges as it went. We don't have any very serious bridges over the Jordan, except for the freeways, maybe. I haven't really noticed them.
There is potential for isolated areas, though. Mormons are instructed to keep a year's supply. Apparently only half the valley's population is Mormon, and of those I would guess only about a third have such a supply though another third probably have some kind of 72 hour kit.
If an evacuation of Salt Lake were ordered, there would be all kinds of deliberate non-compliance. Even in the event of poisoned gas, people would duct tape themselves into their basements with plastic sheeting and try to wait it out.
Anyone remember that thread by skillery a while back where he talked about all the hobbies he'd gotten into in the name of emergency preparedness? Ammo reloading and HAM radio stood out to me as the outliers, like stuff even my in-laws don't do. And I thought my in-laws were pretty out of control.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote: I'm trying to think of what would cause an evacuation order for Manchester, NH.
Almost anywhere in the United States you could be subject to an evacuation due to chemicals -- a train de-railment, a plant exploding, a semi-truck overturning with a hazardous material cloud coming your way, etc.
We recently had a train derailment in a local city, and the tanks of some hazardous chemical were leaking. Many people had to be evacuated for several days until everything dissapated and they got it cleaned up.
Granted -- they didn't have to go that FAR -- they could evacuate to a motel on the opposite side of town, etc. However, these are some of the scenarios you could think about..
posted
How about this question - should you evacuate?
What is your job as a responsible citizen? If there's a mandatory evac order, should everybody follow it? Should they be forced to follow it if they don't want to?
And if you ignore a mandatory warning and stay behind, how many rescuers and first responders should we risk to come rescue you or how many resources should we devote to recovering your body?
One of the things that really frustrated and upset my husband when he spent a week in Gulfport was the amount of resources devoted to rescuing the living and recovering the dead - all of whom shouldn't have been there. The reason it's frustrating is because there are so many things they could have been doing to help the survivors, they could have been clearing roads and helping power trucks and gas and water service vehicles get in so that the rebuilding process can start. Instead they had to block entire streets and instead of using a bulldozer to clear the way for a power truck they had to remove rubble piece by piece because someone that didn't evacuate died and was buried in 20 feet of rubble that used to be their house.
Now we know there are true tragedies, people who couldn't evacuate due to medical or financial circumstances and I feel for them, but I'm talking about the people who have the resources and yet choose to remain. My mother in law was one. Wes talked to dozens or maybe hundreds more. Most of them said they stayed to protect their property from looters.
Myself, I'm not advocating forced evacuations at gunpoint. I do think at some point, if a person decides to stay behind they should have the right to stay behind. And many had a point, if they hadn't stayed their property most likely would have been looted, those that had any property left that is.
But, I also think at some point you've got to turn away from the recovery of the dead and put your resources where they'll help the living. And so there is a real question - how much should the govt go out of its way to help you or to recover your body if you choose to remain in a mandatory evacuation area? And do you, personally, think that you should have to follow mandatory evacuations or do you think there should be any power of law behind the order? Should they be really mandatory - or are they still pretty much just suggestions?
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Things, by and large, can be replaced. People can't.
Though, if I had a pet, I'd have a very, very hard time leaving him. Like, when my dog was still alive, I wouldn't have been able to leave him behind. Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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and despite everyone blasting the federal levels and FEMA (which is NOT a first-response agency) for the current New Orleans situation; the evacuation plan that belonged to local and state agencies in Louisiana was not followed at all.
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You don't get a warning for earthquakes and any earthquake that happened that was nasty enough to make us evacuate would also destroy the roads so we couldn't.
We don't get hurricanes or tornados here.
There's only two things I can think of that would make us evacuate. A serious chemical spill (spills happen all the time here) or a terrorist threat.
If a spill happens, no biggie, we find a hotel outside the affected area and hole up till it blows away.
If a serious, Nuclear/Chemical/Biological terrorist threat happens we're doomed.
The south bay is surrounded by the Santa Cruz Mountains and there are very few ways over them. There are almost a million people in San Jose alone. There's no way a handful of spindly 2 lane roads will get us out in time.
We could drive up the east shore of the bay and try to get out on 80, but that will be packed with the east bay evacuees. And 80 will also have the San Francisco evacuees.
posted
Something I've been thinking about with the stories about the "toxic soup" leftover in New Orleans = are folks in flood areas warned/encouraged to try to keep household chemicals from getting spilled in a flood?
I'm not sure how much could be done in an emergency. I suppose the ideal would be to encourage folks to not have extra chemicals sitting around that they don't need -- have more hazardous materials collection days to collect those old containers of insecticide, paint, etc. Beyond that, you could encourage folks to have sealable buckets + plastic containers ready that could be used to put chemicals in. And for people who have a 2nd floor in their house, ask them to move chemicals to the top floor/attic of their house before they leave...
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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