posted
As some of you know, I'm getting married in September this year.
I'm simply starting a thread to ask the married couples out there what some of the unforseen challenges are for newlyweds. I know money is a big issue, but I think I might have that taken care of, since I just got a job that can acutally pay my expenses with a reasonably good sized surplus compared to last job.
Another thing I'm worried about is children. I do know that I want children eventually, but not anytime soon, since I'm only 21. The problem is, my fiancee seems to want children sooner rather than later. Is it unhealthy for a marriage if babies are brought into the picture a little earlier than what's conventional?
I'm not creating this thread because I'm afraid, but more because I just want to have a few less worries later in life.
posted
Stay out of debt or keep debt as small as possible. Go into debt only for things like a mortgage or education if possible. Debt is difficult to get rid of once you have it.
Save as much as you can, no matter how much you want that (fill in the blank).
Understand that you will want to kill each other sometimes. That's normal, and happens no matter how in love you are. Just don't act on it.
Understand that what seems obvious to you isn't obvious to her at all, and vice versa. You WILL have misunderstandings. The question is, how will you deal with them?
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Congrats! I am getting married in May of this year. I will be interested to see what people have to say in this thread. How soon does your fiance want kids?
Posts: 416 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Congratulations! For financial planning, make sure you understand net worth. It is the benchmark* that allows you to determine the effects particular decisions will have on your finances. Once you understand the effects, you weigh those effects according to your own value system.
quidscribis's admonition on debt is a good one. The net worth calculation helps you see the effects of debt on your finances.
And remember, "if it's on your ass it's not an asset." Don't fall into the trap of thinking a car or clothes are "investments." Paying more for a suit that will last longer might be a good financial decision, but it's not an investment.
You have a powerful asset right now - time. With time, you can save very efficiently for your retirement. Maximize your retirement savings if at all possible, and also save money outside retirement accounts. Have these savings deducted automatically from each paycheck if you can.
Savings priorities:
0.) 3 month emergency fund - basically, 6 times your monthly take home pay. It should be kept in liquid form - a savings or money market account with no withdrawal restrictions or penalties. It allows you to face unexpected events without going into debt immediately.
1.) Paying off non-mortgage debt. Aggressively pay off debt ahead of schedule if you can. Once monthly payments are gone, you will have the equivalent of a raise.
2.) Another 3 months for the emergency fund.
3.) Retirement. Starting at 21, you have an enormouos advantage and you should take advantage of it. This should be in low-espense mutual funds - index funds are fine. You need to do some reading before doing this, but it's not hard. If your employer matches contributions, then you should at minimum make sure you have enough withheld to earn the entire match. It's free money.
4.) House down payment. A mortgage is the only access to leveraged capital most people get. Owning a house is also a good way to shield your family from rental fluctuations. Owning a home is also one of the best ways to continuously build net worth and security. When calculating the cost of owning a home, be sure to include both the savings (such as tax deductions) and the extra expenses (maintenance, etc.).
5.) Other savings (college, cars, etc.) based on your own priorities. If you can avoid using debt for anything except mortgage and can increase your net worth most months (emergencies will occur), you will be on your way to financial security.
If you are contributing to retirement and making a mortgage payment each month, your net worth will grow as long as you accumulate no new debt. And when something occurs so that you are not increasing net worth for a period of time, you can plan for it and feel confident that you will not live beyond your means on a permanent basis.
*When I say benchmark, I do not mean accumulating higher net worth is the only or even primary goal of finances, and certainly it's not the only goal of a marriage. It's simply a necessary piece of information if you want to truly evaluate if a given expenditure is worth what it will actually cost you.
As to mechanics, I highly recommend Quicken or Money, plus lots of spreadsheets. Both spouses need to be involved in the finances and both need to agree on priorities. Also, each should have some money that they are not accountable to the other for (assuming you can afford it).
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Be prepared to mentally freak out when you find yourself doing some particular thing or involved in some particular situation that reminds you of your parents.
Relax. It isn't bad universe mojo, and you're not necessary being turned into your mom (or dad) without your knowledge. Life just tends to be repetitive, and there are only so many basic elements to make up a day. Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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quote:Be prepared to mentally freak out when you find yourself doing some particular thing or involved in some particular situation that reminds you of your parents.
Waaaah! But I didn't want to act like them in any way, shape, or form, so of course I freaked out. I still do, a little. Waaaah!
So yeah, CT is correct.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Mind you, I loved my parents. I think (and thought) that they were two of the greatest people who ever lived.
But suddenly, with me driving down the interstate and hunched over the wheel, and my husband fiddling with my purse on the seat between us and moving it to the floor, the seat, then back to the floor, and me pulling over because I couldn't deal with the distraction because I was freakin' driving on the interstate ... and flashing back to that morning, when (just because of the way the day had gone, and for the first time ever) I was ironing his shirts, and ... aaaauuuugggh!
I had a sudden urge to smoke a doobie and hang my panties from the car antenna, two things which I'd never done before, but which I was pretty sure had never, ever, ever been done by my mom.
You never know, though. After I'd been married awhile, she loosened up and told some stories. *grin
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Most of your advice so far is about money and you specifically asked about children. The thing you need to know is right now your life is your own. You both can basically do whatever you want and are only accountable to yourselves. Once you have a child, the life you know is over. Your child is now your life and you no longer have the kind of freedom you once knew. I'm not saying that is a bad thing if you are ready and prepared for it but it can be a little overwhelming especially for a new marriage and for someone as young as you are. My advice is to wait a while to have children; enjoy each other, get out of school, take some vacations, stay out of debt. Then have babies. Good luck and God bless!
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Jul 2005
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The most common question asked by people over 40 at the wedding reception is, "And when do you expect to be having children?"
Children sooner or later is hard to compare. Nobody's really done both. We did later, while my brothers did sooner. We have all turned out mostly OK.
Do not expect the sex to be skyrockets and earth shaking every time. (This came from a Catholic Marriage course we took before our wedding. I thought it was silly at the time, but its been true.)
With sex, as with everything in a marriage, don't keep score. This is a long view game where things usually work out pretty much even in the end. Time and stress put into keeping score only makes everyone grumpy.
There is an old sexist saying that men marry women expecting they will never change, and women marry men expecting to change them. Both are disappointed. The truth is that there is nothing you can do to stop the other person from changing in ways you do not want, or force them to change in ways you do. Be prepared to accept those changes.
Tell them every day how you feel. Don't bury your joy or your anger, you hopes or your fears. Spider Robinson said, "Joy shared is doubled. Saddness shared is halved." There should be no one better to share with than your spouse.
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quote:I have an elderly aunt who saved and scrimped on stuff all her life. Now at 83, she has a large nest egg, enough to last her until she's 103. Yet she still won't buy herself or anybody else much of anything, not even during the holidays. My aunt has been stuck in the saving mode for so long she can't spend. She can't be generous. Some might call her a miser. I think she's just scared. I don't want to be like her. My husband and I are good stewards of our money. I shouldn't be afraid to spend on a "want." We ended up buying a new van because we wanted certain features we couldn't find in a used one. Having bought one new vehicle, the sensible thing would have been to buy a used car for my husband. But as we looked at pre-owned cars for him, I decided I wanted my husband to have what he wanted. He's a good man who has been good to me. And you know what? The look of love (and shock) on my husband's face when I said, "Let's get you a new car too," was priceless.
posted
Long reply and possibly TMI. I don't want to hijack the thread but I don't know if my advice will make much sense without the background stuff.
Advice: Talk to her. And listen - actually LISTEN - when she talks to you.
<begin personal stuff> This was the major downfall of my marriage. The conversations we had after the first two years were primarily one-sided and hollow. He never learned as a child how to actually communicate with another person, and I was so caught up in everything that I didn't realize this until it was too late. We could chat for hours when we were dating and newly married, but they were fluff threads.
When we were married a little less than 3 years, I had what I now refer to as my "week from hell". I found out I was pregnant on Sunday, got fired on Monday, we moved to a new apartment on Wednesday, and I got into a car accident on Saturday while going back to return the keys to our old landlady. Talk about serious stress and unforeseen circumstances!
I went into a situational depression as a result, and it took the intervention of a former coworker who became a friend at some point to kick my butt into shape, get me out of the apartment (I literally went 6 weeks without the sun on my skin), got me involved in her church group just to get me doing something, and gave me a lead on a part-time job that developed into a full time position, then pseudo-mamagement and 5 years' duration.
And although I didn't know it at the time because his parents had withheld a lot of information from me, he was already believed to be ADD and depressed but not officially diagnosed and certainly not under treatment. So he completely withdrew from everything and everyone, which meant that he wasn't there for me when I needed him to be. And yes, for a while I wasn't there for him (lest anyone think I'm blaming all of our problems on him). Once I got on my feet again, I tried to get us back to where we had been emotionally, but I was unsuccessful. We still had our fluff chats, but he never talked to me about work issues or things that were happening at home while I was at work. And when I needed to talk about something that I was going through, he tuned me out and let me ramble without being heard. I know he couldn't have solved any of my problems, but if he was going to be so obvious about his inattention, I may as well have locked myself in the bathroom and talked to myself in the mirror.
So the more he wouldn't talk or listen to me, the more I retreated away from him. In a way, I had an emotional affair, because I went outside of the marriage to find someone - anyone - who would listen to me and give me feedback and so on that I needed to have and wasn't getting from him. It wasn't love, it wasn't lust, there wasn't anything sexual about it. In fact, I never saw this person face to face until a few months before the kids and I moved out on our own. But it was definitely a contributing factor.
I didn't find out about his true medical history and the suspicion of ADD and depression until my now 9 year old was being tested for possible special needs by the school district at age 5. The way I found out? One of the counselors involved in M's evaluation was also one of C's counselors 20 years ago. And when Mr. P. saw the last name on the file, he got curious. Once I was given this information, I went back to the MIL who finally acknowledged that yes, she's been diagnosed herself, the youngest son has been diagnosed as an adult, and the school recommended therapy for C as a child but she hadn't felt it necessary at the time. It's frustrating, because I might have been able to do things differently had I just known.
So now the kids and I are living in a nice apartment together, and we've been here for a little over 3 years. He's living with his parents the next town over. The kids see him every weekday because he's currently my babysitter in exchange for paying child support - because I can't afford an outside sitter on my salary alone. He doesn't have or want any additional visitation. We're still legally married because I haven't gotten the retainer fee together to hire an attorney to represent me in court. Because of the length of the marriage (12 years so far) and the existence of children, the county we live in requires that we be represented by counsel, go through family counseling and mediation to try and repair the marriage first, and then finally get an order of dissolution. Two year average. While I work in a law firm, none of my bosses specialize in domestic law and I wouldn't really want my bosses that involved in my personal life anyway. And the attorneys they've recommended to me are omigoodness expensive.
I don't know the word I want, but I think the fact that I currently make more than double what he does is an issue for him. And except for the first couple months of working again after having been fired, I've always made more than him. He grew up in a home where Dad was the sole breadwinner, and Mom stayed home with the kids fulltime. Both my parents worked, and each parent was responsible for different bills rather than keeping a joint account for all family expenses. (What I don't think he realizes is that I only make as much as I do because I'm willing to commute an hour a day each way to get into the Loop for my job. I've actually looked at similar positions in the suburbs so I could stay home in the mornings for bus pick-up and get home sooner at night, and I'd lose 30% or more of my gross income by doing so.)
He has made hollow attempts to reconcile. He'll tell me that he wants to get back together, we'll go out on one date, and when I later set terms for his return to the family home, he'll drop the ball entirely. I want him to be seen by a specialist to see if there really is a diagnosis and treatment required, and if so, I want him on treatment. I need him to be a responsible adult, and getting medical care is a part of that. I want him in therapy to learn how to relate to me and to the kids, and I'm completely willing to participate in any way the counselor thinks is appropriate. Personally I don't think my expectations are too high, and M's therapist agrees with my requirements. M's therapist is even willing to take him on as a patient, but he has to be the one to make the call and set up that initial appointment. I can't - and won't - do it for him.
I have NOT made an attempt to reconcile. I've discovered that I kind of like my life this way. The kids have adjusted to the current situation, and I don't want to screw with M's routines that she needs to stay in control. Sure, sometimes I miss having a warm body next to me at night. But I've gone 3 years without, and it hasn't killed me yet LOL. That might also be part of why I haven't hired an attorney, either. Why mess things up even more? (dont answer that!!! LOL)
posted
My husband was told by his dad when we married, "Remember, there are going to be days when she can't give her 50%, and you're going to have to give 100% instead." Let me amend this: if you have kids right away (while we wouldn't change it for the world), there are days when you are going to have to give 200%. Whether you just came home from a long day at work, or what. This is especially true if she has difficult pregnancies.
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posted
Whether you decide to have kids sooner or wait awhile will not make a huge difference in the odds of a successful marriage. What will make a huge difference is whether you sit down together and decide together when you will start trying to get pregnant and what you will do to prevent pregnancy until that time, what you will do if it happens before you planned/expected, and what you will do if you have problems conceiving.
Agreeing on all of these (but especially the first one) before the wedding is best. It doesn't mean you can't continue discussion and possibly change your plans at any point -- as long as you do it together.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Also: you cannot fathom the way having children will change your life, your relationship, and yourself, no matter how much you talk to people, no matter how much you read, no matter how much we tell you about it and how much you think you know, until you do. (Having a puppy, I hear, can come a little nearer than some things. But it's still not the same.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Whether you decide to have kids sooner or wait awhile will not make a huge difference in the odds of a successful marriage. What will make a huge difference is whether you sit down together and decide together when you will start trying to get pregnant and what you will do to prevent pregnancy until that time, what you will do if it happens before you planned/expected, and what you will do if you have problems conceiving. Agreeing on all of these (but especially the first one) before the wedding is best. It doesn't mean you can't continue discussion and possibly change your plans at any point -- as long as you do it together.
This is why I stuck to the financial stuff - I knew someone would come along and say what I wanted to about the children issue better than I could.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Addendum: When I say agree on when you will start trying to conceive, I don't mean you have to pick a date. But you do have to be more specific than "not yet" or "let's wait awhile." "Awhile" to one person might mean 6 months and to another person 5 years. The goal is to reduce mis-matched assumptions by communicating clearly.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Goody, depending on where you live, I could ask my dad if he knows anyone who could help you. He seems to be pretty good at finding good lawyers out-of-state.
Any marriage type advice I give should be taken with a grain of salt, since I've never even been in a long-term relationship myself, but my parents have now been married for twenty-two or twenty-three years, so I can tell you what I see with them.
First of all, what do you mean by sooner vs. later for children? My father had two teenage kids when he met my mom. They were married two years before they had me, and I'm pretty sure they agreed on the time frame (I know my mom was on birth control for the first two years, and she stopped taking it to have me, so there was definite planning). I think there was strain in his first marriage concerning children, but I'm not sure. I know that he had always wanted to have four kids, but I don't think his first wife really wanted them. When he married my mom, she was thirty-five, and he was forty-five. She'd never been married before. I don't know if two years is considered sooner or later for children, but I do think that it was good for them to get used to being married first, especially since my mother had never been married before.
I think the strongest part of their relationship is that they really, truly still appreciate each other. A year or two ago, my dad and I were driving somewhere, and he just went on and on about how great my mom is, how she's so smart, things like that. He brings her potted flowers because he knows she likes to garden.
I think the biggest improvement that they could have made was that they weren't very affectionate when I still lived at home. My mother slept upstairs in the master bedroom, and my dad slept on the couch almost every night. Looking back, this arrangement was probably because my mother stayed home between the time she had my brother until I turned maybe sixteen, and I know my dad always worked crazy hours. He'd come home at four in the morning, sleep until six, then get up and go back to work again. And he snored. So probably, the sleeping arrangement was so that my mom could get a good night's sleep. But to me as a child, well, I grew up wondering if my parents were going to get a divorce as soon as my brother and I left for college. As it turns out, they're closer now than ever.
posted
Pop and I made an agreement before we got married that we wouldn't even talk about having kids until we had been married for two years. We wanted to have time to get used to being married and living together first.
Posts: 399 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
While I don't think that having kids earlier than is conventional is harmful to a marriage (we certianly had kids earlier than is conventional) I agree that if you are going to do it, it should be because that is what you *want*. You should be committed to it in your heart of hearts--not just doing it to please your wife.
Definitely try to work this out with your fiance so that you both can be on the same page about it.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Well, Wes and I had agreed ahead of time that we would wait until both of us were finished with our degrees before we had children, and preferably until after we had purchased our own home. But, should neither of those things happen before I was 27, we would start then, because I was worried about fertility (I had already been diagnosed with endometriosis at the time).
Instead we got pregnant with Natalie 3 months after our wedding, when he was in school at night and working a day job that didn't have benefits and I was working a job I didn't really care for, but it was at the university and I could go to school for free while I was there. At least I did have insurance. (by the way I was on prescription birth control pills, but for some reason, they just didn't work.)
So the unexpected does happen. But your world and your life doesn't end if you have children early, I can tell you. Both Wes and I have gone on with our education though neither one is finished. Wes loves his job as a firefighter, and we did buy that home we wanted and we went on to have more children and Wes has been able to support us fairly comfortably without me working. Life is good. (yes, it's good even when you have cancer, maybe more so because you appreciate the things you have!)
dkw's advice is wonderful, I echo it - do talk about this ahead of time. But, as you can, even though my hubby and I talked about it and had what we thought was a sound plan, sometimes God has other ideas. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
You've gotten some really good advice. I will add one thing, and I can't really say it without explaining my situation.
I always knew I wanted to be a mom. We married while hubby was still in school, and we decided to wait for him to finish before having kids, because I wanted to stay home with them, and I didn't want him trying to work and go to school at the same time and never have time with the family. It was a good move for us, because it turns out that's still what I value most - his participation with the family, the time we all have together.
When he finished school, suddenly I had no more reasons to put it off. I was scared to death, and still didn't really feel ready. But I knew I'd always wanted kids and I didn't think I was going to feel any "readier" just waiting - I was afraid I'd never feel ready. I knew that if I was ever going to be a mom, I needed to go ahead and take that "leap of faith" and trust that I could do it (or learn how to do it!). I was glad we had a few years together before we had kids, but I'm glad we didn't wait until I felt "ready", because I'm afraid I'd still be waiting.
So my point is, it's important to have a plan for how you're going to get ready, but don't wait until you're not scared, because that may never come. And don't put it off because you don't feel like you know how to be a parent yet ... it's definitely a case of on-the-job training.
One more thing to keep in mind (that is highly unpopular to talk about) is that a women's fertility rate starts to go down as early as her late 20's. Even though more and more people are waiting much longer to have children, you wouldn't want to ignore the possibility that it may be more difficult to do later.
(I don't mean to imply there are no good reasons to wait ... waiting for marriage is always a good thing, waiting to grow into your marriage and get used to being married for a few years might be a good thing, waiting to be done with school or have at least a stable job might be a good thing ... but just waiting until you feel "ready" to be a parent may never happen! For me, it was something I had to just take a deep breath, trust that millions of other adults had survived before, and jump into.)
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
That's why I didn't give advice on kidlets - I'm in no position to.
It's true that you'll probably get a lot of questions about kids - when are you going to have them, how many, all that jazz. I don't feel like giving answers to everyone - it's none of their business - so I give one answer and one answer only. It's up to God. That may or may not be a suitable answer depending on your religious beliefs or lack thereof. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
quid, I'd imagine that's an excellent answer in the society you find yourself in.
I like that one. And it's true! Whether you use birth control or try to get pregnant as soon as you're married, there are things completely out of your control about it.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Unfortunately, here, people still go on and on and on asking even more questions, despite me answering with only that one phrase. "Don't you want children?" "I'll pray for you to have twins by Christmas." So, because they've decided that twins would be good... Ugh.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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If there is a choice between staying mad and having sex, have the sex. Whatever you were mad about probably wasn't that important anyway.
Posts: 1545 | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Finances: avoid buying anything you can't pay cash for (or pay off at the end of the month).
Whenever you decide to have children (or whenever th decision is taken out of your hands), make you both agree on how to raise them. How will you discipline them? Is spanking OK, or not? What sort of limits will you set, and will you both be able to enforce them?
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Finances are one of the biggest conflict areas in marriage, and it’s not always because of a shortage of money. I’ll let the much more qualified people tell you how to maximize your family’s wealth, and continue talking from a marital/pre-marital counseling perspective.
Try to get a sense of each of your financial “personalities.” Is one of you more gung-ho about saving and one more likely to spend on small luxuries? (Big luxuries I’m going to assume you’ll always decide together.) Are you each going to have a personal bank account with some money that you can do whatever you want with? What is the $ amount that you need to get approval from both partners before paying for something from your combined account? Will one of you freak out if the utility bill is a day late and the other one shrug and say “it’s only a $2 late charge"? If so, put the freak-out one in charge of paying the bills. (If neither of you is particularly obsessed with paying bills on time, set up a system where one or both of you go through the bills at least every other week and make sure they do get paid.)
While lots of people here have and will tell you how bad credit card debt is, some people do run a balance on their cards. Be sure you talk about whether the two of you believe this is ever an okay thing to do, and if so, in what types of situation you would do it. Same with other debt – the financial gurus can give you advice on what things are worth going in debt for – all I will say is to be sure that you and your fiancée are on the same page about which things you consider it worth going into debt for. Speaking of which, if either of you have any debt now, be sure to talk about that and about how you plan to deal with it – pay it off as quickly as possible, make smaller payments until some other financial obligations are dealt with, whatever. If there’s more than one debt, which will you concentrate on paying off first?
The biggest conflicts in marriage are around finances, children, sex, and communication. But if you spend time working on the last one the other three tend to improve as well.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Nope, I don't. I say, "It's up to God." And leave it at that. I refuse to get caught up in any conversations about this stuff.
Of course, it tends to irritate people, and they try to draw me out with more questions, which I always respond with "It's up to God." And they get more frustrated... Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Porter and his roomies use to give potential love-interests (usually of someone *else's* potential love-interest, not their own) the credit card test.
The test was simply to hold up a credit card and ask, "Is this money?"
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
As far as children, I'd say that's pretty much between you and your spouse. You two will decide when the time is right (unless there's an "accident"). That first child will completely change your life, so if there is anything exotic or adventurous you want to do as a young couple, do it before the kids come.
At the same time, I imagine you can wait indefinitely for the right time to have kids. The financial situation especially may never seem right, and there are always things you can think of doing that kids would put the damper on. My wife and I really should have taken that trip to Europe when we had the chance. But if you want children, you pretty much have to take the plunge at some point.
My wife and I also started our marriage planning to wait at least a year before we got pregnant. But after three months, we both decided that we might as well go for it. That's how it worked out for us. Every couple has to make that decision for themselves and only maybe lend a polite ear to everyone else's opinion, including Mom's. Each of our kids (including the one on the way) was our decision and ours only.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
[Disclaimer: I am not and have never been married. So I may not know what I am talking about.]
Whenever you do decide to have children, still take time out for yourselves as a couple. Leave the kids with a babysitter and go out on a date once a week. You don't want to wake up one day thirty or forty years from now and discover that the only thing you still have in common with your wife is the kids. And the baby just moved out and went to college. And you no longer have anything to talk to each other about.
Posts: 364 | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I think you're asking good questions, Nick.
I'd warn that just because you make a nice salary doesn't mean that you and your spouse will not have financial issues/differences. Do as suggested and have a long talk about *what* to do with any extra money (savings, etc.). Plan for the unexpected - Mr. Opera lost his job a few years ago, and with a mortgage and two kids we would have been in a world of hurt if we hadn't had savings. Even then, we're still recovering from the loss of income.
As far as kids, I don't think sooner/later makes as much of a difference as both people being on board with the idea. It's pretty common (I think) for one spouse to want children before the other, and each of you must respect the others' desires. I was ready for a third child about a year before Mr. Opera, and it killed me to wait so long. However, by waiting till he was ready I had a supportive wonderful husband through my pregnancy (good thing I did - since it involved bedrest) and a man who's thrilled to have a baby instead of someone who feels like he was pushed into fatherhood again before he was ready.
Let go of your expectations and see one another as people, not idealized versions of the true self. If you haven't already, you're going to see each other clipping toenails and all sorts of completely unromantic things. If you have children, there will be days without showers. Desire will wax and wane - that's normal. Learn to relate to one another on all levels and accept the fact that your love for one another will change the longer you're married. That's not a bad thing; it's just a different, even deeper, type of love than what you have during your early time together.
Good luck!
space opera
edit: Ok, I have to respond to the "date" once a week once you have children. It's a nice idea, but it's probably not going to happen. I don't know anyone who leaves their kids with a sitter once a week, but maybe that's just me. You can, however, have a nice "date" at home once kids are in bed. I think once/twice per month out sans kids is a more realistic expectation. Whether you go out or not, there's always ways to make private time as a couple, so as suggested, do it!
Posts: 2578 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Space Opera: edit: Ok, I have to respond to the "date" once a week once you have children. It's a nice idea, but it's probably not going to happen. I don't know anyone who leaves their kids with a sitter once a week, but maybe that's just me. You can, however, have a nice "date" at home once kids are in bed. I think once/twice per month out sans kids is a more realistic expectation. Whether you go out or not, there's always ways to make private time as a couple, so as suggested, do it!
Growing up I was very close with the family across the street and their parents without fail did the date once a week thing. Granted, by the time I met them there was always at least one kid old enough to stay home with the younger ones, so they didn't have to pay for a sitter.
On the other hand, they had a strong, comfortable marriage and my parents who never went on dates or anything together definately don't.
It might have something to do with the type of relationship you have pre marriage, as well. My boyfriend and I rarely go out on "dates" and haven't ever since we started dating. We do stuff together, but it's rarely a date. My brother and his girlfriend get dressed up about every other week and go out to a nice restaurant on a date. So it might just be a matter of how your relationship works.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Keep your disagreements private. No one else needs to hear it or see it. It is between the two of you. Respect each other.
Posts: 747 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Know that things will not necessarily go the way you want or plan for. We certainly didn't expect an epically difficult pregnancy and a 26-week micropreemie, but we got through it because of the work we put into our marriage and the love we have for each other. Honestly, I think we handled it much better than we would have if we'd had Aerin right after we were married.
You should both talk to your doctors and make sure that you don't have any conditions that can interfere with your ability to get pregnant. That way, you can make an informed decision regarding when to start trying.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
My best advice is to remember that criticism can multiply like rabbits and completely poison your marriage in record time. But the nice thing is that if you stop criticizing each other over stupid little things and replace criticism with expressions of love and praise, you can improve your relationship equally quickly.
You really don't have to tell her it drives you nuts when she <insert annoying habit here>. She probably won't change just because you want her to, and she'll resent you for pointing out something she can't (or doesn't want to) change. In turn, she may point out some annoying habit that you have, and then both of you may get into a cycle of seeing and pointing out only the less than stellar things you each do. And you don't want that.
Instead, either ignore the annoying habit or choose to see it as an endearing part of the woman you love. If it's something seriously troublesome (like she regularly misses deadlines for paying bills or she has a gambling addiction or she can't keep a job or she is doing something you don't approve of morally), talk to her about it without being accusatory. Come to a solution together, so that you are both still on the same team.
Posts: 1903 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Lots of great advice already! I'll add my thoughts (I've been married 3.5 years, with no children yet).
I'll echo other people's suggestions to avoid/pay down debt, set up savings and retirement plans, and be on the same page financially. Discuss and evaluate your spending habits and be sure you are both aware and comfortable with each other. My husband and I have slightly different financial styles but we have come to a happy medium. I would suggest that you set some sort of limit for yourselves for individual spending - for example, if my husband or I are going to make a purchase over about $100, we discuss it with each other first. Some couples do really well with a more formalized budget.
I'll also echo other people in saying that you need to decide together when you are ready for children and discuss parenting before its an issue. It is always a good idea to keep in the back of your mind that the unplanned does occur - so you "could" become a parent before you plan for it. You should discuss and agree on birth control methods together. I know how uncomfortable it can be to have outsiders ask you about children. If you decide together to wait, you can adapt my line for them: "I need time to figure out how to be a wife before I have to figure out how to be a mother."
Other advice I would give you:
Always be honest with each other - obviously, don't lie to each other, but also don't keep things from your spouse. Don't let your own shame or discomfort prevent you from telling your spouse things they need to know. Disagreements happen, but don't fight in public. Don't badmouth your spouse around other people. Yes, some things about your spouse will make you angry or nuts, but if you must voice it - share it with them, don't talk negatively about them to other people - I think it's an issue of respect. I am sometimes appalled at the things people will say about their spouses. Be aware of how your actions affect your spouse - you are a team. Tell them that you love them often. Be supportive. Give as much as you can and don't "expect" things in return - basically don't keep score. Everyone changes - one of the biggest challenges of a marriage is to change together. Do kind, unexpected little things for each other. Be on the same page about sex. While you cannot "make" your spouse happy, do everything that you can to contribute to their happiness (obviously you shouldn't make yourself miserable in attempts to make them happy, but make their happiness a priority). Spend time with each other. Be committed to each other and to your marriage. Compliment each other. Don't just love each other, but honestly like each other. Your spouse really should be your best friend - the first person you can share problems, concerns, and happiness with and go to for advice.
Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Here's my 2 cents: Don't plan on handling things 50/50. Like you'll do the garbage and she'll do the kitchen. 50/50 means that you're always having to negotiate and evaluate each other to see if you're both doing your part. And it gives you an excuse not to do your part if she doesn't do hers. Handle things 100/100. In this, I mean that you both try to give 100 percent to what needs doing. Then when you fall short, and you will, both of you will, you're falling short from 200%, which is pretty darned good.
Make a concerted effort to be grateful for your spouse every day. Especially when you're mad at each other. When it's the hardest, make an effort to remember why you married her, why you loved her then, and what new things you love her for now. And don't be surprised if you need to do this a lot your first year. The first years of both my marriages were very, very hard.
As for when to have kids, I didn't have my son until I'd been married to my first husband for 4 years. His birth galvanized what was already not a great marriage, and in many ways hastened our divorce. (Which is not to say that he caused it, of course, but the stress of parenthood merely emphasized the gaping cracks in the marriage relationship.) Which meant that when I got married the second time, we never had any time as "just the two of us". We've always had at least one child. Doesn't matter...we have a great marriage. We make an effort toward having date nights, and spend quite a bit of the day talking to each other on the phone -- the only time we can really communicate without the kids listening. He's a morning person and I'm not, so we found that the middle of the day on the phone works best for us to have decent communication. At least once during the work week we have lunch together.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I wasn't quite expecting such a large amount of feedback, and such good advice either. I appreciate all that you've given me. You guys are all cool.
We do both want kids later, but we don't quite know when, only that we want time together first. We have decided on getting a puppy soon though. A Bernese Mountain Dog , to be specific.
I do love her parents, I've known them just as long as her, since I met her because my parents were friends with her parents. Of course, this means that they're trying to take the credit for our relationship.
The only true issue I'm afraid of is that I don't want separate checking acounts. We both have agreed that we want to do a 401k that my job will offer, or maybe an IRA, but I can't see the benefit in multiple checking accounts. Can somebody enlighten me on this one? She doesn't seem open to communication on this particular subject. Is she afraid I'll judge her for her spending?
posted
Maybe she feels like she needs some of her own money to be "hers" to do with as she pleases, and she's worried that if you only have one account between you, she might not feel free to do that.
I'd think that separate accounts would be good for organizing the finances. Like each of you puts a certain amount into your individual accounts to buy little things for yourselves or surprise gifts for your spouse, or something.
posted
Separate checking accounts can keep y'all from overdrawing each other. It's one thing to keep your checkbook balanced when it's only you writing checks; it's another when you need to keep track of the ones your spouse has written as well. Some people have a large enough cushion that this is not an issue. Some couples reconcile checkbooks every few days, and/or agree not to write any large checks without discussion first (generally a good idea anyway).
Some couples just find it easier to maintain separate checking accounts (and if they're with the same bank, it's easy to link them to make transfers between them simple). Such accounts can still be joint (that way both of you can write checks on either if necessary), but one is mostly used by you, and one mostly by her.
Also, keep in mind that to many people, money is mentally associated with control. She may resist a shared account because it feels like she won't have control (and in some couples, this is actually true). How do her parents manage their money? Is there a shared account, or separate accounts? (And if the latter, it may be as simple as that's what she considers normal.)
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
We have several bank accounts, but things are a bit more complicated when one person is a citizen of the country and the other is not. We have a joint account in rupees, the local currency, but we also needed a foreign currency account (Fahim is paid in US dollars), but since I'm a foreigner, the rules are more complicated, including the need for a much much higher minimum balance, so...
The thing is, we've discussed it, we're doing what works for us, and that's all that matters. I think, Nick, that you need to ask her what she wants and ask her why. Listen and try to understand. Ask questions until you do understand. Then you'll be in a better position to make alternative suggestions if what she suggests doesn't work for you or whatever.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
We both kept our own checking accounts and opened an account together. Bob needs to keep an account in Texas, since his paycheck is direct deposited and that would be a major hassle (if it's even possible) across state lines. And we both had some automatic withdrawls and electronic check things set up that we haven't bothered to transfer to the joint account. His paycheck is deposited into the Texas account, and his car payment, insurance, and house payment for the Texas house are withdrawn automatically. He then either writes a check to our joint account, or just pays bills out of his account. I usually deposit my check into our joint account, and then write myself a check to my account to cover my student loans and quarterly tax stuff (UMC clergy are technically self-employed, according to the IRS so we pay quarterly estimated taxes) which are paid from that account by automatic withdrawl and online transfer. Since the accounts are in three separate banks, we have to write ourselves checks to transfer between them, but that's not a big deal. And we don't do it too often, we just pay the bills from whichever account has the most money in it at the time and that keeps them pretty much evened out.
Annother reason we like this -- Bob travels for work, and his expenses are reimbursed, but he pays them upfront. Since we'd rather avoid credit cards he uses a Visa check card from the Texas account and expenses are reimbursed by deposit to that account. That way, if the hotel he's staying at puts a huge hold on the card to cover his full week's stay plus possible other charges to the room (and some of them do that) I don't have to worry that suddenly my card won't work at the gas station.
I agree with quid -- the important question isn't how you configure your accounts, it's why. For us, it's more convenient this way. If it's a control thing, then you might have some more issues to work out.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Play to your strengths. My wife worked in accounting. She knows how to keep the books. So, she does the money. In fact, I'm not sure I have actually seen my paycheck for at least 30 years. I do tell her when I have to write a check (or use the ATM card) But, money is her responsibility. If I had those skills, we might have set it up differently. In compairing notes with friends, this arrangement has another benefit. She has never spent any money that I didn't have. We were, and remain debt free.
Posts: 1167 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I have nothing to say on the subject of marriage or kids at this juncture. However if you are concerned about finances understand the financial commitment you will be making to a Bernese Mountain dog. My next door neighbor happens to be a Berner Breeder.
First: Do you know how much one costs on average if it and its parents have had the proper hip, elbow and eye checks? It's $1200-1500 easy, if you are paying under $1000 for the dog, it's a puppy mill dog, or defective in some way that they aren't telling you. I don't know how much you are going to end up spending on the wedding but 1K is not an insignificant sum. In this breed it is Very VERY critical in this breed that you know the health checks done cause dysplasia in both hips and elbows and juvenile cataracts are huge issues in this breed.
Secondly have you ever seen one in person and realize how *big* they are? (only slightly smaller than a St. Bernard.) They need to be fed large breed puppy food, which is more expensive, and carefully monitored as they grow since they are considered a Giant breed. Their food costs throughout their lifetime will be high simply because of the food *quantity* they go through. And the lifespan of these dogs can be as short as 7 or 8 years. Some Swiss import bloodlines can make it to 9 or 10, but even 9 years is considered impressive.
Knowing that you are going to have a life altering experience such as a wedding and the upcoming wedding, as a responsible breeder, I personally wouldn't sell you a dog until probably 6 months after the wedding. The life situation you are discribing is the one tons of breeders have been burned by and gotten dogs returned from or have had a dog end up in rescue as a result.
I'm not saying don't get a dog. But I am saying, realize that the commitment you make to the dog is a *lifetime* commitment to that animal. It's different than with a child because it is *never* going to grow up and leave your home. And if/when you do have kids, it has to be just as much a part of the family as it was before. New babies are the other time when breeders get burned by young couples... the dog gets trundled back because it's bothering the baby, or the dog hair is in the crib, or some other such thing. And Berners SHED big time. The long dark hair shows up everywhere.
posted
Thanks for the heads up AJ, but my fiancees parents have 2 very loved berners, which I've spent a lot of time with, both with papers, and they're giving us a puppy as a wedding present.
I know how much they cost. They're pricey. Her mother owns a pet sitting business, so she can help with the dog if things get too hectic. Not that it will be a problem.
I have very strong feelings on the subject too, and I can appreciate yours, believe me. I've had dogs all my life though, I'll be okay. Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:But I am saying, realize that the commitment you make to the dog is a *lifetime* commitment to that animal. It's different than with a child because it is *never* going to grow up and leave your home.
Yes. Which is why you should be MUCH more committed to your dogs than to your children. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I don't know anyone who leaves their kids with a sitter once a week, but maybe that's just me. You can, however, have a nice "date" at home once kids are in bed. I think once/twice per month out sans kids is a more realistic expectation. Whether you go out or not, there's always ways to make private time as a couple, so as suggested, do it!
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