posted
Part of me wonders if it was a hate crime against Mormons or if the man who shot them thought their suits and ties were the garb of an opposing gang.
Posts: 1903 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
That's unknown at this point, Myr. Brinestone's just speculating. And those certainly aren't the only two options. The shooter could have been high on something, or it could have been an attempted robbery that went bad, for example. Or he could have been mentally unbalanced. Hopefully the missionary who's still alive will be able to help the police figure out what happened and why.
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posted
No idea. It could have been just another violent crime that by chance fell on two missionaries.
Posts: 767 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
And there's no indication from the article that the shooter knew they were missionaries. Two men in suits at the very least would imply a couple of cell phones and two wallets with at least a little cash. I'm betting robbery that went bad when the missionaries didn't have anything of value to give the robber.
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posted
Hey, KoM, it might be a good idea to try a little harder to not make comments like that. Of course, I can't imagine you giving your life for any type of belief whatsoever, so I guess it's okay.
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posted
Hey, Boris, it might be a good idea to not make rude comments while at the same time telling someone else not to.
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posted
This is so sad about the missionaries! How shocking! I really feel for his family -- I'm sure one never thinks about a missionary being violently attacked when they are serving within the U.S...
Farmgirl
(I have no idea what state "Chesapeake" is in - and have never heard of this WAVY-tv station, but I'm assuming it is in U.S.)
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posted
Quite right, Boris; the idea is to make the other guy give his life for his beliefs. Are you volunteering, by any chance?
EDIT : And kat, that's attention escort, if you please. It's not as though I stand about on street corners telling people about my beliefs. Assignations strictly by Internet only.
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posted
I would wonder what is missing in your life that you seek it so assiduously, but I don't actually care.
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quote:Originally posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan: Hey, Boris, it might be a good idea to not make rude comments while at the same time telling someone else not to.
posted
Hey, this isn't about KoM. It's about a tragic death by violence. The death of someone who wasn't doing any harm. Most of us feel the need to show some respect. (I admit I'm a bit numb at the moment, but I did not intend to offend.)
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quote:Originally posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan: Hey, Boris, it might be a good idea to not make rude comments while at the same time telling someone else not to.
Why not? It's fun
Well of course it's fun, but you lose the moral highground that way. Posts: 1658 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
One of my high school friends went to Northern Ireland for his Mormon mission. I always teased him that he was insane to get himself in between the Catholics and Protestants, and I was so relieved when he returned safely.
quote:(I have no idea what state "Chesapeake" is in - and have never heard of this WAVY-tv station, but I'm assuming it is in U.S.)
It's in Virginia. There's a map of the area included in this article.
quote:Police described the shooter as a black male, about 5’10’’, wearing a black hooded sweatshirt and jeans. Anyone with information is asked to call the Crime Line at 1-888-LOCK-U-UP (562-5887).
posted
I feel sorry for the parents and those who loved him.
I don't believe in heaven.
Edit:That is, I don't think death is really so tragic for the dead person. We all do it eventually. What I was getting at is that it is bad taste to make jokes about someone's death.
Most of us have gotten to the point that your attitude in threads like this is a curiosity more than anything else.
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It's not as if people are just sad because Mormons were killed. These were young men at the prime of their life sacrificing their time to serve something greater than themselves. You don't have to be a Mormon to be saddened by this tragedy.
Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Well, if that's the case, then all people of faith should be killed to hasten their ascent into heaven. Because it's not like they're trying to do good on earth, or anything.
The fact one is religious does not mean that he or she looks forward to dying.
quote:Originally posted by pH: Well, if that's the case, then all people of faith should be killed to hasten their ascent into heaven.
Well, yes, obviously. What's your point?
quote: Because it's not like they're trying to do good on earth, or anything.
But so was this killer! Obviously, all he wanted was for this missionary to get his just reward in heaven; in fact, he was even willing to sacrifice his own eternal reward to get it. Now there's real altruism! Imagine burning in hell for all eternity because you did someone a favour! Who knows, maybe he'll get the occasional sip of water?
Or to be a bit less facetious, if everyone died and went to heaven, then the lack of good deeds on earth would be utterly irrelevant. Kind of makes you wonder why your god doesn't hit us with a Great Big Comet, like with the dinosaurs, eh? Maybe heaven is full up with dinos already?
quote:The fact one is religious does not mean that he or she looks forward to dying.
Pain hurts, right. But then it's over, as OSC once pointed out in the context of being burned at the stake. However, I wasn't talking about the dead guy, but rather the reaction to his death. Why should you feel sad because someone goes to heaven?
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Well, what was the thread going to be except a bunch of sad smileys and "that's terrible"s anyway? But if you don't feel like actually examining your beliefs and making sure they are consistent, that's fine by me.
Unfortunately I do have to be going now, I'm running late as is, so you can have the thread to yourselves for the next six or seven hours. Ta-ta.
EDIT : Ack, you edited that and now my response doesn't make sense anymore. The original was, IIRC, "Sadly, another thread ruined by KoM. Someone give him a hug so he can go away."
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
KOM, I'm totally in agreement w/ what Olivet said above. However, to make it "a religion thing," here is Mormon doctrine on the matter, from Doctrine and Covenants 42:45-46:
"Thou shalt live together in love, insomuch that thou shalt weep for the loss of them that die, and more especially for those that have not hope of a glorious resurrection.
And it shall come to pass that those that die in me shall not taste of death, for it shall be sweet unto them."
(I haven't been here long, so I wouldn't be surprised if others have already posted the same thing to you and I'm just wasting my breath. But just wanted to make the case that just because our beliefs don't make sense to you doesn't mean they're unexamined. I mean, it's an obvious question that any believer is going to ask him/herself--if I believe, why do I grieve? Hmmm, seems like CS Lewis and many others have examined it in great detail . . .)
So, according to the scripture above, when we love one another we miss each other when we're gone, it's that simple. And no, I didn't know Elder Young personally, but how could I not be sad that the sweet young guy in that picture is gone? Not to mention that it is a tragedy for the killer, who will now have innocent blood on his hands; Christianity teaches that I should have compassion for him, as well.
And of course I know that there is a family that is grieving the loss of their son, friends who are in shock over someone gone so suddenly.
There is no moral inconsistency in grief simply because I believe in eternity. Mortality is real, and it's important. My code of beliefs dictates that life is sacred. There is a reason why people are commanded not to kill, and it is simply against nature to see a healthy young life ended like that. And yes, my beliefs also give me the hope that this kid's death was just a moment in time, and that he is in another, more joyful state now. Sorry, I'm still sad he's gone.
posted
(posted at the same time as Uprooted) Plus, it is sad and kind of scary to hear about things like this happening. My brother is on a mission in a similarly innocent seeming place--could something like this happen to him? Of course, it could happen to me or anyone.
When my sister was on a LDS mission, her mission was considered the most dangerous in the world, with 80% of missionaries robbed at gunpoint (according to the mission president), but nothing like this happened to her while she was there. As a family member of a missionary, stories like this make me personally scared for my family members, thankful that my family members are safe, and symphathy for those who havn't been as lucky as I.
Posts: 234 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
What a tragedy-as it is everytime someone is murdered, of course. I added that little note for you, KoM. Once again you prove that you're not actually interested in changing people's minds and helping them, but rather trumpeting your own particular brand of zealous ignorant posturing.
This seems a pretty obvious example of openly insulting someone else's religious beliefs. I realize you'll backpedal and dodge and writhe and squirm, but it's obvious. Hopefully the little whistle-icon will summon up something appropriate.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I'm sorry to hear this. My gut instinct tells me it's not related to them being missionaries. It's the type of crime scene my husband visits on a regular basis, I guess I've heard about too many senseless shootings from him to be shocked anymore.
Not that it matters why they were killed, really in the long run. Their families will be in pain, and will miss their loved onesand it's a very tragic event. I hope the one who was injured recovers from his physical wounds, I'm sure the emotional healing will take much longer.
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posted
I grew up in Va. Beach and Portsmouth. If I recall correctly, Deep Creek was a pretty rough area. I grieve for their family and friends.
quote:No, in fact you would almost have to be a non-Mormon. Or, I don't know, maybe not quite really believe in the doctrine of heaven after all.
There is NOTHING inconsistent about mourning death while believing in eternal life. Living until 70 decreases the amount of time or the glorious experience spent in eternal life by not one whit, but the experiences between 21 and 70 that would have happened are lost irretrievably.
But you're smart enough to know that, KoM.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Two comments for KoM: Mormons don't believe that common murderers spend forever in Hell. After they suffer a while for their sins, they inherit a kingdom of glory, but that glory is not nearly as bright as those who do not murder.
And as far as the children in Darfur go, it is awful what is happening there. Mormons believe that anyone who would have received the gospel had they had an opportunity to hear it in this life will receive all the blessings associated with receiving it in the hereafter.
Posts: 264 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
OK, so I'm just not going to read what else was typed in this (since half of it is a pissing fit). Chesapeake...hmmm. Yep lived there. Not suprised. Doesn't have to be either gang or hate related over there. If they were on the proverbial "wrong side of the tracks", then yes it can happen all to often unfortunately. I pray that their families can cope with this. Losing loved ones is very hard as it is. Especially when it is the more less goal of most (hopefully all) parents to die BEFORE their children do.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: There is NOTHING inconsistent about mourning death while believing in eternal life. Living until 70 decreases the amount of time or the glorious experience spent in eternal life by not one whit, but the experiences between 21 and 70 that would have happened are lost irretrievably.
But you're smart enough to know that, KoM.
Well, that's a moderately coherent argument; but still, I think you would have to agree that a death is a much worse thing in an atheist universe than in a theistic one. (Unless, of course, the god in question is the Catholic one and Mormons and atheists both go to hell.) However, what makes this death worse than any other, and more worthy of being posted to this forum? There have surely been any number of shootings in the US today, some of them quite likely fatal to innocent people. Why pick out this one, then? Surely it was precisely because the people in question were Mormons. But that is still precisely backwards, by the same doctrines Uprooted very kindly quoted at me :
quote:Thou shalt live together in love, insomuch that thou shalt weep for the loss of them that die, and more especially for those that have not hope of a glorious resurrection.
It is the singling out I find a touch hypocritical. Tell me, how many non-Mormon lives are worth the attention of one Mormon?
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posted
That depends. Are any of the non-Mormons you, or anyone as deliberately and blatantly offensive?
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