quote:Isaac Hayes Quits 'South Park,' By ERIN CARLSON, Associated Press Writer 20 minutes ago
Isaac Hayes has quit "South Park," where he voices Chef, saying he can no longer stomach its take on religion.
Hayes, who has played the ladies' man/school cook in the animated Comedy Central satire since 1997, said in a statement Monday that he feels a line has been crossed.
"There is a place in this world for satire, but there is a time when satire ends and intolerance and bigotry towards religious beliefs of others begins," the 63-year-old soul singer and outspoken Scientologist said.
"Religious beliefs are sacred to people, and at all times should be respected and honored," he continued. "As a civil rights activist of the past 40 years, I cannot support a show that disrespects those beliefs and practices."
"South Park" co-creator Matt Stone responded sharply in an interview with The Associated Press Monday, saying, "This is 100 percent having to do with his faith of Scientology... He has no problem — and he's cashed plenty of checks — with our show making fun of Christians."
Last November, "South Park" targeted the Church of Scientology and its celebrity followers, including actors Tom Cruise and John Travolta, in a top-rated episode called "Trapped in the Closet." In the episode, Stan, one of the show's four mischievous fourth graders, is hailed as a reluctant savior by Scientology leaders, while a cartoon Cruise locks himself in a closet and won't come out.
Stone told The AP he and co-creator Trey Parker "never heard a peep out of Isaac in any way until we did Scientology. He wants a different standard for religions other than his own, and to me, that is where intolerance and bigotry begin."
So its ok to make fun of Catholics, Protestants, Jews, and Muslims, but god forbid he listen to something poking fun at his own faith. Personally I think the Scientologists pressured him into leaving.
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What exactly do scientologists believe? They can't be a sect of Christianity or Isaac would have complained earlier than this, no?
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The one with by far the harshest criticism of the mormons ends with a wonderful affermation of what's Good about the faith. It was a fantastic episode. "dum-dum-dum-dum-dum!"
I missed the one about scientology.. But I don't think Issac/Chef ever really got what was funny about the show. He said in an interview that he'd get scripts and say "WHAT do you want me to sing?" but then it would work and people would laugh and he'd get paid so he'd sing or say anything they told him to.
I'm surprised he quit. I saw him act in an episode of SG1 and thought he should stick to voice acting. He was wooden and lifeless on screen.
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It was a funny episode with that R Kelly part. That cracked me up for days. I'm just biased against Scientology because of Jenna Elfman. She was on Dharma and Greg and I hate that show... She really is that ditzy too! arg >.< It's not nice, but... ah well.
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quote:Originally posted by vonk: This may be bigotry, but, uh, scientologists are crazy. it is a case of a Sci-Fi writer out of control. L. Ron Hubbard is a SF writer and one day a friend of his bet him that he couldn't create a religion. L. Ron Hubbard won that bet with scientology and sacrificed the sanity of good folk like Isaac Hayes.]
Yeah, I'm afraid you're going to have to provide some evidence for that claim before I even think about accepting it. Reputable sources please (heck, even Wikipedia doesn't mention the dare part, and it tends to lean towards sensationalism).
If you've read any of L. Ron Hubbard's books, you know that the whole Scientology line of thought it something he seemed to deeply believed in, and the general feel of it shows up in some of his writings. It maybe something from far far left field, but I'm not default on the assumption it was the product of a bet.
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Hubbard once wrote that the best way to make money was to create your own religion and he did.
I however like his work, Battlefield Earth and the Mission Earth series I couldn't put down no matter how disturbing I thought it was.
No matter how "good" Voltar may seem I consider it a belligerent empire hell bent on dominating the galaxy because some meglomaniacs a few thousand years ago told them to. They deserve to find some equally advance civilization and get toasted.
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There's no doubt he started believing it, too, though there's also significant doubts about his mental health later in life (we can't be sure, the only people allowed to see him much of the time were scientologists).
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I'm sad that Hayes is leaving the show, because the Chef songs were awesome. But considering they've been making fun of religions since the first season I have to agree that it's hypocritical of him and I'm glad Stone is calling him on it.
posted
In fairness, it might not be hypocracy. It might not have been until they mocked something he cared about that he realized how hurtful the show can feel.
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Probably is though....everyone who has ever WATCHED the show could see how over the top it was about every topic, so he can't very well truthfully claim to be unaware of the controversies surrounding them.
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I think it's interesting that the episode he's upset about aired in November and he's only quitting now. Perhaps there was pressure to quit from his Scientologist friends?
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There is a difference between South Park playfully mocking something, and South Park raking something over the coals. They playfully mock Mormons, Catholics, other Christians, etc. But their episode on Scientology was WAY more of an outright attack. They seemed very concerned about getting the word out about "the truth behind Scientology".
Now, I can look askance at Scientology with the best of them. Among things that are unlikely to be true, or even good for you, Scientology seems to be on the far end of the scale. But at the same time, you can see why someone who cares deeply about it might have serious reservations about continuing to work on a show that attacks it so vigorously.
He'd be much more of a hypocrite if he supported the show against his conscience, in my opinion.
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Hey, Geoff, shouldn't you be sleeping while you can? Or is that angel of yours sleeping through the night already?
I agree, though. And I can see how he could just be announcing now a decision he made a while back and discussed with them and finally decided to go through with.
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quote:Perhaps there was pressure to quit from his Scientologist friends?
Or the church itself. Most of this post will be purely speculative, but it makes a very strange kind of sense to me. Regardless, you were warned.
The church of scientology has made a really concerted effort at having certain aspects of it's dogma stay out of the public eye.
A friend and I once wasted half an hour watching parts of a video called "What is Scientology?" that he picked up for 50 cents at a garage sale. After spending about 20 minutes straight watching some speaker plug the church's humanitarian efforts around the world (which are impressive if they can be believed), we started skipping around the different chapters looking for the part where they actually answered the question posed in the title of the video. Just more philanthropy and generic self-growth stuff. L. Ron Hubbard was barely mentioned.
The official website is more of the same. More information describing their self-growth strategies, and a quick run-through of their univeral view (doesn't say much), and a lot of biographical information about Hubbard, but no real meat.
I think the church had to have been pissed when South Park aired that information on national TV. I am of course, referring to the segment where they show the segment with "this is actually what Scientologist's believe" emblazoned on the screen. The portrayal of Scientology leaders as conmen would really just have been icing on the cake. I can easily imagine them exerting quite a bit of influence on Hayes to get him to quit. I wouldn't go so far as to say they coerced him, but I do think a small nudge in the "right direction" was involved.
If the people who run Scientology are anything, they're smart. They know how all the stuff about aliens will sound to most people, so I guess they spring it on you once you've been in the church for a while. From an atheistic standpoint, the claims of Scientology are really no more or less ridiculous than any other religion. Realistically though, just the word "aliens" is so loaded and has so much mythology wrapped around it that what they're doing is very savvy. Legitimite religion or no, they have a very shrewd business plan.
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quote:On the other hand, I'm not convinced that Hayes is a hypocrite here. It is a fundamental practice of the Church of Scientology to accuse anyone who attacks Scientology of being anti-religion while ignoring attacks on other religions.
How is this not hypocracy?
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I think he was opining that since hypocrisy is a "fundamental practice of the Church of Scientology," then Hayes isn't a hypocrite. The logic doesn't follow, though. It's like saying that since polygamy is a fundamental practice of a (NOT Mormon!) religion, the followers aren't polygamists.
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quote: among things that are unlikely to be true, or even good for you, Scientology seems to be on the far end of the scale,
I'm very uncomfortable with calling it a "cult." Maybe I'm just a little over-sensitive, being a member of a religion that is so often dismissed as nothing but a cult. An evil, baby-eating one, at that. Posts: 786 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:I'm very uncomfortable with calling it a "cult."
The word cult is just so overused as to be meaningless. Different people mean it in different ways. Some use it to refer to a group that's dangerous, while others just use it for a group that is, in their opinion, blasphemous or "wrong" (i.e., believe differently than they do).
Rather than use a word that is highly emotional but essentially meaningless, Adam613, explain what you mean. Are they dangerous or just different?
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Scientology is fundamentally different from mormonism, in that mormonism is based on a previous religion and Scientology is based on science fiction. And you don't have to pay money (as far as I know) to become a more respected member of LDS.
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quote:Scientology is fundamentally different from mormonism, in that mormonism is based on a previous religion and Scientology is based on science fiction.
I disagree with what you said about Mormonism.
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Where are you coming from on that mph? Mormons believe that their Church is the restored Primitive Church (and more). Unless he was implying that the LDS are simply another Protestant religion, then I could understand your objection.
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And I heard somewhere that actors become scientologists because they're treated very well and very special. And that the reason they're wooed is for recruitment of others. People want to be like celebrities.
But you know how reliable information that you "heard somewhere" is...
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That's right, Bao. I assumed that Ryuko was saying that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints was based on other Christian churches, which I don't agree with.
And concerning the Primitive Church, we believe that the LDS Church isn't based on it, but is a restoration of it.
I know, to outsiders it appears that I'm picking a nit that isn't imporant. But it's important to me.
edit: 'cuz Rivka's correct
It doesn't bother me that Ryuko said what she did, as long as she doesn't mind my clarifications.
I'm not going to quote much because of copyright concerns. However, the entire footnoted text is available free online at the above link.
quote:Scientology, a peculiar force in our society, escapes tidy definition. The "Church" of Scientology claims religious status; yet at times Scientology represents itself as a psychotherapy, a set of business techniques, an educational system for children or a drug rehabilitation program. Officers of the Church belong to the largely landbound "Sea Organization," and wear pseudo-Naval uniforms, complete with campaign ribbons, colored lanyards, and badges of rank, giving Scientology a paramilitary air. Although Scientology has no teachings about God, Scientologists sometimes don the garb of Christian ministers. The teachings of Scientology are held out not only as scientifically proven, but also as scriptural, and therefore beyond question. Scientology was also the first cult to establish itself as a multinational business with marketing, public relations, legal and even intelligence departments.
Scientology is also unusual because it is not an extension of a particular traditional religion. It is a complex and apparently complete set of beliefs, techniques and rituals assembled by one man: L. Ron Hubbard. During the 36 years between the publication of his first psychotherapeutic text and his death in 1986, Hubbard constructed what appears to be one of the most elaborate belief systems of all time. The sheer volume of material daunts most investigators. Several thousand Hubbard lectures were tape-recorded, and his books, pamphlets and directives run to tens of thousands of pages.
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Edited to add: PapaJ, feel free to edit/delete if I've copied over too much for your comfort level.
My understanding of scientology (definitely limited, biased, and from the outsider position, albeit pretty well read) is that basically, when you first get involved you are taught techniques and lead through training to clear yourself of paychological/mental roadblocks. And then you progress to "clearing" your past lives -- all of this is assistance you are paying for, of course.
At some point it is revealed that a large component of one's mental roadblocks to happiness is tied up with "thetans," or alien/extraterrestrial life energies.
I haven't read much about Scientology for several years, so I bet I'm butchering it. As for myself, I'm less worried about the details of the belief structure and more worried about what appear to be the mafia-like enforcement tactics against those who criticize and/or leave the organization.
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Edited again to add: and the above link details the history of and legal issues of the Church of Scientology. Well-referenced, I might add.
I think rivka first pointed me towards the link.
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And concerning the Primitive Church, we believe that the LDS Church isn't based on it, but is a restoration of it.
I know, to outsiders it appears that I'm picking a nit that isn't imporant. But it's important to me.
Thats just an argument one shouldn't even have. Either you accept it, or you don't. Please don't take offense when someone who is not Mormom says it is based on Christianity. For them to say otherwise would go against their own faith (or lack thereof).
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It wasn't an argument, and I didn't take offense at all. In fact, in the same post you quoted, I explicitly said that I wasn't bothered by what Ryuko said.
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i have a friend who's dad is a scientologist. most of what i know about the 'religion' comes from that friend. granted he is incredibly biased, but i think he has a right to be. his dad used to be a well to do dental insurance salesman who took great care of his family. then, one day, he found out that if he joins this church they will tell him the secrets of the universe. so the dad goes to the first meeting and is hooked. but in order to go to the second meeting he has to pay a little bit of money. thats fine, not much money. but at the second meeting, they tell him all the cool things that he'll get once he know the "secrets," but don't actually tell him any. first, he has to pay more money. then once he pays more money, all he has to do is pay more money and they'll tell him the secrets. until he has no job and is flat broke and his wife left him and his son (my friend) will barely talk to him at all. he became obsessed. now, maybe this doesn't happen to everyone that joins scientology (certainly not loaded actors), but that sounds a helluva lot like a cult to me.
my friend has since done a large amount of research on scientology. i, myself, have not, but i believe my friend. i can't provide a works cited page, so i won't go into detail about what he has found out, because then someone will say "yeh? well prove it!" and i can't. but needless to say, scientology has done some really bad things to some really gullible people.
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I don't mind your clarifications, though I do mind you not spelling my name correctly.
I understand your objections, and I apologize. What I meant to say was that LDS shares a lot with Christianity, which is a connection that scientology doesn't have. Since Mormonism is both older than scientology and connected to something much older than that, even without considering the more shaky aspects of scientology, Mormonism and scientology can hardly be compared. (eta: inasmuch as both being accused of being cults)
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There is a fairly balanced account at U Virginia's Religious Movements webpage (has links to both pro and con sites at the end). Scroll down to Section II ("Beliefs of the Group") for a nice, tight summary of Dianetics and Scientology.
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A good counterpoint to the Scientology official website is Operation Clambake, which gives an account of scientology biased the complete opposite way. I'm not sure how reliable it is exactly, since it's very much based on personal experiences and accounts, but some of the information is scary indeed.
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quote:Originally posted by Ryuko: I understand your objections, and I apologize. What I meant to say was that LDS shares a lot with Christianity, which is a connection that scientology doesn't have. Since Mormonism is both older than scientology and connected to something much older than that, even without considering the more shaky aspects of scientology, Mormonism and scientology can hardly be compared. (eta: inasmuch as both being accused of being cults)
I agree. I didn't intend to indicate Mormonism and Scientology are on the same playing field; I used my own experience only as a way of illustrating my point that the word "cult" is usually associated with an extremely negative connotation. I don't like it being used to refer to my religion, and I would assume others don't like it being used in reference to theirs. Of course, in the Book of Mormon Nephi refers to the Great and Abominable Church as the Whore of All the Earth, which apellation is probably more offensive than "cult," but he was a prophet and I'm not .
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quote:Originally posted by Amanecer: Perhaps there was pressure to quit from his Scientologist friends?
Well maybe Tom Cruise pressured him into quiting. And I'm not so sure that they "aren't" a cult. No offence, but after some reading, they seem like a very popular cult.
And has anybody else read some of their beliefs? They are "almost" as crazy as South Park portaid them to be. Posts: 1941 | Registered: Dec 2005
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In the interest of fairness, the people who practice Scientology aren't crazy any more than anyone who believes in something. Paying as much as many of them do for it is, at the very least, ill-advised, but that I'd blame more on the organization behind the church than the belief itself.
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That maybe true Stephan. But I'm an athiest, and EVEN I would prefer a more standardized religion like the Q'uoran or the bible over the Scientology's crazy ideals.
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