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Author Topic: Oklahoma now kills repeat rapists!
erosomniac
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-06-09-okla-molester-executions_x.htm

quote:
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma on Friday became the fifth state to allow the death penalty for certain sex crimes, although legal scholars questioned the constitutionality of the new state law.

Under the measure signed by Gov. Brad Henry, anyone convicted twice for rape, sodomy or lewd molestation involving children under 14 can face the death penalty.


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King of Men
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Eh. Not that I'm so fond of the death penalty, but what the heck. If you're going to have one anyway, double pedophile rapists seem an entirely reasonable target.
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King of Men
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Hang on, hang on. Rape, ok. Sodomy, ok. But what is 'lewd molestation'? Can one be put to death for groping a twelve-year-old?
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ElJay
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Of course not. You'd have to grope a 12 year old twice, at least.
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Joldo
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Hm? Death penalty on this, now? Good.
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docmagik
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Wow. Oklahoma does have redeeming qualities.
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Elmer's Glue
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I'm all for the death penalty, but I don't think you should get it unless you killed someone.
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King of Men
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I'm against the death penalty, but I approve of equally severe punishments for murder and for rape of children.
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erosomniac
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quote:
I'm all for the death penalty, but I don't think you should get it unless you killed someone.
Can you qualify this further? By your logic, manslaughter perpetrators deserve to die more than serial rapists do.

Edit: perpetrators, not victims.

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Baron Samedi
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When they say sodomy, they're not talking about consenting adults, are they?

That would be pretty lame if you tried the wrong position a couple times and got the chair.

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Joldo
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Baron, these are all for these crimes involving children under 14. If it's two consenting adults, it's fine. This targets only child molesters, and as far as I'm concerned, there's no Hell hot nor cold enough for them.
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MandyM
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I have to agree here. They rape a child; fry 'em all! I am from Texas and in the words of Ron White, "In Texas we have the death penalty and we use it! If you come to Texas and kill somebody, we will kill you back. Other states are trying to abolish the death penalty; my state's putting in an express lane."
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pH
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Gah! Bad bad bad bad.

Death penalty bad.

I mean, trust me, I have absolute contempt and scorn for sexual predators, but the death penalty?

No. I don't care if it's for molesting children or not. The death penalty isn't the way to go.

-pH

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erosomniac
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quote:
No. I don't care if it's for molesting children or not. The death penalty isn't the way to go.
Why?
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Boon
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Yes, yes it is. [Frown]
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Dagonee
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quote:
Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:
I'm all for the death penalty, but I don't think you should get it unless you killed someone.
Can you qualify this further? By your logic, manslaughter perpetrators deserve to die more than serial rapists do.

Edit: perpetrators, not victims.

His logic doesn't necessarily lead to that conclusion.

It just means that death is necessary to justify capital punishment. Not that death is sufficient.

If all we know about two crimes under someones ranking scheme is that neither deserve the death penalty, we don't know which is considered worse.

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Belle
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quote:
I'm against the death penalty, but I approve of equally severe punishments for murder and for rape of children.
My goodness I agree with King of Men. [Eek!]
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pH
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quote:
Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:
No. I don't care if it's for molesting children or not. The death penalty isn't the way to go.
Why?
I oppose the death penalty, period. Under all circumstances.

-pH

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Reticulum
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Agreed. No has the right to decide who lives or dies.
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Stan the man
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I rather agree with the capital punishment. I believe it should also be used for repeat rapists in which the victims are older than 14 as well though. Now...if we can just lower the cost of the process for capital punishment...
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erosomniac
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagonee:
quote:
Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:
I'm all for the death penalty, but I don't think you should get it unless you killed someone.
Can you qualify this further? By your logic, manslaughter perpetrators deserve to die more than serial rapists do.

Edit: perpetrators, not victims.

His logic doesn't necessarily lead to that conclusion.

It just means that death is necessary to justify capital punishment. Not that death is sufficient.

If all we know about two crimes under someones ranking scheme is that neither deserve the death penalty, we don't know which is considered worse.

I misspoke. We DO know that with the information given, manslaughter could justify the death penalty, and child rape could not.
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Evie3217
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I agree with King of Men. (Wow, I never thought I would say that sentence.) The death penalty isn't the way to go, but there should be a severe punishment for rape.
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docmagik
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re: Deciding who lives and dies

I'd say that as long as you're up front about the fact they're going to die for it before hand, from there the decision was pretty much up to them.

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Stan the man
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What would be a severe punishment? Going to jail? Getting 3 square meals a day? Getting free cable and an exercise room? Granted you get paid 42 cents a day for chores, but still. It's pretty much here's 10/20 years of free loading for you.

Granted one thing: Child rapists would not survive jail/prison anyway. The other inmates will take care of the death penalty for you.

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Boris
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quote:
Originally posted by Stan the man:
What would be a severe punishment? Going to jail? Getting 3 square meals a day? Getting free cable and an exercise room? Granted you get paid 42 cents a day for chores, but still. It's pretty much here's 10/20 years of free loading for you.

Granted one thing: Child rapists would not survive jail/prison anyway. The other inmates will take care of the death penalty for you.

That, I imagine, depends on the level of security in the prison. Frankly, I think the emotional damage done to a child victim in these cases can sometimes be considered a fate worse than death.
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Celaeno
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quote:
Originally posted by docmagik:
re: Deciding who lives and dies

I'd say that as long as you're up front about the fact they're going to die for it before hand, from there the decision was pretty much up to them.

Just a question to clarify: are you saying that any punishment is just as long as the punishments for actions are public knowledge?
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Miro
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Sodomy? I thought sodomy laws were ruled unconstitutional in Lawrence vs. Texas.
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Stan the man
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quote:
That, I imagine, depends on the level of security in the prison. Frankly, I think the emotional damage done to a child victim in these cases can sometimes be considered a fate worse than death.
Which is why I support capital punishment for this.
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Synesthesia
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I don't believe in the death penalty, but perhaps being jailed for life and never getting paroled ever is a better solution.
Molesters should never be allowed to walk free.

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erosomniac
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quote:
I don't believe in the death penalty, but perhaps being jailed for life and never getting paroled ever is a better solution.
Molesters should never be allowed to walk free.

I'm inclined to agree only because I view life in prison as a fate much, much worse than death.
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Dagonee
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quote:
Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:
Originally posted by Dagonee:
quote:
Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:
I'm all for the death penalty, but I don't think you should get it unless you killed someone.
Can you qualify this further? By your logic, manslaughter perpetrators deserve to die more than serial rapists do.

Edit: perpetrators, not victims.

His logic doesn't necessarily lead to that conclusion.

It just means that death is necessary to justify capital punishment. Not that death is sufficient.

If all we know about two crimes under someones ranking scheme is that neither deserve the death penalty, we don't know which is considered worse.

I misspoke. We DO know that with the information given, manslaughter could justify the death penalty, and child rape could not.
No, we don't. He hasn't listed all the conditions necessary. He did not say that all people who kill someone should receive it.
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docmagik
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quote:
Just a question to clarify: are you saying that any punishment is just as long as the punishments for actions are public knowledge?
Ooh, you were so close.

Not public knowledge--public consent.

If society publically recognizes that the person who commits an act is worthy of _________, then the person who commits the act has decided they're willing to run the risk of __________.

Fill it in with whatever punishment you like, and feel free to make your own judgements about what crimes society would deem worthy of that, if any.

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Stan the man
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quote:
I'm inclined to agree only because I view life in prison as a fate much, much worse than death.
Where I started growing up people on the street would kill you just so they could go to jail. It's a roof over their head and food at taxpayer expense. Fate worse than death? Hardly.

My whole thing is based on getting and keeping people like rapists off the streets. Out of society. An' not be a burden on the taxpayer.

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MandyM
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I'm sorry but I look at my beautiful sleeping child in the next room and think if someone were to violate her, I would want them to die. Period. Not just for revenge, although that is certainly part of it, but also because prison is not the deterrent it was designed to be and I don't believe that child molesters get it worse in prision. There are too many of them in there now. Look at docmagik's fill in the blanks. Fill it in with life in prison and you will see plenty of people sitting in jail who "chose" that path. I don't think that is a good enough punishment for emotionally and physically ruining a child. In our society, we just don't have anything other than prison or death. If my daughter were hurt and the choices were jail for a while, jail forever (unless they overturn the verdict or give a pardon or the prison is too overcrowded or some other reason for letting the guy out) or death, then I pick death. Sorry folks but that's my kid! And if it were my kid doing the violating, I would feel the same way.
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scholar
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I am opposed to the death penalty, so overall I am against this. However, from what I understand pedophiliacs are one of the hardest groups to reform, even harder than murder. So, if I could get over my issues with the death penalty, I would probably support killing child rapist more than I would murderers.
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erosomniac
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quote:
No, we don't. He hasn't listed all the conditions necessary. He did not say that all people who kill someone should receive it.
I said could, not should.

quote:
Where I started growing up people on the street would kill you just so they could go to jail. It's a roof over their head and food at taxpayer expense. Fate worse than death? Hardly.
I'm sure there are people that way. There are also people like me, who view imprisonment, especially prolonged imprisonment, as a fate worse than death.

quote:


My whole thing is based on getting and keeping people like rapists off the streets. Out of society. An' not be a burden on the taxpayer.

I agree - which is a small part of why I am in favor of the death penalty.
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King of Men
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Ten or twenty years of freeloading, possibly, but ye gods, what's the point of such a life? No books, no sex (and no, I do not consider anal rape an acceptable substitute), nothing to create. I think I'd almost rather be dead.
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Robin Kaczmarczyk
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I guess that death penalty is so utterly anarchic, that it only leaves one option for 12 year old gawkers:

1. Surivive by any means necessary.

and of course, the ever important:

2. Never be taken in by OK Police alive.

On another topic, I'd be all for that death penalty for the rape of underage children so long as the parent's victims themselves did the killing.

Otherwise it's just too tempting to attract sadists to the police force and keep them there.

That way, the parent can decide if murder is a fair wage for rape.

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Celaeno
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quote:
Originally posted by Miro:
Sodomy? I thought sodomy laws were ruled unconstitutional in Lawrence vs. Texas.

You're absolutely correct, but those were laws against sodomy between two consenting adults. This, as Joldo said, has nothing to do with two consenting adults.
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Lalo
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Bravo. I hope this becomes federal law.
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Rakeesh
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Robin,

To correct some more of your ignorance, it is not the police force which executes sentence on criminals. Not in the sense most people mean when they say 'police force'. Furthermore, the death penalty is not of itself 'anarchic'.

Societies throughout the world have had it for millenia without being anarchic.

---------------

While I am opposed to the death penalty, I am not opposed to it unconditionially and I think it is foolish and selfish to say that no one has the right to decide who lives and who dies. For example, I certainly have that right if someone attacks me with lethal force and the only way I can stop them is by returning lethal force.

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Jim-Me
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris:
Frankly, I think the emotional damage done to a child victim in these cases can sometimes be considered a fate worse than death.

I will categorically disagree with that. You can heal from sexual abuse. You can't heal from death. [Smile]

more in a bit.

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Stan the man
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Jim-Me, ya don't heal at all from sexual abuse. You just learn to hide it better. One of my priests left the church due to this. Suprisingly it was because he was sexually abused as a child by his baby-sitter. This priest was at least 35. He just couldn't stand up front the church anymore. I haven't seen or heard from him in about 17 years.

Oh, KoM, there is a library in prison. In fact, quite a few prisoners will study during the time they have.

Prison:
Library
3 meals
cable
exercise
basketball court
big lounge to talk or play cards
job placement workshops
conjugal visits

Death:
None of the above except maybe the conjugal visits, but they are really just visits that you can't see, hear, feel, or acknowledge. Mainly because you are dead.

edit to add: I am not basing my prison stuff off of tv or movies. I have been through the county prison back home a few times. My friend was a county sherrif and gave a tour here and there.

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Kyvin
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good job, oklahoma! pedophiles are pure evil. they deserve death. it's nice to know the united states has some sense of sexual morality.

i never realized it was legal under federal laws to execute for any crime other than murder...

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Stan the man
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There's a few more out ther, but they deal with military and such. Rarely ever done, but they are there.
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Jim-Me
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quote:
Originally posted by Stan the man:
Jim-Me, ya don't heal at all from sexual abuse. You just learn to hide it better.

Stan, if I recall, you've read and commented on my landmarks. I'm neither hiding nor continuing to suffer.
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Fyfe
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My problem with the death penalty is that our justice system isn't perfect, and it won't ever be perfect. There are always factors that can screw up trials, and innocent people do sometimes receive convictions. And the death penalty. So just on that basis I am against it.
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scholar
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As far as prison being a cushy time, try committing a crime in AZ during summer. No AC, limited water, green meat, no tv and of course the infamous pink underwear. Of course, I moved a few years ago and haven't heard much since then.
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romanylass
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Men:
I'm against the death penalty, but I approve of equally severe punishments for murder and for rape of children.

KoM said what I was thinking! It must be a sign of the apocolypse.
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romanylass
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quote:
Originally posted by Stan the man:
Jim-Me, ya don't heal at all from sexual abuse. You just learn to hide it better.


I really, really have to disagree with this. Who are you to say another person can't heal from anything? I was sexually abused by my father for most of my childhood, in addition to whole other lot of shit that happened to me, and you know what? I'm OK, I've dealt with it, I'm sane and whole.YOU do not get to tell ME I'm not healed, and can't be healed.
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