quote:OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma on Friday became the fifth state to allow the death penalty for certain sex crimes, although legal scholars questioned the constitutionality of the new state law.
Under the measure signed by Gov. Brad Henry, anyone convicted twice for rape, sodomy or lewd molestation involving children under 14 can face the death penalty.
posted
Eh. Not that I'm so fond of the death penalty, but what the heck. If you're going to have one anyway, double pedophile rapists seem an entirely reasonable target.
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posted
Hang on, hang on. Rape, ok. Sodomy, ok. But what is 'lewd molestation'? Can one be put to death for groping a twelve-year-old?
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posted
I'm against the death penalty, but I approve of equally severe punishments for murder and for rape of children.
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posted
Baron, these are all for these crimes involving children under 14. If it's two consenting adults, it's fine. This targets only child molesters, and as far as I'm concerned, there's no Hell hot nor cold enough for them.
Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2004
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I have to agree here. They rape a child; fry 'em all! I am from Texas and in the words of Ron White, "In Texas we have the death penalty and we use it! If you come to Texas and kill somebody, we will kill you back. Other states are trying to abolish the death penalty; my state's putting in an express lane."
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quote:I'm all for the death penalty, but I don't think you should get it unless you killed someone.
Can you qualify this further? By your logic, manslaughter perpetrators deserve to die more than serial rapists do.
Edit: perpetrators, not victims.
His logic doesn't necessarily lead to that conclusion.
It just means that death is necessary to justify capital punishment. Not that death is sufficient.
If all we know about two crimes under someones ranking scheme is that neither deserve the death penalty, we don't know which is considered worse.
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posted
I rather agree with the capital punishment. I believe it should also be used for repeat rapists in which the victims are older than 14 as well though. Now...if we can just lower the cost of the process for capital punishment...
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quote:I'm all for the death penalty, but I don't think you should get it unless you killed someone.
Can you qualify this further? By your logic, manslaughter perpetrators deserve to die more than serial rapists do.
Edit: perpetrators, not victims.
His logic doesn't necessarily lead to that conclusion.
It just means that death is necessary to justify capital punishment. Not that death is sufficient.
If all we know about two crimes under someones ranking scheme is that neither deserve the death penalty, we don't know which is considered worse.
I misspoke. We DO know that with the information given, manslaughter could justify the death penalty, and child rape could not.
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posted
I agree with King of Men. (Wow, I never thought I would say that sentence.) The death penalty isn't the way to go, but there should be a severe punishment for rape.
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I'd say that as long as you're up front about the fact they're going to die for it before hand, from there the decision was pretty much up to them.
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What would be a severe punishment? Going to jail? Getting 3 square meals a day? Getting free cable and an exercise room? Granted you get paid 42 cents a day for chores, but still. It's pretty much here's 10/20 years of free loading for you.
Granted one thing: Child rapists would not survive jail/prison anyway. The other inmates will take care of the death penalty for you.
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quote:Originally posted by Stan the man: What would be a severe punishment? Going to jail? Getting 3 square meals a day? Getting free cable and an exercise room? Granted you get paid 42 cents a day for chores, but still. It's pretty much here's 10/20 years of free loading for you.
Granted one thing: Child rapists would not survive jail/prison anyway. The other inmates will take care of the death penalty for you.
That, I imagine, depends on the level of security in the prison. Frankly, I think the emotional damage done to a child victim in these cases can sometimes be considered a fate worse than death.
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quote:Originally posted by docmagik: re: Deciding who lives and dies
I'd say that as long as you're up front about the fact they're going to die for it before hand, from there the decision was pretty much up to them.
Just a question to clarify: are you saying that any punishment is just as long as the punishments for actions are public knowledge?
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quote: That, I imagine, depends on the level of security in the prison. Frankly, I think the emotional damage done to a child victim in these cases can sometimes be considered a fate worse than death.
Which is why I support capital punishment for this.
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posted
I don't believe in the death penalty, but perhaps being jailed for life and never getting paroled ever is a better solution. Molesters should never be allowed to walk free.
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quote:I don't believe in the death penalty, but perhaps being jailed for life and never getting paroled ever is a better solution. Molesters should never be allowed to walk free.
I'm inclined to agree only because I view life in prison as a fate much, much worse than death.
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quote:I'm all for the death penalty, but I don't think you should get it unless you killed someone.
Can you qualify this further? By your logic, manslaughter perpetrators deserve to die more than serial rapists do.
Edit: perpetrators, not victims.
His logic doesn't necessarily lead to that conclusion.
It just means that death is necessary to justify capital punishment. Not that death is sufficient.
If all we know about two crimes under someones ranking scheme is that neither deserve the death penalty, we don't know which is considered worse.
I misspoke. We DO know that with the information given, manslaughter could justify the death penalty, and child rape could not.
No, we don't. He hasn't listed all the conditions necessary. He did not say that all people who kill someone should receive it.
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quote:Just a question to clarify: are you saying that any punishment is just as long as the punishments for actions are public knowledge?
Ooh, you were so close.
Not public knowledge--public consent.
If society publically recognizes that the person who commits an act is worthy of _________, then the person who commits the act has decided they're willing to run the risk of __________.
Fill it in with whatever punishment you like, and feel free to make your own judgements about what crimes society would deem worthy of that, if any.
Posts: 1894 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote: I'm inclined to agree only because I view life in prison as a fate much, much worse than death.
Where I started growing up people on the street would kill you just so they could go to jail. It's a roof over their head and food at taxpayer expense. Fate worse than death? Hardly.
My whole thing is based on getting and keeping people like rapists off the streets. Out of society. An' not be a burden on the taxpayer.
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posted
I'm sorry but I look at my beautiful sleeping child in the next room and think if someone were to violate her, I would want them to die. Period. Not just for revenge, although that is certainly part of it, but also because prison is not the deterrent it was designed to be and I don't believe that child molesters get it worse in prision. There are too many of them in there now. Look at docmagik's fill in the blanks. Fill it in with life in prison and you will see plenty of people sitting in jail who "chose" that path. I don't think that is a good enough punishment for emotionally and physically ruining a child. In our society, we just don't have anything other than prison or death. If my daughter were hurt and the choices were jail for a while, jail forever (unless they overturn the verdict or give a pardon or the prison is too overcrowded or some other reason for letting the guy out) or death, then I pick death. Sorry folks but that's my kid! And if it were my kid doing the violating, I would feel the same way.
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I am opposed to the death penalty, so overall I am against this. However, from what I understand pedophiliacs are one of the hardest groups to reform, even harder than murder. So, if I could get over my issues with the death penalty, I would probably support killing child rapist more than I would murderers.
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quote:No, we don't. He hasn't listed all the conditions necessary. He did not say that all people who kill someone should receive it.
I said could, not should.
quote:Where I started growing up people on the street would kill you just so they could go to jail. It's a roof over their head and food at taxpayer expense. Fate worse than death? Hardly.
I'm sure there are people that way. There are also people like me, who view imprisonment, especially prolonged imprisonment, as a fate worse than death.
quote:
My whole thing is based on getting and keeping people like rapists off the streets. Out of society. An' not be a burden on the taxpayer.
I agree - which is a small part of why I am in favor of the death penalty.
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posted
Ten or twenty years of freeloading, possibly, but ye gods, what's the point of such a life? No books, no sex (and no, I do not consider anal rape an acceptable substitute), nothing to create. I think I'd almost rather be dead.
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quote:Originally posted by Miro: Sodomy? I thought sodomy laws were ruled unconstitutional in Lawrence vs. Texas.
You're absolutely correct, but those were laws against sodomy between two consenting adults. This, as Joldo said, has nothing to do with two consenting adults.
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To correct some more of your ignorance, it is not the police force which executes sentence on criminals. Not in the sense most people mean when they say 'police force'. Furthermore, the death penalty is not of itself 'anarchic'.
Societies throughout the world have had it for millenia without being anarchic.
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While I am opposed to the death penalty, I am not opposed to it unconditionially and I think it is foolish and selfish to say that no one has the right to decide who lives and who dies. For example, I certainly have that right if someone attacks me with lethal force and the only way I can stop them is by returning lethal force.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Boris: Frankly, I think the emotional damage done to a child victim in these cases can sometimes be considered a fate worse than death.
I will categorically disagree with that. You can heal from sexual abuse. You can't heal from death.
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Jim-Me, ya don't heal at all from sexual abuse. You just learn to hide it better. One of my priests left the church due to this. Suprisingly it was because he was sexually abused as a child by his baby-sitter. This priest was at least 35. He just couldn't stand up front the church anymore. I haven't seen or heard from him in about 17 years.
Oh, KoM, there is a library in prison. In fact, quite a few prisoners will study during the time they have.
Prison: Library 3 meals cable exercise basketball court big lounge to talk or play cards job placement workshops conjugal visits
Death: None of the above except maybe the conjugal visits, but they are really just visits that you can't see, hear, feel, or acknowledge. Mainly because you are dead.
edit to add: I am not basing my prison stuff off of tv or movies. I have been through the county prison back home a few times. My friend was a county sherrif and gave a tour here and there.
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posted
There's a few more out ther, but they deal with military and such. Rarely ever done, but they are there.
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quote:Originally posted by Stan the man: Jim-Me, ya don't heal at all from sexual abuse. You just learn to hide it better.
Stan, if I recall, you've read and commented on my landmarks. I'm neither hiding nor continuing to suffer.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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My problem with the death penalty is that our justice system isn't perfect, and it won't ever be perfect. There are always factors that can screw up trials, and innocent people do sometimes receive convictions. And the death penalty. So just on that basis I am against it.
Posts: 910 | Registered: May 2000
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As far as prison being a cushy time, try committing a crime in AZ during summer. No AC, limited water, green meat, no tv and of course the infamous pink underwear. Of course, I moved a few years ago and haven't heard much since then.
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by King of Men: I'm against the death penalty, but I approve of equally severe punishments for murder and for rape of children.
KoM said what I was thinking! It must be a sign of the apocolypse.
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quote:Originally posted by Stan the man: Jim-Me, ya don't heal at all from sexual abuse. You just learn to hide it better.
I really, really have to disagree with this. Who are you to say another person can't heal from anything? I was sexually abused by my father for most of my childhood, in addition to whole other lot of shit that happened to me, and you know what? I'm OK, I've dealt with it, I'm sane and whole.YOU do not get to tell ME I'm not healed, and can't be healed.
Posts: 2711 | Registered: Mar 2004
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