posted
Super Bill Counterfeit Attack Here is an attack that I just heard about today connected with North Korea, though I have heard it mentioned a few times before. Iran and the Soviet Union supposedly caused a great deal of the Inflation in the Eighties with counterfeit money, the Nazi's had plans to attack the British economy in this way.
Personally I think we need to target this industry with every and any asset we have, this pedophile madman cashing in on the full faith and credit of the United States, it turns the stomach.
posted
Actually, the US treasury could deal with even a huge operation of this type by simply reducing the number of bills it prints itself.
In essence, North Korea is printing our bills for us for free...if they're that good a counterfeit that they're accepted for the real thing.
The sad part is that we're (the world) giving N. Korea real goods and services in exchange for the bills they print. So, in essence, we're (the rest of the world) paying for their printing operation by selling them technology that they could then use against us.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Why not counter-attack with a storm of fake Korean bills or something? OOH you could airdrop a million tons of Korean money into their major cities and all the people would scoop it up, and the money would become useless. This would be a highly effective weapon of mass inflation. Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
So, do the same with umpteen billion cigarettes. The real currency drops to zero value, everybody gets lung cancer, and the tobacco companies get one last fling at government expense. Everybody is happy!
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Well, talk about an effective attack method though: shower them with wonderful money... not so wonderful anymore.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Consider that it costs a nickle to print a Hundred Dollar bill, If you print a hundred million dollars at a cost of $2500, that is a theft of $99,997,500, and this has been ongoing for over a decade.
The billions of dollars so gained have allowed Kimm II Jong to maintain his power with a lattice of favors to his cronies and foreign officials. Also it looks like this is enough to finance an R&D program for weapons as well as missiles. He is stealing the money from our country, beating down the value of the dollar, and using it to threaten our security.
This is intolerable, It must be stopped even if it means war with North Korea.
Just create a new $100 dollar bill, WAIT WAIT I KNOW ITS BEEN DONE ALREADY!
Have the new bill feature a picture of a bald eagle defecating on Kim Jong Il and I seriously doubt they would be willing to keep printing our currency.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Those wily Commies are one step ahead of us, KoM.
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: So, do the same with umpteen billion cigarettes. The real currency drops to zero value, everybody gets lung cancer, and the tobacco companies get one last fling at government expense. Everybody is happy!
quote: DAVID ASHER: Chinese gangsters have set up a large number of factories to produce counterfeit cigarettes in North Korea.
posted
No, this is an act of war, it is a foreign power attacking our freedom at the core. It is as simple as this for those of you to whom freedom is just an abstract concept instead of having a real referent.
The fact is that freedom is the choices available to each individual. Money is a symbol for much of that freedom. A reduction in the value of our money, the theft and consumption of goods and services with our money, both these reduce our freedom at the very foundation of our economy.
This is poisoning the wells, this is burning the grain in the fields, this is literally taking the candy from our babies and the medicine from our senior citizens. This pushes anybody at the edge over and into possible death. People die from this, and then comes the thief to murder with the guns he bought after taking the DVD Player.
Those who lack the imagination to make this connection, I am sad for them, they will always have to have the big choices made for them. Who else can see this as the attack it is? Who else sees this as war?
posted
But it's not just North Korea. There were people involved in Birmingham, Dublin, Moscow...the IRA, the KGB. It's criminal, but is it an act of war?
Posts: 283 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Yes, if an American counterfeits money, he is a criminal, any foreign group doing so is engaged in terrorism, any nation that is doing so is engaged in warfare.
posted
So it's terrorism, by that definition. Even though my definition of terrorism is clearly quite different from yours.
Posts: 283 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Try googling "Superbill attack", it shows that this is crap.
There have been accusations of this type of activity for years but little proof.
Also, the presses sold to Iran were sold years go, and probably not capable of making the new currency.
Hell, right at the top of the link BC provided it says
quote: NB: THIS TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A TRANSCRIPTION UNIT RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT: BECAUSE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF MIS- HEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY, IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE BBC CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS ACCURACY.
quote: So it's terrorism, by that definition. Even though my definition of terrorism is clearly quite different from yours.
This is a Nation engaged in this activity, not just a foriegn group. North Korea falls under the catigory of a Nation for the most part.
As for the machines not being able to make the new bills, the special presses that are used by the treasury are not new, I believe they are over a century old.
posted
BC, do you really believe what you write? "Burning the grain", "taking the candy from our babies"?
Which reminds me: where did you get that "billions of dollars" figure you tossed off in your second post? Thin air? The biggest figure in your link was $30 million. The figure I got from a news story quotes Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren saying approx. $100 million was counterfeited by everybody, worldwide, in 2005. He went on to say that represents 1/1000 of a percent, or one hundred thousandth, or 1/100000 of the real US money supply. 1/100000, that's the SS 2005 counterfeit estimate for everybody, including the North Koreans, criminal gangs, the odd bored Kinko's clerk.
Oooohhh, 1/100000 of our money, those bastards, let's lash out blindly in all directions and show them all what for! But why let reason get in the way of a jingoistic rain dance, eh Bean Counter?
quote:Originally posted by Bean Counter: This is poisoning the wells, this is burning the grain in the fields, this is literally taking the candy from our babies and the medicine from our senior citizens. This pushes anybody at the edge over and into possible death. People die from this, and then comes the thief to murder with the guns he bought after taking the DVD Player.
quote: In fiscal 2005, approximately $56.2 million in counterfeit money was passed—that is, used in a transaction resulting in a fi- nancial loss to the recipient of the note—of which $31.3 million was digitally produced. Another $14.7 million in fake bills was seized before they could be injected into the economy. Internationally, $38 million in fake money was seized that year.
There is about $750 billion in genuine U.S. currency in circulation worldwide, about two-thirds of it outside our borders. The dollar amount of counterfeit currency is notable for its smallness relative to the size of the currency pool.
“About one one-thousandth of a percent of U.S. currency in circulation [worldwide] is counterfeit,” he [Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren] said. “We’ve managed to keep counterfeiting numbers low relative to the real thing ... and it’s never been seen in quantities where it would shake confidence in the dollar.”
posted
Well, in principle BC is quite right, counterfeting money is stealing. Done on a large enough scale by a nation-state, yes, it might even be an act of war. I do think he has yet to show that NK is doing it on any scale at all, much less a large one.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Freedom is an abstract concept. Counterfeiting is not automatically warfare. The superbill is a tall order, but I suppose it fits the present modus operandi for Bean Counter crossposting.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Freedom may be abstract to the uninitiated, to me it is a part of each person, like their arms. As for the billions, it is a simple extrapolation of process, hundreds of millions for over a decade puts us in the billions.
The point of this whole thing for the very thick is that the bill is not detected in circulation, it is as good as real, If only one tenth if a percent is detected then of the 750 Billion puts the amount in circulation 750 million. Not much of a stretch if the bills are as good as described.
A super bill "crisis" in the news is hardly something the Fed would want, so it is understandable that it is not bandied about, but is instead downplayed, yet the incidents are ubiquitous and obviously significant.
In the end the dollar is just printed paper, much easier to replicate then the Manhattan Project and in the end much more dangerous to our security. Still I will leave it to the wise to see the truth and let the rest do what they do.
No, Bean Counter. Freedom is an abstract concept. It is not concrete, it is not physically existent like an arm. It is not an organ or a material or an energy or a Law of Nature; it is a concept which is given form by thought and intent.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Actually, the US treasury could deal with even a huge operation of this type by simply reducing the number of bills it prints itself.
In essence, North Korea is printing our bills for us for free...if they're that good a counterfeit that they're accepted for the real thing.
Well, why should we be so eager to stop them? Politically, it's awfully convenient. A perfect boogeyman -- we can blame any inflation that occurs on millions of undetectable, indistinguishable superbills circulating in the world economy, and dare anyone to prove us wrong. If the Treasury can't identify them, most banks can't either, after all.
--j_k said, his tongue planted firmly in cheek
Posts: 3617 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Freedom is the playground of thought and intent, but they do not create it, only discover its limits and shape, it is a very real thing that is shaped by nature and cicumstance and then by choice and style.
I wonder how much of our recent security measures have been a counter attack in this secret war.
1/100000, that's the SS 2005 counterfeit estimate for everybody, including the North Koreans, criminal gangs, the odd bored Kinko's clerk.
I knew there was a reason Kinko's could get away with such high prices and terrible service; they don't actually want customers! It's a FRONT.
With that said, everyone should use Minuteman Press! A more friendly solution for all your copying, binding and imaging needs! Plus, they just merged with Pony Express to provide you a convenient all-in-one solution center. Check out their webpage for a store locator.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
["Shout" impersonation on]Waaaaaaiiiiit a minute![/shout impersonation off]
Bean may be right. Lets go to war against North Korea today. It is the only way to save our economy, our freedom, and our...our...well our money.
Of course the only practical way to do that is to just pull out of Iraq right now. (Even if we started a draft to build up our army for two wars, it would take months or years to train new people, and our economy can't wait while its being financially assaulted like this.)
So BC agrees with the most liberal of the liberals and lefties of the lefties, that we need to pull out of Iraq today.
But instead of bringing our soldiers home, they should be sent immediately to Korea for a small kick-a war to "Stop the Presses"
There we will no doubt find the WMD (Weapons of Mass Duplication) that will save our society.
After all, they print up to $30,000,000 per year in our money. We should spend that per month in an ongoing war against them. It makes perfect financial sense to me.
And if our pull out of Iraq destabilizes that country, cuts more oil out of the pipelines so that oil prices spike, which actually destabilizes our economy, while NK nukes SK in retaliation, setting up waves of economic collapse in Asia that spread around the global economy, that doesn't matter because we are saving our $100 bills.
No, a full frontal assault on NK is not only called for, its inevitable.
Still, a little voice keeps whispering something in my ear.
quote: You've made the second most famous blunder. The first is being involved in a land war in Asia. The second, and nearly as famous, in never deal with a scisilian, when death is on the line.
posted
So I was right, Bean Counter? You got your billions figure out of thin air? Also, you can't have it both ways. If the Secret Service/the Fed/the Feds in general downplay the superbill crisis, it certainly therefore cannot be used as a casus belli for war against North Korea.
"Today is a day that will live in infamy. The North Koreans have done something so horrible, so evil. . . well, we can't tell you what they did. But we must invade forthwith! Trust me! They're eeeevil!"
Hardly a rallying cry.
quote:Originally posted by Bean Counter: A super bill "crisis" in the news is hardly something the Fed would want, so it is understandable that it is not bandied about, but is instead downplayed, yet the incidents are ubiquitous and obviously significant.
In the end the dollar is just printed paper, much easier to replicate then the Manhattan Project and in the end much more dangerous to our security. Still I will leave it to the wise to see the truth and let the rest do what they do.
posted
In a war with North Korea we will not need to take the lead as a ground force, we can take the support role with South Korea, We also have lots of troops in theater, we can handle both if we need to without the draft.
Japan, a very interested party, will certainly be more welcoming of the US Support Role then they have been in recent year.
The only real problem with North Korea is China, It would be nice to secure the tacit approval of China for regime change, an invasion of course would likely turn up where the bodies are buried, a bad thing for China.
Our willingness to go to war with North Korea if they refuse to stop their war on us may well force China to bring them to heal in a very quick and violent way just to keep China's secrets.
If we are willing to fight to protect our freedom against any foe, If we show that commitment and willingness to punish attacks with relentless retaliation, the fact of our determination will shape policy in every corner of the world. There will be no political action on the international stage that does not take the reaction of the United States into consideration.
Of course we must remember to show compassion to the victims and innocents in the world, all the sheep that get such a licking, Kings must fear us, but the people must look to our coming with secret hope...
posted
BC, now you show (yet again) a complete lack of knowledge...and this time it is in military matters.
All of our forces there, combined with the SK forces present, are there for one reason and one reason only....
To hold on to a beachhead for landing more forces. The projected casualty rates for a NK invasion, as of 8 years ago (and not much has changed since then), called for a 83% casualty rate of existing personnel. That estimate being the most generous.
And that was fighting defensively, in well defended positions, with support from the NK forces in place.
I know you talk out of your ass all the time, but it was nice to catch this one in real time. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:A super bill "crisis" in the news is hardly something the Fed would want, so it is understandable that it is not bandied about, but is instead downplayed, yet the incidents are ubiquitous and obviously significant.
And we know how good the media is about keeping quiet just because the government tells them to...
Posts: 87 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Of course we must remember to show compassion to the victims and innocents in the world, all the sheep that get such a licking, Kings must fear us, but the people must look to our coming with secret hope...
This could be a quote right out of an Al Queda propaganda flyer.
quote:If we are willing to fight to protect our freedom against any foe, If we show that commitment and willingness to punish attacks with relentless retaliation, the fact of our determination will shape policy in every corner of the world. There will be no political action on the international stage that does not take the reaction of the United States into consideration.
Replace the word "freedom" with "religion" and "United States" with "Al Queda" and you have a Osama Bin Laden speech.
Just replace "United States" with "Iran" or "North Korea" and you have their reasoning for building nuclear bombs and missiles.
Fear of our destructive ability will no more cower our enemies and allies than Al Queda's attempt to scare the US into turning Islamic.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
huh? Why would NK keep Chinese secrets? Heck why would they have any secrets at all? Are you suggesting there might be some "Bobi Yar" in NK with Chinese political prisoners or something? I think China itself is more then amply large enough to hide bodies.
Trust me the idea that China might keep the current NK regime in place do only to keeping state secrets is absurd, China wants NK to collapse as peacefully and quietly as possible for the Unification of the korean peninsula under a stable and friendly government and a strong economy so that they can continue to make billions of dollars off of Korean trade and more so once the heavy industry potential of NK is exploited. Also this will elininate the need of a US troops presence in Korea thus increasing Chinese national security win-win.
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posted
Gosh, Blayne, now you are also a reader of minds on distant continents, who don't speak the same language as you? Impressive trick, that. Maybe you should have posted in the 'new superpower' thread.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
What, no comments about WMD-Weapons of Mass Duplication? I worked hard for that joke.
Blayne--what secrets China might hold in Korea would involve their actions and mistakes made during the Korean War, including what became of some POW's, possible attrocities, or perhaps their role in maintaining NK's idiot dictator, or in his aquiring Nuclear Weapons. There could be many things they could be hiding.
But I doubt any of them would convice China to force a regime change.
China has shown enormous capacity for patience. The will just wait for the old coot to die.
A large American Military presence in Northern Korea, on the otherhand, would be considered a danger to the country. For any invasion of NK they would insist on any Peacekeeper troops be strictly Chinese, or possibly, a mix of Asian military (that they would dominate).
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: [QB] What, no comments about WMD-Weapons of Mass Duplication? I worked hard for that joke.
I almost put up an appreciative comment about that WMD joke this morning, but I forgot and had to go to work.
I briefly tried to think of a WMD phrase that would work, but gave up too soon.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
I highly doubt that whatever atrocities commited by Chinese Volunteer forces and the North Korean army could possibly be worse then the ones reported commited by US forces. The Chinese government is hardly going to be embarrased by anything that may have happened 50 years ago.
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posted
Bean Counter is responsible for the inventing of billions of made-up truths, while simultaneously being responsible for 87.5% of invented statistics. In twenty years, it can be demonstratable that his timeframes are as fictional as they would be in any given two-week period. Like Ann Coulter or Hitler, he would make negative personal associations a big part of his arguments against others. Like many people who support Bush's secret attempt to establish a Zionist shadow-government and revoke the Constitution, Bean Counter's positions reveal that he often supports paranoid conspiracy theories.
Lastly, that stupid jerk can't make a single argument without relying on ad hominem.Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote: Like many people who support Bush's secret attempt to establish a Zionist shadow-government and revoke the Constitution
Hee Hee... Who's Paranoid?... Hee Hee, Billions is a modest estimate considering 700,000,000 was the estimate in 94' and production has never stopped. You are welcome to look it up...
posted
Er, Bean Counter? That's sorta the point of the whole thing...for instance, "Like Ann Coulter or Hitler, he would make negative personal associations a big part of his arguments against others" intentionally makes two negative personal associations while criticizing you for it. It's funny. It's hilarious, actually.
Posts: 283 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Bean Counter: Hee Hee, Billions is a modest estimate considering 700,000,000 was the estimate in 94' and production has never stopped. You are welcome to look it up...
No, BC, it's your lame arguement, which you've provided no support for. You look it up.
If you know about an estimate from '94 it should be simple. If you cannot use search engines, provide more info, and someone else will search for it.
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EDIT - That is from the summary at the top of the page. They might pull a massive re-assessment later in the report, but I'll be damned if I'm reading that whole thing.
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