Sure this guy is in the military, but he was a translator of all things. Does it really matter if he is gay? The strange thing is there was an investigation about it, which I would think would violate the don't ask don't tell policy. I'm a rather conservative republican, and I think this is insane...I just don't see how his removal could get support from any side.
posted
No, I don't think there's any point in what happened.
Although, perhaps there was more to the story. It sounded like there were accusations of encounters going on involving jealous lovers, etc. That seems kind of far-fetched to me, but it's possible.
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posted
Sure. They don't fight good. Because their not really manly. And their always going to be hitting on all the other guys. Cause their, you know, gay.Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: Can anyone explain to me the logic of keeping gays out of the military?
Really its probably (my guess) due to the general prejudice against gays in the military.
Most soldiers would feel squeemish about living with a gay soldier. Being hit on, etc.
To me its the same logic for why they do not have coed units in the military. Men have difficulty watching women die, and women get harrased for sexual favors from the men.
Its better (at least on the surface) to just have gay soldiers keep those feelings to themselves while they are on duty, just like the average soldier is not supposed to be trying to get any action from a female while on duty.
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posted
They managed to get over their prejudice when African Americans joined the military.
And as no one should be hitting on anyone while on duty, why should it make a difference whom a soldier is refraining from harrassing?
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quote:Its better (at least on the surface) to just have gay soldiers keep those feelings to themselves while they are on duty, just like the average soldier is not supposed to be trying to get any action from a female while on duty.
Yeah, but I mean, most gay men don't run around talking about how gay they are and hitting on straight men all the time. I mean, it's not like the military expects women to deliberately uglify themselves or bind their chests or look totally manly. Because it's expected that grown men can control themselves. And hey, same goes for the women.
posted
This thread reminds me - I was watching Project Runway with my daughter the other night, and advertisements for the other shows on the network came on - Work Out, which features a gym owner complaining that her mother doesn't like her lesbian relationship, and Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. My sweet 13 year old looked at me and said "Has the whole world become gay when I didn't notice?"
I said, "Only on Bravo, dear." Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:I've been playing a lot of, uh, military bases, too. Been traveling to military bases. I've noticed this: every time I play a military base the same thing happens. We start drinking, start talking politics, and they bring up gays in the military. I always tell them the same thing: I hope they put thousands of gays in the military, hundreds of them, millions. Whoever wants to go, put 'em in there. In fact, if I'm ever in the military, I want to be in an all-gay platoon. The way I see it, if I'm in a foxhole and I've got a gun, the gay guy next to me, he has a gun. My theory is pretty simple: I want the guy covering my a** to think my a** is pretty cute. I want him fighting for more than just country here, you know what I'm saying? If I get shot, I don't want somebody to going and getting a medic, I want someone going, "They shot Louis!?" (making machine gun noises)! Yeah, see, if I'm missing in action, Chuck Norris might be be busy that week. You know, they call the volunteers to come find me, I want to hear, "Girl, we gots to go get him.
I hope that's not offensive.
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quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: kmb: You can't compare blacks to gay people becuase black people were born that way.
..... Oh wait...
Even if they are operating on the (offensive and wrong) "homosexuality is a choice and a sin" theory, since when do we keep sinners out of the military? Sabbath breakers? People who don't honor their parents? Covetors? All those are sinful and choices; none is an issue in the military. Why not?
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posted
I don't agree with people who believe that homosexuality is a sin. I am not convinced that it is not a choice, nor am I convinced that it is. I actually think it has no bearing on the debate, and I don't understand why it has become the focal point of the debate.
But I do respect the right of people to have those views.
I don't however, see the relevance of those views to whether gays should be allowed in the military or not. (In fewer words, as kmb said, even if it is a sin, so what?)
I (first) lost a lot of respect for Clinton when he settled for "Don't ask dont tell." What a moral coward.
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quote:"Has the whole world become gay when I didn't notice?"
I said, "Only on Bravo, dear."
Closer to the truth would have been, "It always was, now we have a few T.V. Networks that let us talk about it." We being people in the television viewing world.
posted
Aye, and now we have gay couples in the mainstream comic books, too! There's Colossus/Northstar in Ultimate Marvel, Hulkling/Wiccan in Young Avengers . . .
Yes, the whole world is turning gay.
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quote:Originally posted by Icarus: I don't however, see the relevance of those views to whether gays should be allowed in the military or not. (In fewer words, as kmb said, even if it is a sin, so what?)
posted
The homosexuality/sin thing is kind of a straw man isn't it? I've never seen that line of reasoning used to justify don't ask don't tell.
Edit: To answer the original topic, no I don't see any reason for this, other than the consistent application of a policy. Whether the policy is bad or not is kind of a different direction to go in.
BQT, not a straw man - just trying guess at the reasons. We've addressed the prejudice reason and the "no hooking up on duty" reason. Are there others?
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posted
So is he still with Kitty in the normal Marvel continuity? Does that make him bisexual? The romantic in me wants to know.
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quote:Originally posted by BaoQingTian: The homosexuality/sin thing is kind of a straw man isn't it? I've never seen that line of reasoning used to justify don't ask don't tell.
I am not using it as a straw man; I was addressing a separate issue. Specifically, I am not cool with saying that people who believe, for religious reasons, that homosexuality is a sin are bigots, as has been done in past threads. (Diagram that! I wanted to throw something to that effect out there before this thread went in that direction, because I thought I saw the seeds of that sentiment.
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Kate, The reasons I have most heard used have to do with unit cohesion. I'm not interested in attacking or defending the policy at all though, since I really haven't read much about it or had any experience with it.
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Joldo: The world is not turning gay. It's just that fewer and fewer of us are ashamed of who we are and we're making ourselves known. And sometimes that is reflected in art.
Homosexual relationships creep up now and then in what we watch and read... but we are drowning in heterosexual imagary. Because there's more of them than there are of us.
Het's are just weirded out by it because it's noticable. 20 years from now it will be common and boring enough that no one bats an eye. Just like no one bats an eye at all the boring het stuff inundating our senses 24/7.
posted
I think that by recruiting gay men, the macho soldiers will become more accepting and understanding - so it's only for the good.
The Israeli army doesn't have a problem with recruiting gay men to combat units, and I doubt that it ever harmed it's aptitude for combat.
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