posted
Okay, little bit of background and then I'll ask the part I need advice on.
I work at Champps Americana (anyone live near one? Food is great, but mildly overpriced), which is a sports bar/family dining restaurant. I work in the kitchen as an Expediter, which basically means I "sell" the food out of the kitchen (the back of the house) to the servers (the front of the house) and try to facilitate communication to make sure everything runs smoothly.
I started at 9.00 an hour, which was probably a dollar more than I should have, which can be credited to the fact that I got the job based on my brother's recommendation. He is a server there, and has been, off and on for something like six years. People with little to no experience (me) are supposed to start at 8.00, people with some experience start at 9.00 or above, depending.
Anyway, 6 months after I started I got a 50 cent raise to 9.50. 6 months after that, which is 6 months ago from today, I got a dollar raise to 10.50. At the meeting where the raise was discussed, my boss thought I made 11 an hour, and was shocked when I told him it was 9.50. So I got another dollar, and that took me to 10.50, where I'm at now.
So, I've worked there for 18 months, and I've gotten two raises totaling a dollar fifty. But, in that same time period about 7 other expos have been hired and fired or quit around me.
As of one month ago, we had four expos (expediters), including me. The other three were Jamie, Allie, and Joe
I found out yesterday that Joe makes 50 cents more than I do. Joe has only worked there for like 4 months, and everyone there agrees he sucks and that I am much better than him. He only worked 3 shifts a week, and frequently crashed the line (which is very, very bad).
As for the other expos: A month ago Allie quit, Wednesday was Jamie's last day, as she also quit, And yesterday we found out that Joe quit. So, over the course of a month, 3/4 of the expo staff quit, leaving just me to cover pretty much everything.
My brother found some of this out from his friend who also works at Champps and is a manager there, who thinks I should ask for a raise. My brother told me he thinks I should too. The General Manager of the place jokingly told me today "well you're it now, you should demand a raise."
Should I ask for a raise?
Pro Arguments :
- The guy who sucked made 50 cents more than I do. Isn't it fair that they pay me for superior service at least what they were willing to pay him for inferior service?
- I am in a unique position in the sense that unless I monumentally screw up or say something catastrophically bad, they can't fire me, I'm irreplaceable at the moment. And even if I weren't keeping a good, stable expo has proven very hard.
- I've never really asked for anything before. I'm in school now, coming off the summer break, and I'm going to be working more than I told them I want to, just to help them out while they are in this crunch.
Con Arguments
- I might come off looking greedy and conniving for trying to manipulate their situation into a personal gain for myself.
Yeah, that's really the only con argument, but it's important to me. They gave me a job with no experience and I am extremely thankful for that chance they took on me.
Opinions? Life experience that should be shared? What do you guys think I should do?
posted
Ask for the raise. Ask for more than that other guy got. In fact, ask for more than you think you should - who knows? They might pay it without arguing, and if you didn't ask, you definitely won't get it. Plus it gives you negotiation room.
But when you do, make sure you clearly outline why you feel you deserve it and why your performance indicates you have earned it, and include the fact that you are dealing with a much, much larger workload and will likely train any new expeditors who come along, if that's true. Anyone who's good at training is more valuable an employee.
I would be inclined to write everything up at home, preparing my arguments in the best way possible, including words that carry the most punch, before I do this. But that's me.
Leave emotional arguments out of it - it can sound like whining (and I mean this in general, not directed at you specifically).
Be polite, be respectful, but make your case.
But yes, you need to ask for a raise. Most definitely.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
My husband always reminded his boss when he felt like he deserved or needed a raise and hadn't gotten one. He usually got one. You need to ask; they're probably too busy to think of it right now.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Man - it's a tough call. I mean - on the one hand, getting three raises in 18 months is more than most people ever get. On the other hand, you are doing all the work now, and have proven yourself dependable and good.
How would you feel about your salary now if you had never learned what Joe made? Would you be happy with your present salary if you hadn't been given that information? Knowing how others do really skews our viewpoint on things.
In my department - there were four people who worked helpdesk phones in addition to regular tech/hardware work. Then one got fired, and they told the three of us we could carry it on without him. Then another one (my supervisor) was bumped off helpdesk to be full-time tech to work conversion. So now it is just two of us are on phones. And whoever is on phones has to be on-call for Saturdays, rotating. So we used to rotate between four of us, one Saturday a month. Now it's "rotated" between two of us, every-other-Saturday. With no change in pay or expectations.
But I'm happy in my job. I keep feeling like it will be noticed and rewarded next yearly review. I hope.
posted
Ask for the raise. Don't present your case based on "But Joe got paid more" though you can use it as backup in case they try to say they don't pay expeditors more than what you're making. Base your case on your steady performance, reliability, and the increased work load.
6 months ago your boss thought you were already making $11 an hour. If you should have been making $11 an hour 6 months ago you should be making at $11.50 now. Or maybe more.
If you ask for the raise, the worst that happens is they say No, and even then they'll probably say "I'd love to but it's just not in the budget right now, we'll keep it under consideration, etc." I don't think you have anything to lose by asking.
Also, you can always check around town and see what other restaurants would pay for an experienced person in your position.
quote: I am in a unique position in the sense that unless I monumentally screw up or say something catastrophically bad, they can't fire me, I'm irreplaceable at the moment. And even if I weren't keeping a good, stable expo has proven very hard.
Being irreplaceable also means you will be doing more work and have more responsibility, which is the classic justification for a raise.
It's late but that's my two cents.
Posts: 516 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote: - I am in a unique position in the sense that unless I monumentally screw up or say something catastrophically bad, they can't fire me, I'm irreplaceable at the moment. And even if I weren't keeping a good, stable expo has proven very hard.
I hate to say this to you, but I know what I am talking about, I haev spent 8 years in that business, including one place where I was doing exactally what you are during the busy weekend shifts...
No one is irreplacable. Ever. Not even a little bit.
I would still ask for the raise, even though you are currently making more than I did when I was doing the same job. I would not go into specifics about how much anyone else makes, and DO NOT mention who gave you any info on what Joe made....the person telling your brother could be fired for revealing another persons pay scale. You could say Joe told you himself, or something like that, but the main thrust of your argument should be that the other manager thought you were making 11 an hour in the past, and you feel you are worth at least that much.
I would make a case for at least that, perhaps more than that if you feel it is the right thing to ask for, but be prepared for them to say no.
Well it's been a year since I discussed this topic with you guys.
Last week I told my boss that I wanted to sit down with him before too long (an issue I'll press again in a week if not sooner), to discuss a raise.
Things have changed somewhat since the last time I approached them for a raise:
There's another expo who works about the same amount of hours that I do. And another cook who also expos during the easy shifts, early in the week in the morning. So I'm no longer close to being indispensable, but I am valuable still.
Much of the management has changed in the last year. I think we only have 2 of the 4 front of the house, and 2 of the 4 back of the house managers we used to have, and my biggest supporter left as well. It's annoying in the sense that much of the good faith I've worked on, from being a good employee to those people is gone now, but hey, that's the biz.
The GM and AGM are two that have been there since just after I got there, so I know them pretty well, and the GM, at the very least, I'm pretty sure is in my corner.
Anyway, it's been a year (almost to the day) since my last raise, and I'm still a key component of what makes the kitchen run well (or at least a reason it rarely falls off the tracks while I am there). My goal is to ask for a $1.50, but settle for $1.00 raise. My new arguments are as such, and will be given to my AGM (Assistant General Manager), Franco:
1. Two years ago when I first started working there, Brian (manager who has since left) thought I was already making $11.00 an hour when in fact I was making $9.50. It's taken me two years to get to a point where he thought I'd been all along, and that was back when I sucked at my job. There've been many since then who've made as much as or more than me just doing what I do. The argument, is about fairness. I do great work there, I help that place function and I catch a LOT of errors that get made by others, thus saving the restaurant money on a daily basis. My work should be valued as such.
2. Two or three Saturdays ago, we got slammed, and Franco knew it was coming so he stayed around to help out on the Expediter Line (Expo Line) to make sure everything went smoothly. And on the busiest night of the year thus far, all he ended up doing was sitting back and watching me work. Later he told the GM that he didn't really appreciate how good I was at what I did, until he realized how in the way he was when he tried to help, and that I rocked (more or less). I know this is only one incident, but it's recognition of very valuable skills.
3. I'm the go to guy on training new expos. The managers have told me flat out that not only am I the best expo at our Champps, they think, and this is a quote from another kitchen manager, that I could be "the best expo in the entire company." Either it's idle flattery or they really mean it, and if I'm the one they expect to be the model for all future expos, I deserve to be paid like a trainer is.
4. I've turned down job offers at other places, as recently as last month, that really offered better pay for a hell of a lot less stress, but I turned them down mostly out of loyalty. The most recent job would have probably given me $10 dollars an hour plus tip out from the wait staff, which might end up being more like $18-$20 an hour when all is said and done. I do so out of loyalty, but if it's not returned, I don't see any reason to stay. I don't want to threaten them, but I think I need to make it clear that with my experience, I'm valuable to others, and that my loyalty to them should also be rewarded.
Basically, I've put in my time. In March I'll have been there three years. From everyone I've seen come and go in that time, I know it's way past the turnover rate for most employees there. It's the highest stress job in the restaurant other than manager, and pays less than anyone other than the host stand. The hours suck, I take a ton of crap from the kitchen because they really don't like being told when they are wrong, and a lot of crap from the servers who don't like being told what to do. And I handle all of it very, very well, and with very little complaint (other than suggestions I make once in awhile, I never ever complain outright about anything to the managers). I don't flip out or lose my composure, I'm polite to everyone and in response everyone likes me back. I do my job without being a jerk, and believe me, that's more rare than you might think.
And I think all of that entitles me to, or earns me, a solid raise. I wouldn't have even gotten started on all this, but I was talking to a guy who just started working there who absolutely could not believe that I only made $11 an hour after working there for three years. I think I'm being short changed, and I think given the loyalty and services rendered to them, that such action by them is unfair, and I think it is fair to request compensation.
What do you all think?
(Edit to add: I should add that the only new "con" against me is that once a month I take a weekend off to go visit, or receive a visit from, Raia. Otherwise my availability is quite open considering a full time school schedule)
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I think after three years at a job you should really, really, be making more than $11. I don't know what your local economy is like, but if it's decent I think you should definitely ask for a raise, probably a significant one. I also think it might be ok to start investigating other jobs - there's a huge difference between $11 and $20 an hour, and I really can't see them giving you a $9 raise.
Posts: 471 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I guess I'm not sure why you didn't further explore some of your other offers. Just going to a place where you'd get tipped out seems like it'd be a big upgrade. Also, you've been doing this long enough that you should/could probably get some sort of managerial bump, right? Maybe that's something to explore.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Not that anyone is watching this thread with baited breath or anything, but I finally managed to corner my boss into meeting with me, a meeting that will take place in about ten hours.
I let you all know how it goes. I decided to ask for a $1.00 raise, and I won't really be satisfied with anything less. It doesn't seem like much to me, but it'd be a 9% pay raise, which when put that way is nothing to shake a stick at.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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The way I see it, if there's cooks at the restaurant I work at (and HOSTESSES) who make in the $14 an hour range, there's no reason why I shouldn't be paid the same. A cook provides a valuable service that requires a certain level of training. With the kind of traffic and volume we do, it takes a level of familiarity with the food, training, and personality to be a good expo too. Therefore I really don't think my position is any less important than theirs.
Well I was SUPPOSED to meet with my boss today, but he sort of snuck out during the shift change and I missed him, but I'm going to corner him sometime this week. I'm working a lot of holiday hours, and I want my pay bumped before I get my paychecks with all those hours.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Though you might want to start looking at other opportunities...perhaps with the company. You are likely getting near the top of the pay scale for your position, and need to start looking for other ways to make more money.
Perhaps you could ask your manager about possible opportunities, and see what he suggests.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
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posted
If I had decided to do that three years ago when I first got there, I'd be a supervisor by now, but I never planned on being there this long, and quite frankly, I still don't plan on being there much longer, for all the good planning does me.
Over the last couple years my boss has tried to get me to learn stations (fry, sautee, sandwich, broil, prep, and salad). When you learn a new station you usually get a pay bump, and when you learn them all, you're eligible to be a manager or supervisor (a highly paid hourly employee as opposed to salaried manager).
But, things are a bit different now. I've tried to do other jobs in the restaurant to pick up extra cash, but have recently been told they don't want me to do anything but expediting, because they can always find someone to fry or make a sandwich, but finding an competent expo has been difficult.
As far as my payscale, if they aren't going to let me make more money, then they should let me learn a new station, and if they won't do that, then I'll leave, which does them no good at all.
The problem with other restaurants in the area with expos, is that they don't pay as much, or, the ones that pay as much or more, have far less flexible hours, which is a must with my school schedule. It's something I've been thinking about, and I think if they offer to train me on a new station, for a raise, I'll take it the next time around. But I only plan on being there for another year before I can hopefully start substitute teaching. I don't see the point in leaving what is a pretty decent paying part time job (for a college student), where I'm respected and have three years of good will built up, for a year somewhere else, where I'd be at the bottom of the food chain.
But I always keep an open mind, if a well paying job elsewhere pops up, and the flexibility of hours is as good as my current job, I'll probably jump ship.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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My boss gave me one thing to work on, basically that I chat with the servers too much while I'm working. I disagree, but I'll be sure to be more attentive from now on. He said to come back in like three or four months and we'd talk again.
quote:that really offered better pay for a hell of a lot less stress
was turned down for no apparent reason. They've gotten way more than they have a right to expect from you at this point, and if there are better jobs you should jump on them.
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posted
Well, mostly now it's the hours Sean. The job with the better pay and less stress has zero flexibility in hours, and I'd probably have to go to school half time to make up for it, which does me zero good. I don't want to be in school for the next four years.
But I'm actually starting to branch out in other directions. I'm looking for tutoring/education related jobs so I can make the same or more money while at the same time putting stuff that looks good on my resume for when it comes time to start applying to high schools for a job.
There's a few online tutoring places I'm looking at, and some local learning centers. But for the flexibility in hours I get (I get to more or less make my own shedule these days, since I've been there the longest), I've yet to find anything that compares.
If I could go back and do it over again, I'd probably switch jobs to go where the money was, but at the time I really liked my bosses, and my coworkers, and had been there for awhile, and it felt like leaving would give up a LOT of time and effort spent earning trust and good will from the management staff. Now I realize that ain't worth a whole lot when they bring in an entirely new management team. But we live and learn.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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