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This thread is just an attempt to keep the Newtonmas thread from derailing. So if you don't have any strong feelings about the ideas expressed there, this thread may not be all that interesting. To be fair, so far only one person over there hasn't been able to take that idea as the goof that it was meant to be. That's why Hatrack is so great.

But, since I don't want to get into some big debate in the middle of a mainly-fluff thread, and since I want to give anyone else who might have similar feelings a place to speak out, here's another thread for the purpose. But if nobody really cares and this thread drops right off the face of the forum, I won't be at all offended.

First of all, here's the quote in question:

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Originally posted by Andrew W:
Firstly I don't think anyone's being forced to Celebrate Christmas, the worst that happens in England is that there's (mostly) no shops open, and no-one goes to work. (And this isn't even in Law, this is just people choosing not to open) I know loads of non-Christians, mainly from other religions, who don't celebrate Christmas at all.

If you feel that Newton somehow he has 'more connection' to the traditions of Christmas as in your examples, then -

When you decorate your tree and your house with beautiful lights, remember that these lights are merely pale imitations of the Glory of God, which God actually created (essentially).

When you give gifts, remember that those gifts are objects with mass within the universe. Each gift you give is acted upon by gravity (invented by God), and both the giver and the receiver are unified by their shared minuscule physical attraction to the gift being given (caused by God).

Remember that the mass of the gift, multiplied by the acceleration it achieves as you hand it to its intended recipient, equals the force at which the gift is delivered. Approximately, what with Newtonian mechanics actually being 'wrong' so to speak.

And yes, I appear to be being facetious. Sorry about that.

"If you're not a Christian, or if you are a Christian and you're tired of seeing Jesus' memory trodden on by this increasingly profane and sacrilegious holiday, join me. This is the place to compose poems or songs about Isaac Newton, share stories of his life and how it has influenced yours, or just enjoy the alternate holiday cheer."

Yeah, this whole 'profane and sacreligious' thing just has a real ring of Oliver Cromwell to it. Profane how? Sacreligious how? And it's definitely not because lots of the 'traditions' aren't anything specifically to do with Jesus, because that could at the very worst be described as irrelevant. No one when they put up a Christmas tree, or eat a Yule log etc, is in any way worshipping Thor or some Pagan deity. That would be, for Christians, sacreligious. But it's not happening.

Personally while not offended by this, I do think it's, a bit sad, I hope that if I'd grown up in a Muslim or Jewish country I wouldn't have made up Chanu-Jesus-ca, or Eid(JESUS!).
Live and let live neh?

AW

AW

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To begin, the whole "Newtonmas" idea wasn't meant as a backlash against Christianity. It was, first and foremost, intended as a bit of a larf. It's not as though I intend to start any kind of cultural revolution based on my goofy fluff thread (although I must admit I'd like to see the look on Bill O'Reilly's face if he ever got wind of it.)

I really don't want to get into a big debate about the merits of Christmas. I could, but I don't think this is a real issue here, and I don't want to make it into an issue over a single post. So I'll just make a couple things about my intentions clear.

First, when I referred to Christmas as it is celebrated today as a "profane and sacrilegious holiday", the two adjectives aren't synonyms. Profane is more irreligious or secular. Most of the examples Andrew pointed out are in the profane category. There are elements of modern Christmas that can be viewed as sacrilegious, but I'm sure they don't need explaining.

Second, anything non-neutral in that other thread that contained the letters "C-H-R-I-S-T" was referring to Christmas, not Christianity or Christ. My little fluff thread wasn't intended to seriously advocate a religious worship of Isaac Newton. It was also not intended to slam anyone's beliefs nor to discourage the gathering of families on this or any other day of the year.

That's all for now. If anyone has any serious beefs with either Christmas, or with my alleged disrespect to those who celebrate it, feel free to express them here. If not, excellent. Have a wonderful day with your families and friends, and enjoy any holiday you may happen to be celebrating today. Best wishes all.

Posts: 563 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Well unfortunately I posted the following on your other thread already, sorry

But even more unfortunately it's not so related to what you've quoted of mine but more to the responses people posted, so although I was going to delete it and move it to here, I'm just going to copy it here, and continue the discussion wherever people choose to respond to it.
Also, to your comments about the profane, I disagree, for reasons I'll give later, but I don't have time right now

Quoting me :-

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Paul Goldner-

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"Live and let live neh?"

Yes. This is the whole problem. At least in the US, it is not possible to go through december without being bombarded by christmas. If you guys kept it to yourselves, that would be "live and let live," but you don't... christmas is thrust upon me every year.

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Firstly, it may well be different in the US, but here the only people bombarding you with the existence of Christmas are the shops, and if you don't like the capitalism, either campaign against it or move somewhere communist
I don't think I've ever had Christmas mentioned to me by anyone religious. What would they say anyway? "Are you celebrating Christmas this year? You'd better! God's watching!"? That seems very odd.

As someone said (approx) "What's with the lack of lightheartedness, what are you, addicted to the contentiousness". Yes, I'm cool with the lightheartedness, but when people say things like "christmas is thrust upon me every year", how can I do anything but respond, "thrust how? Gunpoint?"
As some atheist once said when some Christians were complaining that they were "oppressed" by modern society, "If I was in charge, I'd show you real oppression". In that vein, unless you have some surprising experiences that you haven't mentioned yet, I doubt you're really suffering from any real experience of being forced to celebrate Christmas.

Eduardo St. Elmo:

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Nah, 'live and let live' means doing only things you love (as much as you can anyway), spreading love amongst your fellow men and (most importantly) forego on forcing others to do the same as you if they do not love those things.

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I'm not sure if you're saying that you have been forced to do these things, but if you are, again I'd contend that you don't really know what it is like to be actually forced. Unless, as said, you have some horrible experiences you want to share with us.
And (yes, I'm sorry it's really pedantic) actually 'live and let live' has nothing whatsoever to do with "spreading love amongst your fellow men".

AW

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