posted
Below is a message I am thinking of sending to my mom. Does it sound ok? I don't really feel like going into details, which I know doesn't help in proofing. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks!
quote: Mom,
I have been frustrated for a long time. I haven't been able to find a way to talk to you without hurting your feelings. I am having a hard time writing this without crying (ok, so I am failing at that). It hurts me (and our relationship) each time you say derogatory things about what my husband is (or isn't) doing. I feel like you disapprove of me everytime you disapprove of my husband. I am sure you kept a great house when Andy and I were kids. I am also reasonably sure that with Phil's work schedule he was around at times to watch us while you did some of the work around the house. I know you cry over the way I live, but I am happy. I wish you could be happy knowing that. There are times I don't look forward to talking with you or seeing you because I know you will say something that will hurt me or make me angry. I apologize if I hurt your feelings. I just needed to get this out before anymore of it builds up.
posted
I think it looks as fine as is Mama Squirrel.
The one thing I would suggest is a paragraph break or two - maybe one before "I am sure you kept a great house..." and another one before " I know you cry over..."
I hope things work out for you and your mother.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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My editing advice is: read tomorrow and do not send. I have tried the letter to family member thing a couple of times, and it has backfired so strongly that "not sending" has become my advice in cases like this. If the person is so clueless that they do not understand that they are hurting you, they will most likely opt for one of these options:
1)(tearfully): "I just don't understand, I am so hurt." or 2)Come back at you with further hurtful comentary.
I am sorry, but I cannot support the letter to family. As my dad says, a person rarely reads a letter in the spirit it's writ.
I sent an email to my dad a few weeks back about some issues between us regarding his partner. It has immensely helped the situation.
I don't think my Dad knew the impact his actions were having on me. Now he does, he is a lot more considerate of how I am feeling - which helps me, and helps the whole messy situation.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
In that case, I would suggest being there when the mother reads the letter so she can respond in the moment. I still say not to send, and I think you were lucky, Imogen.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Mama Squirrel, Just from the tone of your email, it sounds like you have a loving, but complicated, relationship with your mom. Being able to communicate openly with her seems to me to be worth the risk of hurting her feelings for a short time in order to preserve your relationship. If she loves you, and is truly trying, in her own mind, to make sure you are happy, then shes' got to accept your firm rebuttal of her negativity. I think your email conveys that without being overly accusatory. Good luck no matter what you decide.
Posts: 499 | Registered: Mar 2004
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I admire your courage and desire to work through the problem rather than letting it poison the relationship.
Since you're so loving and such a good Mom, I assume that your Mom has many of those qualities. She probably think that she's helping you, when she's actually hurting you. Maybe you could add a section that tells her how to mother you now.
I could be completely off-base here, but I know so many empty nest Moms who meddle in their childrens' lives because they need to feel needed and don't know any other way to insinuate themselves into the daily lives of their kids. The odd thing is that they love and are proud of their kids when talking to friends and strangers, but act like judge and jury when talking to the kids directly.
Posts: 2425 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I agree with Elizabeth. I tried writing a letter like that to my mother before Christmas. Luckily it didn't hurt our relationship,she sent a very nasty reply which I decided to ignore and that was the end of it. But it didn't stop any of the things I was hoping to stop. I don't know if there's anyway to write this kind of letter that people will take well.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I had very good luck with such a letter about 7 years ago. My parents both reacted in a hostile way upon first reading (so they told me--I wasn't there) but it kind of planted a seed, and eventually we ended up with a much better relationship than we would have had had I not gotten the ball rolling. It seems well said to me--I say send it.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Waiting a day is always sound advice - often, I think of a different way to say something that seems to get at the point in a more clear and non-judgemental or combative way.
Connie, I think you know what is best for you and I applaud your taking the time to think about what you want to say, and how you want to say it. I have had both written and spoken "boundary setting" communications with family members before - sometimes it is successful and sometimes it is not. I have learned to be a little more content with just concentrating on keeping my side of the fence clean . . . not easy to do!
posted
I agree that it needs to be said, but I do think it is better said in person or over the phone. It would be hard to do, but maybe it is better then to be simple, firm, and stick to two themes (your main issue, and that you love her). She'll almost undoubtedly react badly, but you can deal with it then.
I've had a rocky relationship with my dad, and letters made things worse (BOTH ways), but a very frank talk made things much better.
Posts: 20 | Registered: Dec 2004
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My advice would be similar to above -- before you send anything, sleep on it. Consider carefully whether you want to do this in writing, over the phone, or in person. And if you do send it, I'd add at least one paragraph break so it reads more easily.
Good luck, sweetheart, regardless of what you decide.
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Thank you for your thoughts and suggestions. I think I will send it (with a few changes), but I will snail mail it. That was Pop's suggestion (he was at the Shinda at rivka's house when I wrote it, but he did read it).
Posts: 399 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I agree with the other suggestions made, but think perhaps a slight addition. A little honey with the medicine.
If you are going to send the letter via snail mail, make it a complete letter. Include newsy stuff about the little ones, and the good part of life in general. Then, take a deep breath and plunge on: Now, Mother, I really need to talk about the part of our relationship that isn't working so well...
It's important not to diminish the impact of what you need to say, but including it as part of an overall communication about your (good) life will allow your mom to perceive it as an attempt to improve the way you deal with each other.
How courageous of you to try to mend the problem, rather than just putting up with the negative stuff.
Posts: 230 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
It's kind of funny that the first time I ever mentioned the issue to anyone aside from discussing it with my wife was with ketchupqueen and rivka at the Shinda this past weekend, possibly at the same exact time Mama was writing the e-mail.
I've reconsidered the snail-mail thing, because that leaves us wondering day by day whether or not Mom received it. Basically, we won't know until (and unless) she brings it up. E-mail is a concern, because we both think it possible that Mom may respond to it before she really has a chance to read and think about it. Phone call is dangerous because Mama will cry, which makes it tougher. In person is dangerous because chances are either that she would be staying at our house or we would be staying at hers. She's a little too far away for an afternoon visit.
There have been numerous times in the past when I considered writing Mom the same letter. "Dear mom, I don't know if you're aware of how these comments make your daughter feel, but...." Maybe it's pessimistic of me, but every time I thought of writing it I also doubted that it would make much of a difference.
I've really been at a loss. It was also kind of funny to me, because I've been told so many times that the "typical male response" to such situations is to offer advice, when "what the woman really wants" is support and understanding. After reading a couple sentences of the e-mail, I went over and gave Mama a hug. She told me she wasn't looking for consolation -- she wanted advice. *sigh with a "whatcha gonna do?" smile*
Specific response to Doc -- I'm not sure how to add "newsy" stuff in there. Mom calls at least three times a week, so she hears it before she could get the letter anyway. *smile*
Of course, Mama may already have written and sent the snail-mail by now, so I'm just getting junk off my chest. *sigh again*
quote: It's kind of funny that the first time I ever mentioned the issue to anyone aside from discussing it with my wife was with ketchupqueen and rivka at the Shinda this past weekend, possibly at the same exact time Mama was writing the e-mail.
I noticed that, and chalked it up to you and Mama being so in sync. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote: E-mail is a concern, because we both think it possible that Mom may respond to it before she really has a chance to read and think about it. Phone call is dangerous because Mama will cry, which makes it tougher. In person is dangerous because chances are either that she would be staying at our house or we would be staying at hers. She's a little too far away for an afternoon visit.
I suggest making making MS "unavailable" for a few days after her mother gets the email. Answer the phone for her, and if it's her mother, tell her that she can't come to the phone. Give her a week to calm down before letting them talk.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I sent the message via snail mail on Friday. Here is the final version.
quote: Mom,
I have been frustrated for a long time. I haven't been able to find a way to talk to you without hurting your feelings. I am having a hard time writing this without crying (ok, so I am failing at that).
It hurts me (and our relationship) each time you say derogatory things about what Michael is (or isn't) doing. I feel like you disapprove of me every time you disapprove of my husband. I know you cry over the way I live, but I am happy. I wish you could be happy knowing that.
There are times I don't look forward to talking with you or seeing you because I know you will say something that will hurt me or make me angry. I apologize if I hurt your feelings. I just needed to get this out before any more of it builds up.
I love you.
Love,
Connie
P.S. I would prefer to keep this correspondence in writing for now. If you want to move it to e-mail that would be o.k. with me.
I received the following e-mail response today.
quote: First, thank you for the pics and Cub stubs.
Second, I'm glad you wrote the letter. I am so very sorry I've hurt you, and I'm usually sorry right after I couldn't stop myself from saying something. I just hate to see your childhood dream of being a stay at home Mom go unfulfilled. Maybe that's basically at the root of all this. OK, so I can't write this without crying, either. Must run in the family.
You say you are happy, so I will have to let that be enough for me. Your life isn't my life and my approval or disapproval isn't important. Every parent's dream is for their kids to be happy in life, so if you are, I am glad for you. I did the best I knew how and will have to be quiet from now on.
As I have told you, I am proud of your accomplishments with school and success with work as an adult, and you are a very good mom to your two wonderful boys.
If I come the weekend of your birthday, I'd like to take you shopping for clothes or whatever you'd like for your birthday gift, so please give it some thought. I'd also like to start taking Carl out for lunch each time I'm there so we can have some Grandma/grandson time together if that's OK. When Timmy is older, I'd like to do that separately with him also, as I think that's important. I remember you telling me you were glad that I spent time separately with you as you were growing up and not always having our whole family along.
After I hear from Harriet, I'll see if Andy and Laura are available for dinner an evening that weekend so we can celebrate your birthday and Michael's. With the traffic and general environment getting worse, I really don't want to make that trip alone.
Love, Mom
I haven't had a chance to really digest it yet. Thank you all for your thoughts.
Posts: 399 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I'm glad it seems to have turned out well for you. Here's to a better relationship for both you and your mother!
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Okay, all y'all obviously don't have a mother like Mama has. I read that as yet another full body slam. Maybe it's just me.
If it makes you feel any better Mama, I was thinking about this thread today and meant to come and bump it with a post. I wish your mother could actually be happy for you, but sometimes you need to just let things go that you can't control and deal with the icky stuff for the sake of your sons.
This is the part that I hope makes you feel better.
My mother is the same way, only not with my or my sister, but with my brother's wife. He works full-time and she's the stay-at-home mom who isn't good enough. You have no idea how many times I've heard about my poor brother slaving away all day (he's a vice president in a bank for heaven's sake ) and how he comes home and has to pick up the toys, or how she doesn't even cook dinner half the time and he has to go out to McDonald's to get dinner. Or the fact that she gets so sleep in on the weekends and he has to get up with the kids. Or how her mother watches the kids at least one day a week while she's out goofing off. And my brother has to watch the kids at night so she can go do scrap booking or whatever else dumb thing she is doing instead of being a good wife/mother.
So your mom isn't alone in disapproval of how well a spouse can take care of the kids/house. Your mother is just stuck in 1950s America where moms stay at home and dads work. It's like being a racist, only with gender roles. Maybe she'll come around eventually.
But the whole "I just hate to see your childhood dream of being a stay at home Mom go unfulfilled," is just another twist of the knife, at least from my point of view. It's too bad she can't see Moose for the great father/husband that he is.
(Are you really happy? Or does she make a point? If so, you might tell her that while she was lucky enough to be able to stay at home, those circumstances aren't true for you and while you are doing what's right for your family, her constantly rubbing salt in the wound isn't helping. Maybe she'd be more supportive. If she can't, the next time she makes a comment, ask her if she's like to replace your income so you could stay at home. If not, tell her to butt out.)
I'll delete this post if you'd like.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I am sorry, but I have to agree with Kayla. It has a passive aggressive bent to it to me. However, she acknowledged it, took some responsibility for her actions, and was honest in saying that your happiness, if not her idea of what your happiness should be, will have to suffice.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Mama Squirrel, I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your mother's letter. I hope I haven't hurt your feelings.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:You have no idea how many times I've heard about my poor brother slaving away all day (he's a vice president in a bank for heaven's sake ) and how he comes home and has to pick up the toys, or how she doesn't even cook dinner half the time and he has to go out to McDonald's to get dinner. Or the fact that she gets so sleep in on the weekends and he has to get up with the kids.
My dad does the same thing with my brother and sister-in-law. It's sad/hilarious to me to hear my dad talk about how my sister-in-law really isn't that great of a housekeeper, because that's EXACTLY what my grandmother says/said about my own mother and it ALWAYS ticks me off. Unsurprisingly, my grandmother has a poor relationship with me, and my dad has a poor relationship with his grandchildren. Can't they see that the grandkids are NOT going to side with a grandparent against one of their beloved parents?
Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Not a problem Shigosei. As I said I hadn't digested it yet. One thing Pop pointed out last night is that she mentioned everyone except him. She mentioned me, our sons, my brother and his wife (who my mom disapproved of for a long time when they first got married). I do find that highly ... interesting.
My mom doesn't know how to hold her tongue. I remember her saying derogatory things about my father in front of me. He was always late with child support (he really didn't have much money and gave when he could). She didn't "need" it anyway. She was married to a doctor.
She gives our kids a lot of things (clothes, toys, etc.). The clothes are helpful, but they have more toys than they need. Sometimes I think she thinks that means she can have some control over our lives.
I am trying to give her the benefit of the doubt on the letter. We will have to see how it goes. Maybe she will watch her tongue more. And maybe she won't pat my belly next time we see her to let me know that I have some weight that I could lose (it happens every time we see her now).
Oh, by the way, my last post was my 100th post. It only took me 2 years and 4 months to do it! Posts: 399 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Oh, I'm sorry about the appearance comments. My dad does the same thing - it lessened when I started throwing a fit and then bursting into tears every time. It's not nice to do and it's uncomfortable for everyone, but nothing else was worked.
Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
I'm sorry you're having to go through this.
I must say that my first thought in reading her note was the same as Pop pointed out - she never mentions him (except for the passing reference to celebrating your birthdays together). It seemed a little harsh to me to talk about about how proud she is of you and what a good mom you are and say absolutely nothing about Michael. Since I don't know her, I have no idea if this omission was intentional or not. I really hope not.
I also really hope she'll knock off the patting your belly thing. As someone who is really sensative about their weight, I can't possibly imagine how hurt I would feel if either of my parents did that.
*big hugs to all the Mooses*
Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Sometimes it's frustrating to deal with someone who hurts you while simultaneously caring about you. If someone says something hurtful and you know they don't care about you, you can tell them to stick it in their eye.
But when you deal with someone who says "I love you, I love you" as they hit you over the head with a bat, it's hard to know how to deal with that.
I struggle with this too, and I tell myself that everyone shows love in different ways and maybe that's what my mother is doing. It sucks because I know that what's best for ME is probably to be out of contact with my mother for a long, long time, but that may not be fair to her.
Oh wait, this isn't about me.
I hope things work out for you.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
All right I'm going to ammend my previous comment. If I got this letter from *my* mother or grandmother I'd be thrilled.
Yes I'd notice the ommisions. However any admission of "not being absolutely right about everything" would be huge progress in my own family. I would look at the ommissions as the ways they chose to save face by pretending for the moment they didn't exist.
Also to my understanding Moose and Squirrel wouldn't mind if their roles were reversed to the more traditional way, however, for their family at this time, it just isn't practical. But that is the other vibe I was getting. It seems as if her mother knows Squirrel would like to stay home with the children and is fixating on that, rather than the practical and financial constraints of doing what is best for the needs of the family unit rather than perhaps the personal wants (not needs) of an individual family member.
So I guess it depends on how willing at all she normally is at making even mild offers or concessions. For my family this would be *huge* progress, but how big a step it actually is, depends on the woman writing it.
posted
Mama, I'm sorry I didn't read your mother's letter in a more understanding light. I read it as if it were my mother... My mom is so inoffensive that it would take an act of God to get her to be cruel. (There are downsides to this...she also is so inoffensive she doesn't stand up for herself when she should.)
I see what Kayla's saying though, and apologize. That would hurt a lot.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
See, if you were used to this type of parent, you would see what could happen next. Moose gets a fabulous job at twice Mama's current salary and Mama quits her job to be a stay at home mom and her mother's next comments go something like this.
"Are you sure it's wise to quit your job? What if your husband loses his job, or drops dead of a heart attack, or divorces you? You will be left alone to raise two children with job skills that are out of date. The thing I regret the most is when I let my (insert random skill) lapse. When I needed to (or "If I had ever needed to) find a job, I'd have had no skills and would have ended up in some minimum wage job. You really need to keep your options open."
And being the paranoid that I am, I'm of the belief that given the opportunity, she will use the information that the kids give her while out on their "lunches" will be used against you. "Oh, really, daddy let's you (insert something harmless)?" "Oh, mommy and daddy were fighting last night?" My son has been trained (poorly, but we're still working on it) not to talk about me or his father with my family. He's not allowed to talk about movies he's seen or what he eats or anything we say to him. But hey, at least we let them see him.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
"And maybe she won't pat my belly next time we see her to let me know that I have some weight that I could lose (it happens every time we see her now)."
Mama Squirrel, I recently alomost died. My aunt drove three hours up and back from NYC to see me in the hospital. Now, she takes the opportunity of my recovery, which involves physical therapy, which involves exercise, to point out how fat i am, and how I really should do my exercizes. When I was nine months pregnant with my son, she said: "How are you feeling? Tired and heavy? Well, after the baby is born, don't you think it's time for you to lose some weight?"
posted
Ya know, Kayla, that sounds exactly like what my almost-ex and his parents try to pull. Fortunately my 11 year old has figured out that what she tells Gramma about the things we do almost always gets twisted and abused, so she has begun to edit. And the 7 year old is just indecipherable enough where they seem to place absolutely no stock in anything she says.
Mama, I do see how the response from your mother could be a good thing, but I too see quite a bit of double-talk and derision in there. Sounds to me like your mother is one of those people for whom nothing is ever right unless it's absolutely her way, which means that she'll never accept Papa for who he is and what he does no matter what. He could be elected president or become CEO of a major corporation and she'd likely still have a gripe against him. And that's not something you can ever change.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
E, I once had a well-meaning relative tell me that I should make sure I always stay beautiful so that my husband will always love me. She said she would hate for him to leave me if I choose to let my body be wrecked by pregnancy.
That's a real heartening thing to say to a nineteen-year-old newlywed with her first baby on the way. Scared me TO DEATH.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Just to show some contrast, here's an excerpt from an e-mail that came from Mama's dad and stepmom today:
quote:Mike, you should bottle your child rearing skills as they look (and are) so happy! God Bless you - we appreciate the effort you both put into raising them.
I love Mama's mom, and I know she wants the best for her and her family. Unfortunately, I don't think she believes that I am the best for them, and as others have suggested, I'm not sure of what could change her mind on that. If the only way she can keep from digging at me is the "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all" method, well then that's what we'll live with. I think she was worried about becoming unimportant in our lives, and so has tried to make herself needed. What I don't think she's realized yet (though maybe she's getting there now) is that if she makes it a choice between me and her, Mama will choose me. She'll avoid the choice as long as possible, but that'd be her call.
posted
Big hugs and good thoughts for mama, and also for everyone in this thread who has relatives who comment on their weight. I like Tom's approach. Find something unappealing about them. Twist the knife.
Oh dear... that probably wasn't very good advice for family harmony. Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
You know what, ElJay? It is even worse when you lose weight. Then all stops are removed, and you get to hear aboput how fat you were.
Argh. Which just made me think that of Mama S does get to a pont where she is home and pop is working, she might hear the same kind of stuff. i sure hope not. The sad part is, they really do think they are doing what they do out of love.
[ January 12, 2005, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
It's part of my job to talk about weight with patients. I don't really like it but I have to do it. And I do it calmly and rationally and educate. What I don't like is when patients turn around and critique my weight or appearance in turn. Maybe it's a defense mechanism, I don't know. But hey. I see 20 patients a day, most patients only have 1-3 doctors total. Doesn't seem fair to me. My family at least has been taught not to say anything.
Posts: 1990 | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Theca, that's shocking to me. Of course it's a doctor's job to address a patient's weight problem. I have gained weight from the fertility treatments and it's been very difficult for me. My doctor and nurses have been very candid with me about how much I can expect to gain and how long it will take to get off (a really long time, especially when I get pregnant). I have really appreciated their candor and would never expect anything less.
Mama S, I have major weight issues with my mother, too. She is much, much better about it now because she finally understands that it's a side effect from the treatments. And because I will not talk to her anymore if she gives me grief. She was a model in the 70s and thinks that Calista Flockhart has the perfect body. Once, when I was 14, we went bathing suit shopping. I picked out a lavender and blue bikini that was extremely trendy and expensive. It was a size 0 - I weighed 102 lbs and was 5'4''. My mother said, "I'll buy it for you, but you have to promise not to gain any weight." Geez Lousie!
Mothers and daughters. Sigh.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
MS, I think that that letter, although it wasn't perfect, was as much as you coul;d have hoped for, and it seems like she took it really well....
Much better than you had been fearing, right?
So take it at face value, for now...adn if she continues then you can mention it to her, and say that you have brought it up before.
posted
Pop, I think that it's kind of funny that your dad-in-law is supportive of you while your mother-in-law seems almost.. I don't know, in competition?
Mike and Connie, Please forgive my bluntness, but from my angle, it looks like like Connie's step dad recognizes and appreciates how hard it is to be involved in the daily life of the kids and how valuable it is to have both parents involved in the kids development. Connie's mom does seem to be trying to impose her own ideals of what it takes to be happy on Connie. I'm sure she realizes that if Connie had to make a choice between the two of you, she'd choose you. This choice doesn't reflect the way her first marriage went and I doubt that she can even understand that your family is happy and that Connie is happy because Connie's requirements for happiness are different from hers and Connie's requirements are being fulfilled.
This happiness and love are the most important things for you guys. Don't let ANYONE, not even your extended family try to convince you that you aren't happy. You're the only ones who get the full benefit of those gifts and you're the only ones who get to judge them.
quote:I remember you telling me you were glad that I spent time separately with you as you were growing up and not always having our whole family along.
I don't read this as an attempt to manipulate or to hurt. I read this as a displaced/insecure mom trying to relive something she did well.
posted
Theca, I can't imagine a patient saying that to a doctor! My doctor is very candid, and discusses my family health history, etc. He also knows I know this, and that it is hard nonetheless.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Me too.....I really think that her letter showed some really good signs.
At the least she can't say she didn't now it was hurting you if she does it again. The fact that you had the courage to tell her means more than the actual world spoken, I think.
Thanks God I get along with my in-laws, my mouthier-in-law in particular. She is even real..she met a TON of Hatrackers at the WMASS Picnic this past summer!
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) and how he comes home and has to pick up the toys, or how she doesn't even cook dinner half the time and he has to go out to McDonald's to get dinner. Or the fact that she gets so sleep in on the weekends and he has to get up with the kids. Or how her mother watches the kids at least one day a week while she's out goofing off. And my brother has to watch the kids at night so she can go do scrap booking or whatever else dumb thing she is doing instead of being a good wife/mother. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
It's too bad she can't see Moose for the great father/husband that he is. ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
