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Author Topic: Harry Potter Book 7 on 7-21-07
Mig
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,249320,00.html
Too excited for words.

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MidnightBlue
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Psst. [Wink] [Razz]
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Ron Lambert
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quote:
The fifth film, "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix," is scheduled to come out July 13, just eight days before the final book's release.
So now we have the dates for the fifth movie, and for the publication of the final book.

The article states the book will be over 600 pages. That is not surprising. It will have to be pretty long, because there are a lot of plot threads to be tied up.

I wonder who the two characters will be that are killed off. Losing Draco and Lucius Malfoy would be no great loss. But if J.K. Rowling really intends to end the Harry Potter series once and for all, that would almost require that Harry Potter himself be killed off--otherwise new sequels would always be possible.

And of course we still wonder if Professor Dumbledore is really killed off for good, or only just slightly dead, waiting for Miracle Max to revive him (sorry, mixed fantasies). But it would really be cheating if Dumbledore comes back from the dead, only to be killed off again.

That wart, Peter Pettigrew, is long overdue for extinction. Maybe he'll get caught in a giant mousetrap.

I would most hate to see Hermione Granger bite the dust--of all the characters, I like her the best.

It is possible that Neville Longbottom could die fighting Barty Crouch Jr. and the Lestanges, since they are the ones who tortured Neville's parents to the point they were driven mad. An obsessive desire for vengeance could lead him to bite off more than he can chew.

Just trying to figure out what would be irresistable logic to the author.

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aspectre
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Hermione. Writers can't resist killing off women to "provide motive" for the protagonist to act.

[ February 01, 2007, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by aspectre:
Hermione. Writers can't resist killing off women to "provide motive" for the protagonist to act.

Then it would be even better to kill of Ginny since Harry saved her life before. His failure to do so now, and the fact he closed a happy relationship with her because he wanted to protect her from just such a fate would be a far more juicy irony for at least this reader.

Hermione can't die until her relationship with Ron is normalized, so she is safe until that happens IMO.

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Christine
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I don't think Harry needs any more motivation to kill the bad guys. Voldemort killed his mom and dad, Belatrix killed his godfather, and Snape killed Dumbledore.

As for the two characters...I would guess that she means two characters other than Voldemort. (I am assuming he will die by the end...who he takes down with him is of far more interest to me.)

I'll give Rowling this much...she's got me scared for the lives of EVERY character, including Harry, Ron, and Hermoine.

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Shanna
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I would upset if Draco died. I want to see someone rebel and break free from that insanity. Lucius needs to rot in a cell somewhere.

My guesses are Snape and someone from the Weasley family.

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RunningBear
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GOOOODDDDDDAAAAARRNNNIITTT!!!!!!!

I leave for basic July 17!!!!!


OOOOHHHHhhhhhhhh........

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Me, Myself, and I
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In regards to Dumbledore somehow coming back, Rowling said (in the link above) that she has already done her grieving for the character, so that when she wrote his death, it was not as hard for her. This sounds like someone who really has killed off Dumbledore (though I guess it's possible she is referring to her grieving over his 2nd death [Wink] )
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Fyfe
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I don't think Dumbledore's coming back. It has been demonstrated in the series that the dead people don't come back; and Rowling has said on a number of occasions that Dumbledore really is dead. She said it to Salman Rushdie when he asked her about it. She wouldn't have lied to Salman Rushdie.
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Christine
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In another interview she specifically says that Dumbledore is truly dead and not coming back...I think I read it on www.mugglenet.com.

Even aside from her saying so, I thought the book was pretty clear. Rowling has not been in the habit of resurrecting dead characters. Death is final. Also, from a plot standpoint Dumbledore needs to be dead. Harry has relied on others up until now, but in the last book (the climax) he has to take the lead in killing Voldemort. Any help he has (and he surely will have help) must come from people who follow him rather than people he follows. If you haven't noticed, she's been slowly killing off his support structure all along...first his parents (and she didn't give him nice foster parents), then Serius, then Dumbledore.

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Ron Lambert
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Christine, it might be argued that Voldemort returned from the dead--although there is the quibble that he didn't really die, because he had split his soul (or whatever) into seven horcruxes. So actually Voldemort is still going to need to be killed seven more times.

I agree with you, Shanna. I think Lucius Malfoy is the most offensive character, with the way he trashes the Muggle-born as "Mudblood"--even saying it to Hermione. Then of course there is the whole aristocratic snobbery involved in his dissing of decent people like the Weasleys.

And Christine, since as you pointed out, there has been a systematic dismantling of Harry's support structure, isn't it likely that at some point he would be strongly tempted to turn toward the dark side, like Voldemort? I'm not saying he would choose that, only that he would face a strong temptation that he has to overcome.

R.K. Rowling so far has not had anybody who was clearly good turn bad, that I can recall. Tom Riddle, who became Voldemort, seems to have been born bad. Snape was presented as someone who was bad then choose to turn good--but was he really, especially since now he has killed Dumbledore, which seems pretty bad. Unless Dumbledore wanted him to do it for whatever reason. I am still very curious about the character of Snape. (The actor who plays him in the Harry Potter movies is delightful--I loved him in Galaxy Quest, too.)

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Christine
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quote:
And Christine, since as you pointed out, there has been a systematic dismantling of Harry's support structure, isn't it likely that at some point he would be strongly tempted to turn toward the dark side, like Voldemort? I'm not saying he would choose that, only that he would face a strong temptation that he has to overcome.
I think this is very likely, actually! In fact, I have noticed that Harry (and some of the reading public) have failed to understand what Dumbledore has been trying so hard to teach him -- the power he has that Voldemort does not have is the capacity to love. Harry demonstrated his failure to understand this, IMHO, when he dumped Ginny at the end of book 6. I think she may even be a key in his eventual understanding. I doubt seriously that Harry will end up evil, but I do think that the temptation will be there.

As for Voldemort "coming back" it's like you said..he was never really dead. They said that from book 1. He took incredibly evil and extreme measures to ensure he did not die. Dumbledore didn't do that. He didn't even do what his friend Nicholas did with the Philosopher's Stone (although that only extended life -- I always had the impression that Nicholas could have been killed).

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blacwolve
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Not to mention that dumping Ginny was incredibly stupid. Regardless of whether he's actually dating her, her death will still hurt him. And since they've been openly dating for a month, Voldemort is going to find out he loves her. That plotline drives me crazy.
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breyerchic04
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She's not just killing off two people! She is killing off two people she didn't plan to kill off when she started writing this book, she is also leaving one alive that was to die in the outline.

I do have guesses as to who one of the two extra people she is killing, and the one she is leaving alive, but it's too hard to guess who all will die.

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Shanna
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quote:
If you haven't noticed, she's been slowly killing off his support structure all along...first his parents (and she didn't give him nice foster parents), then Serius, then Dumbledore.
I had a theory once that we would see some serious bloodshed in the last book. I used to wonder if anyone would be left at the end. I couldn't imagine anything more depressing than Harry being victorious in the end but losing all his friends during the battle. After the thing with Sirius, I knew Rowling wasn't going to hold back and play nice.
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Narnia
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My 'bet you $100' prediction is that Snape will die to save Harry. I think it's the only way that Harry will be convinced that Snape is on Dumbledore's side all along. Unfortunately, we have to deal with Harry's "I hate Snape" angst until that happens.

I believe that many more than two important characters will die. I'm predicting a Weasley parent, a Weasley child, one of Harry's foster family, an important professor (again), and at least one of Harry's jeesh (besides the Weasley kid.) That's....5 so far. Not even counting Snape or Voldemort.

Yeah, I don't have a very optimistic outlook. However, I don't believe she'll kill Harry.

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Lyrhawn
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Spoilers, obviously.

Snape dying to save Harry would create an interesting emotional dilemma for Harry. I'd almost like to see it just to see how she has him react. After YEARS of hating him, believing that he killed Dumbledore, all the hatred and anger he's poured into their odd relationship, to have THAT be the way that Snape dies, that would really have to rock Harry's world, especially since Harry puts so much weight on his own judgement, believing at times it to be superior to Dumbledore's, or anyone else's.

I think it would advance him, as well as crack him, emotionally in many ways. I like Snape though, I really think he's a good guy, but for that reason, I also want him to die. McGonagal is the only professor I have an interest in seeing spared, as I've always liked her the most, despite the cool guest profs that have been through the DADA revolving door.

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Joldo
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I'm putting a bet down on Hagrid. Just major enough for his death to be a major source of emotional drama, while not being so major that she couldn't bear to kill him. Neville's a good casualty as well.

I think the core trio are safe, simply because losing one of them loses a major aspect of the book. It would fall apart a bit after that, lose some of the charm and appeal.

I'm wondering about the Weasleys. Molly's been so anxious about a Weasley dying that the temptation to kill one must be huge. But on the other hand, almost dying (and thus fraying Molly's nerves) seems to be their forte.

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Puffy Treat
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Hagrid and Snape will perish. Of this, I am sure.
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Christine
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I think Snape dying is a good bet. I am entirely unconvinced that he is good and more than 99% sure that he is evil. Rowling would have to do quite a bit of work at this point to convince me otherwise, and honestly, dying for Harry isn't enough for me. That sends a mixed message, not a clear one. I need a seriously good explanation for his actions at the end of books 6...maybe that someone used polyjuice potion and only pretended to be Snape or that he was under the Imperious curse. I really think that Snape's betrayal was part of one of her "lessons" that she likes to put in her book -- in this case that anyone can be wrong, even Dumbledore.

Anyway, I would also bet that one of the Weasleys is going to get it...there are just too many of them to all survive. Hagrid is a good bet. He is a major enough character that his death would really affect me. I thought Neville would get it in book 5....so he's still on my list along with most of the other DA members.

There are just so many to choose from. [Smile]

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Synesthesia
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I doubt Tom was born evil. I wonder if JKR did research about attachment issues. Tom grew up in an orphanage, he lost his mother who didn't have the will to live and take care of him, then he grew up in a place where just his basic needs were met. I think he showed a lot of RAD symptoms in book seven such as being charming to some people and cruel to others.
Also he was cruel to animals, that's always a good sign of that.

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Liz B
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I've been sure Hagrid would die since book 4, when people started dying.

My $100 bet is that Percy AND Ginny Weasley will die. I think Percy will have a chance to thoroughly redeem himself first, though.

I think it would be financially foolish for her to have Harry die. Not because of the sequels, but because her audience will HAAAAAATE it if Harry dies.

I think Ron and Hermione are safer than Harry, though.

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Synesthesia
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I would not mind Percy dying.
I just want Wormtail to die as I do not like him.

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Lyrhawn
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I'd be surprised if Hagrid dies, he doesn't get involved in the big fights, and he's a giant, which makes him far more resistant to spells in general. While I gather avada kadavra will still take him out like anyone else, I wonder how involved he'll be, but then, he's had a lot of near misses.

I think Snape is a safe bet. I don't know about the Weasley's. Ginny is probably the best bet if one of them has to die, but I'd be perfectly fine with, and not be surprised at all, if none of them dies. Percy I could see being taken out while naively trying to protect the Minister, and Bill and Charlie are both doing Order business all the time, which puts them at risk, though Bill has already suffered a fairly major injury, as has Arthur. Molly stays out of the fighting, as apparently do the twins.

As for Snape, if he truly was evil, why didn't he kill Harry on his way out of the school grounds? He toyed with him, hell, he almost even TRIED to help him. He told him to leave him alone, and even pointed out the faults in his attack technique, but he didn't kill him. There was no reason not to. Voldemort has tried to kill Harry, he has what he wants from him, there's no further reason to keep him alive. And I am convinced that there is more between Dumbledore and Snape than we know from what we've got, assuming Dumbledore stays dead, which I think he will.

Neville is an interesting case. I can see Bellatrix torturing him until he goes as crazy as his parents, just because she's sick like that, or I can see him dying outright, but I think there is a fair, fair chance that Neville will kill Bellatrix. I think his desire for vengeance is strong enough, and his aptitude for DADA good enough, to take her out when the crap hits the fan.

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Christine
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I don't think Ginny will die.

As for Harry, I hope he doesn't die. On the local news last night they quoted several authors, including Stephen King, begging JK Rowling to spare Harry Potter's life. I thought it was amusing. [Smile]

I just pre-ordered mine! I went to the actual store to do the pre-order because I want to get it as soon as possible. (My mail doesn't come until almost 4 in the afternoon!) Besides, they're doing a midnight party. I might have to join.

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Shanna
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Oh I had forgotten about Neville (I really need to start re-reading.) I think if there was any one person in the book I could save from death, it would be Neville. At the same time, I don't want him to kill Bellatrix. Evil woman or not, I don't want that on Neville's soul for the rest of his life. I want him to incapacitate her until the authorities can lock her up in a cell next to Lucius for all eternity.
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imogen
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quote:
Originally posted by Narnia:
My 'bet you $100' prediction is that Snape will die to save Harry. I think it's the only way that Harry will be convinced that Snape is on Dumbledore's side all along. Unfortunately, we have to deal with Harry's "I hate Snape" angst until that happens.

I believe that many more than two important characters will die. I'm predicting a Weasley parent, a Weasley child, one of Harry's foster family, an important professor (again), and at least one of Harry's jeesh (besides the Weasley kid.) That's....5 so far. Not even counting Snape or Voldemort.

Yeah, I don't have a very optimistic outlook. However, I don't believe she'll kill Harry.

Ack, Narnia!

I just re-read the series.

I think, I really do think Snape is good (Christine, re-read Dumbledore's death scene - that was what sealed it for me). But I can see him dying for Harry, and that would be dreadful, but also maybe the only redemption Snape has open to him now.

I'm not sure on a Weasley parent *and* child, but at least one - probably. And if we're going the Dursleys, maybe Petunia - finally standing up for her sister.

Oh, I can't wait and I don't want to know.

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MidnightBlue
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quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
I doubt Tom was born evil. I wonder if JKR did research about attachment issues. Tom grew up in an orphanage, he lost his mother who didn't have the will to live and take care of him, then he grew up in a place where just his basic needs were met. I think he showed a lot of RAD symptoms in book seven such as being charming to some people and cruel to others.
Also he was cruel to animals, that's always a good sign of that.

Hey spoiler warning! Most of us don't have time machines! [Wink] [Razz]
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Christine
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quote:
I think, I really do think Snape is good (Christine, re-read Dumbledore's death scene - that was what sealed it for me).
I've read that scene ten times and believe it or not, it's what sealed it for me too...that Snape is definitely evil!
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imogen
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Nooo - Dumbledore was begging him (Snape) to kill him, so Malfoy wouldn't have to.

Dumbledore was a dead man - if not only from the potion, he was surrounded! He knew that, so why would he ever beg for his life?

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blacwolve
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I read in an interview somewhere JK Rowling making a slip and seeming to confirm that Hermione would live. I can't find it anywhere now, though. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
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Lyrhawn
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There was an extensive interview with Rowling on, I want to say, the Leaky Cauldron, and I seem to remember something to that effect, but I can't be sure.
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plaid
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Snape = good. Good with EXTREMELY lousy attitude, but good.

On the issue of Harry losing all his support structure: I still think that one of the Horcruxes will turn out to be Hogwarts itself. (Possibly Ravenclaw's Tower or Griffindor's Tower, but more likely the whole school itself.) That'd be quite the drama, Harry having to destroy his beloved school...

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Shigosei
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I'm convinced that Snape is...maybe not good, but on the side of good. I'd be quite disappointed if, after all the suspicion on Harry's part, Snape actually turned out to be evil. I think Dumbledore's statement about making grave mistakes is meant to be misdirection. I'm hoping we find out in book 7 why Dumbledore trusted Snape so much.

I am also convinced that Dumbledore knew about the unbreakable vow and insisted that Snape kill him. I think he values other peoples' lives and souls over his own--by being willing to die, he saved Snape's life and prevents Draco from committing murder. I also think Snape's reaction to Harry on his way off the Hogwarts grounds is very telling. He just killed Dumbledore--a huge victory for Voldemort's side. You'd think he'd be gloating, but instead he's angry. Exactly the sort of reaction you'd expect from a man who just killed someone he cared about. And then Snape goes and tells Harry what he needs to work on to defeat Voldemort.

Unfortunately, I think Dumbledore isn't coming back. Too much of a cheat, and Dumbledore really does need to be gone to further the plot. Dumbledore's actions throughout the book seem to indicate that he knows he's going to die soon. Maybe he's prescient, or maybe he just had a chat with Snape at some point (the argument that was overheard?).

I have no idea who's going to die in the last book. However, I'm guessing that scar is a horcrux, which could cause some interesting problems for Harry...

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Christine
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No, I don't buy the Dumbledore begging Snape to kill him bit. He was begging for his life. Snape's face was full of hatred and loathing as he killed Dumbledore. I also don't believe that Dumbledore knew about Snape's unbreakable vow. Moments before, he was offering Malfoy a way out that involved nobody's death. (Well, it sounded like they would pretend Malfoy was dead.) Voldemort expected Malfoy to fail and be killed in the process. The way it happened, Malfoy has been swept away into the folds of Voldemort supporters.

And after all that, if it does turn out that Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him, I will lose a lot of respect for the entire series. Maybe Rowling could pull something else out of her butt to redeem Snape, but not that. Dumbledore spent a big portion of the sixth book explaining the damage it does to the human soul to kill another human. I don't believe he would have asked anyone to do that. I also don't buy that protecting Snape's undercover role was worth this price -- he has no one on the good side to report to any longer anyway. They all think he's turned on them.

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Puffy Treat
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I'm convinced that Snape was secretly in love with Lily Potter (hence the memory where he cussed her out and lost the feelings of sympathy she previously had for him being termed his "worst" memory)...that that was the thing Dumbledore could never quite bring himself to tell Harry, about why he trusted Snape.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Snape's face was full of hatred and loathing as he killed Dumbledore.
Self-loathing. I think it's absolutely self-evident that Snape is on the side of the good guys.
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Ron Lambert
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IF Snape is actually good, but is trying to keep Voldemort deceived that he is on his side, then it would be important for Snape to ensure that Harry continues to hate him and view him as an enemy--because the psychic link between Harry and Voldemort has been demonstrated several times, and if Harry knew Snape was good, Voldemort would know it too.

That said, I do have to admit that the line about Snape having hate and loathing on his face as he killed Dumbledore is hard to get around. It would be nice if that were self-hate and self-loathing, as TomDavidson suggested, but that requires inserting the word "self" into the text. And that isn't what the author said.

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Christine:
No, I don't buy the Dumbledore begging Snape to kill him bit. He was begging for his life. Snape's face was full of hatred and loathing as he killed Dumbledore. I also don't believe that Dumbledore knew about Snape's unbreakable vow. Moments before, he was offering Malfoy a way out that involved nobody's death. (Well, it sounded like they would pretend Malfoy was dead.) Voldemort expected Malfoy to fail and be killed in the process. The way it happened, Malfoy has been swept away into the folds of Voldemort supporters.

And after all that, if it does turn out that Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him, I will lose a lot of respect for the entire series. Maybe Rowling could pull something else out of her butt to redeem Snape, but not that. Dumbledore spent a big portion of the sixth book explaining the damage it does to the human soul to kill another human. I don't believe he would have asked anyone to do that. I also don't buy that protecting Snape's undercover role was worth this price -- he has no one on the good side to report to any longer anyway. They all think he's turned on them.

He didn't do it just to protect Snape's cover, he did it probably more to save Malfoy than anything else. Dumbledore clearly didn't believe that Malfoy was a bad guy, and I think the fact taht Malfoy couldn't bring himself to kill Dumbledore (though his actions DID lead to Dumbledore's death) might bear some of that out, and I think he would have sacrificed his own life to do it. He knew that Malfoy would die if he didn't complete his task, and I also firmly believe that Dumbledore and Snape planned out or at least both knew about the Unbreakable Vow.

But my biggest belief is hinged on the fact that Dumbledore would not beg for his life.

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Dr Strangelove
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Here's the thing that always bothered me about Snape - Is he really that great of an Occulumens that he can fool Voldy? Sure, Snape is good (maybe good enough to fool Dumbledore?) but Voldemort is, if I recall the phrasing correctly, "the greatest Legilimens of all time" or something of that nature. Snape would therefore have to be the greatest Occulumens of all time to hide his true allegiance from Voldemort. I'm not saying this is conclusive evidence that he's bad, but it is an interesting question that isn't brought up. Why does Voldemort trust Snape?
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Joldo
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Ok, see, Dumbledore and Sirius were points of strength in Harry's life. Ron, Hermione, and Ginny might get in lethal danger--we expect that. But they were there to just sweep in and save the day when necessary.

That's why I say Hagrid. He's supposed to be a constant, which is why he won't be.

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rivka
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How can one person be so right
quote:
Originally posted by Shigosei:
I'm convinced that Snape is...maybe not good, but on the side of good.

. . . and yet so wrong?
quote:
Originally posted by Shigosei:
However, I'm guessing that scar is a horcrux, which could cause some interesting problems for Harry...


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Rakeesh
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quote:
That said, I do have to admit that the line about Snape having hate and loathing on his face as he killed Dumbledore is hard to get around. It would be nice if that were self-hate and self-loathing, as TomDavidson suggested, but that requires inserting the word "self" into the text. And that isn't what the author said.
Perhaps Snape loathed Dumbledore for pushing him to it, for insisting-demanding, even-that Snape murder him (Dumbledore) in cold blood. I can see myself loving and hating the man quite easily, if I were in Snape's shoes. It's certainly easier for me than accepting Dumbledore would plead for his life, a characteristic never even hinted at in thousands of pages of text.

Snape could've simply been lying about Voldemort's mental-magic capabilities. After all, it's not as though there's a Quidditch championship style contest for the title. There aren't many of the magic mind-readers out there in the first place...

And as for why Voldemort trusts Snape...well, the two simply have so much in common. Unlike many other Death Eaters, Snape seems to have such a casual contempt for everyone except himself, which is quite Voldemort-ish. It's not over-the-top psychotic hatred of all people, it's just seeming to view them as...objects. Perhaps Snape really does view all people like this...or at least, all minus one. It only takes one.

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Rakeesh
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Oh, and as for not using the words self-loathing...well, I don't put much stock in that. I mean, if Rowling were going to have Snape be a good guy and it actually be a surprise, that one word would be a major obstacle to overcome.

Plus, it was Harry who saw this...wasn't it? Wasn't it Harry observing this emotion on Snape's face? Or am I mistaken?

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Lyrhawn
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By the way, who's to say that the hate and loathing Snape is feeling isn't towards Voldemort? If I were being forced to make the type of choice he had to make, I would certainly hate Voldemort for it.

Snape isn't the time to have pitiful sadness on his face when being forced to do what he had to do. He's react angrily, using the emotions he expresses best, which happen to be hate and loathing, with a healthy sneer and scoff to boot.

Of course we won't know for sure for another 6 months or so, but I'm still putting my money on a good Snape.

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Fyfe
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I'm positive Snape's good (though it pains me -- I've always always wanted him to be evil, especially since he started being such an ass to Lupin in the third book and making fun of Hermione's teeth in the fourth and picking on Neville all the time. That's just mean). I'm also pretty sure he was in love with Lily; I've thought so for several books now, and her being good at Potions just clinches it. Plus that would explain even more why he hates Harry so much, seeing her eyes set in the face of someone who made his life hell.

Does anyone think we're going to get any new information that'll redeem James from their Hogwarts-time awfulness? I hate that it's been left like that. I want to see how James grew up to be nice, dammit!

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ketchupqueen
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Fyfe, personally I've met up with several folks who were absolute jerks to me in HS-- and are now apologetic, and are very nice, almost completely different people. So I didn't really have a problem with that. But now that you mention it, we aren't going to get to see much more into James' earlier years. So I would like to see a little contrition on his part, I suppose.
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Christine
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I liked the idea of Dumbledore begging for his life. It was a powerfully emotional moment and it made him so human in the end. That's how I read it and how I hope to be able to remember it.

One thing I've noticed about the "Snape is good" side of this discussion is that it requires an awful lot of reading between lines and in some cases, reading in things that are not specifically in the book. For examlpe "self" in "self-loathing." [Smile]

Rowling is not a shallow writer, but I've always been very clear on things at the end of her books. The ending was the ending -- she hasn't gone back to date.

It's confession time: I *love* these books. I have read most of them at least 5 times. (I might have only read book 6 3 times). I actually think that Snape genuinely turned to Dumbledore's side at some point and that Dumbledore had a good reason for trusting him. I think something happened in books 5 and 6 (when Voldemort returned) that changed things. He could change his mind once, he could do it again, right? What I really want to know in book 7 (and in fact, expect to find out or I will be quite angry):

1. Why did Dumbledore trust Snape?
2. Why did Voldemort trust Snape?
3. How did Snape manage to hide his true allegiance from the opposite party?
4. What made Snape decide to turn and when?

If Snape turns out to be "good" then there are a lot more questions:

1. Why did Snape kill Dumbledore?
**********2. What makes it okay that Snape killed Dumbledore????
3. Why did Snape make the unbreakable vow?
4. What role is Snape trying to play?

Mostly, though, it's number 2, the one I starred. And to be honest, I have yet to hear a good answer to the question, though I have heard several proposed. Of all the who, how's, and why's it's that what that I can't get past....What makes it okay that Snape killed Dumbledore?

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Rakeesh
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Christine,

quote:
I liked the idea of Dumbledore begging for his life. It was a powerfully emotional moment and it made him so human in the end. That's how I read it and how I hope to be able to remember it.

One thing I've noticed about the "Snape is good" side of this discussion is that it requires an awful lot of reading between lines and in some cases, reading in things that are not specifically in the book. For examlpe "self" in "self-loathing."

While pleading for his life does lend some further humanity to Dumbledore, he always felt thoroughly human to me in the way that great leaders do, sometimes. Larger than life. It's not reading anything into the book that isn't there to say that Dumbledore has faced death and mortal peril before, and yet this aspect of his character-a fawning, pleading desperate bid for life-is never mentioned or even hinted at. While it's quite possible that you're right, and Snape is evil...it also takes quite a bit of interpretation to suppose that it isn't an act as well.

And as for the 'self' in self-loathing, well, that's pretty easily explained if Snape is good, and not somehow 'unfair' on Rowling's part. The ending of this book was quite different from others aside from this controversy as well: I don't recall there being such a gigantic, obviously-stated cliffhanger as there is in this one about who got the Horcrux.

---------

As for what makes it OK that Snape killed Dumbledore...well, that's the most easily answered question of all, if Snape is good. Dumbledore is at war with Voldemort. Severus Snape is an extremely valuable, trusted (well, a conflicted trust) spy in Voldemort's camp. Dumbledore knows this, Snape knows this. What if Dumbledore decided-as was hinted by his arguments with Snape-that his life was worth less than this incredibly valuable asset?

Snape and Dumbledore are both unique, even if Snape is truly evil. If he is good, though...well, war isn't a good thing. Sometimes it's just plain awful.

As to why he killed Dumbledore? Surely Dumbledore, if he knew Draco Malfoy would kill him if someone else didn't, would order Snape to do so to spare Malfoy from becoming a cold-blooded murderer?

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