posted
And not even a date, for that matter. I'm a senior in high school and that kind of thing...just isn't my thing at this point in time.
But I got asked to a girl's choice dance next Saturday (it's the Valentine's Day-esque dance). I really, really don't want to go, but like somebody told me, this isn't all about me. I need to think about the girl that asked me, and what she would feel if I had said no, or if I act selfish and petty at it.
But anyway, I'm totally lost and kind of worrying about how it will go. From what I've gathered, the sort of tradition for this is that the girl drives (which is a relief, because I don't own a car) and pays and everything. Would it be bad for me to offer to pay for some or all of the date? Would it be bad if I didn't?
How should I act? Should I open doors for her and stuff? I know some girls are insulted if you do and some are insulted if you don't. Argh. What in the world do I do if those horribly annoying and embarrassing awkward silences pop up? Should I maybe buy her flowers or chocolates or some other Valentine's day type thing?
What about the actual dancing? I've never danced a day in my life. I won't know what in the world to do. What about slow dancing?
Argh. I almost made it all the way through high school without having to deal with something like this. But I'm going to try my best, for her -- I've known her for quite awhile now, and she's nice. Somebody that I could be friends with, and not worry about something deeper. (Not that I know her very well -- it's been kind of one of those passing relationships.)
It's not selfish to say no if you don't want to go. Guys ask girls out all this time and they have to deal with the possibility of rejection. It's absurd to say that girls should be immune from that. You ask someone out, you run the risk that they will say no. However, if you already said yes, it's sort of rude to retract that without a good reason (like, say, getting sick.)
I'd say that if she asks, it's her responsibility to pay, and I wouldn't say you were obligated to offer. That said, it's a nice thing to ask if she'd like you to pay half. I wouldn't offer to pay for all of it, though.
Opening doors, buying chocolate, etc. is all optional, in my opinion. I'm the sort of girl who doesn't get offended either way with the door opening thing. My general mode of operation is whoever gets there first opens the door, unless someone has their hands full or is otherwise less able to open it. Just be polite, and try to relax. You're not that interested in a deep relationship anyway, so who cares if you make a few mistakes?
Dancing at high school dances is really easy in my experience. Got a general sense of rhythm? Most songs played at this sort of thing have four beats per measure. Jerk your body around in time to the tune--one per beat, or twice or more if you're feeling really energetic. Don't worry too much about how you look. Everyone looks stupid at this sort of dance, so just relax and enjoy moving. You'll probably look less stupid if you're not too self-conscious, and you'll definitely have more fun. As for slow dancing, you just embrace and sway back and forth, sometimes turning in a slow circle. It's easy, and you don't really even need a good sense of rhythm.
And no, you're not pathetic.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
If you're genuinely not interested, you should turn her down with a thump. This is the age of feminism; why should they get special treatment? On the other hand, even if you're not interested in this particular girl, you might consider that it's near certain you will be interested in someone else in the not-too-distant future. At that time, you will probably be glad if you've got a bit of practice on someone who doesn't matter.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
First off, I say go. Even if you have a horrific time, at least you can say you went. I doubt you'll have a horrific time, but even if you do, just try to think that you'll think back on it with smiles later .
Secondly, be a gentleman. For me, that would mean opening doors, offering to pay though not insisting, and just generally paying attention to her needs. If you don't like her romantically, I would forego flowers or chocolates unless its one of those "everyone does it" things. Just ... be a gentleman.
And as for dancing .... sorry, can't help ya there . I know nothing. Just don't do anything you're uncomfortable with.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
You are under NO obligation to go if you don't want to. It's good to get practice to be more at ease in social situations. But if you really, really, really don't want to go, then don't. It won't make you *more* at ease to have an awful time.
You should open doors for her and be courteous. You aren't expected to give a gift unless there's some custom I've never heard of. I think it would be nice to do the "let me pay for it" on part of your evening, but don't offer her money, I think, or offer to split anything. It's a date, and dates are about being generous.
Awkward silences aren't your fault, but you can make them less awkward if you have things about her you're genuinely curious about. Failing that, something else to talk about; or be with other couples on the date.
Dancing: slow dancing is romantic, but it's easy in terms of technique. Stand close, hands on her waist (see how others do it), shift around slowly.
Fast dancing for beginners is just stand somewhere near each other and wriggle. It feels less silly when everyone else is there doing the same thing!
--
But overall, my thought is: if she knew you felt this way, there's no way she'd want you to go. Why is it such an awful prospect for you? Social anxiety? The dancing thing? Not into the whole dating thing? Depending on the reason, you might find some other way to have a great time on Valentine's.
Posts: 1877 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks guys. I think my main thing is that I just want her to have a good time -- I'm not interested in starting a relationship with her. Heavens no. But I try to be a nice guy, and I wouldn't want to hurt somebody just because I'm to afraid to go outside of my little comfort zone.
I know that if I really really did not want to go (e.g, she was a person I despised) I would have no qualms with saying no. It's not really an issue of feminism, and the female receiving special treatment just because of the extra X chromosome. But when this is a nice person that I'm sort of friends with, I can't justify saying no and possibily embarrassing and hurting that person in the process.
But on the same token, I wouldn't want to say yes and then make the date even worse than it would have been otherwise.
EDIT: Will B, I think it's a combination of all of those things. I've always been a bit awkward in big social situations, never really knowing what I should do. (I'm fine one on one with a person, but I dislike most everything else...yeah, I'm working on it, so this will probably be good for me.) I'm not into the whole dating thing because I find it all a bit silly and counterproductive -- at least the way it goes on most of the time. Especially in high school.
Heh. So in effect, I'm kind of a cynical high school student who doesn't exactly like the "in crowd".
Posts: 290 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
My first date was very similar; I was a junior, had no real interest in the girl, but felt like I ought to go because she asked me and she was nice. It also helped that we were going with a large group, several of whom were my friends.
She organized everything; I might have paid for half the dance/pictures or something, and dinner was just at somebody's house. I had a good time before the dance, and an alright time at the dance itself. I think I got her a corsage, because it was a formal dance, but for the two or three semi-formal girls' choice dances I went to, I don't remember getting my date anything.
The date wasn't a lot of fun for me, but it was a good experience. The main reason was we just didn't know each other well, so there were lots of uncomfortable pauses. Again, being in a large group helped that somewhat. The dances when I knew my date well were much more fun. And that first dance did have the effect of loosening me up so that when I got asked to my next dance (with Jocelyn, who was a great girl), I was glad to go and had a really good time.
So, my advice is to say yes, especially if it's a group date. Talk with her about expectations; just be straight-forward and direct (e.g. "Would you like me to pay for the dance?" and "Will you be setting up a ride, or should I?") Don't worry too much about opening doors; if she gets to the door first, but doesn't reach for the handle, then go ahead. If you get there first, open it and wait for her, as well as the other members of your group (if you hold it open for guys and girls, how can it be sexist?). As for dancing; slow dancing is easy, and faster dances are opportune moments for punch and wide-eyed mockery of others (especially those who went out drinking before the dance).
Posts: 2926 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, and for clarification I did say yes. And it is a group date which should help a LOT (especially since I sort of know a couple of people in the group).
Anyway, thanks a ton guys. These comments are really helping, actually.
Posts: 290 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm glad you said yes and that you are taking her feelings into consideration. KoM feminism crap is a bunch of, well, crap. Girls (especially teenage girls) will get their feelings hurt just the same (though quite probably more) than a guy would when getting rejected. If you truly dispised the girl, which you obviously don't, I would suggest a tactful way of declining. Don't worry too much about if you're doing the "right" thing. Everyone else is High School is feeling the same way. Even the "in" crowd.
Girls Choice, IMO, is a given that the girl is paying. I always did. Gifts are not required. If you really wanted to get her something, I'm sure she'd love it, but don't go out trying to find something because you think you need to.
And truly, there is a very small percentage of people who really know how to dance. Slow dancing is no prob, just do what Will B said. And you don't even have to dance to fast songs if you don't want to. You can find a snack, talk to your date, whatever.
It doesn't have to be a hard thing. Just don't sweat it and go with the flow. If you feel weird, say something. The more honest you are about the way your feeling the smoother the date will go.
Posts: 293 | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Girls (especially teenage girls) will get their feelings hurt just the same (though quite probably more) than a guy would when getting rejected.
Well, that's sorta my point. Would you advise a girl not to turn down a guy on the grounds that he might get his feelings hurt?
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by DaisyMae: Girls Choice, IMO, is a given that the girl is paying. I always did.
I don't think that's the case at all. I'd assume you'd each be paying for yourselves.
And holding doors is absolutely necessary in any case where there are a dress and heels involved.
I wouldn't even worry about dancing. I think I mostly only danced during the slow dances in high school. I can't dance to save my life. So if you don't want to, don't. But also, the guy isn't really expected to be a "good" dancer or do anything showy, which works in your favor and makes me jealous.
posted
On the gift question- is this a formal dance or informal? For a formal dance, you should bring her a corsage. Informal, no gift needed.
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Paying: Things at my high school seemed pretty modern. If you don't know the person very well and it's not a real date, go dutch (split the costs evenly). Everyone is more comfortable that way.
Dancing: At the dance watch everyone else. They should all be doing the same thing. Slow dancing is a piece of cake, put your arms around each other and sway.
Gifts: Yes, it's called a corsage. They can be worn by pinning it to the front of the dress or on the wrist. Most girls prefer the wrist one so they don't have to put pin holes in their dress. Find out what color her dress is and call up a grocery or flower store and order one to be picked up the day of the dance. Tell them what color dress she's wearing and they will make one with that color ribbon. Don't be cheap and get one with a carnation. A simple one with a rose is fine. This should not be done at the last minute. Your school probably isn't the only school in the area that has a dance that night and the stores may sell out. I had this problem once.
Behavior: Open the doors for her (basic). Don't ignore her. She is your date and deserves most of your attention. Make sure you ask her to dance often. No one cares that you can't dance but sitting down the whole evening at the dance will make the night the dullest you'll ever experience.
Appearance: Look nice. She'll want pictures (or her parents) and she won't want to look back someday and wonder what she was thinking. I mean, get a haircut and shave. Iron your clothes and make sure you wear proper shoes (not sneakers). Speaking of pictures, there will probably be a professional photographer there to take formal pictures. Make sure you bring some extra money for those (if you want any).
After Hours: We didn't let the party end at the end of the dance. We would got to a friend's house to watch movies or stop at an all hours diner place like Village Inn, Denny's, or Perkins. Bring money for that.
I hope this helps! Have a great time!
Posts: 2064 | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
These are good problems to have, aragorn64.
Since your date has asked you out, it's safe to say she fancies you at least somewhat; so small breaches in behaviour shouldn't be a big issue. Be yourself and things will probably go smoothly. So I was told on my first dance.
quote:Originally posted by aragorn64: But when this is a nice person that I'm sort of friends with, I can't justify saying no and possibily embarrassing and hurting that person in the process.
Quick note (although you've probably thought of this already): You may also want to consider the trade-off of hurting someone now versus hurting them in the future.
There's a possibility that by accepting, she may think and hope that a major relationship is starting. If you're really sure that a relationship is not in the cards, then rejecting her later when her expectations are higher may be worse than a rejection now.
Now if both of you are on the same page and know that you're just going as friends disinterested in a relationship, then all power to you. Or you are the slightest bit open to a relationship.
But just a thought for consideration.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks guys, this is great stuff. I'm not sure what she was planning to do in terms of payment, but I think "Dutch" would be the best way to go. The dancing tips should help. I know I'll look like a fool, but so will everbody else, so I'll survive. ^_^
And yeah, it's formal. I never would have thought of a corsage. Thanks a ton Valentine014, I'll ask her about her dress on Monday and see if I can get that corsage ordered...
Mucus: I know that's always a possibility (and I know people who have gone through all sorts of hell with that type of situation). I'm not worried too much now. I'll cross that bridge if I ever get to it with her.
Posts: 290 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
In my high school experience, alot of girls like to dress up and do this kind of thing. She might think this is a date, or she might just need a date and being that you're casual friends, she decided to ask you. Saying "no" or going to a dance "as friends" will not necessarily crush a girl.
I think its nice that you want her to have a good time. But don't forget about yourself. I particularly agree with those who said this is good practice because even if you're not big on dating now, there's a good chance it'll happen sometime in your future. In my experience, dating and attending dances in high school was awkward and silly and not at all like it is in the movies...but it made for good memories, odd stories to tell the kids, and just a nice learning experience. If you're going to be in a fraternity in college, date a girl in a sorority, or belong to a group or organization which has yearly formal dances, its good to have an idea of these things for later.
I'm also a member of "whoever gets to the door first" opens it. Some girls might hang back and give you a chance to show off your gentleman skills and open it for them. I, on the other hand, was always rushing to open doors much to the angst of my exs. As for gifts, I would say it depends. Ask any buddies who've been to this dance before what usually happens. Ask around if anyone is buying their date a corsage or if gifts are traditional. Since this seems more friendly than romantic, if you need to get a gift try something cutesy. For example, a valentines tiny teddy bear as opposed to roses.
As for awkward silences, maybe prepare some ideas in your head. Think about the movies you've seen recently or a new cd you bought? Ask her about her classes or hobbies if she's on a team, ask how they're doing...that sort of thing. Just laugh and don't make the silences feel like a big deal.
And don't worry. Go, try and have fun, and goodluck.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Why don't you try talking over these concerns with her?
Yeah, it won't exactly make you look like a super-stud to confess your total lack of experience, but then again blundering into this without any input from anyone that actually knows her will hardly have a significant chance of being anything but terribly awkward.
Posts: 763 | Registered: Aug 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
The most important thing is have a good time.
You're young, live it up! Pretty soon you're going to want to start dating for real, so the more practice you have interacting with the ladies, the better.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
when i worked up the nerve to ask a guy friend to go to a dance with me he said no. it really really sucked. i'm really glad you are going, and giving it your best shot. it shows you are a good and compassionate person.
it's not a hook up; saying no when you _can_ go would be, not awful, i guess, but it would be very bad form!
it will be a growing experience, even if you don't feel everything went perfectly. i'm really glad there are young men like you!
Posts: 3936 | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
p.s. treat her well, and it is always better to err on the side of polite and chivalrous. here's the thing - even if you don't have romantic interests in this girl, she is still a young lady and it will serve you both well to treat eachother with respect (ie, opening doors for her, etc.).
also - you may not want to date her, but you may one day want to date someone she knows. if you don't treat a girl well all the other girls will know - and when they are older they will care.
it is okay to do nice things for a girl you don't plan on dating in a social situation like this. it makes you a better young man, and it makes her a better young woman. anyone that tell you different is bitter or a jerk.
ha, i'm both of those things but i've also been on both ends of that situation and your decision to go, have a good time, and be nice to her is best.
dating isn't a promise - it's a test run, or just a fun night out. always put your best foot forward. i have a best friend who is always polite and classy, even if she isn't interested or the guy ends up being a jerk. she doesn't lead anyone on, but everyone thinks well of her. it set a good example for me.
*sigh* i sound like such an old lady.
Posts: 3936 | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Girls (especially teenage girls) will get their feelings hurt just the same (though quite probably more) than a guy would when getting rejected.
Well, that's sorta my point. Would you advise a girl not to turn down a guy on the grounds that he might get his feelings hurt?
Yes I would.
And at my High School girls choice dances were always informal, so I suppose this is treading new ground for me.
Posts: 293 | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick:
quote:Originally posted by airmanfour:
quote:Originally posted by stihl1: And remember, just because she pays doesn't mean you have to put out.
But it's the polite thing to do.
*snicker*
So glad I am not the only one with that reaction when reading that.
All I can say is agree that you can go as friends. That's what I did when I went to homecoming and prom. Sort of almost the exact situation. However, I was informed by a mutual friend of my "date" and mine that she was going to ask. She then went on to say that I should ask my "date" to the dance or she would hurt me... She never would have really. This friend's family and mine were all close friends.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Girls (especially teenage girls) will get their feelings hurt just the same (though quite probably more) than a guy would when getting rejected.
Well, that's sorta my point. Would you advise a girl not to turn down a guy on the grounds that he might get his feelings hurt?
Yes I would.
And at my High School girls choice dances were always informal, so I suppose this is treading new ground for me.
Feeleings are feelings. They repair over time. I wouldn't want some girl saying yes when she wants to say no. It hurts more when you find out later anyway.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Is it really that hard? Say no if you don't want to do it. Say "Yes, but I'm not interested in you romantically," if you want to go as just friends.
Why on earth would you postpone telling someone no, if it will just increase their unhappiness later?
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Look nice. Buy a corsage. If awkward pauses happen, you can try asking her questions or talking about things/people you have in common. If awkward pauses persist, I always find that commenting on the awkward pause makes for a nice laughter moment, since she's probably feeling awkward too!
Flowers (beyond corsages) and chocolates scream "date" to me, so only buy them if you have romantic interest beyond that night. Be polite, and remember that the point of the whole thing is for you both to have fun.
I like what you said about everyone looking stupid - it's true. Embrace the stupidity and laugh!
Posts: 23 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by porcelain girl: here's the thing - even if you don't have romantic interests in this girl, she is still a young lady and it will serve you both well to treat eachother with respect (ie, opening doors for her, etc.).
it is okay to do nice things for a girl you don't plan on dating in a social situation like this. it makes you a better young man, and it makes her a better young woman. anyone that tell you different is bitter or a jerk.
Um, I'm going to tell you otherwise, and I'm neither bitter nor a jerk. How is a guy opening a door for a girl them showing respect "for each other"? Is she showing him respect by daining to walk through it? I'm not saying that it isn't nice for one person to open a door for another, but it is not required nor does it make anyone a "better young man or woman". If she's wearing a full length dress (bottom just meets the floor) then she will have to hold it up when she walks and it would be nice to hold the door open. I put that in the same category of someone carrying something heavy though.
If you aren't comfortable with dancing (I never was, but I didn't go to any dances with dates so it never mattered), I would recommend letting her know that. If she wants someone who's going to dance non-stop all night, this gives her some warning, and if she doesn't it will take some of the pressure off of you. This isn't to say that warning her gets you off the hook entirely, you should still try, and may even end up enjoying it.
Posts: 1547 | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, she's coming to pick me up in about twenty minutes. I'm scared as heck, but I think it should all go well thanks to all of the tips given to me.
I kind of wish they hadn't organized this as a day date as well. If we go clear till the dance ends that's nearly eight hours with this girl...man, that seems just a little much for me on my very first date. Grah. It'll all be over soon, I hope things go well, and maybe I'll even have a little bit of fun.
Posts: 290 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
this might be too late, but just enjoy your day in the sun... a girl asked you to a dance, you're the man of the hour.
don't worry too much about implications, how she might feel in ten years etc. be nice [you already sound like a nice guy, so just be yourself] and have fun.
posted
Thanks! She's actually not here yet. I hope she can find the house -- it's kind of out of the way, and I'm a little bit worried that my directions were kind of vague. Oh well, she has my phone number if she gets lost.
Posts: 290 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Best of luck, aragorn. In my experience as a semi-sociophobe, things like this almost always work out much more pleasantly than you'd think when worrying about it beforehand.
Posts: 896 | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ah... My first (and only) dance was at a summer program for the 'gifted'. Long-story short, I didn't realise that by 'dance' they meant 'grind bodies against each other in a blatently sexual manner', and I didn't realize you weren't supposed to wear a tie. So many people told me I looked 'snazzy'. In other words, I looked like I'd never been to a dance before.
I did take a picture of the 'grindfest' for my family... My grandmother loved the two boys 'dancing' together. I think I got a dark little pleasure out of her reaction.
But, I digress.
I pretty much figure that nobody at the dance is going to pay you any attention anyway, since they'll be otherwise <Ahem> occupied.
So, the only person you'll have to worry about is the girl.
Just have fun. Be nice. And if she gets angry at you for being a chovinest pig (Yes, I know I spelled that incorrectly, and will not be taken seriously now) because you opened doors for her, then it's her problem.
Besides, I think it's better to err on the polite 'old-fasioned' gentleman behavior side of things.
Dancing, hmmm... Have you ever seen 'Hitch'?
No, you aren't pathetic. Of course, I say this, because in my admitting that you are pathetic, I'll be admiting that I am pathetic.
Don't worry about it. It's not like you've botched anything with her because you can't dance. The only thing you will have lost will be your dignity, and, in my experience, I find dignity overrated anyway.
Posts: 438 | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, I'm back and I thought I'd let you guys know how it went.
Overall: I think it went very well. I'm super glad that this was a group date: it made things all that more casual, and relieved a lot of pressure off of any one individual. It also helped that I knew two of the guys in our group quite well. There was always some conversation going on, so awkward silences were pretty nonexistant. But then there's the danger of not paying enough attention to your date, I guess, but I think I did pretty well with that. I asked if she wanted to go halfway with the money, but she said she wanted to pay for it. I didn't press it. (I did buy everybody ice cream afterwards, though, which made me feel a little better).
I was quite worried again once we got to the dance. But I figured the only thing I could do is step right out of my little comfort box immediately, or else I would never do it. I looked a fool, but I did my best to have a good attitude about it. It still scared the freaking daylights out of me (I'm a sociophobe too) but I think I did all right.
My date did seem a little dejected a few times, but I think I did my best. I'm pretty sure she had a good time (if she didn't, well I can't help that).
Thanks again, everyone, for your tips and support! It really helped.
Phew. That's a load off of my shoulders...now I can start worrying about other things again. But for now, I'm tired and I must sleep.
Posts: 290 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
You know the only thing I really remember about my first dance in high school was that afterwards (as in a few hours/days later) I realized that she wanted a good night kiss, and had given me tons of signals I was utterly oblivious too as it never would have occured to me to kiss someone on a first date (group date earlier in the evening) when dropping her off--but then it was a prom, which changes things abit, I'm told.
she may have been a bit dissappointed, it's more likely that you were hyper sensitive and angsty towards things going wrong and noticed too much and/or overinterrpreted things.
But my guess is that things went mostly right, and stepping out of your comfort box and getting in the spirit/having fun was probably a great choice to make. it took me much longer to realize that one. Posts: 128 | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
. I know nothing. Just don't do anything you're uncomfortable with.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
