posted
Ever watch Keeping Up Appearances? It's a very funny British sitcom that focuses on the character of Hyacinth Bucket. She has two defining character traits:
1) She's a complete snob.
2) She's completely oblivious to anything that might shatter her preconceived notions of the world.
I've recently come across a whole slew of fan fictions in which the writer attempts to "redeem" Hyacinth of these flaws. She stops acting ashamed of her sisters. She finally realizes her son Sheridan is gay. She stops forcing friends to attend her "candlelight dinners".
The problem is, the moment her flaws are taken away, she not only ceases to be funny...she ceases to work as a viable character.
She becomes just a middle class British lady who pronounces her name "Bouquet".
I think a lot of "Redemption" fan-fic makes the same mistake...the writer wants so much to make their favorite character into a paragon of pristine purity that they eradicate the very things that make that character memorable in the first place.
Severus Snape ceases to work half so well if his bitterness towards Harry Potter's father and obsession with the dark arts are revealed to "just a ruse, I'm really quite nice!"
Is it possible to "Redeem" a fictional character in fan fiction without violating what makes said character tick? I've never seen it done.
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Of course it is possible. The main character in a novel spends the whole novel redeeming his or her self / overcoming his or her flaws / saving the chicken from the evil pressure cooker.
I love Keeping up Appearances, btw.
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Phanto: Of course it is possible. The main character in a novel spends the whole novel redeeming his or her self / overcoming his or her flaws / saving the chicken from the evil pressure cooker.
I wasn't referring to novels, but to fan fictions that take flawed characters and "fix" them. Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Thing is, to be redeemed is to change. You'd end up with a new character. The new one might be interesting, or not.
To me, Hyancinth is funny, but she's also tragic. If only nobody would put up with her, she'd have to change. The serious version of her is in Absent in the Spring by Mary Westmacott (aka Agatha Christie -- not a mystery).
Posts: 1877 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Hyacinth doesn't quite work for me because everybody around her are such wimps. How the devil did such an utter snob manage to marry a Mr Bucket, anyway? It doesn't make sense.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by King of Men: Hyacinth doesn't quite work for me because everybody around her are such wimps. How the devil did such an utter snob manage to marry a Mr Bucket, anyway? It doesn't make sense.
Richard was a step up, and also extremely moldable to her ways. He could look the part of a Boo-kay.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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quote:Originally posted by King of Men: Hyacinth doesn't quite work for me because everybody around her are such wimps. How the devil did such an utter snob manage to marry a Mr Bucket, anyway? It doesn't make sense.
If you've watched the show, you know the family she came from makes Mr. Bucket seem like the Royal Family. Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
I phrased my question badly. I should have asked, why did Mr Bucket marry such an utter snob?
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Is it possible to "Redeem" a fictional character in fan fiction without violating what makes said character tick? I've never seen it done.
I've seen slashfic where Holmes and Watson give up their denial and admit their love for each other. But they still remain the quintessential Holmes and Watson.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I'm not into fanfic, but I definitely think trying to redeem Hyacinth would ruin the character.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Will B: Thing is, to be redeemed is to change. You'd end up with a new character. The new one might be interesting, or not.
To me, Hyancinth is funny, but she's also tragic. If only nobody would put up with her, she'd have to change. The serious version of her is in Absent in the Spring by Mary Westmacott (aka Agatha Christie -- not a mystery).
Word. I love the show and I even love her character because she's so oblivious, but a redeemed and changed Hyacinth probably wouldn't make for good story telling...unless you turned it into The Wacky Adventures of the Newly Redeemed Hyacinth and her Wimpy Family. And those would have to be some pretty wacky adventures. I think the demographic would change a bit. Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Will B: I wondered that about some Mr. Buckets in real life...
My aunt and uncle were a Mr. and Mrs. Bucket. My aunt was born to a poor, working class/farming family who married a wealthy man who had been separated from his wealth by the time he met her.
What did she get?
A Mayflower family name. A spot in the NYC elite.
What did he get?
A beautiful woman who made every decision for him from the time he awakened(her choice as to time) to the time he went to bed. He never had a moment of discomfort. He never had to make a choice. He did not need to speak, because she spoke for him.
posted
I'm wonder if the fan's who wish to redeem Hyacinth are American or British fans.
I'm wondering because I've noticed that one of the hallmarks of British humor is repetition. The same line or gag gets repeated over and over again. For people who really appreciate this style of humor, the joke gets funnier everytime its repeated. But for people who don't, the routine becomes stale and boring after the first few iterations.
I think that although many Americans appreciate this style of humor, it really isn't the American style. After the first a certain number of repeats, the typical American is looking for some new twist or turn. So I can imagine that many Americans who enjoy watching Hyacinth for awhile eventually get frustrated by the fact that she keeps repeating herself. They start hoping that she will change because they've gotten bored with her.
[ February 09, 2007, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I don't really want Hyacinth to change, for the purposes of the show. The only reason I would want Hyacinth to change is for poor Mr. Bucket. I do tend to get a little too personally involved with these characters' lives ... and that's probably where a lot of fanfic is coming from - people who are really invested in the characters' lives, and want to make them real people instead of entertainment.
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Some characters can be redeemed in the sense that those characters get their priorities right, but that really doesn't change their personality.
Hyacinth isn't really a good example, because while she, in her own way, is not a nice person, she is certainly not an evil or bad person either. So there really isn't much room for redemption.
Now we could take Draco Malfoy or Severus Snape as better examples. In failed fan fiction, Harry and Draco are usually painted as best buddies, and everything is fine between them. But that is not realistic. Draco and Harry have too much history, and this also applies to Snape, to suddenly become buddy-buddy.
A more realistic change is that Draco simply gets his priorities straight. He realizes, especially after the fiasco of the 6th book, that Voldemort is a lost cause. That supporting Voldemort will bring nothing but perpetual misery, chaos, and death to everyone. People don't make a lot of money amist misery and chaos. Stability is the key to prosperity.
So, Draco joins the right side, the side of safety, stability, and prosperity, but Draco is still a Slytherin through and through. Now, I don't for a second think that being a Sltherin automatically makes you evil, but it does make you cunning and calculating, and those things never change. So, even if Draco sees the error of his ways, he and Harry are alwasy going to clash as always happens when to unyeilding Alpha Males come together. They may find a way to work together but there is always going to be a bitting sacasm behind everything they do.
So, yes a character can be morally redeemed, but that doesn't equal a personality transplant. That doesn't change essentially who they are. Draco will alway be Draco, and Hyacinth will always be Hyacinth, but they can still act in a way that is not detrimental to the people around them. Hyacinth is essentially harmless. Her greatest fault is that she is pertentious and annoying, but those aren't such terrible faults. I think the reason Richard has stuck with her all these years is because, while his life has been annoying, it has never been dull. There are a lot of things you can say about life with Hyacinth, but 'Dull' isn't one of them.
So, yes, you can write a redeemed character, but not a sanitised one; not one in which the essense of the person has been removed.
posted
My mom always wanted to see a Keeping Up Appearances sequel where Richard left Hyacinth for Elizabeth next door. Emmett was suddenly dealing with being on his own. Sheridan and Tarquin moved home to help Hyacinth win Richard back. And Hyacinth spent all her time trying to convince everyone that Richard hadn't really left.
I think it has potential. Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
That's awful... Hyacinth Bucket couldn't possibly be anything BUT the stuffed shirt that she is. I love Keeping Up Appearances, and I especially love the dynamics between the sisters, between Hyacinth and her family, etc... the fact that Emmett and Elizabeth are terrified of her...
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