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Author Topic: Hatrack parents: would you send your preschooler to this class?
ketchupqueen
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So, I just got a job teaching Preschool Art at a local park through the Parks Department. It's one hour a week, Saturday mornings (11 to 12.) It's for 3 to 5 year old children (and luckily for me, class size is limited to 8, not including my daughter, who I can bring along for free if she wants to come.) It is 8 weeks, and the cost is fairly minimal for the parents (I think probably between $20 and $30 for all 8 weeks.)

I am really excited; however, I am starting to second-guess my concept for the class. Instead of just doing art projects, what I want to do is introduce the children to different styles of art, concepts of art, aims of art, not just "how to do this." They're preschoolers, I don't expect great art from them; I'm more interested in inspiring them to look at the world around them as art and look at art as something fun that makes a statement that they can relate to. I want to spend the first part of the class talking about a concept, looking at pictures, reading stories, etc. in a circle on the floor, and then the second part actually doing short projects. (I figure most 3 to 5 year olds won't have extremely long attention spans, anyway.) But I'm worried that parents won't be too enthused because they're more interested in sending their kids to a "traditional" art class, rather than my art concept/art project class.

Would you mind taking a look at the short lesson outlines I've come up with so far and telling me if you think that it is something that you would send your child to if it was available to you, or if you think it would be a waste of time and money and would rather send them to a class where it was all projects?

Here are the lesson outlines I've got so far (not necessarily in the order we'll do them in, except the first one):

Self-portraits

Part one: What is art? Why do people make art? Talk about what a self-portrait is. Show pictures of famous self-portraits. Discuss why many artists have done self-portraits, and what a self-portrait can be.

Part two: paper-plate self-portraits. Use yarn, fabric, paint, etc. on paper plates to create self-portraits.

Animals (concept: sculpture)

Part one: talk about animals. Look at pictures or read a short book about different animals. What is your favorite animal? Where do animals live? Have some small animal sculptures out to look at and touch, look at pictures of animal sculptures. Talk about what is same/different about each. Talk about sculpture: what is sculpture? Describe/demonstrate basic techniques for clay sculpture.

Part two: play-clay animals. (Of course, if they'd rather make something else they'd be free to.)

Textile Art

Part one: talk about textiles as art. Show pictures and examples. Why have people all over the world decorated clothing and other fabric?

Part two: decorate wall hangings (muslin on dowels, to be hung with yarn) with sponges, brushes, and paint. (Mother’s Day gift?)

Architecture

Part one: show pictures of buildings (in L.A. and around the world.) Talk about buildings, houses, architects, and architecture as art. Why do people want their houses to look pretty? What other reasons might people have for making pretty buildings instead of plain ones?

Part two: build a castle together out of boxes (remember to start collecting boxes and containers!)

Part three: wood scrap art, building “cities” by gluing wood scraps to boards.

American Primitive Art

Part one: talk about, show pictures of American Primitive art. Talk about the appeal of American Primitive. Why do people like these pictures? Discuss simple shapes and subjects. Talk about portraying what you know and preserving good memories.

Part two: collage with simple pre-cut shapes and drawing/painting, making home or countryside pictures.

Texture

Part one: discuss texture. What is texture? Why is texture important? How is it created? Show pictures, examples.

Part two: Sandpaper drawings and/or collage with different textures (depending on age and ability of group.)

Art and Feelings

Part one: Talk about feelings. Talk about how art allows us to express our feelings and how we feel about things around us. What are some things we could show our feelings about through art? How do we respond to the world around us through art?

Part two: Play music, and dance, responding to the music and how it makes you feel. This is one way to respond to music.

Part three: Draw, paint, sculpt, or otherwise portray how you feel as different music is played. Make one picture/sculpture or many.


And obviously I need to come up with one more lesson plan. But my question is, do you think I'm on the right track here? It's a class I'd want to send my daughter to (in fact, I'm going to be taking her), but I just don't know if others will want to do this or if they'll think it's not what the class is supposed to be.

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quidscribis
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I have no idea, but it sounds cool! Good luck. [Smile]
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Richard Berg
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I think your heart is in the right place, but your expectations are way too high. Preschoolers are not equipped to generalize, much less appreciate abstract ideas.

quote:
Would you mind taking a look at the short lesson outlines I've come up with so far and telling me if you think that it is something that you would send your child to if it was available to you, or if you think it would be a waste of time and money and would rather send them to a class where it was all projects?
Both. Some parents overestimate their kids' abilities, so they'll happily participate. Meanwhile, the more realistic parents won't expect actual learning to take place no matter what your curriculum is; if your Art Theory 101 sails over their head, so what? It can't be any more of a "waste" than ordinary finger-painting silliness.

If you want to be worthwhile, teach colors. "This color is called red. Red is pretty. Red and yellow makes orange. No, orange doesn't go in Sally's hair." If you get that far, I'd call it a success.

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Sterling
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What you're describing sounds great, but perhaps your students are a little too young. Though I think you could possibly do interesting things along the lines of "This is a photograph of a tree. This is how artists from different times have envisioned trees... (then go through different art styles.)

I've often been told that very young children prefer fewer choices, sorting, and things they can express as being this-or-that. They might want you to tell *them* what a self-portrait is, more than they want to discuss what it is. But if you show them a series of pictures and ask them which ones they think are portraits, that might be interesting. Or if you can find short (fiction) books with illustrations related to different art forms, that might inspire their later projects.

(Although I confess some of this may be my thinking how I would teach such a class, and I know I sometimes get really annoyed when people seem to be criticizing my idea just because their style is different than mine. If any of what I'm saying sounds less than useful or constructive, I apologize.)

I think my daughter (3) would find the discussion interesting for a few minutes, and then want to paint or play with the other kids.

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ketchupqueen
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quote:
They might want you to tell *them* what a self-portrait is, more than they want to discuss what it is. But if you show them a series of pictures and ask them which ones they think are portraits, that might be interesting. Or if you can find short (fiction) books with illustrations related to different art forms, that might inspire their later projects.

Actually, this is pretty much what I was envisioning. [Smile] By "discuss self-portraits", I really mean, "This is a self-portrait. A self-portrait is a picture that you draw of yourself. Have you ever drawn a picture of yourself?" And a story about a girl who draws a picture of herself, followed by two minutes of showing them pictures of famous self-portraits. [Smile] I have an almost-three-year old who, while rather advanced intellectually, probably has about a typical preschooler attention span and interests. So I am thinking of gearing everything toward things she would like and figuring that will be about the level it will be at. [Smile]
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ketchupqueen
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(Also, from what I've been told, the preschool classes usually skew more toward five-year-olds than three-year-olds.)
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ketchupqueen
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Also, I subscribe to the "don't talk down to kids" theory-- that you expose them to things they may not fully understand at the time, and it is more beneficial than gearing everything to their exact level. By exposing them to more advanced concepts now, I hope to inspire a life-long love of learning, art, and music in my kids, as my parents did in me. [Smile]
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pooka
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As a parent, I would be interested in a class where my child gets to try different media like fingerpainting, clay, and watercolor. Possibly all three every week. I'd want my child to develop fine motor coordination and cooperative clean-up, and social skills. At the end of the class, maybe each child can present their work. If there is a persistent problem with non-constructive criticism, we might have to restrict feedback to applause.

Since I know you're LDS, I can point you to the Primary class manuals. Each one begins with a segment on what children at a given age can be expected to absorb in a weekly class.

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ketchupqueen
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quote:
I would be interested in a class where my child gets to try different media like fingerpainting, clay, and watercolor.
On it. We'll be using all different kinds of media, and the children will have some choice some weeks as to what they want to do.

quote:
I'd want my child to develop fine motor coordination and cooperative clean-up, and social skills.
Also covered. Presenting their work will not be part of the class, but the children will be encouraged to cooperate and observe each other, and the last five minutes of class will be devoted to cooperative clean-up. Circle time will incorporate listening, sharing, turn-taking, opinion-expressing, and manners.

I'm already familiar with the Primary manuals, but they are a good resource, thank you. [Smile]

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pooka
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quote:
Also, I subscribe to the "don't talk down to kids" theory
Really? I know you think you do, but your children would never learn language if this was the case. At least, that is what they insist in linguistics classes. Maybe it's time to bump the secret fraternal order of linguists thread.
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TomDavidson
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KQ, this sounds pretty much like something that'd be ideal for Sophie. She's a bit advanced for her age -- almost three now -- but actually seems to enjoy art projects more when she's got some context. You'd need to be careful not to lose your audience, but giving them a framework within which they can do their project seems like a good way to connect them to the bigger picture.
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Christine
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I've got mixed feelings about what you're trying to do and more importantly, how you're deciding to implement it. Keep in mind that my only son is 15 months, so I'm not extremely experienced with the age group, but it does seem to me (from the experience I have had with other people's kids and from developmental psychology) that you're expecting an awful lot from even the most advanced preschoolers.

I'm not sure how you define "talking down to kids." I might agree with you about that, depending upon what you mean. I certainly think people can go over the top with baby voices and assuming kids are adorable idiots. On the other hand, they come out knowing nothing at all and most of adult language is tiered -- concept upon concept upon concept. I've noticed this a lot since having my son. I might point to an object and say "pillow" but what do I mean? Is it the softness, the squareness, the greenness? As kids get older and start figuring out which words are nouns, verbs, and adjectives they then run into metaphors and figures of speech.

The point of saying all of this is that with art as with all other subjects, you have to start from the beginning. Many of these kids won't even know their colors, let alone how we can use colors to show our feelings.

And this is very important, I think: Kids at this age learn from experiencing and mimicking much more than from discussing. In particular, asking open-ended and rhetorical questions is not something that I would think is appropriate for this age group. That's not to say that you can't ask questions, but if you do, I think you need to know the answer already and be able to guide them towards it.

All kids are different. You may find the exceptional child who can handle some of these concepts but I think you are going to find that most of the children might not understand. Often, when children this age don't understand they can shut down and they will stop listening to everything else you have to say. For that reason, I would actually encourage you to flip your craft and your discussion -- do a simple craft and then talk about it and give it context. That way, the kids are feeling good and proud of their accomplishments when you start creating the context for them. Plus, that way, you're building more from the ground up rather than from the heavens down.

Here are some additional thoughts on some of your lessons:

quote:

Self-portraits

Part one: What is art? Why do people make art? Talk about what a self-portrait is. Show pictures of famous self-portraits. Discuss why many artists have done self-portraits, and what a self-portrait can be.

Part two: paper-plate self-portraits. Use yarn, fabric, paint, etc. on paper plates to create self-portraits.

The question "What is art?" is one that even adults discuss and debate. Additionally, "Why do people make art?" could fill several college-level sociology classes. That's not to say that you can't start challenging a preschooler to think about this, but I'm wondering if you have a simple, concise answer to this yourself? I would definitely have one. At this level, I feel it is unfair to ask open-ended or rhetorical questions.

quote:

Animals (concept: sculpture)

Part one: talk about animals. Look at pictures or read a short book about different animals. What is your favorite animal? Where do animals live? Have some small animal sculptures out to look at and touch, look at pictures of animal sculptures. Talk about what is same/different about each. Talk about sculpture: what is sculpture? Describe/demonstrate basic techniques for clay sculpture.

Part two: play-clay animals. (Of course, if they'd rather make something else they'd be free to.)


This seems to me to be your most age-appropriate lesson. [Smile]

I also like the Textile lesson.

quote:

Art and Feelings

Part one: Talk about feelings. Talk about how art allows us to express our feelings and how we feel about things around us. What are some things we could show our feelings about through art? How do we respond to the world around us through art?

Part two: Play music, and dance, responding to the music and how it makes you feel. This is one way to respond to music.

Part three: Draw, paint, sculpt, or otherwise portray how you feel as different music is played. Make one picture/sculpture or many.

This, I think, is the most difficult concept. At the same time, I think it is a natural form of emotional expression -- I just think taking it to the next step and getting a child to understand how emotion and art are related...I guess if I were you, I would try to make this as simple as possible. I remember the art lesson in elementary school where the teacher played music and asked us to draw, but I think I was in 4th grade, and that's hugely different from 3 years old! I would probably ask very simple, very specific questions about specific feelings that they can understand. "Are you ever happy?" "What makes you happy?" That sort of ting.

#############

I hope I'm not being discouraging or even completely missing the point of what you're trying to do here. I just think you need to be careful. Talking down to children is bad, but so is talking over their heads. In the end, art is a very abstract concept and abstraction is something that children don't typically understand until almost junior high school.

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Launchywiggin
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I know I would have loved your curriculum, but I was an advanced student, too. I loved the learning and talking part and hated application. (and this is actually still the case in college)

I love that you're not going to talk down to them. Kids have so much respect for you if you talk to them like adults.

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Liz B
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Eh. Little kids seem to have a lot to say in response to almost any question you ask them. I think the whole program sounds great, as long as you're not expecting the kids to come up with any one particular answer so you can make a transition to your next part.

I disagree with Christine..."art" may be abstract but art products are very concrete. Kids are quite able to answer questions like "what are you drawing? Why are you drawing it?" "Do you like this picture? What do you like about it?" "What do you think about this lady's dress? Why do you think she's wearing those colors?" They may not come up with "maybe white is her culture's symbol for purity," but they'll probably come up with something.

You'll get frustrated if you want kids to answer "art is my method of self-expression." You'll have fun if you want kids to talk, share stories, then do a project. Some of them will see connection, others won't. They'll all enjoy telling you things. [Smile]

So ask the questions because you want to hear what the kids have to say, not because you want the kids to say something in particular, and this won't be above their level at all. From everything you've posted so far, it sounds like you already know this.

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ketchupqueen
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quote:
That's not to say that you can't start challenging a preschooler to think about this, but I'm wondering if you have a simple, concise answer to this yourself? I would definitely have one. At this level, I feel it is unfair to ask open-ended or rhetorical questions.

I agree. And I actually posted my lesson plans-- meaning the questions I ask in them are not necessarily going to be asked in the class, but rather the concept will be introduced.

Although:

quote:
So ask the questions because you want to hear what the kids have to say, not because you want the kids to say something in particular, and this won't be above their level at all.
I completely believe in this. I learn a lot more by asking a question I think I know the answer to (or even think I know a answer to) of my toddler instead of telling her about something.

The not talking down to kids thing: I use words that are already in their vocabulary, for sure, but I am not afraid to introduce a new word now and then or to discuss things that they won't understand until they are much older; I think letting them see how adults think about things is as important as listening to what they have to think and say about things. [Smile]

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Dragon
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It sounds great to me (and other people have already covered any age-appropriate comments I might have had) but my one suggestion is to over-estimate the actual art time as well as the clean up time. I worked with this age group as a camp councelor two summers ago and when we had craft time this was always the problem. There would be a few kids that would complete the project in the time we had alotted, which was great, but there were also always two or three who were barely started when the others were beginning to get restless. Maybe have some picture books or books of art (or even children's stories about artists if you can find them) that the kids would like to look through if they finish their projects before the others.

Good luck!

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Shan
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What fun!

My best suggestions would include:

1. Deciding about whether you are going for teaching cookie-cutter art for parents to proudly display OR you are going to offer a variety of mediums and encourage children to explore what they can do amd make in any way that makes sense to them (without harming themselves or others) of that medium.

2. At this age, I would definitely avoid the discussion of "why" and "how" we make art. Instead, have a theme for each class . . . i.e., animals or pets, myself, colors, shapes, favorite foods, etc., that you can spend a bit of time in circle time with appropriate books or sharing time, and then turn 'em loose on the materials and see where their primed and ready brains take them.

And absolutely! Remember to factor in your set-up and clean-up time.

Have fun!

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ketchupqueen
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No cookie cutter art here. I don't believe in it. [Smile]

And I think the how and why are important to mention, at least in passing. But thanks for your input. [Smile]

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Uprooted
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I don't have kids, so take this w/ the appropriate grain of salt, but I have been around that age group a lot, and I think it sounds like a great concept. The only one I wonder about is the American Primitive one . . . can they really distinguish styles at those ages?
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Teshi
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I teach a music camp for children aged 3 upwards. I am generalizing from my experience.

quote:
No cookie cutter art here. I don't believe in it.
Expect much of your class to only know how to copy. When I teach this age group, I find some children are very able to think and create their own. Others want to follow a pattern or need extensive suggestions. Remember that cookie cutter art is the standard. You may want to allow for both, while encouraging individuality.

quote:
If you want to be worthwhile, teach colors. "This color is called red. Red is pretty. Red and yellow makes orange. No, orange doesn't go in Sally's hair." If you get that far, I'd call it a success.
This is too simplistic for five year olds. Children of this age will know their colours. The orange thing can easily be included as part of general chit-chat as you explain the art. However, I note that you don't actually have anything about colour, which perhaps could become something. Also, you do not have geometric shapes anywhere, which is an easily grasped concept and has plenty of available examples.

quote:
American Primitive Art

Part one: talk about, show pictures of American Primitive art. Talk about the appeal of American Primitive. Why do people like these pictures? Discuss simple shapes and subjects. Talk about portraying what you know and preserving good memories.

IMO, I think you will have children bouncing off the walls and a lot of blank silences in this one. Children need to relate things to themselves (so "have you ever drawn a picture of yourself?" is good "what do people like this kind of picture" is beyond them.). Three and four year olds are focused on themselves and do not generally project far beyond that.

quote:
Part three: Draw, paint, sculpt, or otherwise portray how you feel as different music is played. Make one picture/sculpture or many.
Children of this age do not easily do this. Some may be able to, but many will have no idea what you want them to do.

quote:
Part three: wood scrap art, building “cities” by gluing wood scraps to boards.
The slow drying properties of glue, it's get-everywhere-ness, it's sticks-to-your-fingersness and the bland colour make this kind of craft, although interesting to adults, boring to children. You can use cardboard, egg cartons, plastic yogurt tubs and other easily three dimensional things, to a similar effect. However, the architecture might be lost on the children. IMO, a house is a house is a house to a three year old.

You could also try lego.

Eight children is a small group, but even in a small class, some children are going to zip through the task you set them and others are going to want to be slow, ponderous or just keep going. Make sure you have things for the fast people to do, or you will find yourself controlling bored children. Dragon already said this, but it's very important!

Playing music in the background as a matter of course often helps to keep bored or antsy children focused on their work- they will work longer. Talking to them about their work also helps. Children who do not know what to do, however, will quickly seize on your suggestion.

If we paint, I always like to make sure that children help clear up. Also, washing brushes is fun because of the pretty colours you can make the water. However! This can get messy.

Kids love to talk about themselves, as I said before. Ask them what in their lives relates to what you are showing them. For instance, if you're learning about animals, ask them if they have pets at home.

However, that isn't to say that you can't go above and beyond their level for brief moments. You'll see in their eyes when it's time to stop [Big Grin] .

One last note: for the self portrait, although you may not want to go this way because it is, quite literally, cookie cutter art [Wink] . One thing that children love is being drawn around. I get rolls of newsprint paper and they lie down one by one and I draw around them. Then they may decorate themselves how they wish- as themselves, as their heroes, as monsters- whatever.

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ketchupqueen
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Teshi, with all due respect, um, I got the wood scrap art project from my preschool class-- we did it and I loved it. This is a class that they've had before (although not quite in this form-- they were just kind of turned loose on play clay and paints most weeks), and the teacher that previously taught it said she had no problem with attention span, self-direction, or creativity in any of the classes.
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ketchupqueen
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(Also, I HAVE taught art projects, in a different setting, to this age group before, and I know what they're capable of. I think people far underestimate the preschool set.)
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Samprimary
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"American Primitive?"

Hm. I guess I've been hanging around the amerind crowd enough to have that sound warning bells in my head. 'danger! danger! someone will find this offensive!'

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Christine
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quote:
I disagree with Christine..."art" may be abstract but art products are very concrete. Kids are quite able to answer questions like "what are you drawing? Why are you drawing it?" "Do you like this picture? What do you like about it?" "What do you think about this lady's dress? Why do you think she's wearing those colors?" They may not come up with "maybe white is her culture's symbol for purity," but they'll probably come up with something.

Little kids are very eager to answer a lot of questions, but I would not go so far as to say they are eager to answer any question you ask. "What are you drawing?" and "Do you like this picture?" work well but "Why are you drawing it?" will only work for a few students in this age. Why's are harder. "Why is she wearing these colors?" is another one that isn't likely to get a good answer. You may get "Because she likes that color." but I can't think of anything else a 3-5-year-old would say in response to such a question. And if that's ok, then go ahead and ask.

#########

I thought the actual projects sounded fine, by the way. Well, I'm not so sure about the American Primitive art and the emotional art may need to be more fine-tuned, at least for students who are struggling. (In other words, some may need to be given a piece of paper and a crayon and told to draw instead of being given three or four types of projects and told to use whichever one they feel like using.)

I'm finding the question of over or underestimating preschoolers to be an interesting side topic in this discussion. I'm usually guilty of overestimating children in practice, which I tend to think is a better way to go...you just have to be willing to make modifications when things aren't working the way you expected. Thinking on your feet is an invaluable skill for teaching -- especially with young kids. If the discussion isn't going well or some (or all) of the kids are struggling with a craft, you may need to make modifications. It may even help if you have considered some alternatives in advance.

It has been my experience that kids are so vastly different that it is impossible not to over or underestimate. The closest you can get to correct estimation is an average, and in that case you will be overestimating half the class and underestimating the other half. I think you need to be prepared for this contingency as well.

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ClaudiaTherese
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Christine has written my thoughts out nicely in both her long posts. (Thanks! Now, about this meeting today with my boss ... [Wink] )

It does sound like a fun time, especially if it's done by you, ketchupqueen. I think you'll adapt as you go if needed, and I hope these students will have more time with you as a teacher later, as well.

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Jim-Me
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Just for my (very paltry compared to the great feedback you are getting here) $.02--

I think it's ambitious for the age group, but not overly so, if you are up to handling the variety of levels of understanding you will see (some, maybe even most, will respond, but some aren't going to get it). I think it's a great plan to do a story in a circle followed by short projects. I think I would love for my day care kids to get this in day care, but probably would *not* sign them up for it outside of that, largely because of the hassle of getting them to and from the class mixed inwith the rest of my schedule.

Good luck!

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Will B
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What Christine said, about questions regarding "why."

At that age I think you want them to have fun (which I think they will), but not yet to analyze or reflect.

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ctm
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kq, it sounds similar to what my kids' art teacher does with her younger classes and she's had good success with it. As long as you are flexible about things and have back-ups in case a specific idea doesn't work, I think you'll be fine.

It's entirely possible and even likely some parents won't care for your approach, but that would be true for any approach. You can't please everyone, especially when it comes to art classes.

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Primal Curve
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Honestly, I'd probably roll my eyes and not enroll my daughter. I'd find her something that involves less touchy-feely artsiness.

But you're not exactly trying to appeal to my specific demographic of cynical parentage.

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TomDavidson
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PC prefers his daughter's art projects to be hard and spiky and, at the end, produce something of lasting value. Like explosives. [Wink]
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ketchupqueen
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
"American Primitive?"

Hm. I guess I've been hanging around the amerind crowd enough to have that sound warning bells in my head. 'danger! danger! someone will find this offensive!'

Okay, so I watch too much Antiques Roadshow. [Wink]
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PrometheusBound
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I agree that the single most important thing to do is to talk down to kids. Most preschoolers may not realize they are being talked down to, but some will. And almost all elementary schoolers were.

Of course, I think things have changed. I recall going to preschool when I was four (before that it had been day care) and again when I was five (I may be the only person who ever flunked preschool). Most kids seemed to do one year of preschool and then kindergarten (which I skipped) and then start grade school.

There now seems to be a trend to start kids in "school" much earlier (an impressive feat given how little time there is before the age of four), but I can't seem to dell the difference between many of these schools and day cares. One can hardly expect a two-year old to learn much except in the way that infants pick up language and mimic adult behaviour.

I find it ironic that young children generaly don't "get" abstract art, given that most of what they produce is decidedly abstract.
On the other hand, they understand surrealism perfectly, being uninhibited by adult notions of reality. What thoughts I remember from that age were decidedly surreal.

You might begin with Antoine de Saint-Exupéry's brilliant bit from the The Little Prince about the hat which is actualy a boa constrictor.

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Shan
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I dunno -- I work in the field of pre-K, have for years . . . the most true statement about that age group is that they are all in very different places socially, emotionally, physically, cognitively . . . in fact, you probably won't see this range again until early adolesence. [Smile]

I disagree that this age-group needs "cookie-cutter" art. In monitoring preschool classrooms, what I've found are that some teachers and parents need the children to do cookie-cutter art. Whether that is for purposes of classroom management, outcomes evaluation, etc. Most children seem to just want to explore.

Now granted, there's a time and a place for learning to follow a set pattern and instructions, but at this age if we get through following two-three sequential instructions, we're at a big plus.

I think art works best (at this age) when it's linked to the realities children experience in their daily lives, and there are lots of options and ways of doing just that!

That being said, it's just my humble opinion. [Smile]

You go, kq! Let us know how it goes -- I'd take the class . . . and I wish I had a child to take it with . . . which might be a consideration . . . parent-child art with some good, solid art history info for the parents (and fun places to take trips to in the community to learn more, with or without children) and then a safe place where both parent and child are encouraged to explore the medium . . .

*wanders off musing*

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Teshi
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quote:
Teshi, with all due respect, um, I got the wood scrap art project from my preschool class-- we did it and I loved it. This is a class that they've had before (although not quite in this form-- they were just kind of turned loose on play clay and paints most weeks), and the teacher that previously taught it said she had no problem with attention span, self-direction, or creativity in any of the classes.
In that case, awesome. [Smile] I think that I was focusing way too strongly on the negative (see below also). I've certainly been very impressed by much of what children can do. None of what I said was particularly false, just ignoring the great memories all the children who did spend a long time and produce something wonderful.

Side question: How do you prevent the glue stickage problem I was concerned about. Things I've done concerned solely with glue (although nothing on the scale of wood!) have not been so successful.

quote:
(Also, I HAVE taught art projects, in a different setting, to this age group before, and I know what they're capable of. I think people far underestimate the preschool set.)
yeah, I'm sorry. I wrote the post late at night and when I woke up this morning one of my first thoughts was "What was I saying?! KQ has two children!"

I didn't intend to be so obnoxious (or negative). Thanks for being so polite and I apologise!

Also, I agree that children in general are underestimated. I give the impression I do not think this way; I do. However, I've always found a huge range of children- not because the children themselves are unintelligent but merely because sometimes they've never done such-and-such before. Thinking about it, it's actually older when differences in creative ability really start to manifest themselves.

Although I leant incredibly heavily on the negative, I didn't make anything I said up. Here's why I'm so jaded:

I've had some really active children for whom art is as much a chore as going outside for others is, and that is who I am thinking of. I find especially these children splash through their work (although they may produce excellent pieces- an Elvis bird, for example from a five year old- as well as less inspiring ones [Wink] ) I work in a rather small environment on a limited budget for long hours (the whole day in most cases) and things can get crazy. I'd love to do grand scale things- there was this one involving thrown paint and a sheet-, but I work underneath a business building in a couple of rooms that contain pianos and carpets- a deadly combination. Outside, getting chalk on the walls is a problematic thing, let alone paint.

Sigh.

I love your idea of a city and although I cannot do wood, I think I will take up your idea to attempt a collaborative construction of this type. We do pinatas but they (obviously) get destroyed.

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Teshi
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And yes, I would send my hypothetical preschooler to your class.

Although the aboriginal art might make me make this face: O.o.

[Smile]

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ketchupqueen
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I didn't say aboriginal. I said primitive-- as in simple folk art (carved and painted furniture, Grandma Moses, etc.) [Smile]

And I'm sorry I snarked back.

quote:
I've had some really active children for whom art is as much a chore as going outside for others is, and that is who I am thinking of. I find especially these children splash through their work (although they may produce excellent pieces- an Elvis bird, for example from a five year old- as well as less inspiring ones )
First, I would point out that most parents who enroll their kids in these classes do so because it is something their kids would enjoy, and they know it-- so those kids are more likely to be enrolled in the dance or tumbling classes than the art class. [Smile] Secondly, I really want the kids to do what they want with the projects-- I will provide an example, which they can copy if they want, or they can be as abstract as they like, and I'm sure it will ALL be beautiful. I really don't care if all the information goes over their heads-- although I bet at least a few will pick something up-- because I think just the experience of hearing someone talk about art, especially in things they are apt to see around them, and why it is art and why art is important is a really important experience for young kids. It sets a precedent, if you will, that talking about and thinking about and looking at art is an important part of life, just as talking about the music we listen to with my children teaches them how important music is and that it's not JUST something going on in the background, but part of what makes life good.

quote:
Side question: How do you prevent the glue stickage problem I was concerned about. Things I've done concerned solely with glue (although nothing on the scale of wood!) have not been so successful.

Step one: put the kids in smocks. (Old mens' short-sleeved shirts work wonderfully.) Make sure girls' hair is pulled away from their faces. Step two: use all-purpose, washable glue (of course) on a dedicated craft table (or else cover the table with a few layers of taped-down newspaper.) Drop cloth on the ground (plastic tablecloth from the $1 store works very well.) Step three: Use mess-free, disposable, shallow, SMALL containers for the glue (Styrofoam *wince* plates are good and the plastic lids from those water bottles that are delivered to offices and homes for water dispensers are even better.) Use wooden popsicle sticks for applicators. Step four: teach the kids how to use them properly, supervise as closely as possible, and make it clear that glue usage is a privilege which WILL be revoked if glue is intentionally misused. Step five: don't care if it gets all over the projects (after all, it dries clear), and throw away/recycle all those nice disposable surface coverings when you're through. [Big Grin]

If you're interested in the scrap wood sculpture idea, you should check out the KinderArt page on scrap wood sculpture. They include a recipe for tempera wood stain, in case plain ol' wood is too bland for you (although I intend to get my wood scraps from a furniture shop; they tend to be different colors and textures and come in very interesting shapes.) My dad still has the "city" I made from scrap wood when I was four. [Big Grin]

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ketchupqueen
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quote:
when I woke up this morning one of my first thoughts was "What was I saying?! KQ has two children!"

(Oh, and I meant to add, while I do art projects with Emma at home, I actually have done art with groups of kids before, as well. I taught Vacation Bible School as a teenager, and created and taught craft projects when I was doing daycare, have subbed in preschools, and have also taught Primary. [Smile] )
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