posted
I found this film on you-tube and then looked it up on Google. The general consensus is that in some ways it is alarmist and propaganda but the points it makes are conceivable realities and real issues. Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3uvzcY2XugPosts: 130 | Registered: Jan 2007
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I own the movie. It is interesting. When I first heard about Peak Oil I was fascinated. I devoured everything I could about the subject. I even planned a web site. I wrote all of the material. I was going to hire Fugu13 to design it for me--he had a very reasonable rate.
After I amassed all my research and organized it, it occurred to me that I didn't buy into the Peak Oil crises. That realization squashed any desire to continue along that track of study. Sorry Fugu13!
My personal conclusions about Peak Oil: It makes more sense to me that oil comes from an abiotic source and is slowly replenishing then that oil is all derived from dead dinosaurs and plants.
There may come a peak due to refinery limitations. We may have a very rough ride as China and India become more industrialized, but I believe we will get the technology to get deep deep oil reserves. We also have shale. I also have faith in free markets developing the ability to utilize alternative energy on a much grander scale.
Any time you want a good hoot, just pick up a 10-20 year old Time Magazine and read their world predictions. Predictions are often off.
I read Colin Campbell's site for ASPO religiously. He kept changing his data and predictions. He has a history of that. When you have an agenda it is very tempting to cherry pick data and ignore research that contradicts what you are basing your reputation on.
The End of Suburbia was an interesting movie, but one of the experts seemed to have orgasms each time he contemplated the destruction of society. It got annoying. I loved all of the historical parts of the movie and can recommend it based on the history lessons alone. The rest of the movie is too blah for me.
Instead of wasting time (unless you only want the history lessons) on such a politically motivated scare movie about Peak Oil and how suburbs are going to be death traps, I HIGHLY recommend reading Suburban Nation: The Rise of Sprawl and the Decline the American Dream . That book has totally changed how I look at sprawl and it shows that solutions work and can be implemented.
By the way, if you start a thread, it is generally good form to express your opinions in the introductory post like you did with the democratic schools thread.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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There are plenty of alternative fuels that will allow us to continue the use of our beloved automobiles and allow us to live in our nice suburban homes. As the oil thing gets more expensive, these alternatives will come to light and become popular. It's already happening. Those in charge won't let the economy or our consumer way of life fail, they're just getting the most out of us before it switches to other fuels.
Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jan 2001
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Sometimes, I think living in a crazy post-apocalyptic Mad Max kind of would would be fun. I'm gonna get some sweet leather clothes, wild hair, and a gyrocopter!
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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I'll see if I can get that book from the library.
The real reason that a lot of the fear mongering- I recognized it- still scared me is that I'm only 15 and so that means that any energy crisis to come will probably be a crisis for my generation.
Still, it seems like we should be worrying more about switching fuels and finding new, renewable resources for fuels now, rather than waitin until there's a real problem with a lack of oil.
The whole movies is a bit apocalyptic though but if that's what it takes to wake people up that oil won't last forever...
Posts: 130 | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lem: Instead of wasting time (unless you only want the history lessons) on such a politically motivated scare movie about Peak Oil and how suburbs are going to be death traps, I HIGHLY recommend reading Suburban Nation: The Rise of Sprawl and the Decline the American Dream . That book has totally changed how I look at sprawl and it shows that solutions work and can be implemented.
I'll second this recommendation. This book was one I read in preparation for my thesis project a few years ago, and I still remember some of the better bits. The Death and Life of Great American Cities by Jane Jacobs is another great book in the same line of thought, but a perspective from several decades ago. It's also the first "also bought" link on the Amazon page above. Good to see Amazon users recognize that connection on occasion.
Posts: 1368 | Registered: Sep 2002
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I read Suburban Nation today and liked it a lot. As a 15 year old living in the epitome of a suub I am completely ependant on my parents for transportation and agree that being able to walk or bike places would be a blessing. Since I live in colorado, I found out about Stapleton, looks pretty cool. I will have to ask my parents to drive me there to look around. I also remembered that my aunt is an urban planner in Shaker Heights, Ohio. when we've visited there we've stayed with our relatives there who live in the kind of area that Suburban nation talks about. I liked it there, for example, my realtives and I would walk to get gelatto or go and play at the neighbors and walk to the park. It wasn't quite as self contained as Suburban Nation would suggest, but it had a real community. On my block of suburbia, complete w/ cul-de-sacs there really isn't a community and we have to drive everywhere, so I think that Suburban Nation makes really good points.
I also realize what a scare movie End of Suburbia was, but at least it gets your attention. I don't believe in such an apocalyptic situation as it suggests, but I do think that suburbia will suffer because I do think that oil will run out and sooner rather than later. I think that more compact living in more local and walkable communities would be good for people and the environment. Even if a renewable replacement for oil was found, I think sububia should go.
Posts: 130 | Registered: Jan 2007
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We can make oil out of any organic waste including sewage and much of the trash that gets buried in landfills today. It costs more than pumping it out of the ground, but not that much more. The process is called Thermal Depolymerization.
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Any idea how things are going with the pilot thermal depolymerization plant in Carthage, MO? Last I heard the city was fighting them because of the smell, and that while they'd gotten the odor problem under control, but that the ultimate fate of the plant was uncertain.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Last I heard they were eeking out a profit, but it's been a while. They have to buy their turkey guts which really cuts into the bottom line.
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
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I would love to see them succeed; I don't know when I've seen a technology that was actually ready to go that had a bigger potential to change things.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Thermal Depolymerization sounds fascinating. I'm suprised I hadn't heard of it before. The info on wikipedia talked mostly about the usage of turkey offal. I'm very curious about the sewage use. What is currently done with the non-water material after sewage treatment?
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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The turkey offal just may remain a problem. I talked to the largest turkey producer here in the West, a couple of years ago. They were using a bio-remediation system, similar to the one that we use to process explosives contaminated earth. By using the bedding material from the coops, and the discharge from the processing plants they were producing a "landscaping medeum" or potting soil that was drawing a premeum price from the landscapers in Vegas. They were making more from the bioremediated waste than they were from the turkeys.
Posts: 1167 | Registered: Oct 2005
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I'm kinda torn about city life vs suburban life. I think I'd like to live in a city where you can walk or bike or use public trans to get places. But I really like living in a suburban area away from people. If I had my choice, I'd live on a farm or in the woods or a mountain.
Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote: I don't believe in such an apocalyptic situation as it suggests, but I do think that suburbia will suffer because I do think that oil will run out and sooner rather than later.
It could be apocalyptic, but I don't think it will be because of peak oil. I think the issue will be in refining capacity and the sudden increase in oil consumption by emerging markets/countries.
That will but a huge stress on available oil for America, and suburbia will certainly be affected. Between wars, limited resources, terrorists, the environment, et cetera, et cetera, I worry my kid (soon to be kids) will face very different challenges then I do/did.
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